Yakuza Family - Day 2

[Tamamono]

Im gonna ask you how you know, since if I am right, this would mean you are in touch with not only a watcher, but a role cop too. Assuming you were already one or the other, and say 70% of us have actions (scum or town). The chance of you finding the other role and him telling the truth would be very low.

You also used the word "chats" which to me would imply more than one conversation about the same topic/person/night action. Now I don't believe for a second you could come up with a little group of at least three by day 2 like that. So either:

A-You have trusted the wrong people and they are playing you like a dog chew toy.

B-Some of them may be innocent and some scum which means the scum have just come into a lot of useful information.

C-You are right and they are all innocent and you managed to pull this off and find yourself a little Mutineer hunting group centred around you.

D-Your lying to us and are feeding us rubbish.

So which one is it then Ichirou?

I have been talking to a few people behind the scenes, and I found out that it is likely that Father was blocked by the scum blocker. That's all I'll say. Giving things away in the threads never helped anyone.

[Scubacarrot]

By logic that would mean there is a town blocker, who blocked def. Unless there is a third party element involved in this. Don't try to keep information behind, when you can put the pieces together in half a second .

[Tamamono]

By logic that would mean there is a town blocker, who blocked def. Unless there is a third party element involved in this. Don't try to keep information behind, when you can put the pieces together in half a second .

As far as I know, there are no third parties involved here. The town blocker, who we'll just call the Roadrunner for now, blocked Norio-sama last night. Happy?

[Eskallon]

I have been talking to a few people behind the scenes, and I found out that it is likely that Father was blocked by the scum blocker. That's all I'll say. Giving things away in the threads never helped anyone.

Hmm, I still have to wonder how quickly you made contact and formed an alliance, especially since you found a watcher and a Investigator/Role Cop. You can't blame for finding that suspicious can you now Ichirou?

[Rufus]

And after some chats behind the scenes, it appears that you were blocked by the scum blocker (assuming too many people aren't lying).

You're implying that several people have told you privately that Norio was blocked by the town blocker. Norio, who you think is town (sorry, pro-town) for 'meta-reasons'. So I take it that this blocker came forward to several people, said, 'I'm the town blocker! I blocked Norio!' and you all believed him/her.

I find it unlikely that you could know for sure that Nobuo was targeted by the scum blocker - unless, of course, you've been talking to the scum blocker, and they confirmed to you that they did indeed target Nobuo, and are indeed scum.

This response - how would you put it? - 'reeks of scum'.

[Eskallon]

*wonder about

[Rick]

I guess I was just a bit impulsive yesterday. I gotta watch that. First-day jitters and whatnot.

That's all you have to say for yourself?

I have been talking to a few people behind the scenes, and I found out that it is likely that Father was blocked by the scum blocker. That's all I'll say. Giving things away in the threads never helped anyone.

As far as I know, there are no third parties involved here. The town blocker, who we'll just call the Roadrunner for now, blocked Norio-sama last night. Happy?

But aren't we too easily assuming there is only one blocker on our side? One of the blockers may have been trying to protect either father Nobuo or Norio and blocked them in the process (jailkeeper). I wouldn't dismiss that as unlikely considering the size of our family.

[Cecilie]

As far as I know, there are no third parties involved here. The town blocker, who we'll just call the Roadrunner for now, blocked Norio-sama last night. Happy?

You seem very sure that this person who has claimed blocker to you is town

[Tamamono]

Hmm, I still have to wonder how quickly you made contact and formed an alliance, especially since you found a watcher and a Investigator/Role Cop. You can't blame for finding that suspicious can you now Ichirou?

What? I never said I found a watcher and an investigator/role cop. I found the blocker, and he/she claimed to me, for whatever reason. I'm hoping to get him/her checked out tonight.

You're implying that several people have told you privately that Norio was blocked by the town blocker. Norio, who you think is town (sorry, pro-town) for 'meta-reasons'. So I take it that this blocker came forward to several people, said, 'I'm the town blocker! I blocked Norio!' and you all believed him/her.

No, I've been talking to the blocker who told me he/she blocked Norio-sama. No one else told me that the blocker blocked Norio-sama. I heard it from Roadrunner himself/herself, if he/she really is the blocker. Like I said before, I'd like to get him/her checked out tonight.

And this is another ridiculous accusation by you. You think that since I think Norio-sama is town that everyone thinks he's town? The logic in that assumption made by you is so bad it hurts. What's to say that the blocker isn't on the same page as you when it comes to suspecting Norio-sama?

