LEGO Hobbit 2014

[Deathleech]

But the problem is army can still be set under the same alignement..... if 2 countries join forces they are stil l2 armies, even if they are doing that ''forever'' like wargs and Orcs/goblins and men and elves came to Erebor aligned just like goblins and wargs, that would (under your theory) make them 1 army and dwarves the other.

So it kinda contradicts the theory.

That's the thing though. The elves and men are in good standing with each other before the Bo5A, but they don't always fight together. When Dale is destroyed and Lake-town attacked by Smaug, the elves aren't rushing to the humans aid. After the Bo5A is over, I am sure the humans and elves went their separate ways. They didn't all go back home together and live as one group. The goblins and wargs on the other hand are ALWAYS seen together. You never hear or see Wargs in the Hobbit or LotR without orcs accompanying them. I will say in the Hobbit they seem to be more sentient beings where as by the time LotR roles around they are little more than mounts.

Yep agreed but BOFa is called BOFa because of those 5 armiese excluding Eagles.

We could argue all day about this, but it's pointless. Tolkien never explicitly states the five armies referred to in the Bo5A. At best he hints it's the dwarves, men, elves, goblins, and wargs, but that makes little sense from a logical stand point since then the bats and eagles should also be considered their own armies and that would make it the Battle of (Six or Seven) Armies. At any rate, PJ has already stated the five armies are dwaves, men, elves, orcs, and eagles, at least in his movies. Since the sets are based on the movies it makes sense the Bo5A set has at least one representation per faction in it.

[MAB]

So now the wait is on to find out what the last few unknown sets will be ... the polybags. I'm expecting one or two if like the other series. Fingers crossed for minifigs not already in the boxed sets.

[Gibbon]

At any rate, PJ has already stated the five armies are dwaves, men, elves, orcs, and eagles, at least in his movies. Since the sets are based on the movies it makes sense the Bo5A set has at least one representation per faction in it.

I might missed that, but when and where did PJ categorically state the five armies 'The Battle of the Five Armies' named after are dwarves, elves, men, orcs and eagles? From PJ's point I see no real reason to make a statement like that as in the movie it is not necessary to make a decision on that. In the battle scene there will be elves, dwarves, men, orcs, wargs, bats, eagles and Beorn present for sure but very few of the spectators will care about the question who the five armes are exactly.

[Alcarin]

That's the thing though. The elves and men are in good standing with each other before the Bo5A, but they don't always fight together. When Dale is destroyed and Lake-town attacked by Smaug, the elves aren't rushing to the humans aid. After the Bo5A is over, I am sure the humans and elves went their separate ways. They didn't all go back home together and live as one group. The goblins and wargs on the other hand are ALWAYS seen together. You never hear or see Wargs in the Hobbit or LotR without orcs accompanying them. I will say in the Hobbit they seem to be more sentient beings where as by the time LotR roles around they are little more than mounts.

Ok just a minute..... are we taking movies for cannon or not? In books wargs made plans with GOBLINS (not orcs) to raid the village when the unlikely event interfered (death of Goblin king) Gundabad orcs are entirely different thing there....

to me it depends what point do we start looking at...... I just dont see how (per book) wargs goblins and orcs could be 1 army...... the reasons all 3 came to Erebor is not similar.... me and elves had more similar interests that got them to Erebor than Goblins and Orcs.....(per book)

Orcs were sent by Sauron and Goblins and wargs came because the Goblin king was killed, I doubt goblins (and wargs) would've came if the Goblin king would stay alive, that death was the motive.

Just like men would've not come if Smaug did not assault Lake Town, it just happened that Elves wanted gold aswell (greed?)

