Discussion Should LEGO make a Military Theme?

[LEGO Historian]

The only actual military vehicle TLG ever made was a Chevrolet military truck from 1952-57, the 906 Chevrolet at 1:43 scale with steering knob on the rooftop...

This was one in a series of 20 different Chevrolet trucks (such as gravel or coal dump trucks, Esso or BP tanker trucks, or Milk, Esso and BP barrel trucks, as well as Chevrolet wagons for ambulances, police wagons, aviation fuel trucks, etc).

The 1:43 Chevrolet Trucks came in about 40 different models and attachments, and were sold in Denmark, Norway and a limited number in Iceland. Interestingly enough the 906 Military Truck was only sold in Denmark. Norway, which suffered much worse in WWII than did Denmark, did not sell this 906 Truck... they sold 901 thru 905... and then starting with the 907 truck and beyond.

I'm currently finishing research on these unique LEGO Chevrolet Trucks and Wagons, and creating a 60 page collectors guide about them. These were never part of LEGOs "System of Play".

No other LEGO vehicle has been produced since the 1950s that is remotely military... except for the antique airplane models of the 21st century.

Edited December 31, 2013 by LEGO Historian

[Ralph_S]

And my nephew would be one of them.

But how much media attention does it get in The Netherlands?

How many soldiers do we in total have in conflict zones?

The Netherlands is a small country with a small military.

We never play a major role, allways a supporting role wich is allways downplayed.

I am sorry for your loss.

Dutch troops have been deployed abroad ever since the end of the Cold War and that, perhaps unfortunately, isn't publicised. I think the mission in Uruzgan, in particular, was neither small nor just supporting. It involved about 1400 troops at any given time, excluding the Air Force F-16 detachment and it was very much in the news, certainly when people did get killed. The Dutch participation in Bosnia wasn't particularly small either and has been very well publicised, if only because of the failure in Srebrenica.

That aside, I think we are actually on the same side in this argument. Perhaps a military theme is less objectionable to people who live in a country that hasn't been involved in a major conflict, but even in small a country with a small military that is usually involved in supporting actions, people will be affected.

Ralph

[TheOrcKing]

Just think the Jabba Palace was cancelled and it's out of production because of this reason....

Nothing changed with Jabba's Palace and Lego didn't cave in to anyone. They continued to produce and sell the set for as long as they originally intended which was right up until the end of 2013 from everything I read.

Edited December 31, 2013 by TheOrcKing

[Blast]

Not opposed to Military Vehicles but I don't think an entire theme is needed.

These two jeeps count right?

Edited December 31, 2013 by Blast

[SheepEater]

I know they swore many times that it was against their "core" values (I don't get it, but oh well).

Regardless, if they DID a WW2 theme that sold quality sets looking like these:

http://www.tractionwars.com/rec-room/2127-lego-genius-rebuilds-wwii-vehicles-set-pieces-age-14-a.html

Do you think little kids would rush to the store to buy them or it would mostly be a teen/adult collector thing?

[ReplicaProfile]

I would enjoy them, but they'd probably be too expensive. As for kids I would have probably not had the attention span to build them though.

[Gremer]

Kids would love them. Kids love war, so anything war-ish would be eaten up by kids.

[Dhivael]

They probably would. They're legos, regardless of if there's a war theme or not, although kids tend to build tanks and warships and stuff anyway. That said, TLG won't, and TLG shouldn't. And I for one am glad of that.

[Darth Dino]

Hi

it depends on the parents and what they teach their children about war. My kids will defenitely NOT loving them plus i would never buy this for them.

I can understand that in some "US households" where real weapons are part of the normal life kids will love that. If "daddy" gots a real gun, why not having them weapon playset?

Its all about education, and i, for my part am against them.

Edit: I guess you will hardly fing EU citizens suporting weapons and war stuff as some in the US and/or Canada do.

Dino

Edited March 22, 2014 by Darth Dino

[Super Goblin]

It would be Lego's best selling line ever. Kids and adults would buy them up.

It think it's hypocritical to say modern war is a no go but every other theme is good vs. evil or one side vs. the other is ok. If it's a set based partially on real life it automatically makes if fantasy. So Lego's stance on this always seemed silly to me.

[rollermonkey]

The kids wouldn't love WWII themed sets.

