Rumor that PF Maybe Going Away

[Pet-Lego]

But other things on a layout want some attention as well. We apparently have 16 channels. That does is for me.

Using the other 8 channels for motorised switches/points and track side structures with maybe a new design controller (just 16 buttons or 8 switches) would be awesome.

[JopieK]

Hehe,

but we could also do some remote control of switch points as well. Sooo, with all that at hand I can see myself running four trains w/o autopilot (ok, ok, it is a challenge; control 8 switch points , and ... switch on and off the light of a couple of buildings.

Totally agreed: Even with 4 trains running on the same stretch of track: Good luck.

But other things on a layout want some attention as well. We apparently have 16 channels. That does is for me.

Best wishes,

Thorsten

I used Arduino with PF at LEGOWorld in Zwolle to also control points and signals... With the standard protocol you are soon out of options! But I had a solution. Since it is Infrared the line of sight is important and we can control several items on the same channel. I also made an extra remote to toggle sections. But anyway, if one would want to make a large layout one would run into problems fairly easy. On the other hand, I did some experiments with RF (radio frequency) and RF is very easy to use AND cheap.

[mrblue]

PF in remote controlled switches is an option, but not a good one, at least not for bigger layouts! my layout plan has a total of 24 switches and can run 6 train simultaneously plus a couple more on the yard. so even if PF gets an option to use 50 channels, it means also 50 IR and 50 battery pack! if you use them all with AAA you get to 300 batteries !!! think about replace them... and don't forget that sometimes, switches are out of range or not in the line of sight.

for the train control I agree it's a good system, suited for kids too, since it has no dangerous electric parts, but for other remote controlled options, like switches, level crossings, signals, that are mainly used in big layouts and operated (played) by afol, lego has to come out with a better solution, that obviously must be plugged to the power line with a target of 14+.

have a nice train lego day

mrBlue

edit: spelling check

Edited June 16, 2011 by mrblue

[aZz]

Well I no there sitting on an auto charging station which i hope they release sooner than later so there are some slight changes ahead I'm sure.And I believe it Lego trains will only get better.

[peterab]

Well I no there sitting on an auto charging station which i hope they release sooner than later so there are some slight changes ahead I'm sure.And I believe it Lego trains will only get better.

How do you know this?

[architrains]

I would hate to see PF go, not only because I JUST INVESTED in it at Christmas with the Cargo Train. The main reason is that I love it for the ability to have multiple trains running with DCC functionality, without the expense and complication of an actual DCC system. The constant failing of my HO scale trains is the need for complicated wiring to get more than one train on the track at once and let my friends be involved in "playing trains" too, instead of having them getting bored watching one train go round and round. PF provides a simple DCC-like system that is easy to get multiple people running trains with, and is more importantly for me, PORTABLE.

Which brings me to a major point about marketing trains in general:

There is always a gap in model railroading groups between the kids playing with trains and the settled-down middle-aged men and retirees building massive layouts that will be in their basements until they go to the nursing home. I am one of two twenty-somethings I know of that have continued being seriously interested in model trains through their college years. That gap is the same gap that correlates with most Lego "dark ages." The reason? Twenty-somethings move around a lot (A LOT and even more so in the current economy) and don't have a lot of free time to mess with complicated models or systems, and don't have room for large bins of trains or Legos. The promotion of the "apartment layout" and the shelf layout in model railroad planning literature over the past ten years has helped keep young adults in the hobby to a certain extent, but the gap is still evident, especially with kids increasingly preferring the virtual world when they reach their teens and never looking back.

TLC needs to realize that PF is one of those products that packs so much into a simple package it can keep young adults as loyal customers and increase their total sales. Since buying the Cargo Train, all my money that would have gone to beer and movies went to Legos instead (and I've probably been happier and healthier to boot). I can set up my PF trains in five minutes, and pack them in the same amount of time, and not worry about them getting broken in transit. And, I can always make them take up less space, if need be, by taking them down to bricks. Now I don't have to go without trains until I start sprouting gray hairs. Thank you Lego. Don't take that away.

[Pingles]

I am real excited about having a second full PF set ordered. Really looking forward to having two people with separate controls on the same track.

[locoworks]

The big question is what would they replace it with ?

Go backwards to 1980's technology, I know many of you have the older systems but toys like everything else move forward with technology.

Perhaps, newer drive wheels, or a better way of maintaining traction.....I don't know but I think this topic is going to be one of those can of worms being opened up.

Though I wish for PF gear, RC is not the best for trains.

i would suggest they replace it a system that doesn't use IR, what they have now with radio signals instead would be an upgrade.

