Historical stimulus package

[de Gothia]

Great work with that summary SI-mocs!!! Even if I started to look on this topic in the beginning it was quickly added more posts that I didn´t have the time to read so it was perfect!

[Ogre]

Ouhh, I feel the elven shield would be a great stimulus to me

Ditto!

[Sandy]

ISC has decided to start a group project - to build a micro map of the EB Castle world which can be used to plot various projects as they come along - details to follow.

There have been discussions of creating Guilds or Grouping of builders for a (likely) set period of time. There is a sign up thread for those wishing to participate. While it hasn't been defined exactly how the guilds will function - the general idea is that each guild will work together to produce MOCs and stories - these creations in turn generate points for each guild - with the guild with the highest number of points at a future date be awarded bragging rights (and maybe other fun stuff) for being kick megablocks.

It was discussed if each guild should be focused on certain themes or all guilds will cover all themes. The latter seems to be the approach that was best liked.

Challenges will likely be issued where all guilds must mobilize and build some theme - (see Siren's Post for possible themes). The exact mechanics has not really been determined - but people seem to like the idea to shift around the themes a bit to ensure that we pick up not just castle but ensure other historical themes are given their due - Western, Asian, Antiquities etc - This also serves as flexing our building skills.

Everything is still up for debate - so please add to the discussion

Thanks for the summary, SI-mocs! This recap is exactly what I was looking for.

Well, now that I've signed up, I might as well contribute to the discussion. I think the next issue we have to settle is whether the guilds/teams will focus on one alignment each, or whether all alignments be open to all guilds. In the latter case, the guilds must not be named after Siren's suggestions, though.

I'd suggest the building could be done in "rounds", with each round consisting of a task that's assigned to the guilds. For example, if the first task is building a Watch Tower, each guild would randomly be given one of the alignments. On another task, the alignments would be randomly lotted again. This way the guilds wouldn't be stuck on one theme for the whole duration of this project.

I do like Siren's suggestion for the alignments: lawful humans, chaotic humans, arcane races and evil races.

[Brickdoctor]

I think as far as alignment is concerned, each guild should consider itself to be good and all the other guilds to be evil. We're not adhering to the 'official' storylines, so we could always have, say, Dragon Knights and Lion Knights on the same side and consider them allies. (since, under the most popular naming scheme, they'd both be part of the Kingdoms of Men)

[dwarf-brik]

So, any ideas as to (too?) how we go about deciding who goes in what guild? I am, personally, not to hot on the idea of random assignment that is being thrown around...I have a bunch of Lion Knights and Troll Warriors, but if I got assigned to, say, the Arcane Guild, I would be outta luck, as I only have 5 Dwarves and no elves.

Also, I like the idea of the first build for each faction being a watchtower. Just 'sayin.

Edited November 5, 2011 by dwarf-brik

[Derfel Cadarn]

So, any ideas as to (too?) how we go about deciding who goes in what guild? I am, personally, not to hot on the idea of random assignment that is being thrown around...I have a bunch of Lion Knights and Troll Warriors, but if I got assigned to, say, the Arcane Guild, I would be outta luck, as I only have 5 Dwarves and no elves.

Also, I like the idea of the first build for each faction being a watchtower. Just 'sayin.

Do not worry, the idea is that no matter what guild you are in, you can build what you want. I agree with your concern, as I wouldn't want to be stuck in a group where all I am allowed to build is one type of moc. What ever guild I am placed in, I would want to be able to build what I wish, as restrictions will put people off. Once the guilds are decided then people should be able to post the best mocs they can of whatever scene they want to help secure their guild points. Obviously if a special guild event occurs then guilds would obviously have to build what they are told, but apart from that, the building should be open.

Also, I am still going to be working on my guide, although I do hope to finish it before Xmas, so I won't be posting many mocs before hand. But rest assured, once the guide is finished, I will unleash an onslaught of mocs to help my guild do well! I suppose I will be able to add my finished village to whatever guild im in?

