mostlytechnic

Adone, you're right, most of my arguments can go either way... that's why I threw out that it's really up to everyone to decide which of us looks scummier.

I put zero stock in your "two games in a row" logic - that's not how it works. Just like there's no hints in the picture, there's no reference to other games in this one (other than seeing people's play style - but there's no more or less likely to be recruiting in this game because there was before). And yes, a no lynch is better than lynching the vig. But there's still a risk there, which is why I'm pushing everyone to lynch Adone, the scum killer. Lynch him, and then I'll submit a kill of the next most likely person, and if he IS the last Ultimatio, then my kill won't occur. And if he's not the last, then hopefully I'll get another one. And I'm open to suggestions on who to take out. Although I think it'd have to be either Alarico or Godalupe, since our PR holder are pretty much ensured to be town (and I don't think I've ever heard of a PR being able to be recruited).

I say... Vote: Adone Inzerillo (Actor Builder) Beyond that, what can I say that I haven't already said? If there's a no lynch today, I absolutely will kill Adone tonight and that (hopefully) would be the end of the game. I expect he will do the same to me. Ok, fine, I'll talk some more. I like to hear myself, and I like to think out loud so you can help catch any logic errors I might make... The risk here is that if you lynch me, the vig, we the town would have ONLY the lynch going forward to take out the remaining Ultimatios, however many that is. We have 7 people left. Assume worst case here and you lynch me, then Adone kills another one tonight. That would leave 5 people tomorrow. At least one is Ultimatio, and 4 are required for a lynch. IF there's more than one Ultimatio, WE CANNOT WIN THEN!!!! They could simply prevent the lynch each day and kill one of us every night. So it is critical that we don't lynch me today. A no lynch is not much better than lynching me. IF there's more than one Ultimatio left, the kill would pass to them and we'd be in a very risky spot with 5 players and no vig left. The remaining players would HAVE TO deduce the identity correctly because they'd have to be unanimous in the voting to achieve a lynch. So hopefully I've earned enough trust in this adventure for you to join me in lynching Adone so we can rid ourselves of the Ultimatio menace.

So, what, you and I just kill each other tonight and end the game that way? Here's the flaw with all of your options, and support for my position that you're Ultimatio. You apparently know that there's only 1 scum left. I'm not sure of that fact. This game, for one so small, had a LOT of PRs going on. Combine that with the 2/3 vote rule, and it seems like John McClane expects us to learn a lot from night actions and be very sure every time we lynch. That may imply there's a higher number of scummos to find, since we have so many tools to hunt them with. The restricted PMs also forced info to be more public instead of the usual private town block, so again, that supports this game being knowledge based. Heck, perhaps there's an Ultimatio in every family - then there'd be 5 of you! So I don't think that your suggestions are to "save the townfolk" like you claim. There's no reason to do that - we win no matter how many are left. I think your motivation is to make sure that we don't lynch you and then I still get to kill someone else tonight, because you know the game won't be over. You're caught, know it, and so you're flailing like your friend Mr. Johnson did. (I see one flaw in my thinking there - I don't honestly think there's an Ultimatio in every family. That would require Masharin to be an Ultimatio, and we can be sure he's legit since he counter-claimed against Frank to seal his lynch. But there could easily still be a scum left after Adone, and they're trying to hide that from us)

