Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Sandy]

Yeah, new Battle Songs should be treated like the scrolls. Meaning that whoever carries it can use it, and I need to approve it first before it is given to a player.

[Cutcobra]

Aww, thanks Lordy!

NO! Karie loves working with Mr. A, she loves it! She couldn't live without him!

What just happened?

Mr A, or Mr J .

[Darth Nihilus]

I just had an idea for an Expert Job Class, but since I don't host quests, this one is just an idea for someone else to build on.

Master Rogue

Health: +?

Ether: N/A

Equipment: The Master Rogue can use any equipment suitable to Rogues.

Job traits: Flee (see Rogue) Invisible(no free hits can be dealt to the character until they attack), Murderous (Any hit has a 1/36 chance of assassinating the enemy struck, determined by two rolls of the die)

Battle style: Lone Thief - The Master Rogue uses his/her own thieving prowess and quick strikes to take down a foe.

SHIELD: Shower of Gold - the Master Rogue deals a powerful blow to the enemy, dealing 2 times their weapon power added to their level in damage, and stealing gold equal to 2/3 of the damage dealt (rounded down). The Master Rogue also becomes immune to Free Hits for the remainder of the round. Example: Dak (Lvl 30) hits Skeleton with Dagger (WP:10), dealing 50 damage and stealing 33 gold, and becomes invisible, stopping any Free Hits from touching him. (30 + 10 + 10 = 50, 50 x 2/3 = 33.33333...)

CRITICAL HIT: Ending Blow - The Master Rogue strikes the enemy, dealing their weapon power added to 1/3 of the enemy's remaining Health in damage. Example: Dak (Lvl 30) once again strikes Skeleton(30/30 HP) with Dagger (WP: 10), and leaves the Skeleton with 10 HP. (30 / 3 = 10, 10 + 10 = 20, 30 - 20 = 10).

HIT: The Master Rogue deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level.

MISS: Stealthy Retreat - The Master Rogue misses their attack, but immediately switches to the Back Row for the remainder of the round.

DAMAGE: The Master Rogue is struck with the enemy's attack. If this is player's first strike against the enemy, the remainders of their invisibility cause only 3/4 of the damage to be dealt.

SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Master Rogue is struck with the enemy's special skill.

Of course, this "Master (class)" template can really be applied to anything, but I rather like what I've come up with to expand the Rogue's abilities. Any thoughts/comments?

EDIT: Just realized a similar idea has been posted before. And here I thought I was being smart.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Darth Nihilus

[Flare]

^You skipped "Miss" / "Aim"

[Darth Nihilus]

^You skipped "Miss" / "Aim"

Oops.

Fixed now. It never happened, 'kay?

[Flare]

Oops.

Fixed now. It never happened, 'kay?

What never happened?

[Scubacarrot]

Hey, welcome back. Sandy had the idea to make basically upgraded versions of basic classes as expert classes, but I think that idea has been put on the shelf for now.

As for your class, I'd remove Murderous. It's two extra dice rolls on every hit, which takes a little bit of extra time for the QM to do, for something which is almost never going to matter. Perhaps you could add something for RP, like the ability to use stealth, or you could expand flee to allow returns to battle (QM's discretion thing, perhaps) I also don't like the 2 roll, as it is in a lot of cases going to be weaker than an actual critical hit. I think the class as you made it now is severely underpowered compared to other Expert classes. I like the Shield and the Miss things.

[Flipz]

I definitely like that Miss roll, but the rest of it seems a little lacking.

Good to see you back, though!

[Darth Nihilus]

Hey, welcome back. Sandy had the idea to make basically upgraded versions of basic classes as expert classes, but I think that idea has been put on the shelf for now.

As for your class, I'd remove Murderous. It's two extra dice rolls on every hit, which takes a little bit of extra time for the QM to do, for something which is almost never going to matter. Perhaps you could add something for RP, like the ability to use stealth, or you could expand flee to allow returns to battle (QM's discretion thing, perhaps) I also don't like the 2 roll, as it is in a lot of cases going to be weaker than an actual critical hit. I think the class as you made it now is severely underpowered compared to other Expert classes. I like the Shield and the Miss things.

Been back a while, I just haven't posted or logged on. But thanks anyway.