[BrickBob Studpants]

I'll throw this in the room in order to distract from the five armies discussion ( ): Maybe certain things were left out due to the fact that the sets were apparently already finished in late February and they thus didn't have time to update them (e.g. the rams, Beorn or Bolg). We know that Bolg's design changed quite late in the game, however not too late for the console versions of the videogame to be accurate but keep in mind that the videogame versions are much easier to design of course since you don't have to account for molds that are quite time-consuming to produce for real minifigs Same goes for Beorn, we don't know for sure when exactly his bear version was finalized. This of course doesn't excuse the lack of generic soldiers, but there's plenty of other potential reasons for that which have already been discussed

[phanstasm]

Is the Lake Town Attack really only $30? Then they really could have skipped The Lonely Mountain, and put Smaug in Lake Town Attack. That would have made the Lake Town Attack price about $60, right? That would make it much easier for kids and everyone else to get Smaug than the $130 set he's in now. Plus that would have made for more of a complete Lake Town Attack scene. Then you would have Bard, the Windlance, and Smaug in one set.

Then they'd have a fourth slot free, and they could have made an army builder set, as many have suggested.

I still don't understand why they made a $130 set for a dying line. They're ending the line because of poor sales, right? So why make such an expensive set? Better to make something cheaper, and something that people will buy multiples of (army builder!).

I do understand that often sets are made to meet certain price points. But is a $130 set really a good idea for a line that's ending because of poor sales?

Edited August 14, 2014 by phanstasm

[Blakstone]

We don't really know how well any line sells. LEGO does not share that information though there are hints in the yearly Shareholders report. Everything else is speculation and we do that very well here.

The Hobbit line concludes this year as the media that helps promote it also ends this year.

[Lancethecat]

I feel the same way about the sets in this theme as I do about the Hobbit movies: they had all the materials they needed to make great things, and they did deliver most of the time, but sometimes, it seemed that they went out of their own way to anger fans and screw things up.

That being said, I'm glad that LEGO was able to acquire the Hobbit license and make these sets. That Lake-Town Attack looks especially nice.

[Darth Caedus]

So now the wait is on to find out what the last few unknown sets will be ... the polybags. I'm expecting one or two if like the other series. Fingers crossed for minifigs not already in the boxed sets.

You are quite right. Personally, there is only one way Lego scrapes out of this catastrophe with their dignity vaguely intact: an Iron Hills Dwarf polybag. Honestly, that's the lowest-priority armybuilder of the Big Three we needed from BoFA (an armored Elf taking maximum precedence obviously, followed by a proper armored Dol Guldur Orc), but getting it would be something, at least. The Laketown Soldier polybag was one of Lego's few wise maneuvers in the latter half of their Middle-Earth line - I know I bought over a dozen of those. An Iron Hills Dwarf could use Dain's helmet, hopefully with a different or removed plume, if the plume is in fact detachable.

If an IHD poly cam with a ridable ram as well, then, heh, I'd stand up an cheer. But that's a pipe dream.

I guess the only other potentially acceptable poly would be an Orc with the new hair. Not really that desirable if it's the same hunter-orc type print, but if it was a DG-style print, that'd be another matter entirely.

[AFOLguy1970]

Yes, 79018 seems "overpriced", but I think it looks worth it. Yes, 79016 and 79017 should have had Bolg and Beorn, but most kids won't already have Azog and will want to recreate Thorin's final battle and I'm sure LEGO wanted to include each major faction from PJ's Battle of five armies and sacrificed the bear for an eagle. And yes, generic soldiers would have been nice to have, but frankly, these films are about the named

characters. If I were still a kid, I'd rather have Bard than a generic man or whatever. And if I were about nine, then I most likely WOULDN'T own the Lake-town set. I'd probably be saving all my hard-earned money for the eventual Smaug set.

(Sorry for the extra-long post. I just had a lot that I really wanted to say.)

You bring some interesting points to the discussion, but here is where I must disagree

