Eurobricks Mafia Day One: Let the metagaming begin!

[CMP]

So the scum took out a completely inactive townie with a chainsaw and wearing a skull mask, and the psycho killer dropped a chandelier on Cecilie? Just making sure.

If we don't have a vig, it's completely reasonable to think we have a therapist to turn the psycho into one. Thinking about it, in a game like this, that would make sense. Since the scum numbers will rack up fast with one team purely recruiting, a psycho killer would be more beneficial than usual (though not by much at all) to the town. I mean, it's obviously not as good if we don't have a vig ourselves at the start, but if we don't, then yes, I"d say there's a very good chance we at least have a therapist.

[Piratedave84]

I offered another option for the mayor vote. Your vote for Flare was rather random, but perhaps it's even more worrying that there were a couple of people who were really quick to agree with you.

I suggested this:

I propose that we elect someone which is not one of our usual town leaders (Hinck, Shadows, Etc.. we all know who they are) and instead opt to elect a player like Alopex, Flare, Darthpotatoe or someone of the likes. Thoughts?

However why he picked Flare .... I can;t say ... random guess?

I don't think all the recruiters are able to recruit. Just one a night. Maybe only one of them is a recruiter and the others have investigative roles to find out who is and who isn't recruitable. They may be called Recruiters, but really they're a group of people working to one goal: recruit people. Like wise for the killing side. Each side has roles tailored to their namesakes, including their title roles. I agree that they can probably only recruit one person a night, whether they are 3 or two...I don't know...like I said, plus/minus one person. But that's the number I'd place it at. Around 5-6 scum total. Then there is the psycho, so that's 6-7 non-town folk, at least.

Interesting ... still it was said they could recruit quicker than usual; I am expecting more than 1 conversion per night!

---

A lot of people seem convinced there is a psycho rather than an SK ... Why? What brings you to believe the killer is a psycho and not an SK? do we have tangible evidence of this?

[Alopex]

Two townies dead!

So, you do make some good points there about the pics and how can we figure things out. I'll take a stab at it and say I think Cecilie was killed by the psycho. I think the psycho is someone who knows how smart she is and has played closely with her. Scum night one kills are usually metagamed for another reason or not metagamed at all, depending on who the team is, which makes me think the killing scum team is low on "veterans", to put it bluntly.

I personally agree. Although the scumdums could kill Cecillie for being a threat, they wouldn't take the risk of killing her, for if she would have been scum, she would have been a valuable ally.

Since the Serial Killer/Psycho doesn't care about the allegiance of the deceased player, it would be more logical for him/her to do it.

[Flare]

Well well well, voting for me as mayor eh? Its because of my sweet hair, obviously. Or because I'm a noob and you stupidly trust me for that fact. Well my friends, I cannot recommend myself as mayor since I have not had much more experience besides being a community organizer once, but I appreciate your votes of faith. Trust me, me as mayor will bring my own will fairness to be ensured in the game.

Although I feel slightly worried. Why me, Hincks? I mean, I'm not the only non-superduperwellknown player playing in this game. Your vote started an avalanche of votes for me, it seems. Perhaps you started the voting for me because you're trying to get on my good side? Eh? Well you're totally ont my good side never going to succeed with that scheme! I'm way ahead of you! Scummo!

Thats all

Two townies dead!

Crying for the dead, won't help son.

[Alopex]

A lot of people seem convinced there is a psycho rather than an SK ... Why? What brings you to believe the killer is a psycho and not an SK? do we have tangible evidence of this?

Because of def's mention of the word psycho. Although he said psycho killer, so it could be either.

[Flare]

I offered another option for the mayor vote. Your vote for Flare was rather random, but perhaps it's even more worrying that there were a couple of people who were really quick to agree with you.

Although what I'm about to say might sound strange, but perhaps I was chosen to be mayor because he knew I would be easy eliminated and therefore a new mayor would have to be chosen on day two...

[CMP]

A lot of people seem convinced there is a psycho rather than an SK ... Why? What brings you to believe the killer is a psycho and not an SK? do we have tangible evidence of this?

I was under the impression they're the same thing. How are they different?

[Scouty]

Interesting ... still it was said they could recruit quicker than usual; I am expecting more than 1 conversion per night!

It might be not too unreasonable to suggest that with the more they recruit, the more they can recruit...if that makes any sense. But that would be more down the road, I would not expect them to be able to recruit more than one person in the first few nights.

Another thought, the number of recruitable townies could be quite low, like only 5 of us out of 19-20.

