Are Classic Hull Pieces Juniorized?

[Berry Syedow]

One of the major draws of the original pirates theme was the fabulous ships that sailed the Seven LEGO Seas! TLC created two new types of hulls to accommodate medium and large ships. The hull pieces consisted of a

[Dukesc]

One of the major draws of the original pirates theme was the fabulous ships that sailed the Seven LEGO Seas! TLC created two new types of hulls to accommodate medium and large ships. The hull pieces consisted of a

[Mister Phes]

We've debated this before, although the topic was slightly different and it wasn't Pirate oriented. I think the topic was along the lines of "at what point did juniorisation begin"?

I think juniorisation isn't strictly the size of the piece, its more towards how useful that piece is in other creations. Given that we've seen countless ship MOCs using hull pieces I'd say they're too useful to be <insert that tiresome argument>.

[Bonaparte]

I agree with the arguments of the Duke.

It would be better if all the hull-sections (bow,stern and mid-sections) were cut in the middle.

This way it would be possible to use them to make larger ships.

Another disadvantage of the standard bow and stern sections is the height. This puts some limitations of the colors of your ship because at a certain height you want to introduce another color (e.g. a yellow banner) over the entire length of the ship. For me it would be best if the height of the stern/bow sections was the same as the mid-sections.

I think that you best start ship-building using the standard hull, but after a while, when you get more experience, you will probably prefer to use a brick-build hull.

[Hobbes]

I think juniorisation isn't strictly the size of the piece, its more towards how useful that piece is in other creations. Given that we've seen countless ship MOCs using hull pieces I'd say they're too useful to be <insert that tiresome argument>.

Aaaawww, that's what I wanted to say. I was so happy to participate in a non-administrative Pirates thread for quite some time, but you don't even let me! :-P ;-)

PS: I can't help it, that winking smiley looks like a cat...

[Grrr]

They are juniourised in that they limit creativity - but there is no other way of achieving a nice look without going into massive part counts.

Only recently have I actually recieved the new hull pieces, as a child I always brick built (nice bright red ships for the Soldiers), and the results were nice, but blocky. The thing is that I would never have been able to build ships as large with the prefab hulls. The width of the big hull sections is still often to narrow, but more importantly, it is not possible to get to 12+ stud heights with coloured bands easily with the prefabs. Particularly as most prefabs are brown, and there are still very few brown bricks (comparitavely).

Ideally I would like to see the middle sections halfed so that they can be as wide or as narrow as necessary, and then low bow and stern pieces (once again halfed, allowing one to brick build the rudder and front), and then have 1 brick high wedge pieces which stack neatly on top of these.

Of course - this requires a lot of specialist pieces so is unlikely to be a solution for TLG.

In the meantime, I think brick/plate hulls are the tidiest look (though I haven't built one in a while).

[Mister Phes]

Aaaawww, that's what I wanted to say. I was so happy to participate in a non-administrative Pirates thread for quite some time, but you don't even let me! :-P ;-)

You're too slow Mister Hobbes, you must be getting old :-P

[El Bucanero]

I wouldn't say they are <insert that tiresome argument>. But I do like to say something about how useful they are. You see, the hull pieces lego gives us, are perfectly fine to build smaller ships, like my ship, the Red Peril. But it get's thougher and thougher if you make bigger ships. I'm already having problems with my ship the Acheron.

The mid pieces aren't such a big problem, since you can make them wider with invert slopes. You can't do that with bow and stern sections. Those are the problem if you ask me. Another problem is the historic accuracy. To start with: The stern, you can "widen" it with plates, in order to get more windows on it. But it's damn diffucult to get more than 4 windows on it without making it look extremely wide. The problem with historic accuracy is, most frigates (like they are build on 5-6 mid sections in LEGO) usually had more windows than 4 (mostly 6).

Second: Invert sloping.

first, look at this pic:

Click here to view the picture!( I know It's big but I think that might be necessary)

At the right, you can see when the waterline starts. that's before it starts sloping down. You always have the sloping on LEGO Prefab hulls. On the other hand, The LEGO ships that go straight down without sloping look a bit blocky to me.

Third: (don't know how to say that in English)

In the same pic as above, you can also see the ship from the top.

There you can see it's not completly straight. LEGO Prefab hulls force you to make the ship completly straight.(Note: The Flying Dutchman is probably a fluyt. Those tend to get very thin at the stern)

Fourth: Broadness.

That has been mentioned before in this thread...

Mr Tiber

[Capn Frank]

One of the major draws of the original pirates theme was the fabulous ships that sailed the Seven LEGO Seas! TLC created two new types of hulls to accommodate medium and large ships.

...

I would say that they're not medium and large hulls but small and smaller or medium and small X-D

...

I think juniorisation isn't strictly the size of the piece, its more towards how useful that piece is in other creations. Given that we've seen countless ship MOCs using hull pieces I'd say they're too useful to be <insert that tiresome argument>.

I agree with Mr. P also *y*

The 4+ hulls are definitely <insert that tiresome argument> though :-X

I think Legeaux has done the most successful job of using this hull.

I was thinking of getting this hull until i saw my brother's up close. That changed my mind real quick.

You're very limited on coloring and shape of a vessel with this hull compared to the hulls we're discussing.

....

first, look at this pic:

Click here to view the picture!( I know It's big but I think that might be necessary)

At the right, you can see when the waterline starts. that's before it starts sloping down.

...

Mr. Tiber,

You have a pic like that of the black pearl? *wub*

Third: (don't know how to say that in English)

...

