Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Flipz]

They don't necessarily need fixing, just mulling the idea of Veteran Advanced Classes. Base classes didn't need to be fixed, yet we got the Veteran Classes...

In a way, the Master Classes already fill that role. I don't think we'd need 20 of them, but I would like to see at least two different options for each base class (other than Mime).

Here's what we have so far:

Barbarian-Knight-Rogue (Paragon)

Cleric-Mage-Ranger (Prophet)

And here's what I'd suggest (including Virtuoso, with my own modification and further alteration of course):

Barbarian-Cleric-Rogue (Virtuoso)

Knight-Mage-Ranger (Some sort of Mystic Warden of some kind)

I'd also like to see a Barbarian-Ranger-Rogue combo (i.e. Hunter meets Assassin), but that'd obviously end poorly.

Here's my own take on Virtuoso, by the way:

Virtuoso

Cleric – barbarian– rogue

These heroic warrior-poets have mastered a wide range of skills.

· Additional Health: +20

· Additional Ether: +10

· Weapons: Virtuosos wield weapons suitable for clerics, barbarians and rogues, including scrolls and battle songs.

· Job Traits: Healing (See Cleric), Restoration (See Paragon), Gamble (See Rogue Thief), Battle Songs (See Minstrel), Know When to Run – Virtuosos can steal the drops of one enemy while fleeing battle, Regale – Virtuosos can whip up tales just about anyone will believe.

· Battle Style: Poetic: Virtuosos apply all their talents to fight poetic injustice.

1. SHIELD:

Deus Ex Machina:

The virtuoso drains health from all enemies equal to the virtuoso's level, added to their weapon power multiplied by the number of injured allies in the party at the cost of 1 Ether; the drained health is then distributed evenly to all allies. The virtuoso also gains gold equal to the number of allies healed times the number of enemies damaged.

2. EXTRA CRITICAL POISONED HIT/HEAL MUCH MORE: The virtuoso attacks the target with venomous, Poison-inducing words and deals damage equal to three times their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the virtuoso can restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their extra critical hit, at the cost of 1 ether.

3. POISONED HIT/HEAL: The virtuoso attacks the target with venomous, Poison-inducing words and deals damage equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, the virtuoso can and restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to the power of their hit, at the cost of 1 ether.

4. SWINDLE/HEAL LESS: The virtuoso steals health equal to twice the enemy’s level, plus the same amount of gold and ether if they have either. Alternatively, the virtuoso can restore health to themselves or one of their allies equal to their level, at the cost of 1 ether.

5. POISONOUS DEFENSE/NO HEAL: The virtuoso is struck by the opponent’s attack, but their caustic

swearing

reply poisons the opponent in the process. Alternatively, any attempt of healing an ally fails.

6. SPECIAL MIRROR/NO HEAL: The virtuoso is struck by the opponent’s special skill, but reflects it back to cause the same effect on the opponent. Alternatively, any attempt of healing fails.

Was also thinking that perhaps it would be balanced slightly more if the Virtuoso doesn't start off with the default songs of the Minstrel, but has to make due exclusively with extra songs.

OH! Suggested SHIELD-skill for the Mystic Warden:

1. SHIELD:

Omnislash:

The Mystic Warden enchants their weapon with one of the elements available to them at the cost of 1 Ether, then attacks the target twice and every other enemy once. If the target survives, the Mystic Warden then spends an additional 1 Ether to Mark the target, causing all damage to and from the enemy party during the next Round to be redirected to the target.

Gotta say, I'm really liking some of the ideas I'm coming up with for this theoretical Mystic Warden class.

[Masked Builder]

I still want Ranger-Mage-Rogue... (Basically an Assassin with magic. )

[CMP]

I'd also like to see a Barbarian-Ranger-Rogue combo (i.e. Hunter meets Assassin), but that'd obviously end poorly.

I started planning that class under the name Executioner.

[Lind Whisperer]

I started planning that class under the name Executioner.

I was thinking about suggesting "Scourge" as a name.

[Sandy]

Alright, then. Here's my suggestion for the new and improved Dragoon. The pet dragon is now fully controllable but the Dragon's Wrath was weakened a notch. Does it seem balanced to you guys?

Dragoon – These cavaliers are accompanied by a dragon that grows with them.

*Additional Health: +15

*Weapons: Dragoons can only wield polearms like halberds, lances and spears, but they can also use shields.