I'm pretty confident in voting for Flare after seeing his reply. I just want to know, from Hinck, how he chose Flare.

Which, by the way, scary as killers are and they most certainly be dealt with...I feel going after the recruiters (however on earth we can do that) would be a higher priority than a killer. Say if we had a choice from lynching a recruiter and a killer, probably a recruiter would be better. Why? Well, a killer simply kills one of us and we're just down one more person, down one more townie. However, if one of us is recruited, not only are we down one more person, we're going up against one more person. Limiting that ability, I think, would be a better strategy, in whatever way we can accomplish it. Of course, if we catch a killer and there is not a recruiter we've caught, death to the killer, then! There's also always relying on the blocker to block a suspected recruiter/killer, too.

[Piratedave84]

It might be not too unreasonable to suggest that with the more they recruit, the more they can recruit...if that makes any sense. But that would be more down the road, I would not expect them to be able to recruit more than one person in the first few nights.

This is very plausible, the more momentum they gain, the more they can recruit .... could be, could very well be!

...I feel going after the recruiters (however on earth we can do that) would be a higher priority than a killer. Say if we had a choice from lynching a recruiter and a killer, probably a recruiter would be better.

I agree with this, if at all possible we should try and out the recruiters so as to eliminate the possibility of them inflating the ranks of the scum team before it's too late; we have to act quickly and explore every suspicion early.

I'm curious to see if we kill a scum, will their affiliation within the scum team be revealed? Will we find out if the person is a killer or a recruiter?

[CorneliusMurdock]

I think the killers could go either way. I don't think either of them could be a vig but we don't have enough information to conclude which is which and I don't see how the information would really help us today anyhow. We'll have to stop them both eventually.

Unlike Scouty, I'm not the least bit reassured by Flare's statement. Whether he's a patsy or scum, only time will tell. I still think I'd be a better mayor.

[Piratedave84]

Last minutes plans have come up; I have to excuse myself for about 48 hours. I am going to a cottage with limited/no internet access; I will definitely be back to vote and be back before Sunday (Eastern time).

I apologize for my absence;

[Hinckley]

I don't see a problem in suggesting to the scum that they should help locate the psycho (which is not the same thing as a standard SK, but I know you know that).

Well, a psycho I think would have a counterpart to stop him, a therapist who needs to find and cure him so that he can then be part of the town. Additionally, maybe, this is just a wild megablocks guess so don't put too much stock in it, maybe the psycho is our vigilante but not until he is cured. Why wait until day 6 for all the crazy theories when we can start now?

So, you do make some good points there about the pics and how can we figure things out. I'll take a stab at it and say I think Cecilie was killed by the psycho. I think the psycho is someone who knows how smart she is and has played closely with her. Scum night one kills are usually metagamed for another reason or not metagamed at all, depending on who the team is, which makes me think the killing scum team is low on "veterans", to put it bluntly.

I'm at work and I've mixed up all my quotes here since I keep clicking away. Anyway, you've said you know what the psycho is and then you guess that it must mean there's a psychiatrist. Psycho doesn't exist on mafia wiki and the psychiatrist seems to be associated with the serial killer with no differentiation for psycho. You're being all kinds of weird. I had another point but this response is being forced into my 10 minute break now, so I'll just have to hope it comes back to me later.

I think def implied that not all townies are convertible, which would also fit with the two scum sides having no way to confirm each other.

I seem to remember him saying there were only certain ones that could be converted... I'll take a look for it.

The quick voting for Flare is a little suspicious to me, especially considering unvoting for mayor is not allowed.

I forgot about the unvoting, but if you must know I went down through the list of players and chose the most unfamiliar name on there, assuming that he wouldn't be a threat to the Scum and less likely to be taken out at night. If other people follow me, that's there perogative.

I don't trust any of you,

Oh no, you don't! Whatever will we do? ... Why am I being such a dick?

So the scum took out a completely inactive townie with a chainsaw and wearing a skull mask, and the psycho killer dropped a chandelier on Cecilie? Just making sure.

That is just one theory.

If we don't have a vig, it's completely reasonable to think we have a therapist to turn the psycho into one.

How is that completely reasonable? It's not very common. I've read where it's possible but never experienced it, so this being a Eurobricks Mafia game I do not find that completely reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

Thinking about it, in a game like this, that would make sense. Since the scum numbers will rack up fast with one team purely recruiting, a psycho killer would be more beneficial than usual (though not by much at all) to the town. I mean, it's obviously not as good if we don't have a vig ourselves at the start, but if we don't, then yes, I"d say there's a very good chance we at least have a therapist.

