Baritones 3: Day Four

[Brickdoctor]

The bandwagon formed a little quickly, no? There was no unvoting (yet) or splitting of the votes, just a landslide conviction.

I don't think there was much else to do. We discussed Ruxana and Donil Yesterday, and with the claims related to Dmitri and Denis not adding up, it made sense to vote for Ruxana.

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Ruxana (Roncanator): 11 votes (Peanuts, Sandy, Captain Tamamono, CorneliusMurdock, Quarryman, WhiteFang, Brickdoctor, CallMePieOrDie, JimButcher, Fugazi, Pandora)

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator).

I think I've asked enough times for you to vote in the correct format. Next time, your character will be killed off. Immediately. Thank you

[The Crazy One]

I think I've asked enough times for you to vote in the correct format. Next time, your character will be killed off. Immediately. Thank you

Oh cripes. Yes sir. I didn't realise I had been warned.

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

[Dragonator]

I agree that with the evidence against her we need to convict Ruxana. Much like Donil, I believe we have caught her in the act, and so for much the same reasons that I voted Donil, I'm happy to vote for her as well.

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

I do however intend to get to the bottom of these supposed messages tomorrow, and clear my name. I know I'm a townie, I know I can be helpful, so that issue needs to be sorted.

[RileyC]

Well I guess there's no convincing you guys not to vote for me then. You all seem so dead certain I'm scum. You didn't catch me in the act at all and I wish I could've known who killed him. But you guys, especially Samuel want my head on a stick so bad. I get the first, and probably only scum conviction and this is how you repay me?

Mark my words, I do believe Dmitri and Samuel are scum and would like them killed very much tomorrow when I turn out town. Boris I'm unsure about but he could be neutral.

As for making up my conversation with Stanislav, thats just grasping at straws from you guys isn't it? I would never put words in the great Stanislav's mouth like that. It was the last thing he sent to me before he was tragically killed. And he seemed to know he was going to be killed too that's why I was going to vote for Dmitri but it just doesn't matter anymore.

[iamded]

Hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

No, this painting needs more red. And a splash of blue there... Yes! This is coming along nicely.

Oh, er, yes. Voting. I shall indeed cast a vote. But it seems my vote is of little to no importance in the convicting of someone right now. I could vote for Ruxana like everyone else. The reasons are all there. Unblockable tracker? Please...

Or I could vote for Dmitrinator. I sure don't trust him, mainly because several people have been rather adamant that dearly departed Stan said he's not to be trusted. And he just so conveniently happens to be our investigator, which he makes clear as soon as he receives any flack. Classic scum tactic...

Then again maybe he is the town investigator. And maybe Ruxana is an unblockable tracker who is on the town's side. Or maybe she's the serial killer! Okay, that's just me guessing there.

What the hey, I'll feel better if I place a vote, so here it goes.

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

Samuel the Big Voice.

Hey, you've still got your vote! Great job champ!

[Rick]

I'm glad someone is analysing the situation a little more thoroughly than merely jumping on a bandwagon. There are a lot of questions left indeed.

As has been noted earlier, why did Stanislav trust Dmitri to confirm Samuel as Town but yet accuse Dmitri himself of being scum?

That's what's been so puzzling to me as well. Did he believe my husband got converted? Something definitely doesn't add up there. There is talk of him being in contact with the investigator, which should be his source of information, but then Dmitri claims to be that investigator himself... which is even more puzzling. But then again, I don't really see a reason for him to come forward as the investigator either, because the target he's painting on his head is huge.

So onto our successful conviction of Donil yesterday, resisted by some - those in fact still pushing for Ruxana's death, but it now appears that Donil was merely coincidentally targeting Yuri when Yuri was killed by the (presumed) other mafia. There are a lot of coincidences, really. That Ruxana should be targeting Petr the night he dies too, and not forgetting that Dmitri was targeting Stan the night he died as well. All these night actions buzzing around each other, and there are reports of ?watchers seeing Ruxana go about her business. It's almost as if the scum have this beautifully coordinated - pulling our strings and laughing at how stupid we look when we dance.

Ruxana may be talking to the wrong people. In fact, she admitted talking to people about her choice of target. So indeed, maybe she's being set up. There sure were a lot of people circling a few targets last night, if all of this is true, that's for sure. Samuel, is there a town tracker who followed Ruxana or is it a watcher who was targeting Petr?

On the other hand, Ruxana is either being mislead by scum or is just scum herself. Her choice of targets, Donil before, and Zepher last night, still don't seem like the most straightforward choices and certainly don't take away my suspicion. I'm not sure she's scum at all, but I also don't see us reaching another conviction today, so I might as well add my...

