Why doesn’t LEGO provide any battle packs?

[TheBoyWonder]

My little brother (12) likes collecting main characters, but he also likes building an army. When the Sun promotion with Uruk Hai came out, we got 12. Hes even started making custom Rohirrim, because he didn't like the amount of them in HElms Deep set.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

A colleague of mine previously acted as the attorney for TLG -- the precise language used in the license agreement is that the minifigs must be "ancillary and proportionate to" construction models.

[Vindicare]

I don't see the big deal of not having BPs period. With eBay, bricklink, here, and every other Internet site where you can buy LEGOs.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Legocrazy81

[Venkefedo]

I don't see the big deal of not having BPs period. With eBay, bricklink, here, and every other Internet site where you can buy LEGOs.

It makes it quicker/easier/cheaper (or 2 out of those 3) to get a bunch of army-builder types. Some Orcs (Mordor w/ hair, Moria) go for $5 or $6+ each, so buying 4 would set you back $20-$24+, plus shipping, and you MIGHT not even get accessories--let alone other bricks for a little build of some sort. Sure, it's cheaper than buying the full sets themselves JUST for the specific figures, but it's still not nearly ideal.

That's not to say it would ALWAYS be expensive... Uruk-Hai without handprint armor/helmets are pretty cheap, as are the hairless Mordor Orcs

[Mr_Malfoy]

A colleague of mine previously acted as the attorney for TLG -- the precise language used in the license agreement is that the minifigs must be "ancillary and proportionate to" construction models.

LEGO could very easily do that. Lord of the Rings BPs can include siege weapons (catapults, ballistas, battering rams, etc), weapon racks, scenery (rocks, bushes), and so and so on. They actually could mini-waves midway between LotR and Hobbit waves consisting of battlepacks. I already know of some ideas they could make a lot of money on:

Mordor Orc Battlepack (4 Mordor Orcs - 2 regular, 1 armored, 1 captain, catapult, weapons rack, rock, standard)

Rohirrim Battlepack (2 Rohan soldiers, 2 Rohirrim, two horses, weapons rack, tent, standard)

Gondorian Battlepack (4 Gondorian soldiers, trebuchet, weapons rack, standard, bush)

Uruk-hai Battlepack (3 Uruk-hai, 1 Uruk captain, catapult, weapons rack, rock, battering ram, standard)

Easterling/Haradrim Battlepack (2 Easterlings, 2 Haradrim, catapult, rock, weapons rack)

Elven Battlepack (4 Lorien Elves, weapons rack, rock, bush, standard, some sort of assault vehicle)

Warg Battlepack (2 Orcs, 2 Wargs, standard, weapons rack, rocks and bushes)

Army of the Dead Battlepack (4 Soldiers of the Dead, weapons rack, rock, catapult[?])

Corsair Battlepack (4 Corsairs, mini dock, weapons rack, catapult [cannon if they had cannons])

I would buy at least two of them, maybe several depending on what they are.

[Mahtion]

I'm good on any battle packs as long as we get a Lorien Galadhrim helm and a Noldor Last Alliance helm. Banners and little cultural builds would be a bonus like a little tree sentry post for Lorien or a gate tower for Noldor.

[MrHorntail]

I totally agree..it just makes creating an uruk-hai army so much harder. I'm still feeling guilty that instead of buying two sets of uruk-hai army, i got the lego kingdoms chess set cause of the sheer number of minifigures..

[Deathleech]

Yup, most of the figures you would army build with are $4.50+ on BrickLink and over $5 on eBay. The cheapest is the Uruk-hai at around $3, and I assume only because it was available in so many sets and the Sun promotion. Even at $3 it's slightly higher than you would find them in a normal battlepack, and the BPs include accessories and bricks for a small build to further their value.

I would MUCH rather go into a store and buy 10 battle packs for $12-15 each and get all my figures plus hundreds of bricks and weapons than go on BrickLink, wait to try to find a decent deal, and still end up paying 50 bucks more for the same minifigures and not get any weapons or bricks with the order. Lego could be making a ton of money AND making it easier on fans to army build, that's win/win!

[Infernum]

I totally agree with you Deathleech1 I would love LOTR battle packs. The only hard thing would be figuring out what the built part would be. Because of the agreement, lego could make slighty larger battle packs (15-20 dollars) and include something brickbuilt.

[Fives]

I would be happy if LEGO continued to produce larger style BPs for LOTR, follow in the amazing footsteps of the Uruk Army set. They cold make sets that don't really represent any particular scene in the films, but just have a general look and feel of a battle or ambush that could've happened. So, they could make an Attack at the Wall set, and it could look like an extension of a larger Osgilliath or other Gondorian building, with a couple of Gondorians and four orcs, with maybe a catapult or an armored troll. They could also do something like this again for Rohan, with rather than a wall, it could be a burning building, and the figs could be a couple Rohirrim, two orcs and two wild men of Dunland, and maybe a Warg and a small ballista. Stuff like this, while slightly more expensive, fits better with the epic size of the battles in the films, and people are still willing to buy these sets by the dozens. If LEGO did one set like this per wave, they'd make a lot of fans happy, and make a lot of money.

