Adults not allowed! - LEGOLand Discovery Centres

[DPrime]

It isn't The LEGO Group's fault at all. Merlin Entertainments runs the Legoland (and Discovery Center) franchise. Yes it does have LEGO's name on it, but it doesn't automatically mean you should point to them, and refusing to buy their products isn't really a way to set an example. At the end of the day, the employees are employees of Merlin Entertainments, not The LEGO Group, so it should be taken up with Merlin. Also I'm pretty sure there's AFOL nights in the Discovery Centers, why didn't he go then? And he isn't the only one who's been turned away, loads of lone adults have.

I both agree and disagree.

The Lego Group might not have made the decision, or even been aware of it (but they should have been) - regardless, I look at things from a chain-of-command perspective. Lego delegated responsibility for running their parks - but that doesn't meant they're absolved of any responsiblity for decisions made by said delegated persons.

I do agree that boycotting Lego - especially for your kids - is a bit of a harsh response, to say the least.

The article did say he tried bringing it up with the manager, but was essentially brushed off. He brought it to the media, and why not? As if a letter to the CEO of either company would have even been read by anyone outside the mailroom. ;)

Also, the "no childless adults" rule is hardly widely advertised, at least at Canada's Discovery Center. I think he can be forgiven for not knowing about it - I didn't see it plastered anywhere on their brochure. And maybe AFOL nights aren't really ideal for someone who has to drive three hours on the 401 through Toronto traffic both ways on an evening, especially for an older guy...

Bottom line, I don't think it's a just policy. Lego might not be directly responsible for the policy, but it's in their interest to try and resolve it, I think.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

I checked out their website, as I have a trip to Toronto coming and I might like to go. So a few things:

One, their site says the following:

"Our attraction is designed for families with children aged 3-10 years old. Adults must be accompanied by children to enter LEGOLAND Discovery Centre. We will host adult nights for our Adult Fans of LEGO without children." (Emphasis mine.)

I've been to the LLDC in Grapevine, Texas, and I recall that they also advertised AFOL nights. So yes, he had that option.

Two, I'm a lawyer. My instinctive guess is that this is a liability prevention mechanism. All they need is one instance of a lone adult molesting, kidnapping, or injuring a kid to invite a lawsuit and have their target audience asking "Why are lone adults allowed in here?" On a fundamental level, I don't like the notion that lone adults, particularly men, are presumptively out to harm children. In a place as busy as an LLDC, I think it's pretty unlikely. Still, this is probably based on safety concerns (and fear of getting sued as a result), and they made the call to have the policy.

Three, having been to at least one LLDC, I should note that a 63 year-old man is *probably* going to be unhappy at an LLDC during all-ages hours. If it's like any other LLDC, then yeah, he might enjoy the two kid-oriented rides and the 10-minute Adventures of Clutch Powers films. However, the rest of the park is probably going to be pretty noisy and overcrowded. Does he *really* want to go in the Fire Department tubes and tunnel play zone with a bunch of six year olds? Or do karaoke in the girl's play zone? I mean, look, whatever floats your boat, but he's going to be competing elbow-to-elbow with a horde of kids half his size. An LLDC is *not* like Legoland (well, I'll assume it's not like Legoland, having never been) where you have much more open space. They're crammed into shopping malls.

My guess is that the big draw for an AFOL is the city models. The Dallas model was pretty impressive, and was more interesting to me than to my kid (who wanted to get back to the rides). A smart move for Merlin might be to have the city models visible from the LLDC store, which to my knowledge *is* open to the public even if you're not going into the Center itself.

[tedbeard]

The manager did say that If he had actually been made aware of the issue (clearly a dud employee dealt with the man) the manager would have escorted him through as his "guest".

I think it is a silly blanket policy but it is to as cold-hearted as it is being portrayed in the media.

[timtosino]

It doesn't matter who owns it, it's got the Lego name on it, and Lego has come out on their facebook page and repeatedly made statements supporting the decision by the Merlin group. That makes them just as responsible in my opinion.

I'm extremely disappointed, and find it disgustingly offensive.

I didn't realize TLG was supporting the actions of Merlin so openly as I've been paying attention mainly to LDC's Toronto Page, at least LDC said they had passed the complaints on to the appropriate department. The coverage of this story is still spreading worldwide despite LDC saying they have made up for the situation with Mr. St-Onge. I imagine the company's reputation has been damaged bad with both AFOLs and Parents with kids and we'll prolly be hearing about this from the public for a while...

As for moving the local models to be visible from the store that would be a decision I hope they take at the very least. I doubt most AFOLs would shop at the store though since it's not a LBR store with VIP points, so the only thing they'd look at is the models.

Edited July 11, 2013 by leavebeaver2me

[meyerc13]

This policy was discussed some time back in this forum: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75760

[Flying Ace]

In the USA (and possibly in other countries) we have something called Chuck E Cheese's, which is a kid's entertainment center/pizza parlor. Their approach to the whole security/safety issue is to put a UV stamp mark on the arms of all members of an arriving party with children. When a child leaves with an adult, their stamps have to match (and yes there is an employee at the exit at all times to monitor this). There is no entry fee, and a grown man or woman can certainly enter unchallenged - as I have when meeting my family there. This seems like a more reasonable approach than the LLDC method. As to the question of "are they discriminating," my guess is that because they charge an entry fee they have a lot more control over setting this type of policy than a "free" facility.

An AFOL night is a good idea, but as mentioned above it doesn't help those from out of town (as in the example above) who need to come on a "day off" and may not want to drive back home late at night.