Both this statement and Lego's endgame strategy for the Hobbit seem contradictory. You say a kid would not have bought DGB for Azog, but would be willing to save for the $130 set with Smaug? I just do not buy it. While I agree that older kids are more the audience (movies are too violent for young ones), it seems like too many people assume they would be happy getting the same thing over and over again because it is their favorite character. My 7 year old had this to say upon hearing Legolas was going to be in another set "Dont we already have him?" Since one movie comes out each year, kids have at least that period of time to try and acquire the sets they wish to purchase. Of course if they are lucky, they get some or even all as gifts. Unfortunately, many kids have very limited resources or poor parents, so they may have to settle for what they can afford. It seems like sometimes Lego halfway acknowledges that we do not need another (insert name here) in the set or wave. We FINALLY got a wave without the mandatory Gandalf, and you know his role is crucial to the final film. Yet, they still felt the need to squeeze in Legolas and Tauriel into valuable slots. If kids really drool over these two, then they probably have the Mirkwood Spiders set and really do not need this guy in BOFA. And I find it downright cruel that Laketown would have Bard and a windlance, but no Smaug. While you may be able to save $130 for the big Erebor set, for many parents and kids, this will be out of reach. Heck, I am not going to have an easy time putting this in my budget. Any kid who wants to reenact the whole incident at Laketown will have to pay $160 plus tax. Ouch. Simply moving Smaug to Laketown would have made Erebor and Smaug more affordable at the same time.

Actually, the reaction to the final wave is not really overwhelmingly positive or negative. Most people love the Witch King Battle set, and Laketown is at least accepted as a decent set in the overall sense. Lonely Mountain gets a lot of raves over Smaug and lots of rants over the price. BOFA is the real stinker, perhaps not so much the fact it is not an army builder, but that Lego could have really put some thought into the character selection and made better choices. This was a golden opportunity to insert new characters into the mix. After all, with three Dol Guldur sets meant to be combined, two Lake Town sets which are meant to complement one another, and one of the Lake Town sets being meant to be purchased with Lonely Mountain to create the final Smaug scene, does Lego not expect you to buy other sets to complement the scene? You have four armored dwarves in the Lonely Mountain set (Two of which did not appear in the gold smelting scene). We all know they are meant to be used In BOFA since no dwarf would dare to pick a fight with Smaug with armor and an axe. BOFA could have still been heavy in main characters, but been so much better. I would have omitted Bard (keep him in Laketown), Azog, and Legolas since they already appear in other complementary sets. If you can buy Smaug and Bard in two different sets, then surely you can get Azog and Thorin in two different sets. Instead of Azog, have Bolg. Instead of Legolas, either have an armored elf, or armored King Thranduil. Trade in Bard for an Iron Hill dwarf or a generic human. Even a mithril Bilbo would have been better.

The sad thing about BOFA is that all I need is Dain in order to recreate Lego's rendition of the BOFA right now, If I can get Gimli to stand in for him, no need to wait to October.

Edited August 14, 2014 by AFOLguy1970

[The Real Walkers]

I was gone for a few days, and I miss this! People, tell me, do they look good?

Edited August 14, 2014 by The Real Walkers

[Deathleech]

I might missed that, but when and where did PJ categorically state the five armies 'The Battle of the Five Armies' named after are dwarves, elves, men, orcs and eagles?

Apparently he did so in an Empire Magazine interview. I haven't read the piece myself, another poster was talking about it.

Same goes for Beorn, we don't know for sure when exactly his bear version was finalized.

The rams and even Bolg I may buy this for, but not Beorn. I remember seeing that long theatrical poster with him standing over Gandalf in his bear form which was for the AUJ film two years ago. Maybe he wasn't shown exactly the same there as he ended up looking, but he was close enough. Lego also had the bear mold from City done quite awhile ago, this could have sufficed as bear Beorn. A simple new print on it is all it would have took and we know prints are fairly cheap and easy for Lego to do.

I do understand that often sets are made to meet certain price points. But is a $130 set really a good idea for a line that's ending because of poor sales?

Lego hasn't done a $130 priced Middle-Earth set for some time. The last two waves only had a $100 set and a $70 set as the most expensive. I would say it's time they hit that price point, even if sales may not be so hot. The waves are fairly small at only 4 sets each so I am sure a bigger set is acceptable.

