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Unvote: Maggie Magnolia (Calanon) Vote: Hazel Hazelnut (Goliath) I think Hazel's behavior, from the early stuff on Day 1 to the variety of wacked out responses has her as a slightly better candidate than Peter. I will say that I still think Maggie's scum, too. Even if the suggestion came extremely late to Barry to kill Maggie, why didn't Barry comment on the timing rather than just saying that it was too late to change his mind.

I thought I had sent a code in. Vicky, I'm a 52. As for a vote today, if Barry didn't want to kill Maggie according to Berty, and we all think Barry was scum, shouldn't that suggest something? Vote: Maggie Magnolia (Calanon)

Were you just looking to find things to accuse Adelaide of? I went back and looked and Adelaide was not at all close to hammering on three bandwagons. She's been a part of only two of them. On the third one, Day 2, she cast her vote for you. You would think you'd remember that Adelaide is the only person so far who's voted for you.

If the scum can janitor anyone, then they have to be told who the night kills are in order to choose their janitor target. I checked with both William and Berty and they said the claim came before the night action deadline. Berty's claim was specific enough to put it about 4 hours before. Depending on when Alder takes his rest or if he's aiming to get the janitor action at the deadline, it's possible he told the scum in advance once most night actions were in. To me... it's the simplest explanation right now.

Personally, I think it's kind of awesome that way. Back to Sammy's idea that Barry was the SK... I've gone around and around on this today, talking with various people, and I just don't see it. First, a clarification, though. Barry seems to only have contacted William and Berty. Bruce was informed indirectly through Berty. So... my conclusion now is that Barry was definitely scum. The final piece of the puzzle for me is Williams statement that Barry initially chose Clem as his target, and then changed it to Bobby and BOTH ended up dead. That all makes sense if Barry was scum and they can janitor anyone. Barry heard the night kills, knew he was going to die, decided to throw crazy role claims around to confuse people. The problem was with his targets. They both died, which suggests he knew they were both going to die. The other key to him not being the SK is... if he was the SK, then WTF? Why would he go on a bender like that? There's no logical reason for it. Even if you're Hazel and think crazy things about alignment reveals upon death that don't match the rules, there's no logical reason that he would've lost his mind like he did. So... assuming he's scum, what does that get us? Well, it gives a much stronger town read on Waldorf being an oak due to the way he brought up his suspicions yesterday. It means that at least one of William and Berty are oaks, too. He wouldn't have given his crazy role claim only to teammates. I have had strong suspicions on both of them, but so far, I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching either.

Sorry... after multiquoting so many people I misremembered your quote as being in response to Waldorf rather than Adelaide. Apologies for this. I said as much in the previous sentence. You made Barry out to appear like he was a major suspect at the end of the day. The reality is that Waldorf brought him up and voted for him. I felt like you were trying to make more out of that then there was.

I think we know that he was NOT an oak. Oaks don't go concocting crazy role claims in the middle of the night. This really shouldn't surprise anyone. I'm guessing he was one of the vanilla's since he'd want to lay low. With all due respect, Barry was not a major suspect yesterday and your paragraph here says as much. I agree with your conclusion but you're muddying the waters. There's something about this that makes me feel like you're trying to distance yourself from the janitoring activity. The great Sammy Sycamore isn't familiar with janitoring? Are you suggesting that Waldorf is scum with Simon? Right now, Barry looks most like a maple, and at the very least neutral. Waldorf was the first person to really accuse him yesterday. The red seems to indicate that you believe Alastair and Barry are both scum? Why so sure on Alastair? The stumps, perhaps? A few additional observations for William: First, why did you think vengeful was such an important role to share early on? What does that accomplish as an oak? Second, you're the only one that hasn't yet voted along with one of the primary lynch candidates, twice casting throw away votes at players who got no other votes and voting Bruce on Day 1. We don't know Alastair for sure, but it seems like you've been intentionally playing away from the other saplings.

While we're at it... how is is possible for a bomb to just go off? If Barry was really telling a partial truth, what could possibly have set him off? I don't believe for a second he spontaneously combusted. There was an extra kill last night so something doesn't seem right.