I find it unlikely that you could know for sure that Nobuo was targeted by the scum blocker - unless, of course, you've been talking to the scum blocker, and they confirmed to you that they did indeed target Nobuo, and are indeed scum.

I used a simple process of deduction - two people complaining about being blocked, and someone claims to have blocked one of them. It only makes sense that the other blocker targeted the other one. Sure, there are other explanations. I'm just working with Occam's Razor here.

You're just scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for reasons to suspect me, Momoe. I am almost completely sure you're scum.

But aren't we too easily assuming there is only one blocker on our side? One of the blockers may have been trying to protect either father Nobuo or Norio and blocked them in the process (jailkeeper). I wouldn't dismiss that as unlikely considering the size of our family.

Oh yes, good thinking, Kin-kun! I believe hijacker also gives blocked messages. However, both Father and Norio-sama say they were hit on the head with the hilt of a katana - I don't think that's a very 'protector' sort of action.

You seem very sure that this person who has claimed blocker to you is town

I'm not 'very sure' he's town. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If, later, there is any indication that he/she is scum, then I'd be more than happy to fling him/her into the dragon's mouth myself.

Wait - now that I think about it - if both blockers use katana hilts, then it would be possible for the scum blocker to pretend to be the town one. Thank you, Yoshiko-san, Momoe-san, and Noriko-san for helping me to get this 'a-ha!' moment. Now I'll be doubly sure to get Roadrunner checked out tonight.

[Scubacarrot]

Just a small thing, first you say you have not found an investigator, then you say you are sure to check this guy out, please explain...

[Tamamono]

Just a small thing, first you say you have not found an investigator, then you say you are sure to check this guy out, please explain...

I'm working on finding a way.

[Eskallon]

What? I never said I found a watcher and an investigator/role cop. I found the blocker, and he/she claimed to me, for whatever reason. I'm hoping to get him/her checked out tonight.

Wait - now that I think about it - if both blockers use katana hilts, then it would be possible for the scum blocker to pretend to be the town one. Thank you, Yoshiko-san, Momoe-san, and Noriko-san for helping me to get this 'a-ha!' moment. Now I'll be doubly sure to get Roadrunner checked out tonight.

Oh that makes more sense, I for some odd reason assumed you had thought you found the scum blocker and were getting him checked out tonight. I knew I went wrong somewhere.

But I am sorry to go back in a circle and you are correct with your second point outlined above that he could be lying. However you have been able to contact not just the blocker (which is understandable) but also the investigator? Since you are hoping to get the blocker checked out tonight. Now whoever it was that role claimed to be investigator to you on day 1 is extremely stupid or must have a pretty good reason to do so.

Oh and yet again someone posts before me and the answer was already given.

[Rick]

No, I've been talking to the blocker who told me he/she blocked Norio-sama. No one else told me that the blocker blocked Norio-sama. I heard it from Roadrunner himself/herself, if he/she really is the blocker. Like I said before, I'd like to get him/her checked out tonight.

But you clearly implied you're talking to more than one person and your 'blocker story' relies on what more than one person has been saying to you:

And after some chats behind the scenes, it appears that you were blocked by the scum blocker (assuming too many people aren't lying).

Wait - now that I think about it - if both blockers use katana hilts, then it would be possible for the scum blocker to pretend to be the town one. Thank you, Yoshiko-san, Momoe-san, and Noriko-san for helping me to get this 'a-ha!' moment. Now I'll be doubly sure to get Roadrunner checked out tonight.

I don't think the blockers can choose how to block their targets, let alone that the scum blocker knows the town blocker's MO before night 1.

If you don't believe that the two blockers use the same MO, it can only say something about the truthfulness of their target's claims of being blocked.

[Tamamono]

This is going too far. I'm not saying anything else. Sharing this much info in-thread only helps the scum.

[CMP]

There's a difference between doubting lynch suspects and avoiding a lynch. When the Town doubts that any of the suspects are Scum, the Scum have an opportunity to control the lynch if they can convince the doubting Townies to believe the Scum's reasoning. (as opposed to Townies confident in their suspects, who won't be convinced so easily)

Are you being sarcastic when you call not voting fantastic, or are you being sarcastic when you say that you would bring up not voting if you wanted us to doubt lynches? If it's the former, I want to point out that suggesting that we not vote is so obvious. It draws a lot of attention, in my opinion.