[Sirens-of-Titan]

I suggest that we do the following so that people aren't worried about not being placed in a Guild they like: Each member who has signed up should go to their signup post and edit it with a list that ranks the 4 guilds from 1 (most desirable) to 4( least desirable)

This will give us an idea for distribution, and when it comes time to assign people we could grantee that you will get either your first or second choice guild. Also if any one guild becomes so unpopular that nobody wants to do it, we may just drop it and go with 3 Guilds instead.

Sound like a plan??

[Scorpiox]

Are Wizards and Mages in the Arcane/4th guild? As their race alternates and they don't really belong in Kingdoms of Men.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Scorpiox

[blueandwhite]

I suggest that we do the following so that people aren't worried about not being placed in a Guild they like: Each member who has signed up should go to their signup post and edit it with a list that ranks the 4 guilds from 1 (most desirable) to 4( least desirable)

This will give us an idea for distribution, and when it comes time to assign people we could grantee that you will get either your first or second choice guild. Also if any one guild becomes so unpopular that nobody wants to do it, we may just drop it and go with 3 Guilds instead.

Sound like a plan??

I'm still iffy on having members align themselves by theme preference. I would rather see fantasy fans, historical fans, western fans, outlaw/bandit fans and any other type of fans floating around coexist peacefully. Every guild needs their resident army builders, elf warriors, and history buffs. Honestly, why does a guild have to be built around a single theme or identity? Do we really need a guild dedicated to mages? I hope we see four guilds full of a diverse group of fans who bring different strengths and interests to their guild. If a fantasy contest comes up, the guild will have some interested participants. If a history challenge comes up; again the guild will have some champions to represent it. If this is really about building the community, then the guilds need to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

The last thing I'd want to see is the History forums devolve into a bunch of cliques that spout childish banter in every thread. If we end at the point where guilds are simply being dropped, the whole experiment seems pretty much null and void.

[Derfel Cadarn]

I'm still iffy on having members align themselves by theme preference. I would rather see fantasy fans, historical fans, western fans, outlaw/bandit fans and any other type of fans floating around coexist peacefully. Every guild needs their resident army builders, elf warriors, and history buffs. Honestly, why does a guild have to be built around a single theme or identity? Do we really need a guild dedicated to mages? I hope we see four guilds full of a diverse group of fans who bring different strengths and interests to their guild. If a fantasy contest comes up, the guild will have some interested participants. If a history challenge comes up; again the guild will have some champions to represent it. If this is really about building the community, then the guilds need to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

The last thing I'd want to see is the History forums devolve into a bunch of cliques that spout childish banter in every thread. If we end at the point where guilds are simply being dropped, the whole experiment seems pretty much null and void.

My point exactly, I really think it would work best like this. That way, members who don't have many bricks or figs for certain themes, will still be able to build what they want with the pieces available to them, and no one will be able to complain that they want to change guild. The last thing you want is people constantly asking to switch to another guild because they don't like making a certain theme.

[mikey]

Limiting people to building within certain parameters is not going to work for long. Maybe as a one off building challenge it could have some potential (i.e.: by a certain date people register with a defined guild, then they get two months to populate their world - MOCS make points). But in the long term I don't think anyone wants to be constrained to a certain theme - so the whole idea fades away.

I can see the point about a bit of friendly competition to foster the whole guild spirit, but also see a risk of fracture. I build a lot, but don't really finish much as sometimes I loose interest, so the motivation of finishing builds "for a reason", rather than my own tinkering is for me the benefit of some kind of guild system.

Really I think at the moment a good compromise that would get the ball rolling is a "traditional" community build, but split into two teams. A map, with building spaces split between the two teams - the building plots are assigned different functions (each team are given the same functional buildings). Maybe the teams are given time to choose VERY ROUGH styles, maybe a colour scheme? I have no idea how this would be 'judged', or any reason for it to be competitive - apart from to foster team spirit!