I don't follow this either. Having to fight two Scum teams (on the same side) one converting those we trust while the other kills strong players (shit, how do they know which side the other will target? Ha ha! Stupid Scum teams.) and a psycho killer and we can't have a vig until the psychiatrist randomly targets him? That sounds...not right.

A lot of people seem convinced there is a psycho rather than an SK ... Why? What brings you to believe the killer is a psycho and not an SK? do we have tangible evidence of this?

There's not even a precedent for there being a difference between the two or the separate role of "pyscho" even existing.

Although I feel slightly worried. Why me, Hincks? I mean, I'm not the only non-superduperwellknown player playing in this game. Your vote started an avalanche of votes for me, it seems. Perhaps you started the voting for me because you're trying to get on my good side? Eh? Well you're totally ont my good side never going to succeed with that scheme! I'm way ahead of you! Scummo!

As I said, I chose you because I have no idea who you are and I suppose the Scum won't target you. If you're inactive, though, the serial killer may as well. I forgot we can't unvote, otherwise I might not have been so hasty. But if we have to elect a new one, so be it. It's just the tie breaker guy. What are the chances of us hitting a tie any time soon? As for getting on your good side, why the hell would I care? If I were Scum, what would it benefit me to suck up to someone I don't even know and have no frame of reference for you Mafia experience.

Oh, I hope you'll be my friend! Fruitcake.

I agree with this, if at all possible we should try and out the recruiters so as to eliminate the possibility of them inflating the ranks of the scum team before it's too late; we have to act quickly and explore every suspicion early.

I'm curious to see if we kill a scum, will their affiliation within the scum team be revealed? Will we find out if the person is a killer or a recruiter?

How? The watcher targets the most likely candidate considering they have to choose not-so-obvious targets so they don't kill and convert the same person?

Unlike Scouty, I'm not the least bit reassured by Flare's statement. Whether he's a patsy or scum, only time will tell. I still think I'd be a better mayor.

Flare's statement is asinine. All hail the mayor. Oops.

[Nightshroud99]

I think we should vote for another mayor, perhaps as others' have stated Hick and company want Flare to be Mayor. For whatever reason, the easiest way to circumvent this is to now vote for someone else.

[CMP]

That is just one theory.

How is that completely reasonable? It's not very common. I've read where it's possible but never experienced it, so this being a Eurobricks Mafia game I do not find that completely reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't follow this either. Having to fight two Scum teams (on the same side) one converting those we trust while the other kills strong players (shit, how do they know which side the other will target? Ha ha! Stupid Scum teams.) and a psycho killer and we can't have a vig until the psychiatrist randomly targets him? That sounds...not right.

I'm not saying it's out of the question, you might've missed the on the end, there. Though yes, I do think it's far more likely Mr. Chainsaw is the third party killer.

I'm very aware it's not common. Neither is this game concept. I'm pointing out that if we don't have a vig, which is a possibility considering we have a third party killer and a scum kill and there were only two kills tonight, then yes, it's reasonable to think we at least have some sort of therapist. It's also reasonable to think the vig's kill was prevented or we don't have a vig either, don't think I'm citing it as the likeliest possibility we have a therapist.

If we do not have a vig. That's the bottom line of my line of thought, that's what's been worrying me so far today. The scum have two teams, and it's not their goal to kill eachother. Throwing in a third killer role in addition to a recruiting faction doesn't seem like a good way to balance it for the townies. A role that can convert one of the two current killers seems less extreme to me. As DD points out, we'll have more information (ie, how many people were killed in the night) on this in later days, though I don't agree it's unhelpful to discuss it today.

And I stress that If.

[Dannylonglegs]

Wah! Oh noes! Obligatory 2 Town Dead statement! :emoticon:

That said, I'm sad to see CC go! I was looking forward to playing with him now that I know how fun she can be. Bye bye Culty-pall! I can't say I knew the other guy though.

Whelp, alot has happened since I went to sleep--yes, I slept during Mafia. Blame Hink. I'm still on California time thanks to him.

Aw, the Puzzle was Psycho Killer? I love The Talking Heads (as the Scum team from Forest 2 knows.) and New Wave! I would have loved to do the puzzle, but, as I said last night, the scum probably rocked it.