So now the wait is on to find out what the last few unknown sets will be ... the polybags. I'm expecting one or two if like the other series. Fingers crossed for minifigs not already in the boxed sets.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lego opts not to do any polybags this time around. They didn't do any for the second LotR wave so polybags aren't a guarantee, especially if the Middle-Eath themes really are selling as poorly as we think. Also I know Lego can mix and match existing pieces to create a "new" polybag like they did with the Mirkwood Elf, but what are they going to use for an Iron Hill Dwarf? Any dwarf torso or head would come from a unique character. That would be like throwing Aragorn's head on a Gondor Soldier, I don't see Lego doing it. I think if we DO get a polybag, the most likely candidates would be the orc and either Thorin or Bard.

[atreyu2112]

Look at the right upper corner of this photo, seems like Iron Hill helmets with sort of spike/mohawk/plume (?) on the top, so it still might be possible to use Dain's helmet as decent footsoldier helmet, even if the mohawk thingie is not removable.

Wait a minute! Look between Azog and Thorin right under the Eye ... those aren't eagles, those are BATS!!!

I want a big Lego bat damnit.

Regardless, like I said ... there should be an add-on set to TBotFA that includes armored Dwarf, Elf & Orc warrioirs and a second Dale building structure to combine with the other one. Because if there was this set I think there would be a LOT less complaining. Maybe we'll be surprised with one.

I REALLY hope we get 2 poly bags ... Iron Hill Dwarf & Armored Elf Warrioir or Armored Orc Warrior

I will say this, I am WAY more happy with the overall Hobbit collection than I am with Lord of the Rings. I would say for my liking I am at 4.5 stars out of 5, because honestly, the Five Armies set is the ONLY set out of all of them I am really not happy with.

Lord of the Rings ... no Balrog, armored Witch King, Fell Beast, Eowyn, Faramir, Gondor Soldiers, Treebeard, Minas Tirith or Osgiliath structure sets - This just makes me SO sad.

[bachamn]

So the disappointment in these isn't that Lego gave us bad sets. These seem like really good Bo5A movie sets. It's that you have wound yourselves and your expectations up so much that they have as usual exceeded any practical realities. (I guess that's why they call this genre "Fantasy")

[BrickBob Studpants]

@bachamn: Haha I agree with you and Faefrost, the sets could never have lived up to the expectations we've been building up for the past 8 months

@Deathleech: You're right, I completely forgot about that poster, Beorn was clearly visible on that one Maybe they thought the current bear mold wouldn't do it justice despite new printing and dropped it altogether?

[Wardancer]

Shopping List:

- 8 Elronds

- Galadriel

- an eagle if it really is dark brown

- 8 Tauriels if money flows

- Smaug

Is there not a single horse in this series? A battle of 4-6 armies and no horse?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Wardancer

[Deathleech]

After all, with three Dol Guldur sets meant to be combined, two Lake Town sets which are meant to complement one another, and one of the Lake Town sets being meant to be purchased with Lonely Mountain to create the final Smaug scene, does Lego not expect you to buy other sets to complement the scene? You have four armored dwarves in the Lonely Mountain set (Two of which did not appear in the gold smelting scene). We all know they are meant to be used In BOFA since no dwarf would dare to pick a fight with Smaug with armor and an axe. BOFA could have still been heavy in main characters, but been so much better. I would have omitted Bard (keep him in Laketown), Azog, and Legolas since they already appear in other complementary sets. If you can buy Smaug and Bard in two different sets, then surely you can get Azog and Thorin in two different sets. Instead of Azog, have Bolg. Instead of Legolas, either have an armored elf, or armored King Thranduil. Trade in Bard for an Iron Hill dwarf or a generic human. Even a mithril Bilbo would have been better.

This is so true. So Lego expects kids to buy a $130 Erebor and a $30 Lake-town set to re-inact Smaug getting shot down, but they don't expect kids to buy DGB for $70 and Bo5A for $60 (which combined are the same price as Erebor alone and still $30 cheaper than Erebor+Lake-town)? That makes no sense. I understand Lego needs to include main characters in multiple sets because kids aren't going to be able to afford every set in a wave or line, and also older sets go out of print. However, it's a harsh reality kids won't be able to get every last character in minifigure form either. I know when I was younger I missed out on getting TONS of characters from my favorite action figure lines like TMNT and Ghostbusters. And then you have the kid that only gets one Hobbit set ever. Should we stuff every set full of every main character because he can't get any other sets? Then what happens to everyone else that DOES buy every set and has 20 Legolas and Gandalfs? Where do you draw the line with including the same characters over and over?

