mostlytechnic

I wasn't being impatient with JJP. Just the opposite in fact, I was defending him from the (lying) impatient people.

Liar. There's nothing patient about your comment. And therefore, I vote you for the first lynch since we lynch all liars.

Love the design, beautiful work, but I just can't get past having a piano shop on the SECOND FLOOR of the building No way do those pianos fit down the stairs, and the windows aren't even big enough to crane them in and out. So the only way the shop works is to Lego-ify it and take the top floor off and crane them out that way

They show as out of stock there... so I don't know what lego used to charge for them. If you're willing to use "hard" instead of "very hard" they're cheaper on Bricklink: http://www.bricklink.com/catalogPG.asp?P=2909c02&colorID=3 - about $4-5 for a used one.

1. Si. 2. Si. 3. !Leyva, obviousamente!

Lego made an interesting design on the trailer for this, to make it work and look right, but it doesn't function like a real power puller. In reality, the trailer for a power pull does not have wheels at the front (while being pulled at least). There is a weight at the back that moves forward as the trailer is towed forward, which increases the drag since the front of the trailer digs into the ground harder. Lego used wheels on the trailer, so to simulate the increase in drag, they used elastic bands that are wound up as the trailer is towed. As those tighten, it increases the drag. The battery box moving is just for the visual effect in the Lego model.

For the work you've done, I'd honestly support that if I had any pull at all with Lego, which sadly I don't.

Thanks Blakbird - looking forward to reading this over lunch today! 1999 is still during my dark ages, so it's great fun seeing these "vintage" sets that I never had.

Cool improvements. I especially like the better engine (I know, not your design, but well implemented here!) And no problems here with your English in the video. Everything was completely understandable!

Oh don't scare me... I don't plan on ever getting that bad. It's just a game. It's just a game. It's not real. It's just a game....

Thanks for the feedback. You're right, I didn't beg. You responded pretty quick. I guess by that point I'd gotten claims from everyone else, so given that I'd already gotten a scum lynched, I should have been trusted enough for people to claim without being asked. Plenty of people did - including townies. In fact, I thnk the only people I had to ask were you, jluck, and DF/CC. Sorry we didn't trust you more - but when you claimed vig we just weren't sure that you were a vig and not scum/SK claiming vig. If you had been one of those, you probably could have claimed vig at that point since there'd only been 1 kill a night and gotten away with it. You being scum was unlikely with the forresto kill, but heck, I killed off a scum in Kingdoms as the scum killer since we were a divided scum team. So it does happen. Without that game in the back of my mind I might have trusted you more. That's true - it was a desperate and gutsy play that almost worked. I was definitely weighing it heavily in my mind, and it was being discussed on the block PM. You even got ladyK to start the voting on you to ensure her townieness... if it had worked, I probably wouldn't have investigated her that night. I would have started checking the block. What lost it for you was Tariq sending me this PM: "Actually now that I think about, this can't be right. JJP was blocked last night, meaning the last scum has a blocking ability, if we assume there is only one scum left then it can't be Lady K - because I blocked her. Which means she can't have blocked JJP last night. Or done anything for that matter. But this does give us more room for elimination as too who blocked him: It can't be you because you tracked DD It can't be me because I blocked Lady K It can't be DD because he killed Umbra It can't be CMP because he guarded you It can't be Lady K because I blocked her It can't be PD because he watched CMP targeting you So it must be Jluck surely... Unless of course JJP has been converted and is lying about being blocked but I doubt that." As I looked at that I knew he was right. I had it narrowed down that you or ladyK had to be scum. SLIGHT chance of the block being infiltrated, but I couldn't find any way one of them could be. All had done stuff that either caught scum or was cross-checked enough that I mostly trusted everyone. But tariq's logic made sense - I'd been too focused on the kills and not enough on JJP being blocked. Oh, believe me, you stressed the crap out of me! I'm surprised I wasn't seeing my spreadsheet in my sleep!

