*thomas*

I know a little bit about HO. My grandfather used to have a bunch of JOUEF stuff from the '60s and '70s. They were cheap trains compared to Marklin, but more expensive compared to LIMA for instance. I also have a few locomotives that I kept, just for nostalgia and frequent some model train (not only HO) specific forums and visit one or two small exhibitions a year. There are purists that stick to one brand, but many don't and don't frown upon using a 'mixed' bag. Furthermore, you could build dioramas from 'ready-made' sets, but could also use cardboard and paint if you'd like. That's what annoys me about LEGO, you're stuck with what they make and if you want to stay 'true' to bricks, you get a load of **** from 'purists' who only use LEGO.

There are 'non-LEGO' alternatives, but it's up to you if you want to go that route and/or support that businessmodel.

I know this is supposed to be LEGOs point of view as well, but I also think that they only sell complete train sets because they make more money in one sale. Individual rolling stock, locomotives, track, track side structures would sell, but parents/buyers would not be obliged to spend 150€/USD in one go. Instead, they could spend 40 on two pieces of rolling stock, 30 on a locomotive and 20 on some track and afterwards decide to NOT add a motor or buy any more trains because their kid has lost interest. But, it could also be that over the course of a few years they buy some more items and spend way over what a single train costs. The problem: this is a gamble for LEGO. If trains wouldn't be selling well, they wouldn't produce them AT ALL. This is how I see things. In the early 2000s they indeed had the idea to launch two lines: one aimed at kids with RC trainsets and one with 9V aimed at AFOLS. If the internet would've been a bigger thing back than or if there would have been more stores offering the santa fe, BNSF etc, I'm almost certain they would've stuck with the idea. But I for instance was 12 at that time and my parents bought LEGO sets at the local toy shop. I would've adored owning the santa fe etc and if available at a 'normal' shop, I would've gotten it.

I have not read all the replies, so sorry if I am just repeating what has already been said, but I don't buy the whole 'marketing' 'LEGO is toy FOR KIDS' ' the moulds are broken' nonsense anymore. They just don't want to make trains, end of story. So - and I'd never tought I'd do this - I just buy parts (and models) from other sources. Why would I spend many euros on a silly train window when the exact same window is up from grabs from another source? Why would I buy a toy train when I can buy a much better looking train for less money? In order to support LEGO? Why, they don't support us do they. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind LEGO and can truely appreciate some sets (not only trains), but you can clearly see they just want to make money (like any company), but I don't work that way. I want value for money, something which LEGO doesn't offer anymore.

I don't want to troll this thread, but just my toughts on the 12v system. I grew up as a kid in the 90s, a time when the 9v system was mainstream but 12v was cheap to buy second-hand (30€ for 7750, 50€ for 7740 are just a few examples). I persisted with the 12v system until my darkages 15 years ago, but have since sold all my 12v track and the majority of the motors and have switched to 9v and PF. The brittle rails drove me nuts and the track has a very narrow geometry. So, my advice, put the tracks and motors in storage and convert the trains to PF (or 9V) and enjoy them at least as much.

Very interesting thread. Thanks for sharing all the info.

Why? If this was the solution, LEGO should stop producing sets aimed at AFOL's and only sell bricks...

We all know LEGO will not do this... And that is what bugs me. They give us a great set, but it is what it is. A great set to LOOK at. If you have a huge collection of bricks and lots of time, you can moc...

We all know how this would end: someone buys three copies and sells 2 locomotives to keep the rolling stock. No, not exactly. When these locomotives were put in service, they were used for freight. 100 years ago, goods trains could consist out of multiple cars. A box car, flatbed and tanker wagon would be enough. Märklin has some sort of starter set: It's not only practice, it's time. I have so many other things on my mind and to do around the house that I just want to enjoy building something.

