What makes Lego Model Team, "Model Team"?

[TechnicJuan]

I know we had a discussion before on what makes Technic models, Technic but I often wondered about what actually justifies what Model Team actually is. Obviously they are brick based models, but do they need to have some sort of technic function to be considered model team or does any brick vehicle classify as Model Team? I would like to hear your thought on this.

[Frequency]

some of TLG's descriptions from the old catalogues

1989 - "These big models are specially designed for expert Lego builders who want the utmost in reality. They are the most life-like models ever made from Lego bricks"

1992 - "These big models are the most realistic ever built from Lego System bricks. The details are stunning and the models' sheer size makes them a collector's item"

1994 - "The big models do not only impress with their size. The many details are also astonishing. These models can really get construction going. For hours and hours"

1995 - "It doesn't matter if you are wanting a beauty or beast. In Model Team you can get it all. These models not only impress because of their size - the details are just as astonishing. The biggest problem? Which one to choose!"

I think the big differences have to be the use of bricks and the detail and scale of the models that define it from both technic and minifig building

Edited August 29, 2010 by Frequency

[eMHa]

Is LEGO Creator like Model Team?

In my opinion Model Team has some more Technic functions. But with Model Team functions follows form where LEGO technis is form follows functions.

Perhaps LEGO Creator is the successor of Model Team? In what time Model Team was discontinued and in what time LEGO Creator appeared?

[Ralph_S]

When I think of Model Team I think of very detailed vehicles on a considerably larger scale than suitable for minifigs and largely built with system elements. I expect them to have some working features, although not necessarily using LEGO Technic elements.

It's obviously not a rigid definition. I can think of a few official Model Team sets that didn't have all that many Technic elements in them beyond a few beams in the chassis and a steering mechanism. Some other sets LEGO have released have the same look and feel, but weren't labelled as Model Team: some creator sets, the larger Ferrari and Lamborghini models in the Racers theme, the classic airplanes they released as 'sculptures' (Wright flyer, Sopwith Camel and Red Baron).

I normally don't particularly care about what theme something I build fits into, but when posting something on EB it becomes an issue. Take my VW Passat. Where should I post it? Town? That seems to be mainly minifig oriented. Racers? Hardly. It's just a sedan. I'm basically stuck with having to chose between Model Team and 'other themes'. I think Model Team comes the closest.

Cheers,

Ralph

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ralph_S

[rriggs]

I think that Model Team sets are defined by their detail and their scale. In comparison, Technic models do not have the detail or the finish to necessarily make them realistic models. City/Town vehicles are generally out of proportion due to them needing to accomodate minifigs ( which are also out of proportion).

With Model Team, the scale is normally realistic and while there may be Technic frames and working bits there is also a finished body which is also realistic.

I own some 1990s Model Team and all the current Creator vehicle sets and I would say that these Creator vehicles are as detailed and well designed as the Model Team sets and could have been marketed as such if Lego so wished.

Cheers

Rog

[Rijkvv]

All official Model Team cars and trucks had working steering. For me, that's one of the most important things and advantages in comparison to Creator. The latter has the advantage of no stickers, and more specific no STAMPS. I prefer Model Team, however. To me it looks more detailed, but I have to say it can be pure nostalgia.

[rriggs]

All official Model Team cars and trucks had working steering. For me, that's one of the most important things and advantages in comparison to Creator.

Not quite true I'm afraid! For example, the Creator Car Transporter 6753 has steering.

Cheers

Rog

[skyliner]

Hello all

For me Model Team is the merging link between Creator and Technic.

Model Team uses the technical aspects of Technic but has the freedom to use all types of lego bricks to create a very accurate final finish that you can not attain with just Technic alone.

Model Team is really the best of both worlds.

Sky

[AndyC]

Not quite true I'm afraid! For example, the Creator Car Transporter 6753 has steering.

So does 5893 Offroad Power, I'd say they were the modern equivalent of the Model Team sets. The difference is really that the creator sets are aimed at being parts packs that encourage exploration of differing designs around a theme.

[RohanBeckett]

Although I loved model team, and wished for it a LOT when I was younger..

..in some ways, from a technical standpoint, many Creator sets have much more mechanical functionality than Model team ever did.

I consider the 'Make and Create - Designer' (2003) sets very much a precursor to Creator..

4402 Sea Riders, 4403 Air Blazers, and 4404 Land Busters have some very good mechanical details.. especially the amazing 4403 main model Helicopter.

A very clever ratchet system, similar to the 8232 Technic chopper. But MUCH bigger mechanism, and completely hidden... you press the two rear angled fuselage panels to start the rotor spinning

The Creator black sports car has already been mentioned - with a very detailed engine bay, interior, and steering..

And then there's the following years' 4993 Cool Convertible, with the amazing retractable roof!

I'll admit that some Creator sets arn't as complex or detailed as some of the later Model Team sets... but they are pretty close!