Sorry Umbra - we told DD to kill you because you were vanilla. DD was going to kill LadyK, but we were blocking her so said to kill you instead. Oops :(

On to the deadboard... Sorry new guys, that you all died first. I think it's largely that people who have played together have "reads" on each other, so it's easier to mis-read the newbies and jump all over them. Plus often the newbies over-react to things. You all did pretty good, and I'm glad the scum team talked forresto down so he didn't overreact to his penalty votes. Can't wait for more games to get you involved in! The whole fruit thing - I basically ignored that. I'm so used to the pictures having ZERO information (and the occasional prank role) that I didn't make any connection to the apple and recruiting and stuff. I didn't even think there necessarily was a real fruit-giver on night 1. Yes, the early claims thing made my life easier. I didn't have to worry about having a mouthpiece or hiding my role. One thing I'm definitely learning is to go re-read earlier days to figure out who the vig is. Interesting discussion about whether the lovers were recruitable. Sounds like the scum were told they could recruit vanilla, which should have excluded the lovers. What would have happened if DF or CC was recruited? Get both of them? The other die? Or the lover-bond be broken? Or they're still lovers, but on opposite sides of the game? Any of those seems bad to me. IMHO, they should not be recruitable, and hosts need to be VERY careful how they word things since we nit pick every detail :) Ah, you answered: "You wouldn’t have been told. Might have been a bit of a dickish move on my part though, since the lovers were confirmed to each other in the Role PM’s." I agree with DF - that would definitely be a dickish move. bob - thanks for the warning that your next game will be wiki-proof :) I really like the idea BTW, make people think and evaluate everything. Also, intereesting that you'll ban PMs. I do agree, it seems like the games here start good and then get quiet as it moves to private discussions. Perhaps something though like a town-block board that can be used at night? I've seen mafia played where the scum also can only talk in private at night. There's also interesting ways to change the vote system - like not being able to unvote (though that generally just leads to some sort of "fakevote" system and then everyone places real votes once it's settled, but is a big inconvenience to people who can't be online near the end of the day). I'd be good with most votes is lynched instead of having to have a majority. One thought - instead of no votes for the first 24 hours, what about MANDATORY votes in the first 24 and then people can change from there as the day goes on? Or everyone has to submit a night vote and that is the start of the day? Yes, the game ended here since there were only 2 vanilla claims left and we could lynch one and vig the other. bob, if you make me a neutral survivor that investigates as scum and has to survive till the end, I'll haunt you forever. Thanks again medium - it was fun! And pretty well balanced except the scum got unlucky and over-used the recruit attempts.

Day 3 - bob, sorry I gave away that you were getting lynched by not asking for a claim from you. Oops! Coulda at least made it a bit more of a surprise for you. And your crazy werewolf claim was fun (and the fact that medium ran with it in the photos just about made me need some new pants...) In the end, we really weren't sure where the scum was (we were expecting just 1) but I'd pretty much checked all the claims every way I could and could only come up with jluck or LadyK being the scum, so we figured take out both and be sure to get the scum.

Ok, so thoughts from reading the boards. scum - brilliant idea recruiting night 1. Actually makes a ton of sense, since you were expecting most to be vanilla, or get a rolecop essentially if you failed. Makes a ton of sense. I'm just surprised that CMP and DD survived after you knew they were PRs - why not try to get them lynched or kill them? LadyK - interesting that you were already plotting a lynch of me on day 1. Sucks that my townplay looks so scummy that you assume (correctly) that you could get me lynched reading further... dang. Guess I need to go reread day 1 and see what I was saying that's so scummy And thanks for not letting them block me night 1. Game probably would have been completely different if I'd failed night 1. Pdave - why the claims on day 2 to people that weren't involved (ie ladyK?) I have to say, I never 100% trusted you. The way the whole thing went down, I spent much time over the rest of the game trying to figure out if you could possibly be scum and how to test you. And yes, I sent out that big PM night 2, knowing that both scum and town would get it. I wasn't sure who was trustworthy, so I just outed pretty much everything I knew so that the info would survive (I was seriously afraid I'd be getting killed that night). So I decided it was worth the scum knowing so that the town knew too - since the scum would know most of the info anyway. The only thing the scum really learned was my role, where the town would learn a lot. Gotta run, I'll read the other scum days and the dead board later...