To your comments about the class: Murderous came from my lack of ideas for a third Job Trait, so I just used a nerfed version of Assassin's unique job trait. The Critical Hit I created is actually one of my (in my opinion) better ideas, because it fits the character so well by whittling down the enemie's health quickly. Also, it may not be useful against minions, but just think what it could have done to one of Endgame's bosses... Come to think of it, against bosses it is rather OP. Might have to change that.

[Scubacarrot]

Well, if it's total health, perhaps, but you're saying remaining health. With enemies, or perhaps more the damage output people have now, one third could very well be less than a critical hit. There's an example in Quest 63 where I did just do over 400 damage on an extra critical hit without elemental bonusses (granted, the enemy was fragile and Guts was encouraged). Most enemies are not going to have health to make that around equal, I guess. Also, for it to be called an Ending Blow, it's not going to end much, as it's going to do less and less damage as the enemy's health decreases.

I think I am misassuming that it wouldn't be affected by multipliers. Okay, I see how it can be powerful.

[Endgame]

Spirit Medium... V4, I believe? Now with an extra emphasis on souls/spirits, to keep it unique.

Spirit Medium

These splintered souls walk the line between life and death.

Additional Health: +3

Additional Ether: +7 (+1 per each level up.)

Weapons: Staves, Maces, Clubs, Broomsticks, Wands, Gems, Scrolls, Spells and Scythes.

Job Traits: Spiritism: See Necromancer.

Soul Reaper: Every defeated enemy causes the Spirit Medium's Soul Counter to go up by one. Before every action they may expend their souls in a Soul Action (See below). Souls carry between battles but not between quests.

Spellcasting: See Mage.

Battle Style: Haunting: The Spirit Medium uses the souls of the dead to fight their opponents.

6. Shield: Blast From Beyond: The Spirit Medium harnesses the souls they have acquired. In a blast of magic they do WP + Level + Soul Counter x2 to all enemies. The attack haunts the targetted enemy, making them Fragile for 3 rounds.

5. Ghostly Strike: The Spirit Medium damages the enemy equal WPx2 + Level + Soul Counter x2. The targetted enemy is frightened by the attack, Weakening them next round.

4. Hit: The Spirit Medium damages the enemy equal to WP + Level + Soul Counter.

3. Haunt: The Spirit Medium misses, but causes their target to hear the voices of those they have slain. The targetted enemy is Fragile next round.

2. Damage: The Spirit Medium is struck by the opponent's attack.

1. Special Mirror: See Witch.

Soul Actions:

Before every turn, the Spirit Medium may choose to expend their accumulated souls in one Soul Action:

Healing Mist: The Spirit Medium reduces their acquired souls into a healing mist. For every soul the Spirit Medium chooses to expend, they or an ally regain 7 HP.

Ethereal Ectoplasm: The Spirit Medium grinds their acquired souls into ether. For every soul the Spirit Medium chooses to expend, they or an ally regain 4 ether.

Chant Of The Dead: By expending 2 souls, the Spirit Medium Encourages himself or an ally for the rest of the round.

Swift Spirits: By expending 2 souls, the Spirit Medium Hastens himself or an ally for the rest of the round.

Lady Luck's Whisper: By expending 2 souls, the Spirit Medium makes himself or an ally Lucky for the rest of the round.

Thoughts?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Endgame

[Tachyon]

When it states every defeated enemy, does it have to be defeated by the character, or can it be defeated by the party ?

I think that you should either be able to perform a soul action or attack, not both.

[Flipz]

I agree, it should be an either/or choice.

[Flare]

I think that you should either be able to perform a soul action or attack, not both.

I agree, it should be an either/or choice.

Agreed. But it wasn't completely clear in the description as to whether it was a choice or not.

Also, there shouldn't be a 100% success rate for the soul actions. Maybe 2/3?

[Flipz]

Also, there shouldn't be a 100% success rate for the soul actions. Maybe 2/3?

Disagree there. Character kills are pretty rare for most characters (thus why the Sword of Ancestral Hatred isn't at WP:40 by now), so adding uncertainty to the cost of the actions is not optimal for me. I might buff the cost of the status buffs up to 3 souls, though, or maybe a 2-3-4 split for Encouraged-Hastened-Lucky.

[Scubacarrot]

I think it is a very powerful class. It may not seem that way, but special mirror and causing fragile on miss AND weakening on criticals AND an AoE shield AND choices of powerful support actions with souls, are very powerful tools to have. I'd remove the weakening from critical strike, and possibly change the shield into a single target attack. The traits seem fine. Essentially what I would do is change the class from being as powerful as the highest damage dealers AND able to provide support, to more of a support class without healing. Possibly you could do something that every attack gives some sort of an effect to an enemy, which causes the afflicted enemy to give a soul when killed?