I wasn't avoiding a lynch. When the votes opened I voted. I guess I could see how my comments could come across as trying to throw the lynch into doubt, but it certainly wasn't my intention.

As to the not voting idea, I was being sarcastic about suggesting it because I've read many plays, and those who usually bring up that idea get lynched, and I can't help seeing similarities between those people and me.

Well, now I have to catch up. One moment.

[Rick]

This is going too far. I'm not saying anything else. Sharing this much info in-thread only helps the scum.

No one is pushing you for more information. We all know how important it is to keep some information classified. People are merely pointing out inconsistencies in your story.

[JimBee]

There's also the fact that there are probably more than two blockers among 30+ of us. The two in question could both be town, or someone is lying to Ichirou, or a whole slew of other factors. Basing the "truth" off of what one person says is hardly a good idea, and of course I think that Roadrunner should be checked out tonight, but who can you really trust, Ichriou? Who's to say you inner circle consists of scum? I'd be very careful if I were you.

[MetroiD]

Who's to say you inner circle consists of scum? I'd be very careful if I were you.

That is a very valid concern, but then again there's always the possibility that this huge family of ours has an "organisation within the organisation" of sorts, and one that is not necessarily full of Mutineers. Some people might refer to members of such organisations as Masons, and while I'm not sure whether Masonry has too much of a following here in Japan, or in our Yakuza circles, I do believe that if there were such a thing going on behind the scenes at this family, it would be wise if that organisation was allowed to expand, based on concrete evidence. That said, if there was such an organisation, it should have been capable of supplying us loyal Yakuzas with much more specific information on which to base our actions, so I might be very wrong in even considering this possibility.

[Capt. Redblade]

That's all you have to say for yourself?

That is all I have to say for myself, because that's the only explanation there is. I have no ulterior motives, and certainly no scummy ones. If you will not take this statement as fact, then I welcome the scrutiny of the Town Cop.

[Scubacarrot]

That is all I have to say for myself, because that's the only explanation there is. I have no ulterior motives, and certainly no scummy ones. If you will not take this statement as fact, then I welcome the scrutiny of the Town Cop.

Excuse me for saying it, but that is a very shitty attitude, someone called you on behaviour that is very suspicious, and you don't even bother to properly respond, and instead say you should get investigated?? Why did you even sign up for this, if you are not going to play the game?

[Capt. Redblade]

Excuse me for saying it, but that is a very shitty attitude, someone called you on behaviour that is very suspicious, and you don't even bother to properly respond, and instead say you should get investigated?? Why did you even sign up for this, if you are not going to play the game?

I am not saying I should get investigated, I am saying that I would not oppose an investigation into my activities if one were deemed necessary, and I would not oppose said investigation because I have nothing to hide. I deem my previous response a proper one, because, as I said, it simply is the only explanation I have to offer. Were my actions impulsive? Yes. Were they sheepish? Perhaps so. Were they a collectively stupid move that might have resulted in me completely kneecapping myself? The more I think about it, yeah. Were they scummy? Absolutely not, and whatever course of action is seen fit to prove my innocence is one for I which I will lead the crusade.

On another note, do I see why I am being persecuted? Yes. Do I take offence to the persecution? No, it is natural that people will point fingers at behaviour as (admittedly) erratic as mine in the early days. But do I take offence to your attitude? Most certainly, and I hope any further accusations levied at me will be levied in a more civil tongue.

[Peanuts]

That said, if there was such an organisation, it should have been capable of supplying us loyal Yakuzas with much more specific information on which to base our actions, so I might be very wrong in even considering this possibility.

How would that not-quite-Mason, assuming it exists, get specific information? They would not be any smarter than us "normal" Yakuza, except for the fact that they know each other. This doesn't mean that they know who's been awake in the night or who is claiming correctly and who's not. While such an organization would give us a large advantage over the Mutineers, they would not be omniscient, Kumicho. So we can't be sure there is one.

That said, let's not get speculating too much. With the large number of us and the large number of things one might commit at night, we could speculate for days without getting any results. If we had any reason to believe there might be such a group, we could talk further, but right now let's rather focus on matters at hand, such as the actions of the people assembled in this temple, instead of speculating about the setup of this situation.

[Nightshroud99]

I guess I was just a bit impulsive yesterday. I gotta watch that. First-day jitters and whatnot.

Most of us were uneasy about this whole ordeal, but in life and death this isn't an excuse.

Also, please excuse me for my absence earlier today, I was busy working on my craft. I am not surprised that Yasu was a mutineer, near the end it was quite obvious. I have one suspect in particular that has stood out to me since yesterday; some share my sentiments on this matter.