[binaryeye]

Not only that, the current sets have caught a lot of nagative criticism because Lego isn't able to really capture some of the big structures and landscape scenes where as with a battle pack they could easily enhance the existing sets and allow people to amass huge armies.

So the solution to a lack of large structures and vast landscapes is more minifigures?

I understand the line is still in its early stages but if we don't get a battle pack by wave 3 or 4 I am going to be severely disappointed.

How do we know the line is in its early stages? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the second wave is the last. Remember, at its most recent, this is a ten-year-old franchise.

I totally agree with you Deathleech1 I would love LOTR battle packs. The only hard thing would be figuring out what the built part would be. Because of the agreement, lego could make slighty larger battle packs (15-20 dollars) and include something brickbuilt.

Something brick-built like part of a wall or a ballista? Uruk-Hai Army is the definition of what you suggest and a perfectly acceptable "battle pack".

[Deathleech]

So the solution to a lack of large structures and vast landscapes is more minifigures?

Obviously not, and obviously battle packs come with more than just the minfigures. If a Moria Orc battle pack came with some pillars, stairs, or a bridge piece you could buy several and use these pieces to enhance the Mines of Moria set. Or if a Warg Ambush set came with some orcs and Wargs and then a couple small trees or rocks you could use those in conjunction with the bigger Warg Attack set to make a larger more sprawling forest.

How do we know the line is in its early stages? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the second wave is the last. Remember, at its most recent, this is a ten-year-old franchise.

Regardless if there is one more wave or ten, the LotR line is currently in it's early stages. It's not even a year old, that's consider the early stages last time I checked regardless of how long the line last.

[Str0ngbad]

It seems to me the entry level Lone Ranger set puts an end to all of the excuses for TLG not making BPs for licensed themes. I know as a kid I would have certainly asked for a battle pack type set before something like Riddles for the Ring. I mean it's a cannon, a new white horse, and four people compared to a rock, a dingy raft, and two people who can't even move their legs. It's not like BPs are geared toward adults instead of kids. Now I like the LOTR entry level sets just fine but I have a hard time seeing how BPs wouldn't be far more successful. I almost wonder if they're worried about competing with Star Wars but that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I do think the fact that we didn't get a Gondorian equivalent of the Uruk-Hai Army set bodes well for at least a third wave though. I don't think TLG will pass over such an obvious success.

[TheLegoDr]

True, they are coming out with essentially a battle pack for Lone Ranger and that will be the first wave of that theme (and it will only continue if they make more movies for it to continue), so it is odd that LOTR still doesn't have any.

[Blakstone]

I doubt that LotR could support a purely battle pack. I play SWTOR so I bought a couple Knights of the Old Republic battle packs. For $12 I get two unnamed Republic Troops and two unnamed Sith Troopers.

I would be completely happy if I could get one Aragorn, Rohan soldier (not archer) and two orcs for the same amount. True army building AFOL don't need another Aragorn but we can get some unnamed soldiers for our armies.

Even the rumored Frodo and the Ringwraith would have been good for that.

We need a small set that has some unnamed characters to go with the named ones.

[TheLegoDr]

But by adding Aragorn into the battle pack you still take away one spot for another unnamed soldier, which is exactly what you said you wanted. They need to do two Rohan soldiers or two Gondor soldiers and two orcs or some variation and try to leave all of the named characters out since most people that want them will pick up the set with them in it.

[Deathleech]

Ya, adding a named character to a battle pack would just steer people away from it I would think. I mean you basically are getting the three figures you want, and then after the initial purchase the fourth is all but useless. If it were just a straight battle pack with 4 grunts though every figure is useful and going to up the appeal of the set.

Regardless I would be fine if they put a captain or something in there, or even a named character who can kind of double up as a soldier with some swapped parts from the same BP (like Eomer). Ideally I would like battle packs with 4 grunts from each faction, that way I am not stuck getting 2 Gondor Soldiers and 2 Mordor Orcs every time I buy the battle pack when all I want is Gondor Soldiers.

[jonwil]

I don't know the details but I wouldn't be surprised if the LOTR license includes terms designed to ensure that LEGO doesn't produce products that compete with not just the action figure manufacturers (ala the Star Wars license) but with Games Workshop as the manufacturers of the LOTR fantasy battle game.