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

As for making up my conversation with Stanislav, thats just grasping at straws from you guys isn't it? I would never put words in the great Stanislav's mouth like that. It was the last thing he sent to me before he was tragically killed. And he seemed to know he was going to be killed too that's why I was going to vote for Dmitri but it just doesn't matter anymore.

I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that that defense, true or not, is not helping you one bit as the information of Stanislav contacting people with his suspects was out already. No one is saying you're lying about it, it just... doesn't help you.

[def]

The bandwagon has formed and Ruxana, as it stands, will be voted out tonight. The bandwagon formed a little quickly, no? There was no unvoting (yet) or splitting of the votes, just a landslide conviction. I have no idea if Ruxana is scum or not. She certainly hasn't done herself any favours, however I do believe her when she says Stanislav asked her to follow Petr, as I do believe Stanislav didn't trust Petr.

------------------

As to Denis, he seems happy to ignore the fact that a once vocal townie, Stanislav, pointed quite clearly to him being scum in these last-breath messages. Even after he spent a good while trying to get Stanislav lynched for trying to convict a scum in Donil. We all seem to be happy to ignore that too.

Geez. Where to start with this. I think there are quite a number of things you're very conveniently ignoring. I feel like you're laying the groundwork to lynch me later, even though there were holes in your logic both today and yesterday (and the reply of mine you also ignored).

First, here is me addressing Stan's comment as much as I can: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59227&view=findpost&p=1056038 , as you can see, I haven't ignored it at all.

So, you think Stan's gut might be better than others, but you also say that he didn't trust Petr, now a confirmed townie. Got it.

You think I tried to get him lynched, when I voiced suspicion at some behavior of his. Got it. The three people jumping to lynch him after I voiced something warranted no suspicion from you. Got it. But the people jumping on the Ruxana bandwagon are suspicious. Got it.

I really had no intention of voting for Stan yesterday, I was just taking notes, as you are today. But Stan's replies were so over-the-top, he just looked like scum to me. And that made me look like scum to him. Like it did Petr. I'll try not to hold it against you, but I'd like you admit you're being inconsistent in your reasoning.

Samuel, is there a town tracker who followed Ruxana or is it a watcher who was targeting Petr?.

I wanted to know this too. I thought I'd asked it, but I can't remember now. It would make a hell of a lot of difference in how confident we are in this conviction today. I was thinking it had to be a watcher, since Ruxana claimed tracker and has shown the ability with the confession of <WBD's character>. And in that case, they should know if only a single person targeted them. Samuel can tell us that before the end of the day, right?

[KartoffelViking]

Well it certainly doesn't matter now, but in the interest of self preservation and avoiding the wrath of the gods, I will

Vote: Ruxana (Roncanator)

[Dragonator]

I sure don't trust him, mainly because several people have been rather adamant that dearly departed Stan said he's not to be trusted.

So your mistrust is entirely based on the final words of a townie who also mistrusted Petr? I've said it already, and still haven't had a clear answer from anyone as to why his word is all of a sudden so trustworthy.

The fact is, he doesn't have any evidence against me, otherwise he would have shared this with Samuel. He just has his gut instinct, and that didn't really serve him all that well while he was alive, did it?

But then again, I don't really see a reason for him to come forward as the investigator either, because the target he's painting on his head is huge.

Unfortunately, the target Samuel painted on my head with her accusation was big enough already that I felt I needed to come forward to clear up any confusion and to defend myself. I understand the risks, but I felt it had to be done.

[Sandy]

Samuel, is there a town tracker who followed Ruxana or is it a watcher who was targeting Petr?

To my understanding, the Peeping Tom is a watcher who watched Ruxana, and saw her targeting Petr (but did not see what night action she used). On previous nights, the Peeping Tom watched Petr (who was "nowhere to be found") and Elena (who was seen targeting Patrick unsuccessfully, and was targeted by Max). This seems to confirm that Max was indeed Padme, and Donil did not kill Yuri after all (because I trust the Mafia wouldn't get two kills per night).

[Tamamono]

Well I guess there's no convincing you guys not to vote for me then. You all seem so dead certain I'm scum. You didn't catch me in the act at all and I wish I could've known who killed him. But you guys, especially Samuel want my head on a stick so bad. I get the first, and probably only scum conviction and this is how you repay me?

I've already explained my stance on this. You are both scum from the same mafia. Notice how Donil actually tried to defend himself once Max died (he had basically given up before then); that leads me to believe that you and your scummy group were only planning on losing one member that day.

Mark my words, I do believe Dmitri and Samuel are scum and would like them killed very much tomorrow when I turn out town. Boris I'm unsure about but he could be neutral.