I think you're correct in this analysis. Your logic is faulty here. Just because our family has the most left doesn't mean there's a scum in there. The fact that loyal mafias from other families have been killed off doesn't mean the remaining members of that family are loyal. Not going to bother quoting the other posts, but I think there's a bunch of "almost" correct analysis going on. But with ONE big flaw. You're assuming that what the other two Inzerillos said is correct. And they're not. I am the vig. Adone is the scum killer. I stayed home night one since everything was unsure, and then I killed an Ultimatio last night after his defense of his buddy yesterday. I will verify that what Casto said about Adone's private comments is correct - but they don't mean Adone has a loyal PR - it means he was fishing because he's an Ultimatio with a night action for them. I think we've got all the role pretty figured out, but there's no way to prove who's telling the truth between Adone and myself other than the lynch. So the game is over in 2 days max - lynch Adone tonight, and if I'm lying and he flips loyal, lynch me tomorrow. But if you do as I suggest it'll be over tonight with his lynch, because he's the scum. So here, let me update that role table for you: Medium -Rolecop Umbra -Tracker Actor - Ultimatio killer KH -? (Tracked, did nothing night 1) Probably VT MT - vig Rider Raider - Blocker Forresto -? (Did nothing last night, blocked) Probably VT I would have claimed to medium yesterday after we got the solid lynch case finally, but we can't PM outside the family. And I seriously thought about going ahead and claiming publicly to prevent exactly this situation, but I assumed I'd get killed last night if I had.

Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck) Now that we have a second tracker claim, I see no other possibility. I can't see any reason that a scum would counterclaim, so I think the second tracker claim MUST be loyal and therefore Frank is Ultimatio as most people think. It sucks that we had to have another PR outed to get here, and I certainly understand why the Russian waited so long to claim. Ideally, people like me would have been convinced earlier and he wouldn't have had to (or in a more normal game, we wouldn't have needed SO many votes to lynch and my resistance wouldn't have mattered). But since we have a high bar to reach in order to lynch, we have a high bar of evidence needed too.

But again, you're asking us all to lynch a PR just based on that assumption. Yep, he could be a scum tracker. They're common enough. But he could just as easily be a town tracker, since I don't at all think that having both rolecop and tracker is overpowered for a small game, assuming they're the only investigative PRs. I'm looking at it this way - since you've both been outed as PRs, let's use those abilities and see if either of you is lying. And use those abilities to find for-sure ultimatios. Or heck, block him if you want. But the huge risk is that if you're wrong, we'd be lynching TWO town PRs at the same time the scum have two free days to pick off more of us, and we almost certainly lose.

Well, that seems like quite an assumption. Your argument that he's scum is 100% based on thinking we couldn't have both. Why not? I can easily buy this game having a rolecop and a tracker, instead of an investigator. Neither role reveals alignment, so I'd argue neither is as powerful as investigator, so both could happen. I'm just worried that if you're wrong, we end up lynching BOTH of you. And that would kill us and give the ultimatios the win. I'm being very cautious this game since lynches pretty much have to be unamimous, so less to learn about alignment there, and we have few people to sacrifice to the learning process. I'm almost more inclined to have you both use your abilities again tonight and see what we can learn.

First, thanks for the understanding on my need to attend to my uncle-in-law's funeral. He was a good man (who I did NOT kill, the pancreatic cancer did that) but more importantly, knew Jesus so now he's cancer free and better than he's ever been. Ok, a bit of clarification please. Who contacted who first about night results in the Johnson family? It sounds like you both claimed your roles to each other in PM before either posted publicly. Is that correct? As a rolecop Michael would know WHAT Frank is, but not that Frank was checking out Michael at the same time. On the other hand, Frank knew Michael was targetting him with SOME ability, but not what that was (other than not vig since he wasn't dead). If Michael is telling the truth that he's town, then all of his statements make sense. But like Frank pointed out, it's all 100% based on believing that Michael IS town. It IS possible that you both are town. These things are typically assigned randomly, so it's possible to have that much "power" concentrated in one family. Could Michael be scum? I'm trying to think through if there's any way that works... I'm not that concerned with the public claims. It's only day 2, but it's a small game so it's equivalent to day 4 or something in a bigger one. And with the 2/3 rule and small numbers, we don't have any room to mess up.

In case day 2 starts anytime soon, I'll have very minimal access to EB for the next 24-36 hours. Have a funeral (wife's uncle) to attend out of town.