Thanks medium, it was a blast! Things were super confusing since there were SO many roles, and made SO much worse by the crazy scum trying to recruit instead of kill (and the vig killing the first couple nights!) We never did really trust DD being the vig, since I had to beg to get a claim and we couldn't figure out the lack of kills. But that's what makes it fun, the new twists and random crazy that happens each time. If the games ran as expected, they'd get boring. And I think it was pretty good balance myself - what doomed the scum was the multiple failed recruits right off the bat. They didn't realize how low the odds were on a successful recruit since there were so many roles. In a more typical game (ie more vanilla) it would have swung hard their way since they'd be gaining numbers pretty quickly, and the lack of kills would have still be confusing to town. DD - thanks for working with us even though we kept you pretty out of the loop. We just couldn't trust that you really were the vig with the low number of night kills. And I'm still curious about you killing the first couple nights. Worked out ok since you got forresto for us, but it's a risky play. And there was definitely a real fear that the block had been infiltrated. I was going over and over everyone's claims, trying to see if there was anywhere someone could be lying. This last night, other than the kills, we were using the other roles to just cross-check and watch each other's actions trying to catch a scum in case we were wrong. But this game is good evidence of why we kill the vanillas and don't let them in the town block :) jluck - that was a SUPER gutsy play at the end, offering yourself up as a vanilla to be lynched. Why didn't you stay quiet and try to hide another day? One other thing that I was curious about in the block... Tariq and I kept secret that he was a jailkeeper. He claimed blocker to the group, so they thought he was just that. It meant though I had to be careful how we used his ability, since he blocked AND protected the target. So we couldn't have him block the person we were going to kill once we had DD involved. I also didn't share CMP's bodyguard claim for a while. So it's surprising to me that no one questioned the lack of protection roles, when there were SO MANY roles going on. People probably just assumed that kinjobby was the protector or something, but it still felt odd that no one brought it up. Now to go read the scumboard and deadboard and see how much they were laughing at us...

That first video is also akiyuki - and yes, it's using a computer with a webcam (plus a digital scale) to do the identification. It's just sorting by plate / technic brick / technic beam / brick / tile / other, but if you watch, it's doing pretty much instant identification to the exact part. It could sort them in more detail if it had a way to handle the different pieces (ie more output bins).

I made a list of all the people who could possibly be lying about last night's results. Some of the results overlap (people saw each other, etc), and some don't. I then made a similar list for each previous night. There was no PR who could have been lying about every night. The only person alive who could have been lying every night is Walter - he was seen not doing anything on night 2, which would seem to confirm his vanilla status, but it's also possible that he chose not to go out that night or that not all the scum had roles to begin, and once they started dying off, he took over one of their abilities. So either Walter is scum, OR there ARE conversions occurring. Walter being scum is the easier solution, but if we lynch him and he does flip town, then we'll have to start digging into conversion possibilities.