It would be a good introduction to doing this kind of project, that has a specific goal at the end, once we get to that point (and presumably enjoy the experience of working in teams) then we could start to create some more permanent teams (or guilds?) - which seem to have open ended objectives (unless I have not really understood what they are supposed to mean).

[Tazmaniac]

I'm still iffy on having members align themselves by theme preference. I would rather see fantasy fans, historical fans, western fans, outlaw/bandit fans and any other type of fans floating around coexist peacefully. Every guild needs their resident army builders, elf warriors, and history buffs. Honestly, why does a guild have to be built around a single theme or identity? Do we really need a guild dedicated to mages? I hope we see four guilds full of a diverse group of fans who bring different strengths and interests to their guild. If a fantasy contest comes up, the guild will have some interested participants. If a history challenge comes up; again the guild will have some champions to represent it. If this is really about building the community, then the guilds need to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

The last thing I'd want to see is the History forums devolve into a bunch of cliques that spout childish banter in every thread. If we end at the point where guilds are simply being dropped, the whole experiment seems pretty much null and void.

My point exactly, I really think it would work best like this. That way, members who don't have many bricks or figs for certain themes, will still be able to build what they want with the pieces available to them, and no one will be able to complain that they want to change guild. The last thing you want is people constantly asking to switch to another guild because they don't like making a certain theme.

I totally agree with the above statements, this initiative is supposed to unite the history forum users and provide some fun and comraderie amongst our members, not divide us into sub themes.

We've had some great response to the sign up thread so we should be able to get some groups sorted soon.

[Brickdoctor]

To me, the thing about splitting by theme is that it makes it very clear which guild an MOC belongs to, and above all, it's simple to figure out. Obviously, Lion Knights and Dragon Knights might have a numerical advantage because they're easiest to obtain, and Fright Knights might get left behind, but the point of the guilds should be to encourage building, not a serious competition between evenly matched teams. And if we didn't try to control the amount of people in each guild, then builders could join whichever one they wanted.

[Waterbrick Down]

First off, let me say, that this is turning into quite an interesting discussion. That said, my understanding of the gist of this topic thus far is as that we have two options (in reality we have more, but these are the ones drawing the most discussion):

1. Members are assigned to a guild that is faction/theme specific and only works on these types of creations, contests and challenges are formatted to generic ideas for a period of 2-3 months, i.e. build a watch tower, or guild crest, or army and each guild will approach this topic with the spin of their faction.

Benefits: People are able to build with what pieces they have available to them as well as build exclusively in the themes they enjoy. Teams are more focused on individuality and singularity of the members.

Concerns: As has already been stated this may serve to establish an atmosphere of cliques and divisiveness of the community. Additionally since some themes are bound to be more popular than others, the back stories and foundation of certain themes will never get developed.

2. Members are assigned to a guild that will eventually build on any faction/theme they want, contests and challenges are formatted to specific factions/themes, for a period of 2-3 months, i.e. build mocs/armies/reviews/etc. to develop the Troll theme.

Benefits: All themes/factions should eventually be covered and developed by the guilds. Teams are focused more on collaboration of and dependency on moc'ers/army builders/historians within the guild to show their strengths and provide their expertise at different times.

Concerns: Not everybody is going to have all the parts to contribute at certain cycles or not everyone will enjoy building along a certain theme/faction.

So I guess it's more a question of what is the purpose of this endeavor: Is it to increase activity, or flesh out the different themes/factions, or develop guilds that are focused more on collaboration and team dependency or teams that are more centered on individual's preferences and their strengths toward specific factions/themes? While pigeonholing members in certain theme based guilds will probably yield more involvement (basically because people build what they enjoy/are interested in) is it worth the fracturing and splitting of the historic community into smaller sub-groups and theme specific factions? On the other hand if guilds are forced to build in themes that not all their members will be able to contribute a gigantic amount to due to either a lack of interest or part selection, we will see certain undeveloped themes becoming more fleshed out as well as teams forming stronger bonds between the members but it may cost us the total amount of interest in the project in the first place.