[Jebediahs]

Geomancer

These mages specialize in a rock hard defense.

* Additional Health: +3

* Additional Ether: +6

* Weapons: Staves, Wands, Scrolls, Daggers, Gems

* Job Trait(s): Earthen Mastery - The geomancer is immune to petrify and earth based attacks.

Stoneskin - The geomancer can increase a single target’s defense.

Spellcasting - (See mage).

* Battle Style: Hardened - Geomancers are always rock hard.

1. SHIELD:

Rockling Army!

- The geomancer creates a powerful dust storm that hits all enemies for weapon power added to level and blinds them for three rounds (e.g. WP:20 + Level 30 = 50 damage + blind effect to all enemies). Additionally, the rock storm summons three level 10 rocklings for the remainder of the battle with 250 health, who critically hit for 20 damage and explode to hit all enemies for 10 damage on their SHIELD roll. Additional SHIELD rolls summon more

skeleton decoys

rocklings.

2. CRITICAL HIT/GREAT SPELL/GREATER STONESKIN: The geomancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level (WP:20 x 2 + Level 30 = 70 damage). Optionally, the geomancer can spend 5 ethers to enhance a single target’s defense by the geomancer's current weapon power (WP:20 = +20 SP to target). Each round stoneskin is active deducts 5 ethers from the geomancer. Effect expires from target when applied to a new target.

3. HIT/SPELL/STONESKIN: The geomancer attacks or spends 1 ether to cast an elemental spell with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level (WP:20 + Level 30 = 50 damage). Optionally, the geomancer can spend 5 ethers to enhance a single target’s defense by the geomancer's current weapon power divided by two rounded down (WP:20/2 = +10 SP to target). Each round stoneskin is active deducts 5 ethers from the geomancer. Effect expires from target when applied to a new target.

4. MEDITATE/LESSER STONESKIN: The geomancer meditates to regain 1 ether. Optionally, the geomancer can spend 5 ethers to enhance a single target’s defense by the geomancer's current weapon power divided by five rounded down (WP:20/5 = +4 SP to target). Each round stoneskin is active deducts 5 ethers from the geomancer. Effect expires from target when applied to a new target.

5. DAMAGE/PETRIFICATION: The geomancer is struck by their opponent’s attack. Optionally, the geomancer fails to cast stoneskin and petrifies the target instead.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE/PETRIFICATION: The geomancer is struck by their opponent’s special damage. Optionally, the geomancer fails to cast stoneskin and petrifies the target instead.

[Brickdoctor]

Can I get a couple players to play Geomancer and follow me around to buff my SP? Or maybe not; don't want to get Petrified...

[CMP]

Pretty cool, although Rocklings are an actual sentient species, not summoned creatures. It's also really powerful that the Geomancer petrifies the target on a failed stoneskin...I'd rather fail than succeed if that were the case.

[Waterbrick Down]

Pretty cool, although Rocklings are an actual sentient species, not summoned creatures. It's also really powerful that the Geomancer petrifies the target on a failed stoneskin...I'd rather fail than succeed if that were the case.

I think he meant you petrify the ally you're trying to cast stone skin on, in which case, it's a pretty good balance.

[LordoftheNoobs]

No we just need Aeromancers and Hydromancers!

[CMP]

I think he meant you petrify the ally you're trying to cast stone skin on, in which case, it's a pretty good balance.

Whoops. In that case, yeah, that's fair enough.

[Endgame]

I think it is a very powerful class. It may not seem that way, but special mirror and causing fragile on miss AND weakening on criticals AND an AoE shield AND choices of powerful support actions with souls, are very powerful tools to have. I'd remove the weakening from critical strike, and possibly change the shield into a single target attack. The traits seem fine. Essentially what I would do is change the class from being as powerful as the highest damage dealers AND able to provide support, to more of a support class without healing. Possibly you could do something that every attack gives some sort of an effect to an enemy, which causes the afflicted enemy to give a soul when killed?

Thanks for the feedback everybody! V5, here we go...

Spirit Medium

These splintered souls walk the line between life and death.

Additional Health: +3

Additional Ether: +7 (+1 per each level up.)