[Faefrost]

It seems to me the entry level Lone Ranger set puts an end to all of the excuses for TLG not making BPs for licensed themes. I know as a kid I would have certainly asked for a battle pack type set before something like Riddles for the Ring. I mean it's a cannon, a new white horse, and four people compared to a rock, a dingy raft, and two people who can't even move their legs. It's not like BPs are geared toward adults instead of kids. Now I like the LOTR entry level sets just fine but I have a hard time seeing how BPs wouldn't be far more successful. I almost wonder if they're worried about competing with Star Wars but that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I do think the fact that we didn't get a Gondorian equivalent of the Uruk-Hai Army set bodes well for at least a third wave though. I don't think TLG will pass over such an obvious success.

The rules governing licensed Battlepacks are specific to the license or licencor. We already know that Disney is looser regarding this or is specifically allowed in their contract with Lego. They put out a PotC Battlepack and now a LR one. Whereas WB keeps the "Action Figure" piece of their license's much more isolated and protected.

I don't know the details but I wouldn't be surprised if the LOTR license includes terms designed to ensure that LEGO doesn't produce products that compete with not just the action figure manufacturers (ala the Star Wars license) but with Games Workshop as the manufacturers of the LOTR fantasy battle game.

The Lego License and the GW one are from entirely different sources. The GW license is from the Tolkien estate. The Lego one is from WB and New Line. Lego is limited to the movies only. But GW's licenses have no impact on Lego's.

[Str0ngbad]

The rules governing licensed Battlepacks are specific to the license or licencor. We already know that Disney is looser regarding this or is specifically allowed in their contract with Lego. They put out a PotC Battlepack and now a LR one. Whereas WB keeps the "Action Figure" piece of their license's much more isolated and protected.

If you really think it's the license, what makes the Uruk-Hai Army set different? Is it just the price point? I have a hard time seeing how putting four generic figures in a set with a small build competes with the companies selling action figures. It's not like they are banking on selling dozens of Yaznegs.

[Smack]

Just a thought, but how about a potential Minas Tirith battle pack? I for one think there will be one more (if not more) LOTR wave coinciding with the 3rd Hobbit movie. Maybe 2 Gondorian soldiers and either 2 orcs or one orc and Gothmog???? (I think that was his name). Add a brick built Minas Tirith entrance and a Legoish battering ram and there you go, one LOTR battle pack. As for Rohan soldiers, how about 2 orcs, one riding a warg, 2 Rohan soldiers, one on horse, and some brick built landscape. Heck, Lego could even through in a flick-fire something or other for added playability. Battle packs are more than possible. It all comes down to how invested Lego is in this line and the Hobbit line as well.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Smack

[Blakstone]

Ya, adding a named character to a battle pack would just steer people away from it I would think. I mean you basically are getting the three figures you want, and then after the initial purchase the fourth is all but useless. If it were just a straight battle pack with 4 grunts though every figure is useful and going to up the appeal of the set.

I think it would take one main character to draw more LEGO fans to the set. A set designed to appeal only to the AFOL and army builder will not sustain sales. I am willing to sacrifice one of the minifigs to a main character in order for LEGO to make the battle pack in the first place.

LEGO has already put some of their Legends of Chima sets on Retiring Soon.

[jonwil]

I think the difference is that the Uruk-Hai battle pack contains enough building content to not violate the license.

Whereas the kind of battle packs people want here (which would be more like the Star Wars battle packs) may not contain enough content to satisfy the license.

[Str0ngbad]

You have a point in regards to the ratio of the piece count to figures. I was surprised to find that Uruk-Hai Army has 45 pieces per figure where the SW Mandalorian Battle Pack has only 17.5. If there is this kind of licensing limitation, I have to say it doesn't make a lot of sense from WB's perspective considering it doesn't appear that it would conflict with anything else from the theme but I guess I wouldn't put it past them. But even assuming that, it's surprising to me that there haven't been more pseudo BPs like Uruk-Hai Army. Regardless, I'm beyond ecstatic that LEGO Middle Earth exists at all and I only hope it doesn't end before they've given it a good fleshing out; battle packs or not.

[greeny]

Part 2 probably won't have quite so many options with the elves and spiders being the chief 'enemies' encountered by the Company (tho I'm sure the orcs will harry them again at some point before the Five Armies), maybe Dol Goldur forces vs some elves of Rivendell and/or Lothlorien assisting the White Council (just guessing we'll see troops there), but Part 3 will have PLENTY of potential BP sets.

This sounds really good! For the Third wave of Hobbit sets (if there is one) I hope that most of the sets are good for army building. That way we can recreate the Battle of the Five Armies, and be able to use them in the Lord of the Rings sets (Orcs, Elfs ect..). I hope TLC realizes the amount of money they can get from battle packs. Gandalf Arrives and Riddles for the Ring are the worst sets in the line IMO