For me, I like both ideas, I enjoy building in certain factions/themes exclusively no matter the subject matter, but at the same time I also enjoy having a challenge and reconciling the Lego and imagination/ideas I do have to contribute in a small way to a group's bigger focus. So for now my vote goes toward the second option. I may not always be able to contribute a gigantic display of an undead themed challenge, but the fun part in discovering what small ways I can still contribute toward my guild.

So as a final question, what builds community? A common interest, or a common goal?

Please bear in mind that I'm only addressing the most widely discussed topic and by no means consider other ideas or even combinations of the two ideas as out of the question or the realm of possibility.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Waterbrick Down

[Sandy]

In my opinion we should find some sort of focus on what to build. If we give free hands to everyone, then what's the point of having guilds in the first place. We at least need some sort of list of things to build and a map to place them on, just like in the first Castle Community Build that was held here some years back.

If we go with this concept of splitting the guilds according to the alignments (lawful men, rogues, fantasy races and evil races), may I suggest we make the guilds free-for-all? We'd have four guilds, but everyone would be able to contribute to each of them. That way we'd keep the structure of the guilds, but also prevent alienating builders who want to build on several alignments.

I'm not totally opposed to the idea of dividing people into guilds, but we'd risk losing many enthusiastic builders that way.

[Fred Daniel Yam]

Maybe once you've been sorted into guilds, you get to name it. The guilds could just be the tool to unite builders together.

[I Scream Clone]

Between Sandy and WBDown, not to mention my own thoughts on the matter of the guilds I feel its best served to start with 4 guild groups of no real affiliation who can work as a team to inspire a common goal for their group at each challenge level, be it through common brainstorming, critique, photography skills, reviews, guild alliances etc.

How does this sound?

Each guild will have to devise a character/avatar for each member of the guild, any race, creed, etc is up for grabs.

How then does you guild best interact in the castle world?

What will they devise as a means for food and water?

How will they protect their land?

What types of devices will they invent?

How will you barter with other guilds?

Design a crest for your guild,

Preferred habitat? etc

Would this spark enough interest in all the members? Will each member be able to easily include members of their guild in a MOC or review?

Do I need to put people of similar interests into the same guild for starters? Or can an Orc and human coexist with a dwarf?

At this stage we need to move forward a little otherwise we run the risk of too many conflicting voices. At this stage for simplicity sake lets say the guilds are simply North-East-South-West, and then allegiances can be fleshed out within a guild of 6 members etc.

[de Gothia]

This is starting to sound real fun and intresting!!

4 guilds sounds great and the name south, north, west and east sounds like a good start. Maybe that north has a colder climate (elves, dwarfs etc), south of course warmer with maybe some prince of persia/arabian inspired mocs? east is where the evil live (orcs skeletons etc) and west is the land of men...?

I would like to choose guild in the first round, just to get started with the building...

[Derfel Cadarn]

Between Sandy and WBDown, not to mention my own thoughts on the matter of the guilds I feel its best served to start with 4 guild groups of no real affiliation who can work as a team to inspire a common goal for their group at each challenge level, be it through common brainstorming, critique, photography skills, reviews, guild alliances etc.

How does this sound?

Each guild will have to devise a character/avatar for each member of the guild, any race, creed, etc is up for grabs.

How then does you guild best interact in the castle world?

What will they devise as a means for food and water?

How will they protect their land?

What types of devices will they invent?

How will you barter with other guilds?

Design a crest for your guild,

Preferred habitat? etc

Would this spark enough interest in all the members? Will each member be able to easily include members of their guild in a MOC or review?

Do I need to put people of similar interests into the same guild for starters? Or can an Orc and human coexist with a dwarf?