*Job Traits: Diplomacy (see Knight), Pet Dragon – The dragoon has a pet dragon that can fly to scout, carry messages or retrieve items for them; Dragon Tamer – The dragoon can communicate with dragons to gain information and prevent them from attacking.

*Battle Style: Draconian – Dragoons are aided by their pet dragon in battles.

1. SHIELD:

Dragon’s Wrath

– The dragoon attacks in unison with their pet dragon. The attack depends on the maturity of the dragon. If either the dragoon or their dragon is knocked out, only the standing one’s attack is executed (see

Dragon’s Wrath

).

2. JUMP HIT: The dragoon jumps into the air and hovers there aided by their dragon until the next round, avoiding all damage. On the next round the dragoon lands on the target with strength equal to five times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 x 5 + Level 30 = 105 damage) If the pet dragon has been knocked out, the dragoon delivers a normal hit.

3. HIT: The dragoon attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP 15 + Level 30 = 45 damage)

4. DRAGON AID: The dragoon misses their attack, but the pet dragon hits the target instead with strength equal to its level regardless of row. If the dragon’s elemental property has manifested, the attack is elemental. If the dragon is knocked out, nothing happens.

5. DEFLECTED DAMAGE: The dragoon is struck by the opponent’s attack. The power of the dragoon’s shield decreases the effect of the attack and has a 1/6 chance of blocking the attack completely.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The dragoon is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Pet Dragon:

All new dragoons between levels 30-39 are given a dragon egg that soon hatches, revealing their personal pet dragon. The dragon gets attached to the dragoon, who in turn gives it a name.

If the dragoon is level 40 or above, they receive an already hatched dragon instead of an egg. In that case the dragon mistrusts its companion, more the bigger it has already grown. The level of mistrust stays the same when the dragon grows to the next stage, though. At level 40, chance of mistrust is 1/4; at level 50, chance mistrust is 1/2; at level 60 and above, chance of mistrust is 3/4.

The pet dragon acts as an extra party member with its own statistics and turns. All of its attacks are ranged, so they ignore row. At level 40, it gains an elemental property chosen by the dragoon.

The pet dragon can be healed and revived the same way heroes can, and it is susceptible to all effects. It cannot carry or use items.

Note that if either the dragoon or the pet dragon is knocked out at the end of a battle, neither one gets experience.

Pet Dragon

Level: equal to the dragoon’s and grows with them

Base Health: 30 (+1 per level up)

Element: manifests at Level 40, chosen by the Dragoon

Mistrust: chance for the pet dragon to disobey and not act, decided by an extra roll each time the dragon acts (does not concern pet dragons acquired between levels 30-39).

The pet dragon fights with the following skills, attacking the target the dragoon commands:

1. SHIELD:

Dragon’s Wrath

– The dragoon attacks in unison with their pet dragon. The attack depends on the maturity of the dragon. If either the dragoon or their dragon is knocked out, only the standing one’s attack is executed (see

Dragon’s Wrath

).

2.-4. BREATH: The pet dragon deals damage equal to their level to the target regardless of row. If the dragon’s elemental property has manifested, the attack is elemental.

5. DAMAGE: The pet dragon is struck by the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The pet dragon is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

Dragon’s Wrath:

Both the dragoon and the pet dragon can initiate a special unison attack by rolling a SHIELD. The attack changes when the dragon reaches the next stage of maturity.

Level 30: The dragon is but a hatchling, only able to fly short distances and carry light loads. It is roughly the size of a cat.

Dragon’s Wrath: Devil on the Shoulder

– The dragoon attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. The pet dragon sits on their shoulder and breathes acid on the target with strength equal to two times their level regardless of row (e.g. Dragoon’s WP 15 x 2 + Level 30 + Pet Dragon’s Level 30 x 2 = 120 damage)

Level 40: The dragon is a youngling, and begins to showcase an elemental property. It can now fly further and faster, and can carry heavy items. It is roughly the size of a wolf. If the hero becomes a dragoon for the first time at this stage, there is a 1/4 chance that the dragon disobeys orders and does not perform its part in the Dragon's Wrath.

Dragon’s Wrath: Fury From Above

– The dragoon drives their weapon into the target with strength equal to three times their weapon power added to their level. The pet dragon hovers above the dragoon and its elemental breath damages the target as well as the two enemies listed above and under with strength equal to two times their level regardless of row (e.g. Dragoon’s WP 15 x 3 + Level 40 = 85 damage to the target; Pet Dragon’s Level 40 x 2 = 80 elemental damage to three enemies)

Level 50: The dragon has reached adulthood, and can now carry the dragoon on its back for long distances. It is roughly the size of a horse. If the hero becomes a dragoon for the first time at this stage, there is a 1/2 chance that the dragon disobeys orders and does not perform its part in the Dragon's Wrath.