I'd like to hear Hazel's wacked out theory, too. It was Barry, not Bobby, right? Anyway... Barry's claim is almost as crazy as Simon's title. Can we get a little more detail about how Berty passed along the claim to Bruce? Did it come in the crazy format initially or was it elaborated upon over time?

Fixed.

I'll say that I had found Barry to be rather Oaky until the comment you made. Quite a bit more Oaky than you, to be honest, as I felt like you had been rather middle of the road with few accusations of note. I would say that it's highly likely that at least one of the people who've been pushing the codes is a maple and Barry has certainly been in the middle of it. If we're to pick one, I'm more inclined to think it's Jack since Jack has been more middle of the road (a bit like you were) with fewer concrete accusations. However, if Larry turns up maple then I agree Barry shoots up the list of next suspects. I've been discussing the situation with Simon for some time as he's attested. I don't trust the claim. I don't think I'll trust it completely until either you and/or all the maples are gone. The reason I brought it up publicly again was the new statement that you wanted to know the Bomb's identity. I hadn't heard that till today and I don't see why a miller needs a friend so badly, particularly after you had made a friend in Simon. Simon can talk anyone's ear off!

I really thought the smoking gun on Catarina was when she finally seemed to indicate that she knew how lynches would end up and unfortunately, there isn't any smoking gun among the candidates today that seem to me as strong as that. It's all behavior. I think the case is slightly stronger for Larry so I'll add my vote to the leader and switch to the other if need be: Vote: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken) I also think some more discussion around our Miller claim is appropriate. I don't trust it one bit. I went to the effort to try to understand how things came about and it all struck me as odd. Today, I hear that Berty went fishing for the identity of the Bomb claim: This aspect was new to me and it doesn't sit with the miller claim. Berty had already decided that Simon was worth trusting enough to share his miller role with. The miller is not an active role and therefore has no need to know who the bomb is. The only reason a miller could care about a bomb is to share it with someone else. There isn't any sort of grand scheming that the miller needs to do that requires someone safe to talk to "without worry too much if they were scum or not". It's been pointed out before, but the way the miller claim went down is the least townie way to respond. It should either be claimed immediately or not until a false claim by scum is made in an effort to get out of investigation. You told me that Simon suggested you publicly claim at that point, but he didn't mention that when I asked him about it. Simon, is he lying about this? Lastly... there have been a lot of rather forceful claims of "Maple!" by certain individuals to others that aren't resulting in votes. I find that to be one of the more interesting themes of today so far.

I am still here! Poor Alastair is the only one who's not still here in some form or another. It really depends a bit on how you want to read it, doesn't it? It strikes me that it's one of those things that's prone to confirmation bias in the scope of what else has been said.

I'm sorry, but we still don't have enough information to know whether or not the lynch target is treated differently from night kills as a matter of course or because there was maple involvement. If we assume for a moment that the alignment was hidden because Alastair was janitored, then it's also safe to assume that we don't know how a lynch is handled when the lynchee is NOT janitored. You are basing your judgement on a single night of evidence. You are spending more effort convincing us that participating in the codes is pointless than it would take for you to send out a few codes and hope that maybe you're wrong and it will help. How is that oaky?

The only way you could know that you will not be with us in any form is if you are a maple and know for a fact whether or not Alastair was janitored. The general consensus has been that it is far more likely that Alastair was janitored than that all lynches end up unknown. With only one night of information to go on, I think we have to go with the most likely conclusion until we have more information. If you were an Oak, you would consider the possibility that you may be around tomorrow and prepare accordingly. The only thing lost if you're not a stump is your own time and effort. Vote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1)

I've received a few codes from some people and the first thing I've noticed is that there's no consistency to how people are sending them. Some folks are sending exclusively numbers, while some folks are sending other combinations of random characters. I think the whole thing is a lot of effort for a relatively low chance of being high reward, but if we're going to really make it work, I propose that we at least try to create a semblance of consistency. Can we just stick to numbers? The main thing I expect is that we'll be communicating our roles but we won't know how to get that information safely to the Oak block. I will vote after getting some rest. I have a few things I wish to review first and hopefully get responses back on some correspondence in the meantime.