It's a forum, people give their opinion and if someone doesn't share that same opinion, they see it as if the other is complaining. It's not like everything LEGO makes is sprinkled with fairy dust and I have to agree 100% with the product they deliver... I'm one off those who is reluctant to buy this set even tought I love trains and ADORE swiss trains. Why? Because it's a locomotive, just a single locomotive. I doesn't fit with any of the other trains LEGO has made, nor can you use rolling stock from the city line, it would look silly. If LEGO thinks an asking price of 170 'whatever' for a city train is good, then sure they could've added some rolling stock to this one as well. Yes, we can MOC our own rolling stock, but I'm not a good MOC'er, nor do I want to buy rolling stock from third parties. What do I have to do with a single locomotive? Put it on my desk? Why? To gather dust? To look at? The problem is we never know what LEGO is up to. If they would - let's say - make one every other year (like with the cars) and give people something to collect, it would already be a whole different story... They have sold single locomotives in the past BUT in that same era they also sold rolling stock to add. They've done this in EVERY era in which trains were important to them and have stopped doing so right after the MOT (my own train) and Sanra Fe/BNSF era. Why? Because it didn't sell or because it didn't sell ENOUGH (it's a retorical question). You can't tell me that they would've done this for 40 years ('70s, '80s, '90s, '00s) if it didn't work out... (= make profit). The fact they don't add PU/PF and track is a good thing.

I know, but the lego one is based on the obb version.

4551 was based on the obb 1020

It's not that I'm not happy, I just don't understand their choice to stick to just a locomotive. The emerald night had a coach, the maersk had 2 pcs of rolling stock, the horizon express was a proper train, altough you had to buy 2 copies. But this is just a locomotive... TLG makes all the cool creator cars (mini, camper, F40...) so unless they do the same with trains, it's a weird choice from them.

Nice, yes, but silly. The CE6/8 was used for heavy freight. Hence, if they would have included three 2 axle goods wagons, it would've made sense...

Very cool for train fans, but why didn't they just make a whole train? I'm sure AFOL would spend 170 USD / € / GBP on this train if it included some rolling stock. Still, very pleased TLG is making this set.

Those friends sets - once again - look amazing. I understand they are aimed at girls, but I don't understand why LEGO doesn't make this theme more gender-neutral. IMHO, friends and city should be able to merge. The friends sets come with realistic vehicles, nice scenery, real-life buildings etc. City, well ...

Not the answer you're looking for, but can't you just use one motor?

But, the 1997 was way better. The main ship looks like an unfinished set (crane, mini sub)... I guess I'll just have to dig out my old divers sets :).

Dear TLG, which part about airPORT don't you get? It's about the port, not the plane. 30 years ago, they understood this: Loving this nice little deatil tough...

The problem I have with HA-bricks is that his models are stolen from others. The BR80 f.i.

Wow, this a quite an impressive little lay-out. I love the train station and warehouse build next to it (in front of the lego engine shed). What's funny: I was thinking of buying the shrimp shack and boat because I love how you could implement them to a regular lay-out. The only thing I have is that they feel more like something I would locate in some brakish river inlet, swamp-territory. Keep us posted !

Luckily, I love the divers-themed line-up and I as long as they keep sci-fi out of it, I can see the educational value of it too. I don't consider divers a theme as extreme (in city terms) as volcano or arctic, but I'm not sure if I would link it to the city theme.

LEGO has an ongoing trend for it's CITY theme. They recycle certain themes quite frequently (police, firemen ...), have some others that appear less often (trains, harbour, airport) and lastly, have had a few one-hit-'wonders' such as arctic, jungle etc. I generally don't dislike city sets, but I'd like it if LEGO would approach a few things in a different way: - a bit more focus on infrastructure (roads, buildings ...) and less on vehicules (I don't mind planes, but I don't get why an airport theme has only ONE small airport building). Let's be clear: this does not mean I do not like the vehicules they make. - there's nothing wrong with police and FD sets. I also understand these sell well with kids, but don't take it to the extreme. I like the different approach (forest, swamp), but it doesn't has to get all sci-fi. They should also include the coast-guard more often - speaking of sci-fi: arctic, jungle, volcano are all great themes and kids must have had tons of fun with them, but they don't belong in a city line-up. - they neglect (or have neglected) themes that can broaden the CITY's (and kids playing with these sets) horizon. FARM was a great theme, with great play-value had a lot more educational value compared to arctic and volcano. Same goes for harbour. I'd love to see them make a whole line like they did back in the '90s. This is from a 1991 catalogue: There are only a handful of sets, but they offer great structure and cool vehicles. Even when the town focussed restaurant and monorail are left out, this is amazing. Can't imagine this not selling well.

Have to agree. Something that looks more than the original from 1997 would be great. Funny, it's the only set from the first divers line-up I've never owned.

I'd rather have lego design something else. An extra boat, submarine, underwater-lab, land based research facility, small harbour/docks...