Ah well, time to vote for the Mayor: CorneliusMurdock. Why you ask? To start, as others would likely guess, he hasn't been voted for yet. Of course this is no indicator that he's not scum, particularly with 2 divergent scum teams out there, but a little part of me thinks that it's less likely that he's scum for that reason. I would have voted for Dave, but Cornelius seems to want it more. Secondarily, I like that he said he wouldn't sheep Hink or Shadows. As much as I love those two, I think our Mayor should be able to stand on his or her own, which I don't trust Flare to do (no offence--I don't trust myself in that respect too much either, though I aught to have learned by now.) Thirdly, I don't get the significance of voting for a lurker for the Mayor. If I'm to vote for a Mayor, I want him/her to vote. Fourthly, (or thirdly point fively, ) it doesn't matter if CM is metagame killed, because we can just vote for another Major.

Now we lost two townies last night with two kills. Going by most typical games of life, that I have read about on my fancy e-reader, there is usually a vigilante, a scum godfather, and a serial killer. The latter not always included.

Obvious information I know, however to reiterate there were only two kills last night. Seeing how Lord def mentioned a bloodthirsty killer, I'm going to assume one of the killings was a serial killer given that it's MO is killing everyone.

You're able to play Mafia Games via e-reader? I respect that. In my experience, that doesn't work too well.

As for the rest of what you've said, it actually makes allot of sense, despite what Hink and DD said in response to it. I don't know if I agree with all of it, but it does seem well reasoned. I'm glad someone mentioned that there are 2 different scum teams, because from what I could tell from the conversation going on before your comment, nobody else seemed to remember that. Your theory that what I suspect was the scum kill (the one with the chainsaw) was actually a vig could deserve some credence, for it was certainly an odd target for the scum (but not so much for a vig, as a lurker or non poster could be seen as scummy), and I think the other belongs to the psycho because of how it all transpired on the page. That said, IMO, it's more likely that the killer was Scum, as I guess it could be reasoned that they determined he was not scum due to the lack of a post last night--something a scum team would surely not allow. I certainly hope we have a vig!

So, judging by this nonsensical rambling, your definition of MO differs greatly from the real definition. You are also doing a great job of providing a long post with next to no substance. A great three paragraph summary. Ping.

Yes, someone could've been converted. Only certain people can be converted though, so it would be lucky on the part of the converting team. We hoepfully also have a vig, but why would a vig go for either one of those people?

*snip*

So, Capt. Redblade doesn't even appear to have posted in the Night Zero thread. He'd, therefore, make a great vig target, but I don't think the vig would be so sadistic and chainsaw-y. I stand by the idea that Capt Redblade makes a great serial killer target.

Great, we're doing the "Ping " thing again?

So you seem to be confused as to why Redblade would have been a Vig target, and then go on to explain why he would have made a great vig target, but that you doubt it due to the MO? The MO's morality rarely has anything to do with the perpetrator as far as I'm concerned, except that it's usually consistent. I seem to recall a certain vig from one of your games who made really sadistic death traps for his targets. Any ways, I doubt that the Psycho Killer (qu'est ce que c'est)'s kill would be brought about by the same dead bloke that bopped us all on the head. I think that it's the Scum or the Town's kill because it seems that the host is facilitating the kills (and the host wants us all dead for some reason.)

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Scouty]

Mayor: CorneliusMurdock

If he's scum and he gets a townie killed, then it's fair to scrutinize him. You seem persistent in wanting it, which I like (a tactic, as town, I employed in a past mini-mafia).

[CorneliusMurdock]

Thanks, I guess.

[CMP]

Mayor: CorneliusMurdock

If he's scum and he gets a townie killed, then it's fair to scrutinize him. You seem persistent in wanting it, which I like (a tactic, as town, I employed in a past mini-mafia).

You got converted after a single day.

I was going to try and think of something funny to say about that, but looking at it, and given our situation, I don't see why the recruiters wouldn't just convert whoever became mayor.

[Dannylonglegs]

Thanks, I guess.

You're welcomish.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Scouty]

You got converted after a single day.

I was going to try and think of something funny to say about that, but looking at it, and given our situation, I don't see why the recruiters wouldn't just convert whoever became mayor.

Unless we choose somebody who isn't recruitable, however so those parameters are chosen...

I guess we just have to hope that Cornelius isn't convertible.

[Dannylonglegs]

Unless we choose somebody who isn't recruitable, however so those parameters are chosen...

I guess we just have to hope that Cornelius isn't convertible.