Dragon’s Wrath: High Assault

– The dragoon mounts the pet dragon and jumps on the target with strength equal to four times their weapon power added to their level. The pet dragon then circles the battle field and its elemental breath damages all enemies with strength equal to two times their level regardless of row (e.g. Dragoon’s WP 15 x 4 + Level 50 = 110 damage to the target; Pet Dragon’s Level 50 x 2 = 100 elemental damage to all enemies)

Level 60: The dragon is now an elder, having reached its maximum size equal to a mammoth. It can carry an entire party on its back for as long as necessary. If the hero becomes a dragoon for the first time at this stage, there is a 3/4 chance that the dragon disobeys orders and does not perform its part in Dragon's Wrath.

Dragon’s Wrath: Celestial Force

– The elder dragon swoops up the entire party on its back, and together they damage all enemies with their combined power. Each hero damages one enemy with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level, and the elder dragon’s elemental breath damages all enemies with strength equal to the number of heroes times their level regardless of row (e.g. Hero A’s WP 15 x 2 + Level 60 = 90 damage to first enemy; Hero B’s WP 10 x 2 + Level 55 = 75 damage to second enemy; Hero C’s WP 10 x 2 + Level 50 = 70 damage to third enemy; Elder Dragon’s Level 60 x 3(number of heroes) = 180 elemental damage to all enemies)

[Asphalt]

Sounds good

[swils]

Need I say more?

[UsernameMDM]

Dig it. Dragons take Free Hits?

[swils]

Just gonna knock out a bunch of possibilities here, some of these might be pretty obvious but bear with me, heh.

1. I liked the name High Assault! D: (For the roll of 2* Skimmed over it being reassigned to one of the Dragon Wrath levels, whoops! Ignore this, heh)

2. Do they act fully independently of each other, especially concerning Dragon's Wrath and Jump Hit?

Example:

Battle order, both are standing:

Thormanil

Arx

Thormy rolls a 1 (Dragon's Wrath full effect)

Arx... rolls? Or shares in Thormy's Dragon Wrath and that counts as his action?

Or, if:

Thormy rolls a 2 (Begins Jump Hit)

Arx... rolls? Or finishes the Jump Hit?

3. Does Dragon's Wrath ignore row for all the damage, or just the Dragon's part? Just slightly confused by the wording.

4. As a separate entity, can Dragons buff up via consumables? I'd assume they're susceptible to all the various status effects, now.

4a. Effects on the Dragoon only affect the Dragoon's part of the dual-action rolls, and the same is true for the Dragons, right? So an Encouraged Dragoon with a Weakened Dragon, on a SHIELD roll, would do (level 30) (((2xWP)+(Level))x2) + ((2xLevel)x0.5), rather than just cancelling out the Encouraged vs Weakened, right?

5. Would an Encouraged Dragoon double all the incoming player-damage on the L60+ roll, or just their own? So 2x(Thormy+Teammate1+Teammate2), or (Teammate1+Teammate2)+(2xThormy)

Edited January 8, 2015 by swils

[Zepher]

Looks like we'll need to test drive it a little to iron out some of the minute details, but it looks awesome to me.

[Flare]

I think we should consider some ultra-specific classes for past Level 50, maybe new classes for Levels 70, 90? At Level 50 we have Paragon and Prophet which are extremely useful for a large variety of purposes, but some extremely powerful but limited classes would be cool to see.

[Flipz]

I assume the name for the first level of Dragon's Wrath is a reference to 120?

I share my concerns with Swils, though I think I know the answers to most of our questions (but still, better to confirm now than it come up later).

If we keep the name of the Dragoon's 2 roll as High Assault, perhaps the third level of Dragon's Wrath could be called Skyward Strike? (Or actually, we could just use Skyward Strike in place of the name Jump Hit directly )

I think we should consider some ultra-specific classes for past Level 50, maybe new classes for Levels 70, 90? At Level 50 we have Paragon and Prophet which are extremely useful for a large variety of purposes, but some extremely powerful but limited classes would be cool to see.

I don't know, I like Level 50 being the point at which everything evens out and becoming more of a numbers game. Level 50 is attainable, with effort, for players without a Medal of Glory; anything higher ends up being somewhat ridiculous. (And besides, isn't outpacing content one of the drawbacks of the Medal anyway? )

[Bricksandparts]

So with those rules, assuming you became a dragoon at level 60, would the pet dragon work 100% once you got to level 70?

