Which Themes Deserve a Reboot?

[MAB]

11 hours ago, Gomek said:

For the record, I couldn't agree more. while I understand they might want some balance, I think city figures in the CMF lines are a complete waste. That space that would be better used for a new figure from a retired theme. Especially someone like pizza deliver guy, or pastry chief should have totally been included in a city small set, and NOT prohibited me from getting a new Ice Planet, Pirate or historical figure.

I'm the opposite. I'd prefer them to use the space for a new figure from either a future theme, or a theme that has never been done. How great would it be to use CMFs to trial new characters from possible in-house themes, with a vote from buyers of CMF determining which character gets a theme built around them.

But I guess this is why CMF contain a mix. Some people want characters to interact with old sets, some with current sets, some to inspire things never done. Some just want to put them in a display case. People want different things from the CMF, and LEGO provide that.

[Digger of Bricks]

13 hours ago, danth said:

On 9/15/2019 at 8:00 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Same here, even in spite of many's instance that all the Mech sets spread-out amongst numerous already-existing themes are enough, as another playtheme built around Mecha is just too good to not attempt again! In fact, why don't try making such a reboot/spiritual successor a Space theme at the same time (in some ways also acting as a reboot/spiritual successor to 1997's RoboForce subtheme), inspired after anime such as Gundam and Voltron? 

Space Mechs would be a smash hit. It would appeal to Space fans and everyone else because who doesn't love mechs?

It's also one of the few space sci-fi tropes that Star Wars hasn't touched. Unless you count AT-ATs or whatever but it's a huge stretch to calls those mechs.

Plus, like I'd said, I think such a theme should be heavily anime-inspired like Exo-Force was, because it's likely we're never gonna see Ninjago head into Space.

13 hours ago, danth said:

On 9/15/2019 at 6:58 PM, jonwil said:

An Ice Planet reboot would be great to see. At least we got a bunch of parts that are useful for Ice Planet creations via things like Nexo Knights. (all that lovely trans-fluro-orange)

Ice Planet is one of the most fondly remembered Space themes, and has one of the best color schemes. Also, just like Mechs, ice exploration is not really a thing in Star Wars. Sure there's Hoth but other than being cold there's no overlap. 

It's a perfect choice for a reboot.

Well, you could say the same for exploration overall when it comes to Star Wars, irrespective of environment. Star Wars just ain't a exploration-driven story. 

3 hours ago, MAB said:

I'm the opposite. I'd prefer them to use the space for a new figure from either a future theme, or a theme that has never been done. How great would it be to use CMFs to trial new characters from possible in-house themes, with a vote from buyers of CMF determining which character gets a theme built around them.

Yep, that's what the Collectable Minifigure theme's best at, testing the waters for genres that not just have never been touched upon before, but also providing figures for genres and settings that Lego knows they could never even viably stretch into a full-on playtheme.

[Lego David]

4 hours ago, MAB said:

People want different things from the CMF, and LEGO provide that.

What is interesting though, is that LEGO doesn't provide me with what I want from the CMFs.

[Digger of Bricks]

5 minutes ago, Lego David said:

What is interesting though, is that LEGO doesn't provide me with what I want from the CMFs.

Pray tell, what do you want to see from the Collectable Minifigure theme? 

[Lyichir]

On 9/18/2019 at 5:55 PM, Gomek said:

For cases like this I would love for them to just release a set of figures, and let the fan community be inspired to build a theme around it.

I think this would really work. Instead of let's say doing a new ice planet theme, release one of those $40 minifigure sets with a ton of different Ice Planet figures and then inspire everyone's creativity.

There are a number of problems with this approach.

The first is that for really well-done figs, with new prints and possibly even new molds, it's more cost effective to release a bunch of those if at least some of the parts (helmets, face prints, and what have you) are shared with other sets—a challenge if there is only one set with members of that particular faction.

Secondly, the popularity of those minifigure sets is driven at least partly by the popularity of the theme as a whole. The City minifigure packs, for instance, are often bought to help augment the population of existing City sets. So without other sets for the figs to go with, sales of a themed minifigure pack like that are far from a sure thing.