RB

[CP5670]

Yes, I think Creator on the whole has more functionality than Model Team. 4403 was one of the most impressive cases, and the more recent 4993 had a nice convertible roof. We have also seen some motors and light/sound bricks in the theme.

Many MOCs combine Technic and MT, but official MT sets never had much in the way of functionality. Steering was common but was all we ever saw there. The MT sets did have more greebles than Creator models and also chrome parts later on. However, the Creator sets have been getting more detailed over time, and today I think they have become a good replacement for MT. The only thing we haven't seen in Creator yet is a larger scale for vehicles, like the MT sets 5571 and 5563.

some of TLG's descriptions from the old catalogues

I recall another one that said "And don't be surprised if Dad joins in because these are the big guys!"

[rriggs]

I'll admit that some Creator sets arn't as complex or detailed as some of the later Model Team sets... but they are pretty close!

That's a good point; compared to the later sets or the Giant Truck they aren't as complex. Compare them to the early Model Team sets like 5580 American Truck and 5590 Truck, Trailer & Chopper and the Creator sets use at least as much Technic and have pretty much the same features and level of detail. They even are about the same scale!

Cheers

Rog

Edited August 29, 2010 by rriggs

[Lasse D]

You can argue that because the Auto transport and similar Creator sets have working steering mechanism, opening doors and more, they are equal to Model Team sets when it comes to functionality. Creator sets are, however, much more primitive than Model Team sets in their construction with less and simpler SNOT and other advanced building techniques. I hope that I will be able to show this difference in a month or so (awaiting bricklink orders).

[rriggs]

less and simpler SNOT and other advanced building techniques.

I would dispute that. There was no SNOT on the early Model Team whatsoever! They were very simple construction too. Take the doors on the trucks as an example, the Model Team trucks used simple Train carriage doors where as Creator trucks have carefully designed and detailed brick built doors. I have the Creator car transporter and the Model Team American truck in front of my right now for reference!

I will be very interested to see how you support your flawed argument with your Bricklink orders.....

Cheers

Rog

Edited August 30, 2010 by rriggs

[Cwetqo]

I think that main difference is that Creator focuses more on "common" bricks, while Model Team used more specialized parts. Creator is also limited with the fact that its parts must be siutable for at least 3 official models, while Model Team designers could focus on more detailed main model. Creator sets are in general also cheaper then other sets with similar number of bricks, while Model Team sets were not such (I guess that it has something to do with number of different bricks in each set).

In general, Model Team sets are highly detailed "assemble and put on shelf" models and Creator sets are more like good value bricks sources and starting point for "creative" assambly of own models.

The difference between both can however be very small, like for example Creator set 4955 - Big Rig, which could easily wear Model Team marking:

[rriggs]

I think that main difference is that Creator focuses more on "common" bricks, while Model Team used more specialized parts.

In general, Model Team sets are highly detailed "assemble and put on shelf" models and Creator sets are more like good value bricks sources and starting point for "creative" assambly of own models.

Are you sure you are not thinking of Creator houses? The Creator trucks have Technic chassis, use Technic components in their moving parts and include many specialist parts. Try building a car transporter trailer or an adjustable towing rig well using just bricks! Just because modern Technic sets contain very few or no "bricks" does not mean than other sets that do contain bricks are simply "brick sources".

Do you actually own any Creator trucks or is your argument based on the pictures on the boxes?

On my "shelf" I currently have the 6753 Creator car transporter, 6753 Creator heavy tow truck, 6752 Creator fire truck alongside the 5580 Model Team American Truck and 8258 Technic Crane Truck. Am I wrong to display these detailed and well designed models alongside Technic & Model Team?

Cheers

Rog

Edited August 30, 2010 by rriggs

[Ralph_S]

The difference isn't all that large, but I do agree that Creator sets are designed with a slightly different philosophy in mind. I too have the impression that Model Team sets were pretty much intended as display pieces while Creator sets are designed more with the idea of having a nice set of parts suitable for building, say, planes or vehicles.

That said, the main models of the car transporter and the fire engine, for instance, do get pretty close to what Model Team was like and they probably don't look out of place together with similarly sized Model Team trucks. They are great sets and nice models.

Cheers,

Ralph

[Cwetqo]

I have (among others):

5590: Whirl and Wheel Super Truck

4955: Big Rig

6753: Highway Transport

8258: Crane Truck

8285: Tow Truck

5893: Offroad Power

and i still think that creator trucks are behind model team set if you look at thei "presenting" value. I just dont like brick built doors, windshield from ordinary panels and so on...

However, it's just my opinion and I also very much like creator sets, they are just not so authentic.

[hoeij]

I have (among others):

5590: Whirl and Wheel Super Truck

4955: Big Rig

6753: Highway Transport

8258: Crane Truck

8285: Tow Truck

5893: Offroad Power

and i still think that creator trucks are behind model team set if you look at thei "presenting" value. I just dont like brick built doors, windshield from ordinary panels and so on...