As far as most kids under 12 are concerned, that theme is almost as much of a historical fantasy as is the medieval theme, due to pop cultural WWII references like Captain America, Indiana Jones, etc. I think they'd prefer a more generic period military theme, but at the same time, I think that kids are less interested in realistic war-play then previous generations. They still incorporate conflict and strife into their play, but I still think even then, they lean more towards futuristic concepts like space aliens, a la Halo, or fantasy combat in the vein of WoW or LOTR. For Millenials, WWII is something that happens in Call of Duty games, sad as that may seem.

Edited March 22, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Ojik]

Having seen Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade yesterday, I'm really sad they didn't release the tank scene as a set. It would be extremely popular and it was this line what proved that if it is neccessary, LEGO doesn't mind making a war-related sets, even the WWII and Nazis.

I'm not saying they should start making sets based on World Wars and such (I mean war conflicts from the 20th century, we are discussing tanks and cars and planes, not cavalry and Indians after all), but a basic military theme would make a justice. When I was much younger, I got a few Brick sets, which is a clone brand, only because they were military themed. And they were really nice. Even our local construction toy Cheva (google it, it's a great toy, similar to Lego, but not a rip-off, the system is different) had a military theme with a wide range of tanks and vehicles and I dare to say it must be one of the most popular themes. If LEGO dropped their fears and principles, they would have a well-selling, succesful theme.

[Gnac]

If such a thing were to happen, I would hope that the sets would be presented like those in the Architecture range: a black box with the model superimposed on a territory map, and a nice book where the building instructions are prefaced by some unnerving stories and statistics.

That'll keep everyone but the most determined of builders away, and allow TLG to pull it quickly, citing reasons of low demand and financial unviability.

But of course, making such sets in the first place could be considered bad taste. Several European countries still bear physical and mental scars from WW2, and the negative response from Veterans and Charities would certainly be a PR disaster.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Gnac

[Itaria No Shintaku]

They probably would, and LEGO NOT doing this even though they would earn a lot of money from them is one of the main reasons I still buy Lego.

Probably if Lego would produce WW2 toys, I would stop being an AFOL instantly.

[Super Goblin]

They probably would, and LEGO NOT doing this even though they would earn a lot of money from them is one of the main reasons I still buy Lego.

Probably if Lego would produce WW2 toys, I would stop being an AFOL instantly.

I find that to be silly. Lego made military figures in the Indiana Jones line and you still supported them. They have made military figures and vehicles as recent as the Man of Steel sets. People that have this stance are hypocrites.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I find that to be silly. Lego made military figures in the Indiana Jones line and you still supported them. They have made military figures and vehicles as recent as the Man of Steel sets. People that have this stance are hypocrites.

Oh I am very happy that you judge me, because:

1) I see supermen and people from planet Krypton every day, so -yes- I can call that modern warfare.

2) All archeologists I know go along collecting treasures with a nice hat and call themselves after a dog. And they mess with the Ark of the Coventant and the Saint Graal of course.

So yes, I can call that modern warfare too.

Did it even cross your mind that:

A - Military figures in those temes are THE EVIL (In a WW2 or war theme, there would be like for castles, two factions in war, so one faction should be military and "good")

B - People can reason differently from you and you not understanding their reasons could make you silly, not them.

I find that this:

But of course, making such sets in the first place could be considered bad taste. Several European countries still bear physical and mental scars from WW2, and the negative response from Veterans and Charities would certainly be a PR disaster.

very fitting, and it leads me to think that it's no mystery that one from England such as Gnac, one from Italy such as me and one from Germany such as Darth Dino are against... and typycally americans are for it: think about it. When your country will suffer within its boundaries the very misery of war itself, you won't find war that funny any more, you have my word.

I feel very offended from posts like that before, really.

[Rick]

You're all free to have different opinions on this issue, but please keep this discussion civilised and focused on arguments.

[RoboKnight]

I as a kid would have loved a WW2 theme, as for other kids, modern warfare seems to be more hip now anyways, but what I can say is basically that WW2 was doubtlessly the greatest tragedy in the 20th century, maybe ever, there are still veterans and holocaust survivers alive, and nazism is a real problem in europe and the usa. I would say quite loudly, NO.

(and it would be instantly banned in germany, i can tell you that )

Edited March 23, 2014 by RoboKnight

[Darth Dino]

I find that to be silly. Lego made military figures in the Indiana Jones line and you still supported them. They have made military figures and vehicles as recent as the Man of Steel sets. People that have this stance are hypocrites.

Hi

its not silly, its totally different! For one hArrison Ford get a bruise by running into a camera man in the second million people died. One is FICTION, one is HISTORY.