[CarrollFilms]

I just got back from Brickworld 2011 (Lego Convention) and I didn't hear anything about PF being discontinued. I talked to the designer of the Maersk Train and Caf'e Corner plus the Grand Emporium. I never heard anything about PF's being discontinued, just in case, I'm going to buy some PF's I had 2 of my 9V motors die at BW 2011.

[MurkyMajare]

Whatever they change it to, I hope they add a way for us to remotely control track switches, crossings and stop signals.

Add to that a simple program you can use to control several trains stoping at stations, waiting for a crossing train before moving on and so on.

[CarrollFilms]

Whatever they change it to, I hope they add a way for us to remotely control track switches, crossings and stop signals.

Add to that a simple program you can use to control several trains stoping at stations, waiting for a crossing train before moving on and so on.

you are aware you can do that with PF's themselves

[hoeij]

I just got back from Brickworld 2011 (Lego Convention) and I didn't hear anything about PF being discontinued. I talked to the designer of the Maersk Train and Caf'e Corner plus the Grand Emporium. I never heard anything about PF's being discontinued, just in case, I'm going to buy some PF's I had 2 of my 9V motors die at BW 2011.

I too think that it is very unlikely that lego will discontinue PF. It's used not just in trains but also in lego technic. Lots of things are designed for it. I think it is almost certain that lego will continue to sell PF for years to come. After all, they've invested into it, it is selling well, so why not continue to make $ on it?

These items are so popular that they are sometimes in short supply, and temporarily unavailable, and that probably lead to rumors. But rumors, that's all that they are.

[mrblue]

you are aware you can do that with PF's themselves

... you can do that with PF, but only 8x trains and/or switches.

my layout can run 7 trains so I have 1 channel free to use in one of my 24 switches.

PF for switches or level crossings is an option, not that good also, but for sure is not THE solution.

have a nice train lego day

mrBlue

edit: spelling check

Edited June 20, 2011 by mrblue

[22kane]

As an N Scale modeler that enjoys Lego trains as well I have found some very good responses here. Way back when, the Lego 9V days, Lego stayed with a very basic concept that worked very well and still does to this very day. Many Lego train modelers have stayed with that system and I see parts on ebay go for a considerable amount of money. I believe the Power Function system has it's advantages but it may very well be a fad. Anytime a new system is introduced it needs to not only incorporate the original system but improve on it in many ways. The PF system has made some of the older parts obsolete making collectors change their set-ups which many will not do. If Lego really wanted to have a huge success with the system they should have simplified it in so many ways. The problem is that you have to purchase so many different components separately and they are not cheap. Many parents will find that buying a full kit such as the Cargo train set would be sufficient enough however when purchasing the Emerald Night you still have another $100 of spending to make the model operational.

Although it is true that Lego is not a train company it is an important part of their collection. Changing the models drastically to incorporate the new system imposes an issue later down the road. What happens when they decide to go with an entirely different system? Will that make the current and future models obsolete 10 years from now? I have already heard many complaints on the "Flex-Track" system as it is not stable and moves around with the force of the running trains. Although using "un-powered" track may have been a great idea is the new system affordable enough for most Lego enthusiasts?

Most model trains still function in the same way they did 50 years ago except with the growing popularity of DCC. This enables each cab to respond to cab specific commands on the same powered track. Could Lego have used this technology? Absolutely and they may very well in the near future as its popularity and functionality grows. For now, the PF system will have to do and although I do not have a great amount of faith in it I will have to purchase it in order to make my current models run.

I just hope they make the next system much more compatible with their current system.

[AndyC]

I think it's incredibly unlikely that PF is going away, it just doesn't make sense given that it's an entirely modular system. If TLG wanted to replace IR with something else, like RF or Bluetooth it could just as easily do so without having to abandon PF - just substitute the remote and receiver and off you go. Even the power supply could be changed to go back to 9V from the rails without abandoning PF, though I doubt that will happen for all the safety reasons others have pointed out.

I think it's more likely this is a misunderstanding on the part of the retailer. Most likely, in my opinion, is that the flex track has proven unpopular and is being redesigned (which has been rumoured) and that is what is being changed. It may even explain why the cargo train is lined up for replacement so soon, if the new set is going to bring in a better flex track.

[aZz]

How do you know this?

Was told at brickvention by a Lego employee and actually he told the whole room that was there about it but i just hope they release it asap.

[gotoAndLego]

...once again, it takes AFOLs to show up LEGO on how to combine PF and electric rail to get the usability of PF with the convenience of electric rail.