I'll keep that in mind if you turn up as Town.

As for making up my conversation with Stanislav, thats just grasping at straws from you guys isn't it? I would never put words in the great Stanislav's mouth like that. It was the last thing he sent to me before he was tragically killed. And he seemed to know he was going to be killed too that's why I was going to vote for Dmitri but it just doesn't matter anymore.

No, it's not 'grasping at straws'. You just copied what other people (Wilem and Samuel) had said in their conversations and claimed the Stanislav had been telling those things to you as well.

To my understanding, the Peeping Tom is a watcher who watched Ruxana, and saw her targeting Petr (but did not see what night action she used). On previous nights, the Peeping Tom watched Petr (who was "nowhere to be found") and Elena (who was seen targeting Patrick unsuccessfully, and was targeted by Max). This seems to confirm that Max was indeed Padme, and Donil did not kill Yuri after all (because I trust the Mafia wouldn't get two kills per night).

That proves what I've been saying all along, and it probably means that the Mad Scientist is the Poisoner. It makes you wonder though, what was Elena trying to do to Patrick?

[CorneliusMurdock]

That proves what I've been saying all along, and it probably means that the Mad Scientist is the Poisoner. It makes you wonder though, what was Elena trying to do to Patrick?

Well, considering she was the cannibal holding the magnifying glass and most of us took that to mean she was our investigator, I'd think she was trying to investigate Patrick.

[Tamamono]

Well, considering she was the cannibal holding the magnifying glass and most of us took that to mean she was our investigator, I'd think she was trying to investigate Patrick.

If that's the case, then Dmitri must be lying about his role, or one of them has a modifier (insane, paranoid, naive) on their role.

[Rick]

To my understanding, the Peeping Tom is a watcher who watched Ruxana, and saw her targeting Petr (but did not see what night action she used).

If Ruxana was the target, that's a tracker role and not a watcher.

On previous nights, the Peeping Tom watched Petr (who was "nowhere to be found") and Elena (who was seen targeting Patrick unsuccessfully, and was targeted by Max).

Tracker again, and a combination of watcher and tracker? If the Peeping Tom targeted Elena, he/she saw her both targeting Patrick and being targeted by Max. That suggests he/she can see both the target of his/her target and who is targeting his/her target (uhm, yeah that makes sense, just read it three times).

What does this make Petr then, if he was nowhere to be found? I thought he was just a vanilla townie.

And if he is indeed a combined watcher and tracker, wasn't anyone seen targeting Ruxana last night? With all the attention she received yesterday already, I would have expected her to be targeted last night.

If that's the case, then Dmitri must be lying about his role, or one of them has a modifier (insane, paranoid, naive) on their role.

An inventor could have also handed out one-shot investigative night actions.

[Pandora]

Got it.

Denis, it wasn't my intention to get you so worked up, but it is very good to see you more involved in the last day or so, now that you've put down the cough syrup. I didn't say that much about you, but you have replied most verbosely.

I will agree, you haven't ignored Stan's last message, but there was no further discussion after that. People focused on whether Stan could have been "sure" or not, and didn't further explore the names that were brought up. That worried me, so I have mentioned it, glad you got that and sorry for saying you ignored it when you haven't.

Who knows what Stan was thinking when he sent out those messages, and I agree, his gut-feeling was been proved wrong on one occasion with Petr, but it sounds now like you'd prefer to ignore all of that information based on his poor judgement in that paricular instance.

I have not said that the three people jumping to lynch Stan haven't roused any suspicion in me (obviously Petr has now been shown to be town), do not be so quick to put words in my mouth. However you had already been extremly keen to find any possible reason to paint Stanislav as scum before you voted. Maybe you just didn't like the guy?

So I'm glad you've "got" so many things, and that you're taking notes just like I am. I'm just surprised it took only a sentence or two from me for you to point out the holes in my logic, but thank you for that.

To my understanding, the Peeping Tom is a watcher who watched Ruxana, and saw her targeting Petr (but did not see what night action she used). On previous nights, the Peeping Tom watched Petr (who was "nowhere to be found") and Elena (who was seen targeting Patrick unsuccessfully, and was targeted by Max). This seems to confirm that Max was indeed Padme, and Donil did not kill Yuri after all (because I trust the Mafia wouldn't get two kills per night).

This is news to me. And slightly disturbing at the same time. It's a bit of an odd role for a Peeping Tom to see both what their target does, and whether it's successful, and who targets their target.