Having said that - if they changed their policy there would almost certainly be a backlash in the other direction, and even more bad publicity, so I don't expect it to change.

[timtosino]

LDC's own Ticket Page is super confusing.. Anyone 13 and over is considered an "adult" and charged $22. It says no "adults" are allowed in the center without a "child", no where on the page does it say anything about the children having to be under 18. So does that mean they wouldn't allow a family with two teens aged 13 and 15, and if they did why are they considered an adult when charging admission prices but a child when they are under 18? Another thing if this attraction is essentially purely for kids and adults are essentially there to watch them why are they being charged $4 each more than their kids for the privilege to do so?

[Ricecracker]

Merged into previous discussion.

[Captain Green Hair]

Aaaaargh, the whole world is running so scared these days!

I feel it is discrimination, if they would have faith in their security (and those do not need to be all that visible) this rule would not be necessary IMO.

[Larrynautik]

This story is truely incredible. He just wanted to see the Toronto skyline display. Very bad point for Lego here ! I would sent this guy a free set if I had his address.

[BrickG]

I can understand people wanting to protect kids but as an adult lego fan without kids I don't feel like being treated like a potential pedophile is the proper action. In fact I believe it to be extremely terrible. Treat me like a criminal? I've never even gotten a ticket. It's flat out corruption. I feel for parents but you CANNOT use a wrong to protect from wrong. Well you can, you'd just be wrong (and a terrible person who is basically saying I'm a pedophile).

Seriously.

Discrimination. Generalizations of the worst kind. How dare people treat me like a criminal or support treating me like a criminal.

Lucky for me though I don't want to go to Legoland :P. But if I did I doubt I'd have noticed that odd rule either.

[Omicron]

The Children's Science Museum in Boston has a policy similar to this. They require you turn over your licence/ID and issue you a pass if you do not have a child during your time in the museum and they'll return it to you when you leave. They can also tell you to leave whenever the case as well.

So yeah, this isn't a Lego thing guys. It's an everyday, everywhere thing.

-Omi

Edited July 14, 2013 by Omicron

[dr_spock]

The Lego Discovery Centre had a flyer in this Saturday's Toronto Star newspaper. In the Useful Information section on the last page of the flyer, they have the adult policy for the attraction area.

The adult policy could also be so that children can enjoy the attraction area without competing with teenagers or adults for hands-on play time and parts. I was there on adult night. Some of the adults brought along children. Little kids wouldn't stand a chance against me grabbing all the good parts for the build contest or hogging all the Duplo at the earthquake tables to build the highest tower.

[Captain Green Hair]

The Children's Science Museum in Boston has a policy similar to this. They require you turn over your licence/ID and issue you a pass if you do not have a child during your time in the museum and they'll return it to you when you leave. They can also tell you to leave whenever the case as well.

So yeah, this isn't a Lego thing guys. It's an everyday, everywhere thing.

-Omi

Well the science museum then has a good security measure, then at least I could get in. Perhaps we should suggest that to Lego.

[LiamM32]

Awwwwe man! Why didn't you show this to me when I was ten years old! I would have loved to see this.

Even though I am older now, I am actually somewhat amused to see that there is a place where adults are not allowed. Well, atleast not without being accompanied by children. When I was younger, I was bothered by all these places where children are not allowed to go. I would of loved to see adult-free areas, maybe slightly amused if they require a child's accompanyment. Well now there is somewhere to compensate. Hooray for the young ones.

But of course, they have adult nights. I really think that you should not complain. The children are completely forbidden from the adult nights, unlike other time where the children require accompanyment. So invert your complaint if you must complain about something.

[Omicron]

Well the science museum then has a good security measure, then at least I could get in. Perhaps we should suggest that to Lego.

Yeah, at the cost of your identity. That is potential identity theft too if there is a mishap.

-Omi

Edited July 14, 2013 by Omicron

[timtosino]

The adult nights are great if you are local and I do mean LOCAL since they only allow you admittance between the hours of 7 and 8 PM on those nights. That doesn't help if you live 3 or 4 hours away, work or have a medical condition like that person in the story does. What if I'm visiting from out of town? The calendar on their webpage is empty so I can't even plan ahead in that regard.

[dvsntt]

That's age discrimination.

[tedbeard]

What if I'm visiting from out of town? The calendar on their webpage is empty so I can't even plan ahead in that regard.

The manager is quoted as saying he would have been happy to take the man through as his "guest" if he had known what was happening.

Planning ahead could involve using these things called "telephones" or "email" to the store manager. Not rocket science and NOT nearly as evil as people are making it out to be.

[timtosino]

The manager is quoted as saying he would have been happy to take the man through as his "guest" if he had known what was happening.

Planning ahead could involve using these things called "telephones" or "email" to the store manager. Not rocket science and NOT nearly as evil as people are making it out to be.

Are you sure it was the location manager that offered that? In the story above it says the manager said it would have been even inappropriate for them to be escorted to the Miniland Display to take pictures.

[Fatteh]

That's age discrimination.

I know, right? Terrible. I won a kid's movie pass the other day in a colouring competition and they totally wouldn't let me use it at the theatre. I am NOT a criminal! Seriously.

[Rook]

Kids not allowed at AFOL conventions! Oh wait never mind...

[just2good]

Compensation. Now they have to let every adult who has been turned down get the same choices.

[Fatteh]

Compensation. Now they have to let every adult who has been turned down get the same choices.

No they don't. That would be silly.

[Omicron]

Kids not allowed at AFOL conventions! Oh wait never mind...

That's a choice made by the LUG group/person running the AFOL con. Lego has no authority at conventions since they don't even organize them.

-Omi