I really don't think that's true. There had to be many designers at Lego who wanted to keep powered tracks, but I doubt Lego wanted the complexity of supporting both systems so they went with the newer. In the future, I do think they will keep PF, or something like it, but also add powered tracks.

Edited June 21, 2011 by gotoAndLego

[peterab]

Was told at brickvention by a Lego employee and actually he told the whole room that was there about it but i just hope they release it asap.

Was that Jim Foulds? I'm on the Brickvention organizing committee, and had a few talks with him about the future of trains. He was always really careful not to talk about unreleased sets. I can't remember anything about a charging station, though I was pretty busy most of the time and might have missed it. He did say we would love what was in the works though, and since we've seen the new red cargo train and the Maersk train, so I think he's right so far.

I really don't think that's true. There had to be many designers at Lego who wanted to keep powered tracks, but I doubt Lego wanted the complexity of supporting both systems so they went with the newer. In the future, I do think they will keep PF, or something like it, but also add powered tracks.

Since the powered tracks were killed off due to cost and safety concerns, I'd doubt they'll come back unless something drastic changes. Even if sales of trains skyrocket there is still the safety rule issues which are out of TLG control.

[aZz]

Was that Jim Foulds? I'm on the Brickvention organizing committee, and had a few talks with him about the future of trains. He was always really careful not to talk about unreleased sets. I can't remember anything about a charging station, though I was pretty busy most of the time and might have missed it. He did say we would love what was in the works though, and since we've seen the new red cargo train and the Maersk train, so I think he's right so far.

Since the powered tracks were killed off due to cost and safety concerns, I'd doubt they'll come back unless something drastic changes. Even if sales of trains skyrocket there is still the safety rule issues which are out of TLG control.

Yeh thats right it was Jim he said that he had seen it in the flesh and it was well into the development stage.

[______]

I emailed LEGO yesterday about the availability of the AAA battery box and also about these rumours.

Regarding the rumours they said,

"The LEGO Power Functions elements were only introduced a short while ago and we have also used them for our new train sets so at the moment I don't know about the rumours that these items are going to be replaced. Our fans tell us that they are really happy about them as they are so versatile and I can't imagine them being replaced."

Looks like they are selling quite well, why get rid of them?

[Brickaroo]

I emailed LEGO yesterday about the availability of the AAA battery box and also about these rumours.

Regarding the rumours they said,

"The LEGO Power Functions elements were only introduced a short while ago and we have also used them for our new train sets so at the moment I don't know about the rumours that these items are going to be replaced. Our fans tell us that they are really happy about them as they are so versatile and I can't imagine them being replaced."

Looks like they are selling quite well, why get rid of them?

That's not exactly the firm statement you'd be expecting from Lego regarding that. Had that person said "absolutely not" then it would be a different story.

This rumour might have some legs...

[JopieK]

Yeh thats right it was Jim he said that he had seen it in the flesh and it was well into the development stage.

So that more or less proves that they will keep PF for some while but also include special AFOL only articles to even sell more to us :)

[______]

That's not exactly the firm statement you'd be expecting from Lego regarding that. Had that person said "absolutely not" then it would be a different story.

This rumour might have some legs...

However LEGO does say that the fans think they are versatile and indeed enjoy them. It would seem odd to replace something which is selling so well.

[CarrollFilms]

I too think that it is very unlikely that lego will discontinue PF. It's used not just in trains but also in lego technic. Lots of things are designed for it. I think it is almost certain that lego will continue to sell PF for years to come. After all, they've invested into it, it is selling well, so why not continue to make $ on it?

These items are so popular that they are sometimes in short supply, and temporarily unavailable, and that probably lead to rumors. But rumors, that's all that they are.

I completely agree with this, the only thing that people should buy more of for there trains are the RC parts. It might just be me, but I think that the RC train motor is more powerful and has more torque, which helps the train carry more. The only bad thing is the power consumption, thankfully there are rechargeable batteries. Back to PF, I bet that within a decade PF will either be continued or improved with a new name.

[Cohen]

I think it's incredibly unlikely that PF is going away, it just doesn't make sense given that it's an entirely modular system. If TLG wanted to replace IR with something else, like RF or Bluetooth it could just as easily do so without having to abandon PF - just substitute the remote and receiver and off you go. Even the power supply could be changed to go back to 9V from the rails without abandoning PF, though I doubt that will happen for all the safety reasons others have pointed out.

I think it's more likely this is a misunderstanding on the part of the retailer. Most likely, in my opinion, is that the flex track has proven unpopular and is being redesigned (which has been rumoured) and that is what is being changed. It may even explain why the cargo train is lined up for replacement so soon, if the new set is going to bring in a better flex track.

Absolutely agree with that