I think generally Lego has done a very good job with their Middle-Earth themes when finding a nice balance between main characters and grunts. Gandalf is probably the only character we could have done with a little less, and even he isn't in THAT many sets when you compare it to other themes. I just think this last wave could of been truly spectacular with a little more planning. It's been said by myself and several others how this final wave could have went from mediocre to amazing and it would of required very little investment on Lego's part. All they had to do was move some things around. They could have made the largest $130 set more focused on the Bo5A and change the smelting mines build to the gates with dwarven statues. Have the current four dwarf line up in it, plus Thorin and Bilbo, bear Beorn, one generic orc in armor, Bolg, and armored Thranduil. Then make the $30 Lake-town set into a $60-70 set, keep all the minifigures it had except give us the SDCC Bard and keep the build, just add Smaug. Take the $30 slot and give us Dain, an Iron Hill Dwarf, 2 armored Elves, and 3 armored orcs with a small Dale ruin piece. The large molded creature could be a ram, but if too expensive another eagle or warg in a different color would more than suffice I am sure. Heck, Lego even could of nixed some of the dwarves in the Erebor set (except Fili and Kili), and had one or no orcs in Lake-town to save some money. There. Lego literally would of had to do 3-4 new prints this way and MAYBE 2-3 molds. Really though, the elven helm could replace Thorin's crown (Thorin could use his normal hair), and the orc helm could replace the hair (or even use an existing helm from a previous Castle them). This would of taken minimal effort on Lego's part, made more sense, and made this last wave go from a 4-5 on a scale of 1-10 to a solid 8.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Deathleech

[Blazej_Holen]

Shopping List:

- 8 Elronds

- Galadriel

- an eagle if it really is dark brown

- 8 Tauriels if money flows

- Smaug

Is there not a single horse in this series? A battle of 4-6 armies and no horse?

Nobody there rides a horse. In movie there will be battle rams, but Laketown folks dont ride horses, they are fisherman, and elves, are more likely on foot or hiden in the trees. So why should be horses in thath battle? Never the less, battle is on slopes of Lonely mountain, not a good terrain for horses dont you think? :)

[nymmerod]

- an eagle if it really is dark brown

The eagle is not dark brown. The photo is just dark. If you look closely you can see that the wings have 2 tones of brown like the ones we already have.

[atreyu2112]

This is what I really want to see in the back of the instructions:

IN 2015...

[Norgrimm]

Has anyone noticed yet that there is a shadowy Smaug on the 'Attack on Lake-town' box art? (above and a bit to the left of Bain)

Now isn't that ironic...

(On a less depressing note: to me it looks as if the left orc is shooting a fish at Tauriel "Go, herring of death!" )

[Mahtion]

Exactly. For the record, I actually ENJOY play features most of the time. I like it when the set has a lot of playibility. I love minifigures, and when the models look beautiful AND have some good play features that's what makes a set good in my opinion. I think LEGO's sets (especially licensed themes) Do this well. They strike up a balance between the three, and you know what? Even though AFOLs are NOT LEGO's target demographic, I think they do their best to market their products to children like they should, but they also try to please us at the same time. They have to find a way to make both audiences happy, but when they slip up slightly with the figures, or put something little in to please their main customers ( For example, a tiny catapult) they always get torn apart by our communities. And honestly, I'm not entirely sure I like the AFOL community around these sets. With the normal LotR community, the fanbase is split between those who like the films and those who think they are terrible. Then the film fanbase is split between those who like both franchises and those who hate The Hobbit. But even with LEGO LotR and The Hobbit, which I thought had excellent sets and figures, people still get frustrated by LEGO because they do what probably makes the most sense from the business standpoint. When I wad younger, I fell in love with LEGO. NOT just the system or the toys, but the company itself. I never really minded the mistakes they made, because I knew there was always a reason behind them. I hate how many people are saying LEGO put extremely little time into their sets, or that the designers were "high", or even that the sets were done by their "accounting firm". That just...I can't stand it. It is my life's dream to become a set designer, and I hate thinking that however well I think I'll have balanced my set's figures, play features, build and appeal to both AFOLs and children alike, there are going to be AFOLs cursing my name because I didn't include one certain minifigure in the set.