Busy catching up... this came quite a bit earlier on... so I apogize for bumping an old thread, but this is blatantly false: The quote you referenced came in response to your suggestion that there were 2 maple kills last night. You're rearranging the order of events to suit your purpose. I'm commenting on your suggestion that both night kills were maple, and then you try to turn it around and suggest that I planted the thought in your head. I don't think so.

This is why I was concerned that there were certain limitations on what Lauren and Buck might contribute. Primarily because I'm completely unfamiliar with a situation in which all the night kills are interactive stumps and it seems to me, that the only way to create some semblance of order in such a world would be to balance it in some way... for example, having the loggers take the whole tree so that the lynch affiliation is not known. I don't really trust the situation right now because it looks too easy and a simple janitor doesn't seem like enough of a counterbalance.

Not grilling... trying to understand. At first I thought they would be limited in how they communicated with us based on the night description.

I agree... I think there are a few additional things they can do to help us out: 1. Let someone know their roles to suss out false claims 2. Let someone know how their tree stump status works... Elder Alder implied in his description of events that they may have more limitations on communicating than just what's been added to the rules... it would be really helpful to know if that's true or not so we can plan for this sort of thing on future days. 3. Let someone know anything that might help us identify the perpetrators. William will, of course, be apoplectic when he sees not one but two stumps! Yes, and tell all the maples what they are too... great idea. That's certainly a possibility. Are you trying to tell us something or just speculating. Sounds like my initial concerns about communication may not be as bad as I feared.

Why would you assume Neutral in the absence of other information? Your second question is just odd. It's not common for scum to have multiple night kills. In all likelihood, one was a maple kill and one was either a vig or a SK. The way you're wording it is like you're asking for a vig to stand up and say, "heyo, that was me!". I really don't think we want our vig to do that. Maples, on the other hand... be my guest!

Well that is certainly unexpected. It's extremely frustrating not to know what Alastair's affiliation was. I'm hoping that whatever pains it causes Lauren and Buck to speak, that they are still able to contribute positively here.

I hosted some LEGO mafia games on another site and determined that sticking to the more strictly demanded scheduled here at EB would be quite a challenge for me. There is quite a bit of work that goes into these games and I greatly appreciate it from all our hosts!

As you say, it's not really between anyone anymore. At this late stage, it's between Alastair and a no-lynch and you can't really affect that outcome. Since the vote is already secured, you can vote your conscience. Ok... care to elaborate? It's not a poke vote to get you to speak. It's a vote based on my interpretation of your actions today. I don't feel strongly enough that Alastair is not a maple to fight for your lynch over his, but I do feel strongly enough about you to cast my vote your direction. Surely you can respect that even if you disagree. Again, I'll just have to disagree for now. I won't say that I don't have suspicions on other trees right now, but I also don't think the case for Alastair is particularly strong. It's typical day 1 stuff, not the slam dunk you're making it out to be.

I don't agree that Alistair was necessarily our best chance at a lynch when you accelerated the case against him. He still needed something like 5 votes to get there and there were other candidates that could also have gotten there. My comment on your tunnel vision was with regards to a perceived lack of effort on your part to try to evaluate whether his call for help could possibly be Oaky. It looked to me as if you'd already made up your mind. In reference to the contradictory things here... I think that your actions in private and your actions in public both indicate an effort to manipulate others to your agenda. My interpretation of your underlying intentions is that they're not any different. They're two sides of the same leaf. I'm not against you in particular. I'm with the oaks, and right now, you look the least like an oak to me no matter how many times you try to tell us how strong of an oak you are. That's the same logic (voting for who you're most suspicious of) that has you with your vote on Alistair and I don't begrudge you that. It's the right way to approach these things, and I will acknowledge that I don't get a strong oaky flavor from Alistair either. You are most certainly wrong on your last comment, though. It would be far more unhelpful if I were not to vote for the person I'm most suspicious of. As for Alistair, it looks like he has the votes so I really hope he comes up maple tomorrow. Not only would that be a great start to this sordid affair, but in my mind, it would pretty much clear you. So that would help us get additional resolution to today's affairs and give me one person I'd feel like I could trust.