Category A: #11 #1 #4 Category B: #2

Like I said, scummy. Italians are good cooks. Americans are dumb bikers in leathers. Russians are scummy. On a more serious note, why so many people wasting votes on this John McClane guy? He's NOT a scummo, so quit hiding and vote. Voting for him just looks like you're trying to look active without making any commitment. Aka, scummy.

So... exactly what I said many hours ago? Creative, this one. I'm going to Vote: Masharin Ivankov (Umbra-Manis) because he's only bothered to show up and make one throwaway comment so far. Scum like to be quiet and not get noticed. and because Russians always seem scummy to me....

The biggest drawback to a no-lynch is that people get too quiet and we don't learn anything. So I propose we DO actually vote once it's opened and act like we're going to lynch someone, but not demand that people shift votes and stuff to guarantee a lynch. Otherwise, we will accomplish nothing other than letting the scum get a free kill tonight.

Wow, see what happens when we get some new blood in here? In the past I would have been put up for a lynch myself for merely suggesting a no-lynch day 1 (even though statistically it's been proven to be good for the town) because so many old-timers around here are against it.

Dang it's quiet around here. And headed into the weekend, dunno if it'll pick up much. So let's get some talk going on since that's the only way to find the ultimatios. As a serious topic, should we go for a no-lynch today? Odds are high of getting non lynch days in this sinec we need a 2/3 majority. With only 11 of us, we don't have a ton of wiggle room. That's like starting a bigger game on day 3 or 4 but without any history to base decisions on. We need time here and don't have the people to sacrifice. Next, we need to set up a complicated code system to ensure that only trusted people know what's going on. Oh wait, wrong game. Although, since we can only PM in our own families, you never know...

Hey MacClane - any chance we can get the usual lineup of photos and names? There's a bunch of families to keep track of here. Thanks. As long as we're keeping you trapped here, might as well make yourself useful. And then get us something to eat. Lasagna if you can do it right. Spaghetti if your culinary skills aren't so good.

From the photos in Jim's review, the inventory in the manual lists the rims as 6144001

I had no trouble picking one up at my store (Columbus OH) this afternoon. There were only 2 out but I don't know how many still in the back. Oh, and mine cost a whopping $5.26. Yep, I had $295 in VIP points to use :)

I'm mentally comparing this to the issues / recall of the 8043 a few years back. In that case, the fans said that the LAs used to lift the arm were too weak and the clutches kept slipping. That time, TLG's response was to pull the sets while they redesigned the LAs and then reissue the set with new parts. And for those who had already bought the set, you could call and they'd send you the new LAs. This time, bah. I agree with all the others saying that PR statement was crap. If you really meant to have the gearbox shift out of order on an Ultimate Technic set, you darn well should have noted that in the manual and explained it. But really, you should never have considered such a thing. And so they say they're proud to have a detail-oriented fanbase that would notice little details like the gearbox being out of order? Baloney. They messed up (either misprint or they really did make a bad design decision) and should have owned up to it. Being honest and fixing a problem goes a LONG way to making your fans happy.

Well, since the esteemed host already made me look scummy in the intro pictures, I figured I might as well go all out.

Are these supposed to be in lego stores in the US today? Won't be able to get there till afternoon. edit: See that NevynPA just posted a store that has them, so I guess they do. Looks like I'm making a stop on the way home from work.

Make sure you give yourself the proper penalty votes on day 1. Makes the day easier then since we've got an easy lynch target.

Thanks Jim! Still debating myself on what to buy... have almost $300 in VIP points to spend, so I'm debating between this and the BWE later. Decisions, decisions...

Amelto Inzerillo is here and ready to hunt these Ultimatios! Now, for clarity... are we going to use the conventional town/scum references, or respect our host and properly use mafia and ultimatios? And speaking of respecting the host... get that darn knife out of my hand! Making me look guilty right off the bat.... I'll just remind everyone of rule #11.