Yes, 79018 seems "overpriced", but I think it looks worth it. Yes, 79016 and 79017 should have had Bolg and Beorn, but most kids won't already have Azog and will want to recreate Thorin's final battle and I'm sure LEGO wanted to include each major faction from PJ's Battle of five armies and sacrificed the bear for an eagle. And yes, generic soldiers would have been nice to have, but frankly, these films are about the named

characters. If I were still a kid, I'd rather have Bard than a generic man or whatever. And if I were about nine, then I most likely WOULDN'T own the Lake-town set. I'd probably be saving all my hard-earned money for the eventual Smaug set.

(Sorry for the extra-long post. I just had a lot that I really wanted to say.)

You make some valid points but as a kid would you honestly want 2 identical Bards or a third Legolas? Also why would kids like many of the sets Lego has made for the Hobbit? Many are dull and uninspiring. They can't please kids and afols, but at least at it's core make it exciting and have elements like Guardians of the Galaxy or Star Wars that entice kids to play with them. It's not about the minfig selection entirely, it's more than that, it's chiefly about set design. I agree many of the sets look ok or good, but do Lego designers want a base passing grade or a spectacular one?

Out of the last hobbit waves, I only purchased a handful of sets and spent my money on Star Wars because it's just more well designed and the effort put into it can be seen. Out of the last wave I will probably get Erebor because it does have the wow factor that kids would love and Witch King Battle but for Lake Town Attack and BoFA I may not get them, still waiting to see full Dales ruins designs. Also as a designer, of course you don't want to be criticized but seriously if you don't want to be judged or have your creations assessed then you shouldn't be one professionally.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Mahtion

[coolguy2323]

Can someone pm me pics or link to them? Thanks in advance.

I request this as well, too bad I didn't see the pics. If anyone has them can you PM me pics or a link to them? Thanks! :D

Really? Another Tauriel? What about the characters that are actually from Tolkien, like Bolg! And another Legolas too? I am dissapointed in the minifig choice for that set.

Oh, and thanks to the pic OP! :)

Edited August 14, 2014 by coolguy2323

[Mahtion]

I request this as well, too bad I didn't see the pics. If anyone has them can you PM me pics or a link to them? Thanks! :D

Really? Another Tauriel? What about the characters that are actually from Tolkien, like Bolg! And another Legolas too? I am dissapointed in the minifig choice for that set.

Oh, and thanks to the pic OP! :)

That's what irks me as well! I don't mind the inclusion of Legolas or Tauriel and I actually supported it. However, when these characters detract from the importance and screen time of established characters like Thranduil, that is upsetting. I know it's not lego's fault for Legolas prominence in marketing and merchandise but WB in this regard.

[coolguy2323]

But don't get me wrong, I will probably get all the sets, I just love Middle-Earth too much. Ya, I wish LEGO would have done it differently, but when I was a kid I dreamed of having Middle-Earth LEGO's so that I am even having this discussion it was a dream come true! I will have to see pics before passing judgement but I am excited, and especially for Dol Guldur and Erebor!

Oh, and lol @ me complaining about Legolas when I don't even have one of his sets yet lol.

EDIT:

Finally saw the pics! Thanks to @kevkipo's Flickr page!

Witch-King: Like it, will complete my Dol Guldur diorama nicely.

BOFA: Not sure, need a clearer image. I wish they had given us the gates of Erebor here though, as well as Bolg and Beorn in bear form.

Lake-Town: OK, nothing spectacular, but when put with the other Lake-Town it will look pretty cool.

Erebor: I love this set, even without the gates and statues.

Good wave Lego, not perfect, but still good! Here's to hoping for a D2C Minas Tirith next summer!

Edited August 14, 2014 by coolguy2323