Todd brought up a really good point to me in private, so I'm going to share it because I think he may have solved it. Last night one of the block was blocked. That means that for whatever reason, the scum blocked rather than kill. But, based off of that and all the other PRs who were successful, the only person we can't account for is Walter. Everyone else in the game was doing a different action. So, either one of the claimed PRs is indeed lying (and several of last night's results cross-check with each other, so there's only a couple people who could even possibly be lying) or Walter is scum, and playing a VERY daring game today. Unvote: Margaret (LadyK) Vote: Walter (jluck)

Well, there's another PR outed I guess... for the record, Cecilia only claimed this role to the town on day 4. We suggested Robert be last night's kill, basically on a "kill off the vanilla" strategy. We (I) haven't communicated a ton with Cecilia because we've been trying to determine if this is a legit vig claim, or a SK or scum infiltration attempt. Additionally, it's generally wise to keep some distance between the town block so that if you DO have an infiltration, the scum don't learn everything. Now, here's the evidence we're looking at. On night 3, Cecilia WAS indeed seen visiting Jeffrey. That led to me contacting her and getting the claim from her. At that point she also claimed to have been the killer nights 1 and 2. Would a vig have killed night 1? Maybe, since Kinjobby was drawing some attention. Scum obviously wouldn't have killed a fellow scum on night 2 - except I seem to recall a very recent adventure where exactly that happened because the scum team was divided. Night 3, why kill Jeffrey? And since we're sharing info, one wrinkle I'll throw in. If Cecilia is telling the truth, then there have been ZERO - yes, ZERO!!! - scum kills. Jeffrey and Hailey were lovers. Both had told the town block this before their death. So when Cecilia killed Jeffrey, Hailey died as well. So how do we explain ZERO other kills the entire game? I've looked at all the claimed protection and blocks and I can't explain it that way. Unless the scum and our block/protect roles just matched up perfectly, and the odds of that are super low, I don't have an explanation. Ok, I just studied my spreadsheet AGAIN. The only possible way I can come up with zero scum kills is that Margaret is the killer. So, I'll Vote: Margaret Corrigan (LadyK) Now, I came to that conclusion JUST on the result (or lack thereof) of night actions. However, when you add in that she's claimed vanilla publicly, therefore not a big loss if we're wrong, AND she threw down a vote on Walter after he suggested lynching a vanilla, and then when no one else was joining her, she suggested a no-lynch... I hope I'm on to something here.... This was posted while I was writing the above wall of text. Now, if I was converted night 3, why would I have reported James as scum and gotten him lynched? I could have lied and said I found someone loyal and saved a scummo. But that's moot, because I was NOT converted. And I don't think I've ever seen a game where PRs could be converted.

I think what has happened is the easy/obvious targets got taken out, and we have no good night info to go on from last night, so everyone feels stuck. And we had two days of scum being caught, so that dampened discussion and hunting.

Ok, we need to lynch someone, but I really don't want to start the voting since I don't want people to just follow my lead. So, anyone?

First, no, there are no claimed vanilla in the block. I'm in contact with them and talking privately on occasion, but they haven't been told any other info. Not even all the PRs are in the block group PM, for that matter. Second, I do agree that there seems to be a LOT of PRs in this game. Which makes me extra wary about the lack of night kills. Surely if the town has this many PRs, there'd have to be some balance on the scum side. So yes, the possibility of a lying PR being in the block has crossed my mind many times. I can't find any inconsistencies that would lead me to suspect anyone though.

Ok Walter, you did say " I can't imagine there's more than one left in a game this size." And that IS a direct quote. So my point still stands... if you thought there's only 1 vanilla left, and you're vanilla town, then asking to have yourself killed off makes no sense. Oh dang, I just went back and re-read your post and now I get what you said. You meant you think there's only 1 scum left. Somehow I managed to miss that both in your original post AND where you explained it later.

Except... you originally suggested it by saying "there can't be more than 1 vanilla left in a game this size" - which I have a couple problems with. A, how you know anything about how many PRs there are and how many have died vs how many vanilla died, and B, you claimed vanilla, so to say there's one 1 vanilla left would mean you and therefore not catch scum at all, assuming you're town. Well, killing all the vanilla can be an ok way to catch a remaining scum. Since the scum are most likely to claim vanilla... or they have to take a risk and claim a role, which generally is only after they've rolecopped someone who has died. Still risky, since you don't know if the dead player claimed to anyone.