Yes, I agree. I hope Cornelius isn't convertible, but we're taking the same risks whether we vote Cornelius or Flare, and I'd rather have Cornelius. That's just me. I mean no offence Flare, I think you're a great player, and you really pulled one over me in Jedi Temple (with help from Tammo), but I think Cornelius would be a better candidate for the reasons I explained previously.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Scouty]

Do we need to elect a mayor to decide a tie in the vote for mayor??

[TrumpetKing]

Well, all this argument over who the mayor should be has been quite confusing. Seeing as our mayor only helps with tie-breakers in the vote, I do think that it would be better to vote for a mayor that has more experience, because a more experienced player should be able to spot scum with ease compared to some of us who are less-experienced. However, the mayor is likely to be a target, and if we elect someone experienced, and they get killed, there is the chance that they may be town. I personally don't want to take the chance of losing an extremely valuable Eurobricker, so I think it would be best to vote for Flare.

Mayor: Flare

[Pandora]

Hell's teeth there's a lot to get through.

Firstly, obviously, it sucks to be starting day one down two townies already. When I read the opening post, my initial thoughts were that it seemed to me most likely that the scum would have killed Captain Redblade, to avoid killing a strong player that might be on their (other) team, and that Cecilie was killed by the serial killer. We know there's a serial killer, so we don't have to speculate about the possibility of a third party. I'm willing to believe that we don't have a vigilante in this situation, as they often (but not always) do more harm than good for us, and we have enough to be going up against with recruiting and scum kills and psycho kills. I can imagine the scum not wanting to take out a valuable player on night zero, where they have nothing to base their opinion on as to whether that person may be on their team or not, and if they were going to take out a valuable player, then they do have a few to choose from, possibly even stronger players than Cecilie (with no offense to Cecilie intended). I also imagine that, with this in mind, it's possible they might switch up their strategy as they'll have a better idea of who's town or not after today. Having said that, it's possible the scum killers might kill the same target the scum recruiters are trying to recruit, for exactly the same reasons. These are all thoughts based on what I've seen so far, and just because I think these thoughts, that doesn't make them true. Similarly, just because people argue vehemently otherwise, that doesn't make them right, either.

When def mentioned the teams of killers and recruiters, I believe he was just referring to the teams, so (and I really hope this is true) presumably the team that kills (called killers) only kills once per night, and the team that recruits (called recruiters) recruits once per night. There was mention somewhere from def about them having better or enhanced recruiting ability, but we also know the scum teams are unlikely to have investigative roles as they aren't able to confirm themselves to one another (I'm sure he said that somewhere). I doubt the other members of the killing and recruiting teams are just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs, so they probably have other night actions to aid them on their evil endeavours, but at least we know they can't just go and investigate each other and convert each other/ not kill each other. As to numbers, I guesstimate 6 +/- 1 scum total, divided (obviously) into two teams, for what it's worth.

I'm uncomfortable with the willingness to just accept and vote for Flare as mayor; it isn't a major role, but it may prove crucial in latter days. We didn't have any discussion as to which type of person would be the best bet, and instead the votes just piled in. I don't really have any suggestions for another mayoral candidate, but I liked Rick's suggestion of piratedave, given that he's seemed quite townie in his actions. Having said that, if we're voting for a mayor we believe to be townie, then if they are townie they're a good kill/conversion target, so we're back to WIFOM (again).

The puzzle: I got a piece, here it is, but I haven't been here all day, and I doubt it would have helped.

We can hope all we want that Town got the puzzle right, but we have no way of knowing. There is always the possibility that whoever became ascetic for the night won't be targeted anyway. Who knows? We don't, but we'll all find out in the end.

I don't like to be rude but shut up.

Could somebody please give Hinckley a hug? He's gone all argumentative and seems unwilling to listen to other people's points of view, despite wanting discussion. I agree with DarkDragon that we're not going to know who did what last night until we have a pattern to look at, and that will take time. We can speculate, yes, but that's all it is, speculation. Anyone too set in their ways looks like they know more than they're letting on.

[DarthPotato]

Do we need to elect a mayor to decide a tie in the vote for mayor??

I think we do, and at this point it looks like someone's going to be elected for sure because it's whoever has the most votes. So I think Flare has the best chance at the moment.

To be honest, I'd rather go for Cornelius. He's actually pushing for himself, and I think scum would rather let other people nominate them instead of them doing it themselves. Also, how are we supposed to know if a lurker was converted? They'd barely post and we would be able to tell a difference in their activity and posts. Cornelius seems more active so we'd be able to get a better idea of if he's scum or if he's been converted or not.