And the third is that, when people want themes or factions back... it's not always just about the figs, even for MOCists. For Ice Planet, for instance, just as important as the figs are building elements like transparent orange windscreens and accessories, white skis and off-road wheels, and various decorated elements that can be used to label that factions ships as belonging to them.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, Lego David said:

What is interesting though, is that LEGO doesn't provide me with what I want from the CMFs.

They are providing what many people want though, as they always seem to sell well. There will always be some that don't want anything from the CMF.

 

8 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

For Ice Planet, for instance, just as important as the figs are building elements like transparent orange windscreens and accessories, white skis and off-road wheels, and various decorated elements that can be used to label that factions ships as belonging to them.

This is why they should forget all about Space and just do Castle. We have plenty of grey bricks to build castles with! :-)

 

[Lego David]

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Pray tell, what do you want to see from the Collectable Minifigure theme? 

I have always wanted a CMF series based on the Ninjago TV Show (not movie) with characters that never appeared in minifigure form. 

[danth]

2 hours ago, Lyichir said:

And the third is that, when people want themes or factions back... it's not always just about the figs, even for MOCists. For Ice Planet, for instance, just as important as the figs are building elements like transparent orange windscreens and accessories, white skis and off-road wheels, and various decorated elements that can be used to label that factions ships as belonging to them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

CLASSIC. THEMED. CREATOR. SETS.

[Digger of Bricks]

On 9/20/2019 at 1:57 PM, danth said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

CLASSIC. THEMED. CREATOR. SETS.

*sigh* ...and yet the theme seemingly continues to stick to complementing the modern context of City & Company, despite having no outstanding obligation to do so. 

[BrickG]

On 9/19/2019 at 9:25 AM, MAB said:

Good luck with that. Castle has never been "not kiddie". The last couple of Kingdoms Castles were 7+.

That's a suggestion. They have to put it on there.

[MAB]

41 minutes ago, BrickG said:

That's a suggestion. They have to put it on there.

Of course it is a suggestion, in reality a 5+ child could get on fine with a 7+ set if they are used to building with LEGO. The point here was that the older Castle sets were aimed at kids.

Also they don't have to put the age range on there. They choose to put it on there. The only thing they must do (for many countries) is the safety warning about choking hazards and the under 3 year old warning.

[BrickG]

On 9/23/2019 at 10:11 AM, MAB said:

Of course it is a suggestion, in reality a 5+ child could get on fine with a 7+ set if they are used to building with LEGO. The point here was that the older Castle sets were aimed at kids.

Also they don't have to put the age range on there. They choose to put it on there. The only thing they must do (for many countries) is the safety warning about choking hazards and the under 3 year old warning.

It was a Lego Movie quote. ;)

[The Brick Boss]

They need to bring the garage theme back for City. I mean.... yeah, they have the service station, tuning shop and race cars coming in 2020, but I liked the garage theme from 2009 because it was solely directed at the auto repair system in Lego City. Being ASE certified, I'm offended that these sets only stayed on the shelves for a year and a half. 

If it weren't for mechanics like us, your cop cars wouldn't be able to catch crooks. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by pooda

[Asajki]

2 hours ago, pooda said:

They need to bring the garage theme back for City. I mean.... yeah, they have the service station, tuning shop and race cars coming in 2020, but I liked the garage theme from 2009 because it was solely directed at the auto repair system in Lego City. Being ASE certified, I'm offended that these sets only stayed on the shelves for a year and a half. 

Those were some great sets! But you do realise the second image is of a 2013 set? 

Also they had these 

https://brickset.com/sets/60081-1/Pickup-Tow-Truck

https://brickset.com/sets/60097-1/City-Square

And I can argue this next one goes well enough with the 2009 ones 

https://brickset.com/sets/60056-1/Tow-Truck

[The Brick Boss]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:26 PM, OwenMistika said:

Those were some great sets!

But you do realise the second image is of a 2013 set? 

Too right. But it goes so well. My bad though. 

Quote

Also they had these 

https://brickset.com/sets/60081-1/Pickup-Tow-Truck

https://brickset.com/sets/60097-1/City-Square

Yeah.....but the first one was just a great vehicle. A good one though. 

The second one could've done well by itself with the car dealer. 

But I kinda want the orange trucks with the guys in the blue suits to return. It was such a great color combination. 