At this stage we need to move forward a little otherwise we run the risk of too many conflicting voices. At this stage for simplicity sake lets say the guilds are simply North-East-South-West, and then allegiances can be fleshed out within a guild of 6 members etc.

I agree, North, South, East and West sounds very neutral and works well.

What we have here is a perfect chance to help people get better at building different aspects of building.

For example, every guild should have their own land, and if the first thing each guild has to do is build watch towers, then every member in each guild should get to have a go at building a watch tower for their land. Then, if we need a blacksmith for our land, again, everyone can have a go at building one. We can do this for mill's, mines, churches, siege weapons, jousts, forests etc. This way everyone gets experience at building different aspects of the castle world. Plus is wouldn't matter if every member was building one of these thing, so what if there are 7 or more watch towers in each guild? Just means that the land will be a lot safer!!!

Obviously it could be changed so that once every member of a guild has built its watch tower, they can then dicuss and choose their favourite one that they want for their land.

Either way, the main thing is that everyone gets a chance to build in the challenges.

Well, I will leave it in your good hands Mr Clone. Lets get this show up and running.

[Augen]

This is starting to sound real fun and intresting!!

4 guilds sounds great and the name south, north, west and east sounds like a good start. Maybe that north has a colder climate (elves, dwarfs etc), south of course warmer with maybe some prince of persia/arabian inspired mocs? east is where the evil live (orcs skeletons etc) and west is the land of men...?

I would like to choose guild in the first round, just to get started with the building...

I also like the idea of North, South, East and West. With the PoP and Expedition sets, I have been toying with the idea of a more Arabian flavour (plus I've been reading Martin's Game of Thrones, which has this flavour).

I would suggest:

North: Dwarves, Orcs & Skeletons

South: Evil Humans like Bulls, Fright Knights & Green Dragons

East: Arabian

West: Good Humans like Lions & Crowns

[Fred Daniel Yam]

I am very excited as to where this is going! I wanna build something KK2!

[blueandwhite]

This is starting to sound really exciting!

I'm wondering if each guild might receive their own portion of a world map (North, East, West, South) to add their MOCs to and build their own nation? All types of historical buildings and fantasy structures would be fair game. I envision maps with a wild west town, an ancient city or two, a dark borderlands, a fantasy territory and so on. I would also suggest that each member could contribute one existing MOC to get a good start on their maps. By the end we would have four vigorous territories with dozens of new MOCs, stories, battles, and reviews.

[Sirens-of-Titan]

After carefully reading through the points here it does seem to make more sense to have guilds that are affiliated with multiple factions as opposed to guilds with just a few factions at a time.

So I propose that we scrap my previous idea and form 4 Original Guilds that represent regions of the Lego World Map that may be inhabited by humans, dwarfs, orcs and any other race we can think of. This has already been proposed; BUT, I propose the following in addition just to make the whole process more interesting and to give each guild something that makes it different.

1) Instead of calling them North, South etc, how about we invent 4 fictitious names for nations that could exist in this world? The names can sound something like medieval Kingdom names and each will have it's own unique symbol and characteristic history, but will not be restrictive of what factions can be used within it.

2) Instead of using the established Lego shields as coats of arms for specific Guilds, I propose a simple solution that will be appealing to everyone and will fit into everyone's budget: The use of flags. Yes, each guild will get a unique combo of 2 different colors that will represent it's identity as a tag or icon to be easily recognized and affiliated with the Guild. When contributing a MOC from that specific guild, a flag must be present somewhere on either buildings or in the arms of minifigs to showcase the affiliation of the MOC. Here are some examples from my own builds:

I feel this is quite easy and will solve the big question of how to distinguish different Guilds even though they may have the same factions within, ie dragon knights.

[Skalldyr]

The idea with the flags is very good. It offers endless combinations and is useful for everyone I think!

[dwarf-brik]

Very good idea, Sirens-of-Titam! Flags would really work better than shields, I think. Getting really excited for this project!