And this histoy is far nearer than any other warfare where Lego is producing sets of, e.g. medieval sets. Even the (medieval) countries never existing in this state anymore as they had been when the war was an actual thing. The WWII countries are still there and we still have issues because of this last WW in Europe here (e.g. former Yugoslavia, Ukraina...)

Im happy Lego never will produce that kind of sets.

Dino

[TheRedGuy]

They will probably sell just fine since kids just love warfare these days, but if Lego were ever to make a theme based on WW2, I would definitely be disgusted.

[Ojik]

A - Military figures in those temes are THE EVIL (In a WW2 or war theme, there would be like for castles, two factions in war, so one faction should be military and "good")

I don't want to argue with you again, I really don't, but the army wasn't the evil in Man of Steel movie. Zod and his gang were. The army tried to capture Superman at first because he was basically one of the attackers. If hostile aliens attack the Earth and you find out there's one super-dangerous and has been there all along, sure you want to catch him. After he proved himself to be on the side of the people, they let him go. I think LEGO allows military elements in spite of the story, not only if they are considered villains. And there even wasn't much in MoS sets: only a jeep and Colonel Hardy, that's it.

Since the discussion's is getting hot (no wonder), I have a suggestion. TLG won't produce WWII sets for sure, this topic is still too sensitive. So how about further discuss the possibility of LEGO making a basic, non-specified military theme. Would you mind, SheepEater?

[SheepEater]

. So how about further discuss the possibility of LEGO making a basic, non-specified military theme. Would you mind, SheepEater?

That would be just as good, so sure, I'd take it!

[ShaydDeGrai]

When I was kid, my dad and I used to build model air planes, tanks and ships together. While we worked on the models, my dad would tell me what it was like to hunker down during an air raid or how sick he got the first time he weathered rough seas and coastal artillery fire in a landing craft as a scared 19 year old about to see his first real combat. Those "toys" were the proverbial "teachable moment" before there was a term for such. When we finished the models, we displayed them like historical artifacts; neither I nor my sister ever "played" with them - in part because my mom drew a line in the sand and forbade it, but also because, by the time the model was done, it represented something I didn't really want to play with. I could appreciate the design and it's role in history, but seeing it in a true historical context took the play/fun out of it for me. Like any kid, I had my toy soldiers, cowboys and indians, aliens and space rangers, whatever - and that was fine - but there was always a distinct difference between a "space tank" and an actual "toy" Panzer or a medieval catapult vs a Howitzer.

I don't know that busy parents today would have the time or volition to sit down with their kids and put a realistic LEGO war machine in its proper context. Such models, sans teachable moments, might very well appeal to kids and that's probably exactly why TLG doesn't make those sorts of "toys".

Denmark had a front row seat for the rise of Nazi Germany and probably remembers, better than most, the days of the Hitler Youth when in addition to many other "social engineering experiments" (to put it far more kindly than it deserves) Nazi propagandists created entire toy lines to glorify the German war machine; from toy soldiers with recognizable insignia, to tanks and planes, to board games that teach strategy and allow kids to recreate famous German victories. At a time when kids in America were idolizing sports players and collecting baseball cards, Joseph Goebbels was printing collectable trading cards featuring prominent Nazi Party officials, soldiers who'd received the Iron Cross, and outstanding hardware like V2 rockets, Panzer tanks and various fighter planes. Confirmed kills for snipers in battles like Stalingrad were reported like batting averages to psych-up the kids learning to handle a rifle for the first time. It was an orchestrated campaign to indoctrinate youth to the idea of glorified warfare and loyalty to the state above all - and it created a lot of fanatics.

I'm sure Denmark hasn't forgotten, and personally I applaud TLG for not trying to commercialize, capitalize and trivialize a very dark time in our collective history. I have no problem with an AFOL making great MOCs of WWII hardware (and I've seen some fantastic ones) because you can't design a model like that without learning a thing or two in the process. I do have a problem with such a model showing up on the shelf at Toys R Us labelled appropriate for 7-12 yr olds.

[eurotrash]

Excellent post ShaydDeGrai.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Since the discussion's is getting hot (no wonder), I have a suggestion. TLG won't produce WWII sets for sure, this topic is still too sensitive. So how about further discuss the possibility of LEGO making a basic, non-specified military theme.

It wouldn't change a thing.

It would be however the worse move Lego could have done in its history.

Besides, there are a lot of Architecture sets that are discarded because they have something religious within it.

Even if the best buildings in the world are religion related, I'm ok that I would miss those sets as long as this is TLG's policy.