Quote

And I can argue this next one goes well enough with the 2009 ones 

https://brickset.com/sets/60056-1/Tow-Truck

It does. Except its colored differently. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by pooda

[Asajki]

5 hours ago, pooda said:

But I kinda want the orange trucks with the guys in the blue suits to return. It was such a great color combination. 

It does. Except its colored differently. 

I mean, I partly hope so too but Lego would find a way to screw it up 

And it has a bit of orange and the same logo, however this one doesn’t have the logo but it has the colours:

https://brickset.com/sets/4207-1/City-Garage

This one’s a stretch but it’s from the same wave:

https://brickset.com/sets/8402-1/Sports-Car

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, OwenMistika said:

I mean, I partly hope so too but Lego would find a way to screw it up 

And it has a bit of orange and the same logo, however this one doesn’t have the logo but it has the colours:

https://brickset.com/sets/4207-1/City-Garage

This one’s a stretch but it’s from the same wave:

https://brickset.com/sets/8402-1/Sports-Car

Very true

[Asajki]

Sidenote, does anyone remember those great old huge construction sets?

https://brickset.com/sets/7905-1/Building-Crane

https://brickset.com/sets/7249-1/XXL-Mobile-Crane

https://brickset.com/sets/7900-1/Heavy-Loader

https://brickset.com/sets/7998-1/Heavy-Hauler

https://brickset.com/sets/7344-1/Dump-Truck

[The Brick Boss]

Just now, OwenMistika said:

Sidenote, does anyone remember those great old huge construction sets?

https://brickset.com/sets/7905-1/Building-Crane

https://brickset.com/sets/7249-1/XXL-Mobile-Crane

https://brickset.com/sets/7900-1/Heavy-Loader

https://brickset.com/sets/7998-1/Heavy-Hauler

https://brickset.com/sets/7344-1/Dump-Truck

OMG! I remember those as it were yesterday. Yes, the construction theme is one that I really want to see a reboot of. 

The four themes I want to see rebooted: Garage, Farm, Construction and Harbor. I'd like to see one year where City focuses solely on its industrial side. 

[Asajki]

Just now, pooda said:

OMG! I remember those as it were yesterday. Yes, the construction theme is one that I really want to see a reboot of. 

The four themes I want to see rebooted: Garage, Farm, Construction and Harbor. I'd like to see one year where City focuses solely on its industrial side. 

I’d say I agree but the demolition sets were far from as good as the old construction ones, the harbour from 2011 is great but the 2007 one is more industrial and main, the recent combine harvester…

https://brickset.com/sets/60223-1/Harvester-Transport

https://brickset.com/sets/7636-1/Combine-Harvester

It’s not even a fair comparison! 

Some friends pretty much summed it up

’2005-2012 is definitely the best era for Lego city, really just Lego in general’

[The Brick Boss]

3 minutes ago, OwenMistika said:

I’d say I agree but the demolition sets were far from as good as the old construction ones, the harbour from 2011 is great but the 2007 one is more industrial and main, the recent combine harvester…

https://brickset.com/sets/60223-1/Harvester-Transport

https://brickset.com/sets/7636-1/Combine-Harvester

It’s not even a fair comparison! 

Some friends pretty much summed it up

’2005-2012 is definitely the best era for Lego city, really just Lego in general’

Construction and Demolition should've been collaborated in my opinion. Demolition Experts was a waste of bricks. Harbor from 2007 was my favorite. The one from 2011 felt kinda rushed. 

[Asajki]

Just now, pooda said:

Construction and Demolition should've been collaborated in my opinion. Demolition Experts was a waste of bricks. Harbor from 2007 was my favorite. The one from 2011 felt kinda rushed. 

100% agreed

Though I do like the grain features and how you can transport it 

[The Brick Boss]

28 minutes ago, OwenMistika said:

100% agreed

Though I do like the grain features and how you can transport it 

Oh yes! The grain features were kinda neat. They may just need to think the crane itself out a little more next time. 

[The Brick Boss]

Here's another City reboot I'd like to see. On the lines of industry that is. 

[Aanchir]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:54 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

*sigh* ...and yet the theme seemingly continues to stick to complementing the modern context of City & Company, despite having no outstanding obligation to do so. 