Hmm, yup it's first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and stuff :-||

X-D

P

[El Bucanero]

Mr. Tiber,

You have a pic like that of the black pearl?*wub*

Indeed I do! I decided to use the Flying Dutchman plan because it look a bit more organized...

Here it is: Click to view the pic.

Hmm, yup it's first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and stuff :-||

X-D

P

Yes I know that, but you might noticed, after the first subject(I wrote:"to start with") there's "The stern"

And when I second there's: invert sloping. And after third, I wanted to say something, but: (I don't know how to say that in English) Capiche?

It was about the sides of a ship being rounded...

Mr Tiber

[Capn Frank]

Indeed I do! I decided to use the Flying Dutchman plan because it look a bit more organized...

Here it is: Click to view the pic.

...

Thanx Mr Tiber!!

I've been searching the net like crazy for that exact type of pic of the black pearl.

It's getting close to the point where i'll have enough bricks to make a MF scaled Black Pearl.

Though, i'm going to have to destroy the Dame du Loup :'-(

But i'm going to wait a while though :-$ .

[El Bucanero]

Thanx Mr Tiber!!

I've been searching the net like crazy for that exact type of pic of the black pearl.

It's getting close to the point where i'll have enough bricks to make a MF scaled Black Pearl.

Though, i'm going to have to destroy the Dame du Loup :'-(

But i'm going to wait a while though :-$ .

That would be a shame, but you decide!

Would that Black Pearl be equal in size to the Dame Du loup.

And what I wonder is, why would you destroy a white ship if you want to build a Black ship?

Mr Tiber

[Mister Phes]

I agree with the arguments of the Duke.It would be better if all the hull-sections (bow,stern and mid-sections) were cut in the middle.This way it would be possible to use them to make larger ships.

How would it be better if they were slip in the middle? You couldn't make the bows wider this way otherwise they be flat at the front.

I've been pondering how a piece similiar to this upside-down would work as a hull piece for larger ships:

[Capn Frank]

That would be a shame, but you decide!

Would that Black Pearl be equal in size to the Dame Du loup.

And what I wonder is, why would you destroy a white ship if you want to build a Black ship?

Mr Tiber

the bottom deck is pretty much all black, plus a lot of the interior of the bottom deck is also black.

and the black pearl would probably be a lot shorter than the dame du loup. but maybe close to the same width though.

it'll be a while before i start construction anyways.

P

[Norrington]

One of the major draws of the original pirates theme was the fabulous ships that sailed the Seven LEGO Seas! TLC created two new types of hulls to accommodate medium and large ships. The hull pieces consisted of a

[exo attack]

I think they are <insert that tiresome argument>, and brick built ones are FAAAR better. This is why I am usng a brick built hull for my WIP MOC.

[blueandwhite]

There's no question that the hull pieces are a form of juniorization. The same can be said of castle walls, and any other predominantly pre-fab brick. Of course, at times juniorization is necessary. Afterall, to purchase a comprable set with a brick-built hull would have been severely cost-prohibitive.

Juniorization isn't necessarily a bad thing when only a few elements are <insert that tiresome argument>. It becomes increasingly so when most or all of the elements become so simple that it prohibits any real possibility of MOCing. This didn't happen until the Pirate line was six feet under. Pretty much, the years 1997 through 2002 mark the worst of the juniorization craze.

[Mister Phes]

I think they are <insert that tiresome argument>, and brick built ones are FAAAR better. This is why I am usng a brick built hull for my WIP MOC.

Where can we see this WIP MOC?

[exo attack]

I am in the middle of uploading pics right now!

[El Bucanero]

I am in the middle of uploading pics right now!

That's good! *y* Is it a big ship or is it a small ship? Merchant ship or warship? Well, as soon as the pictures arrive we shall see! ;-)

Do you think this topic needs a poll Berry??

Mr Tiber

[Capn Frank]

...

HMMM... Have you EVER considered buying more black parts on bricklink or pick a brick, or even making due with at you have :-ll (Without destroying the Dam-de-loupe?

i get as many as i can on BL, but not too much money 8-|

college kind of limits my funding at the moment.

[Berry Syedow]

Do you think this topic needs a poll Berry??

Mr Tiber

Eh, I

[hans-thegreat]

Indeed I do! I decided to use the Flying Dutchman plan because it look a bit more organized...

Here it is: Click to view the pic.

Yes I know that, but you might noticed, after the first subject(I wrote:"to start with") there's "The stern"

And when I second there's: invert sloping. And after third, I wanted to say something, but: (I don't know how to say that in English) Capiche?

It was about the sides of a ship being rounded...

Mr Tiber

What i think you mean is the fact that ships were modeled after fish, round at the bow, tapering to the stern.

The ships were kind of like oval bowls I guess...

[Guest Mr. Cameron]

i have discovered(but not yet used) a way to make lego hulls look more round, if you take a small mid-section and attach it to the bottom of a large midsection the hull will look more round, i don't think it looks good to do this with bow and stern pieces though.

[Berry Syedow]

i have discovered(but not yet used) a way to make lego hulls look more round, if you take a small mid-section and attach it to the bottom of a large midsection the hull will look more round, i don't think it looks good to do this with bow and stern pieces though.

This is an interesting idea, but the ship's decreased base might be too narrow and create stability issues. There's also the fact that large ships are meant to sink into the water quite a bit.

Still, thank you for the interesting input. *y*

Just to get the discussion rolling again, here's a question for you guys:

Would you be in favor of some type of conceivable brick built hull? A type that could be built up as well as widened? Or are you quite content with the prefab hulls, and would rather TLC look into designing a larger version to accommodate larger ship MOCs?