[Khorne]

Oooh, I like the idea of that Virtuoso class .

[UsernameMDM]

So with those rules, assuming you became a dragoon at level 60, would the pet dragon work 100% once you got to level 70?

If the dragoon is level 40 or above, they receive an already hatched dragon instead of an egg. In that case the dragon mistrusts its companion, more the bigger it has already grown. The level of mistrust stays the same when the dragon grows to the next stage, though. At level 40, chance of mistrust is 1/4; at level 50, chance mistrust is 1/2; at level 60 AND ABOVE, chance of mistrust is 3/4.

Edited January 8, 2015 by UsernameMDM

[Kintobor]

I think my only real complaint is Dragon Tamer. Can't most dragons talk, though? I mean, dragon's are generally depicted as intelligent, sentient creatures, so having a skill called Dragon Tamer seems a little off, I suppose. Is it basically Diplomacy when speaking to dragons?

Other than that, I see no real issues.

[UsernameMDM]

Dragon Whisperer

Dragon Spirit

Dragon Kindred

Dragon Happy Lucky Forever Friend

[Lind Whisperer]

Dragon Whisperer

"Now, the first thing you have to know about your pet dragon, is that 90% of the time, it's not the dragon that's causing all of the problems, it's the human..."

[Sandy]

Just gonna knock out a bunch of possibilities here, some of these might be pretty obvious but bear with me, heh.

1. I liked the name High Assault! D: (For the roll of 2* Skimmed over it being reassigned to one of the Dragon Wrath levels, whoops! Ignore this, heh)

2. Do they act fully independently of each other, especially concerning Dragon's Wrath and Jump Hit?

Example:

Battle order, both are standing:

Thormanil

Arx

Thormy rolls a 1 (Dragon's Wrath full effect)

Arx... rolls? Or shares in Thormy's Dragon Wrath and that counts as his action?

Or, if:

Thormy rolls a 2 (Begins Jump Hit)

Arx... rolls? Or finishes the Jump Hit?

3. Does Dragon's Wrath ignore row for all the damage, or just the Dragon's part? Just slightly confused by the wording.

4. As a separate entity, can Dragons buff up via consumables? I'd assume they're susceptible to all the various status effects, now.

4a. Effects on the Dragoon only affect the Dragoon's part of the dual-action rolls, and the same is true for the Dragons, right? So an Encouraged Dragoon with a Weakened Dragon, on a SHIELD roll, would do (level 30) (((2xWP)+(Level))x2) + ((2xLevel)x0.5), rather than just cancelling out the Encouraged vs Weakened, right?

5. Would an Encouraged Dragoon double all the incoming player-damage on the L60+ roll, or just their own? So 2x(Thormy+Teammate1+Teammate2), or (Teammate1+Teammate2)+(2xThormy)

1. Okay, ignoring it.

2. Yes, they both have separate turns and the rolls do not affect each other. That means there can be two Dragon Wraths in one round if they're lucky, or even four if they're both hastened.

3. Just the dragon part. I thought the wording made it clear....

4. I already wrote "pet dragons are susceptible to all effects" in the rules, so that should answer your question.

4A. I repeat, the dragoon and the pet dragon act independently, their effects do not affect each other any more than the rolls.

5. I repeat again...

[swils]

Like I said, some might have been (were) pretty obvious, but I was reading/posting from work, so bah! Thanks for the clarifications despite that, though.

Re: #3, Oh, duh, there's two separate sentences in the wording.

Re: #4, Who knows, maybe Olegaia's version of PETA would have something against feeding potions to our dragons? Heh

I think this new version of Dragoon should prove quite fearsome in the Arena, as well.

[CMP]

Re: #4, Who knows, maybe Olegaia's version of PETA would have something against feeding potions to our dragons? Heh

I think they'd be more concerned with the sudden decline of Olegaia's rat population.

[Sandy]

Apparently everyone (especially those who are playing Dragoon at the moment) are satisfied with the suggested changes? I'll make it official, then.

[LordoftheNoobs]

I have no intention of playing the class, but I think the new changes are great!

[UsernameMDM]

Trying to think of a mix between an Evoker/Beast Warrior/Sylvan Ranger. Uses magic/elemental/animal spirits and an animal companion...Totem Chanter. Or something like that.

Edited January 9, 2015 by UsernameMDM

[LordoftheNoobs]

Maybe Spirit Caller? Beast Master?