Okay (not ok-ey) dokey, here are a few more people I'm suspicious of:

Isamu-kun: Defended Yasu-chan fervently at the beginning of the Day. If he's scum and she's not, then he knows it will look good for him if he defends her and she gets lynched and comes up town. Defending townies is one of the best ways to appear town.

Tamiko-san: One of the quiet ones, but when she spoke up, it was completely 100% unhelpful. Maybe this can be attributed to inexperience, maybe not.

Shizuku-san: Again. She's taking the kind of 'middle road' the scum would want to take.

Out of everyone, I'm still the most suspicious of Emi-chan. I hate having to base something on metagaming like this, but she reeks of scum to me. I suppose I should put my vote where my mouth is:

Vote: Emi (Brickdoctor)

This is after the voting started; Yasu-chan was getting votes. Indeed Ichirou (Tammo) was most suspicious of Emi-chan, who has been playing a very strong pro-town game. Though I don't believe she has been confirmed yet..

Also, Ichirou was very upset when the scummy Yasu claimed early, after he told her not to in private. I am not sure why he took her word for it and why he believed her sooo much... See here:

:wall:

Great job, Yasu-chan. Great job. Voting hasn't even started yet and already you've cracked under the pressure and claimed.

Here is Yasu-chans claim.

Blow it, I will reveal what ichirou told me not to do unless I was an immediate lynch target.

I am the Town Role cop.

In retrospect I feel that this is very suspicious; I urge everyone to listen to the tape recordings from yesterday and specifically listen to what Ichirou has said.

[Tamamono]

This is after the voting started; Yasu-chan was getting votes. Indeed Ichirou (Tammo) was most suspicious of Emi-chan, who has been playing a very strong pro-town game. Though I don't believe she has been confirmed yet..

Once again, I thought Emi-chan was scum for meta reasons. She did bring up the vote against a scum, though, so now it looks like she's town.

Also, Ichirou was very upset when the scummy Yasu claimed early, after he told her not to in private. I am not sure why he took her word for it and why he believed her sooo much... See here:

I am a sucker for roleclaims. Seriously, my philosophy in this game was going to be 'everyone is guilty until proven innocent', and now it appears to have changed to 'everyone is guilty until proven innocent unless they claim a power role, in which case they're innocent'.

In retrospect I feel that this is very suspicious; I urge everyone to listen to the tape recordings from yesterday and specifically listen to what Ichirou has said.

Sure, I made a huge mistake yesterday, but that doesn't make me scum. I defended Yasu-chan tooth and nail yesterday - why would I do something like that if I were scum? And why would I show my reaction like that in-thread? I remember a past life in which I was a scummy archaeologist, and a character a lot like Shizuko, who happened to be on my team, made a huge slipup. Did I react in public? No sir! I played it cool in public and ranted at the rest of my team in private. What makes now any different? Oh yeah, because I'm town this time.

[Brickdoctor]

I guess I was just a bit impulsive yesterday. I gotta watch that. First-day jitters and whatnot.

I suppose that's a reasonable explanation. You don't seem to have made any attempt to improve your play, but it's reasonable.

I wasn't avoiding a lynch. When the votes opened I voted. I guess I could see how my comments could come across as trying to throw the lynch into doubt, but it certainly wasn't my intention.

Like I said, you weren't avoiding the lynch. I never said you were avoiding the lynch. I said you could have been trying to cast doubt on the lynch, and I also specifically said that there was a difference between casting doubt on a lynch and avoiding a lynch. Either you misread my statement or you are being overly defensive. Or maybe both.

Were my actions impulsive? Yes. Were they sheepish? Perhaps so. Were they a collectively stupid move that might have resulted in me completely kneecapping myself? The more I think about it, yeah. Were they scummy? Absolutely not, and whatever course of action is seen fit to prove my innocence is one for I which I will lead the crusade.

Incorrect. Were they Scummy? Yes. That is why I suspect you. I wouldn't suspect you if your actions weren't Scummy. You were a sheep, you jumped on three different people, you voted for one person when there were stronger cases against two others whom you had previously suspected, you seemed very eager to agree with whoever accused someone else, and you made a really bad excuse for inactivity, which no one had pointed out about you anyways. That's Scummy, or at the very least the sign of an inexperienced sheep who isn't helping. (and thus only helps the Scum) Are you, in fact, a Scum? I don't know. But did you act like one? Yes, you did.