Weapons: Staves, Maces, Clubs, Broomsticks, Wands, Gems, Scrolls, Spells and Scythes.

Job Traits: Spiritism: See Necromancer.

Soul Reaper: Every defeated enemy causes the Spirit Medium's Soul Counter to go up by one. Before every action they may expend their souls in a Soul Action (See below). Souls carry between battles but not between quests.

Spellcasting: See Mage.

Battle Style: Haunting: The Spirit Medium uses the souls of the dead to fight their opponents.

6. Shield: Blast From Beyond: The Spirit Medium harnesses the souls they have acquired. In a blast of magic they do WP + Level + Soul Counter to all enemies. The attack haunts the targetted enemy, making them Fragile for 3 rounds.

5. Ghostly Strike: The Spirit Medium damages the enemy equal WPx2 + Level + Soul Counter. The targetted enemy is frightened by the attack, with a 1/2 chance of Weakening them next round.

4. Hit: The Spirit Medium damages the enemy equal to WP + Level + Soul Counter.

3. Haunt: The Spirit Medium misses, but causes their target to hear the voices of those they have slain. The targetted enemy is Fragile next round.

2. Damage: The Spirit Medium is struck by the opponent's attack.

1. Special Mirror: See Witch.

Soul Actions:

Before every turn, the Spirit Medium may choose to expend their accumulated souls in one Soul Action:

Healing Mist: The Spirit Medium reduces their acquired souls into a healing mist. For every soul the Spirit Medium chooses to expend, they or an ally regain 7 HP.

Ethereal Ectoplasm: The Spirit Medium grinds their acquired souls into ether. For every soul the Spirit Medium chooses to expend, they or an ally regain 4 ether.

Chant Of The Dead: By expending 2 souls, the Spirit Medium Encourages himself or an ally for the rest of the round and the next.

Swift Spirits: By expending 2 souls, the Spirit Medium Hastens himself or an ally for the rest of the round and the next.

Lady Luck's Whisper: By expending 2 souls, the Spirit Medium makes himself or an ally Lucky for the rest of the round and the next.

-Nerfed the Soul Counter bonus in the Shield and Critical hit rolls.

-Only a 1/2 chance of Weakening on a Critical Hit.

-Extended the effects of the Lucky/Hastened/Encouraged Soul Actions from one round to two.

Other Clarifications:

-A Soul is added regardless of whether or not the Spirit Medium kills the enemy - they harvest regardless.

I honestly thought you guys would think of it too weak. The Lucky/Hastened/Encouraged buffs only last two rounds. so I think a two round buff for every 2 enemies dead is fair. Also keep in mind, to create an item barely better then a potion, it takes 2 enemies dead... while the Alchemist can spontaneously create far better, party wide items without the need of killing foes. (The same applies to their Ether-producing action.) Thus, to buff these moves, I allowed them to take place before every action.

Also keep in mind that with only a +3 HP boost, they are the squishiest of all Expert classes.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Endgame

[Vash the Stampede]

In my opinion it doesn't really have enough options. Just to put it up against minstrels they have a larger variety of songs to use that buff the whole party. A few tonics and they can keep singing or just a lucky shield roll and the party receives a helpful boost of some sort. The Spirit Medium as less options and to actually support the entire party and not just themselves they have to consume a large amount of souls in comparison. And even ignoring the songs the minstrel which is a support class has an AoE attack along with a half chance stun for each enemy which by itself is pretty strong even ignoring the variety of songs that can buff the party. Alchemist also have a larger and better variety which makes up for not being as hard a hitter. Canoneers can AoE attack pretty darn hard and if the correct element is added double that. Necromancers and Dragoons have an extremely high damaging roll on a 2 while the Spirit Medium doesn't seem to be able to support to the extent or variety of other classes and even with the negative effects inflicted cannot hit as nearly as hard without a ton of soul counters. I'm in support of it being beefed up or at least becoming quite a bit more versatile.

[Tachyon]

This class seems uber-powerful if your teamed up with a person who has an AOE attack and a Person who is a single target damage dealer assuming they both have Strong Weapon(WP15-20) such as Romulus and Guts. They just need to be buffed for the first attack before they can pratically wipe out the entire enemy party. Then the spirit medium can buff a single target damage dealer(Hunter) such as Skrall and Xander and the hunter can deal tons of damage to the bosses.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Zakura