However, it's just my opinion and I also very much like creator sets, they are just not so authentic.

The problem starts when you run out of display space. With the creator sets, you have the advantage that to build the next model, you have to take apart the model that you have, which frees up space. I sold my 5590 for $90 on BL because I had no room for it, and it was too nice of a set to take it apart to use the pieces.

[Lasse D]

I would dispute that. There was no SNOT on the early Model Team whatsoever! They were very simple construction too. Take the doors on the trucks as an example, the Model Team trucks used simple Train carriage doors where as Creator trucks have carefully designed and detailed brick built doors. I have the Creator car transporter and the Model Team American truck in front of my right now for reference!

I will be very interested to see how you support your flawed argument with your Bricklink orders.....

Cheers

Rog

So Model Team is restricted to the official sets, and not what people still build in the theme?

Model Team did showcase advanced building techniques in order to give a high level of details. The secondary model of 5590 was the one that taught me about how to use Erlings when building sideways (the pipes on top). Model Team is known for highly detailed engines (even the speed boat 5521 had nice details like a new way to use mugs). 5591 has nice detailing by using brick connected sideways all over, from the bumper to simply 1x1 tiles on Erlings the right places. Small details, but still. These details, whether snot, alternative parts usage or other techniques, is what sets Model Team apart from Creator.

[Sam42]

The way i see it, Model Team is defined by functional steering, detail, and scale, as above really.

As for the Creator thing, the sets aren't as realistically proportioned as the Model Team (with the exception of the planes (which are all beautiful) and the supercars) and they just don't have the same feel to them, not a worthy successor really....

When i was i always loved Model team sets but could never afford any of them, as an adult i still can't!

and chill out Rog!

Edited August 30, 2010 by Sam42

[Cwetqo]

I agree with you completely: I have 5590 and 4955 disassembled in bags and 6753 waiting on window shelf to find some space, so I will probably also someday sell one or both of them. The tecnhnic models are however all assembled, because they are not so easy to put apart (I once disassembled 8285 and it took me almost more then to assemble it).

OK, back to topic: I love the creator idea, but I really miss the "UCS" feeling of some Model Team set. Maybe I am slightly biased about that, because MT sets were some of biggest and most expensive sets of my pre dark age era. They were never available in our country, so me and my brother knew them just from lego catalogs (usally on back page).

And now I have money to buy them all, but unfortunately no space (and I still prefer large technic sets)

[CP5670]

I think the MT sets did in fact have more special pieces than Creator, or more specifically, relatively rare pieces. This includes things like the train doors, printed elements and chrome parts. This was partly just a result of the time period when MT was out though. In the 80s and 90s, TLG was much more willing to include unique printed and other special pieces in a set than they are today.

As for special techniques, MT wasn't any more notable than Creator in that respect. The later MT sets like 5571 did do some clever things for their time, but that also applies to some Creator sets like 4403 and 4404. This is again a result of general changes in TLG's design philosophy over time. SNOT became much more common in every theme after about 2004, compared to MT's era.

[Plastic Nurak]

The point is that Creator, with some notable exception (one for all: #4896 Roaring Roadster), is, as you've already said, conceived to be a good source of bricks for kids to create their own models. I'm a Creator fan but often, I also see those boxes under that point of view. The ideal option would be purchasing two box of the same set, one for pieces and one for model preservation, but this is possible in everyday life only for little and medium size items. The purchase of two #6743 it's easy and painless, while buying two #6753 is a veritable bleeding.

Creator sets (the big ones in primis) offer a good choice of themes, sometimes very rare in LEGO world (transport ferries, ferris wheels, mechanical dinos, spiders...) and often advanced building techniques (who was writing Creator model are primitive forgot #4958, for exemple, but new Offroad Power too), but marketing politics (I hate a so low maximum age range, especially for big models, I hoped they quit it when seeing NY Toy Fair Creator display sets reporting 7+, 8+ and 9+) seem go in opposite way to many Creator fans' wishes.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Plastic Nurak

[hoeij]

Creator sets (the big ones in primis) offer a good choice of themes, sometimes very rare in LEGO world (transport ferries, ferris wheels, mechanical dinos, spiders...)

The 3-in-1 creator sets are also better gifts, especially when the models are very different. I got my son the transport ferry 4997 for his 7'th birthday, got it just before it sold out. First he decided to build the hovercraft, played with it for weeks, then he built the airplane. He has played with the airplane for a long time now, and still plays with it every week. This 4997 has already seen tons of playtime and he has yet to build the main model. Money well spent.

The point is that you might really like the thing you see on the box (I think the ferry is awesome) but the person you give it too might have different ideas, so for gifts, a 3-in-1 creator set is sure to be a success.

He got the ferris wheel for Xmas, and here too, he wanted to build first the alternative models before building the main model. You never know in advance which model they'll like best.

Edited August 31, 2010 by hoeij