So the Peeping Tom watched Petr on the first night and he was nowhere to be found, the morning after he woke up with a headache, that would make sense, after all we all knew Petr woke up with a headache, he was very clear about it. Night Two the Peeping Tom is both able to track and watch Elena, and even receive something of Elena's night action results. Something about this doesn't add up.

[Peanuts]

To my understanding, the Peeping Tom is a watcher who watched Ruxana, and saw her targeting Petr (but did not see what night action she used). On previous nights, the Peeping Tom watched Petr (who was "nowhere to be found") and Elena (who was seen targeting Patrick unsuccessfully, and was targeted by Max). This seems to confirm that Max was indeed Padme, and Donil did not kill Yuri after all (because I trust the Mafia wouldn't get two kills per night).

So your person can both watch and track and find out if the action was succesful? Seems like an overkill role to me.

So he knew that on night two Elena was killed by Max (as nobody else had targetted her obviously), but nobody came up with this back then? He died anyway, so that doesn't matter, I'm just wanting to point that out. I wonder which roles we still have. We lost our inventor, our blocker and our investigator, having left only an overkill tracker-watcher-whatever-guy and possibly a vigilante/poisoner. Those are fairly powerful roles, and three of them are dead. I'm afraid of the roles the scum will have in balance. We still have a converter on the loose, and some killers. And whatever else. Well, let's do our best.

[Brickdoctor]

We still have a converter on the loose, and some killers. And whatever else. Well, let's do our best.

Are you saying you know there's a converter?

[Peanuts]

Are you saying you know there's a converter?

I don't know it by 100%, but it's mentioned in the rules.

[Brickdoctor]

I don't know it by 100%, but it's mentioned in the rules.

Sorry, completely forgot about that.

[JimBee]

If that's the case, then Dmitri must be lying about his role, or one of them has a modifier (insane, paranoid, naive) on their role.

It may not be either of those. Even if Elena was an investigator, it is entirely possible for there to be a second one. And who's to say they weren't/aren't both sane, or Elena was the one with the modifier?

So the Peeping Tom watched Petr on the first night and he was nowhere to be found, the morning after he woke up with a headache, that would make sense, after all we all knew Petr woke up with a headache, he was very clear about it. Night Two the Peeping Tom is both able to track and watch Elena, and even receive something of Elena's night action results. Something about this doesn't add up.

Where did Samuel say anything about the "Peeping Tom" receiving Elena's night action results? I would be very surprised if they did, that role wouldn't make any sense at all.

I, for one, think that what Samuel has presented so far about this peeping tom character is possible. Someone who can watch and track? I'm almost certain I've seen something like it in those films...

Anyway, I, too, would like to see some of these questions cleared up about this peeping tom.

[Pandora]

Where did Samuel say anything about the "Peeping Tom" receiving Elena's night action results? I would be very surprised if they did, that role wouldn't make any sense at all.

In saying the Peeping Tom saw that Elena targeted me unsuccessfully.

To my understanding, the Peeping Tom is a watcher who watched Ruxana, and saw her targeting Petr (but did not see what night action she used). On previous nights, the Peeping Tom watched Petr (who was "nowhere to be found") and Elena (who was seen targeting Patrick unsuccessfully, and was targeted by Max). This seems to confirm that Max was indeed Padme, and Donil did not kill Yuri after all (because I trust the Mafia wouldn't get two kills per night).

[Peanuts]

Where did Samuel say anything about the "Peeping Tom" receiving Elena's night action results? I would be very surprised if they did, that role wouldn't make any sense at all.

I think, he's meant the aspect that the Peeping Tom told Elena's night action was unsuccesful, which goes further that just watching/tracking.

[JimBee]

In saying the Peeping Tom saw that Elena targeted me unsuccessfully.

Oh, I thought you meant the investigation results. Perhaps her failure had to with the fact that she was murdered? I do agree, it is a bit strange that the peeping tom would know if their target's actions were successful or not. Not that it mattered in that case; if Elena was the investigator, she couldn't have shared her result either way.

[Tamamono]

Oh, I thought you meant the investigation results. Perhaps her failure had to with the fact that she was murdered? I do agree, it is a bit strange that the peeping tom would know if their target's actions were successful or not. Not that it mattered in that case; if Elena was the investigator, she couldn't have shared her result either way.

You know, in situations similar to this, the night actions always go in a specific order. And usually, Investigators go before Killers, so her action still might have worked. However, I think she may have been blocked and killed in the same night. Max (the Russian Mafia Godfather) killed her, but there was no Russian Mafia kill the night before. Maybe they tried to convert her on Night 1, and then found that she couldn't be converted (usually, major night actions can't be converted). This would cause them to suspect her of being extremely dangerous to them, so they decided to kill and block her.