I think it's a little unfair to treat the designers like they're strictly or needlessly constraining themselves when there have been so many recent sets like Underwater Robot, Futuristic Flyer, Mythical Creatures, Modular Winter Vacation, Tree House Treasures, Mighty Dinosaurs, and Robo Explorer in which some or all of the models are based on fantasy, historic, or sci-fi subject matter. Even going back further there have been plenty of other sets inspired by fantasy creatures, robots/mechs, etc. It may not be throwbacks to classic themes, but it's not just modern day City/Town stuff either.

Even so, the reality is that a lot of the other sorts of subject matter in the Creator 3-in-1 theme like modern day vehicles, houses/shops, real-world animals, etc. have been very popular, and a lot of people express genuine disappointment when they feel like one or more of those things is being neglected. So even if there's no "outstanding obligation" to always have sets in these categories, there is still plenty of incentive for Creator 3-in-1 designers to maintain categories that have continued to drive so much of the theme's popularity.

 

23 hours ago, pooda said:

Too right. But it goes so well. 

Yeah.....but the first one was just a great vehicle. A good one though.

The 2013 set you listed was also a great vehicle! It seems like a big part of your frustration is just with how the sets are categorized… but on the whole, that's not something that is advertised on the boxes or even something that a lot of fans tend to notice or pay attention to (after all, it took until this month for Brickset to even acknowledge it as a subtheme, even though it's been around since 2012!)

 

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't worry so much about the categorization, since LEGO's definitely proven they can wow us as much or more with sets in the Great Vehicles or Town subthemes as they can in a more dedicated subtheme like Emergency, Airport, etc. It seems like it'd make more sense to hope for LEGO to make more garage, towing, and vehicle maintenance sets with your preferred color scheme, whether they come as part of a bigger wave or as more stand-alone sets that aren't all released simultaneously.

After all, the latter is more like how the vast majority of sets were released back in the classic Town era! Big waves of a single subtheme only really started to take hold in Town/City sets in the early 2000s. So if you feel like you'd like the City theme's offerings to become more like that, then sets in your preferred categories being designed and released independently of one another might honestly be a better way to achieve that goal then wanting LEGO to create full subthemes around those categories.

 

4 hours ago, pooda said:

Here's another City reboot I'd like to see. On the lines of industry that is.

*snip*

Definitely wouldn't be surprised to see another wave of Cargo sets, since in the past it's usually alternated with more passenger-focused Airport waves in much the same way that Construction has with Mining!

 

19 hours ago, OwenMistika said:

I’d say I agree but the demolition sets were far from as good as the old construction ones, the harbour from 2011 is great but the 2007 one is more industrial and main, the recent combine harvester…

https://brickset.com/sets/60223-1/Harvester-Transport

https://brickset.com/sets/7636-1/Combine-Harvester

It’s not even a fair comparison! 

Some friends pretty much summed it up

’2005-2012 is definitely the best era for Lego city, really just Lego in general’

Really? I feel like the Demolition sets were really excellent designs! I feel similarly with the recent harvester (although it's a different style of harvester than the old one from the Farm subtheme). I agree it's not a fair comparison, but not in the sense that one is clearly better than the other, but rather that it doesn't even make sense to compare them on a 1:1 basis, as if they're aiming to hit the same targets in the first place!

In either of those cases, I feel like the biggest difference between the sets you feel so disappointed in and their predecessors is size. But in that regard, I feel like the smaller designs are almost certainly an improvement in the grand scheme of things. Compared to current City stuff, sets like 7249, 7344 , and 7685 look ludicrously oversized, almost as much so as the exaggerated vehicle designs in themes like Dino Attack, Agents, or Ninjago!

 

Certainly heavy equipment like dump trucks and bulldozers can get up to much larger sizes than many people imagine them, but it's hard to imagine them dwarfing the size of most of the LEGO City buildings of their time if they're working on constructing buildings at that very scale! What's more, these oversized designs blatantly expose the minifigure's fundamentally stunted proportions, with the operator of 7685 looking like he's a child in a booster seat compared to the size of the windows and doors that surround him. The size of the vehicles in the Demolition sets are much more reasonable, as they need to be given the presence of the building remnants that are included to contextualize them.

I am generally not in agreement with people who oppose 6-stud-wide or 8-stud-wide City vehicles on principle, as I think it's valuable to have a wide enough range of sizes to visually differentiate between, say, a compact car, a mid-size sedan, an SUV, and a long-haul cargo truck. I also think it has done a lot to boost the standard of detail of LEGO vehicles, since back in the 90s when I was growing up the almost universal 4-wide standard resulted in a lot of cars and trucks beginning to feel very samey, particularly given the tendency towards using prefab 4x7 and 4x10 chassis plates for the vast majority of them.

But I think there is still a point at which a LEGO vehicle can feel "too large" for a theme as grounded as City. For standard highway vehicles like trucks and buses, I think 8 studs is usually a good point at which to draw the line. Whereas for heavy construction equivalent, I think twice that (16 studs wide) is the most that should be needed in the vast majority of contexts. Beyond that point, the benefits of making them even bigger begin to dwindle compared to the costs of how out-of-place they'd look next to most other LEGO City sets.

 

Can't say that I can agree with your friend's quote about LEGO in general being better during that period, but that's a far bigger discussion! In the very least, LEGO Ninjago, one of my favorite themes, has improved by leaps and bounds since back then, as most plainly evidenced by the recent Legacy and Spinjitzu subthemes, but also many of the standout designs from the most recent wave. LEGO Friends has likewise improved drastically since 2012, though in fairness it was still in its infancy back then. Even Creator 3-in-1 has many designs from back then (particularly creature and vehicle sets) that have been far surpassed by more recent ones.

I do think 2012 was a turning point for a lot of themes, but I would more likely consider the quality of sets from 2012 onward a step above those from earlier. It definitely was a year of great advances in all sorts of themes from City to Hero Factory to Technic to Star Wars, as well as the origin of some themes like Friends and Super Heroes that are now among the most persistently popular of the past decade. But I think I'll leave it at that, since even if your friend's statement was something of a generalization, I understand you were mainly quoting it in reference to City sets.

 

21 hours ago, pooda said:

The four themes I want to see rebooted: Garage, Farm, Construction and Harbor. I'd like to see one year where City focuses solely on its industrial side. 

I'd definitely love to see another Harbour subtheme! We've gotten some great civilian boats and ships in Great Vehicles and Coast Guard sets, but I have to admit it's a bit of a bummer that we only got one full wave of Harbour sets, particularly since it could potentially take turns with new Coast Guard subthemes to keep that line from feeling stale or repetitive.

Overall, though, even in my childhood LEGO had a sort of a funny relationship with Harbour-related sets. Around when I began collecting LEGO, they launched the Sail & Fly Marina set, and three years earlier they'd introduced the Launch & Load Seaport and Intercoastal Seaport sets. So I was familiar with those sets from posters and leaflets.

Even so, all the subsequent port/harbour sets we saw in the Town theme tended to be emergency services related, and subsequent civilian boat sets tended to be small enough that these days modernized versions could easily be imagined at $10/$20/$30 Great Vehicles price points — even some of the floating ones released as part of the then-separate Boats theme! It felt even stranger as an adult to realize that those sets of the early 90s were the FIRST time that LEGO had made any full-size harbour or marina playsets in the Town theme!

 

I can't really think of much explanation for why the subtheme never really caught on in the long term. Certainly Denmark has an intensely close relationship with its harbours, and I can't think of any of LEGO's major markets where either toy boats or real boats are considered particularly obscure or uninteresting. Maybe it's just that LEGO boats don't have the "swooshability" factor of aircraft sets or the "zoomability" factor of wheeled vehicle sets? But you'd think floating hulls should at least partly compensate for that…

Regardless, LEGO has managed to wow me time and time again with boat, ship, and harbour sets in other themes like Friends, Ultra Agents, The LEGO Ninjago Movie, and now even Hidden Side! And we've honestly seen some impressive innovation in boat and ship sets even in other City categories, like this year's Diving Yacht set, 2016's Ferry and Fire Boat sets, or 2015's Deep Sea Exploration Vessel set. So if they DO end up reviving the Harbour subtheme, I have high hopes that they could far surpass the standard of quality we saw from it in 2007 or 2011! Fingers crossed!