Quick poll about instructions

[mahjqa]

Just so we're on the same page, I'm talking about this one:

I've considered making instructions for it. However, it would be a very time-intensive project. We're talking about 400 pages of instructions, and at least a full month of work.

Since I already know how to build one, I don't need instructions and I'd rather use my time for other things. However, some of you might want them.

The instructions would not be like Lego's instructions. They'd look like this, perhaps a bit more polished. They'd be delivered as a zip file with JPGs, or a gigantic PDF. If you want it printed, you'll have to do so yourself.

There is of course the problem of piracy. Undoubtedly, some jackass will eventually try to sell this on ebay or wherever. As a countermeasure, I will release these instructions for free eventually. I'm thinking about a timeframe of 6-12 months.

'So why pay for it, then?' Well, because you'll have a head start. And if nobody does, this thing will not get made. Don't like these prospects? Then please don't give me your money. However, if you're capable of getting $350 worth of parts to build this thing, I'm sure you can spare some bucks for little ol' me.

[dolittle]

Hi,

I paid before 5-10 euros (depending on the instruction and model type), I have done this before as a donation/booster to the guy making the instructions rather then seeing it as a "purchase".

(I would also "expect" a part list that can I import into basebrick, or any other site to confirm and find out which parts I lack)

Just so we're on the same page, I'm talking about this one:

I've considered making instructions for it. However, it would be a very time-intensive project. We're talking about 400 pages of instructions, and at least a full month of work.

Since I already know how to build one, I don't need instructions and I'd rather use my time for other things. However, some of you might want them.

The instructions would not be like Lego's instructions. They'd look like this, perhaps a bit more polished. They'd be delivered as a zip file with JPGs, or a gigantic PDF. If you want it printed, you'll have to do so yourself.

There is of course the problem of piracy. Undoubtedly, some jackass will eventually try to sell this on ebay or wherever. As a countermeasure, I will release these instructions for free eventually. I'm thinking about a timeframe of 6-12 months.

'So why pay for it, then?' Well, because you'll have a head start. And if nobody does, this thing will not get made. Don't like these prospects? Then please don't give me your money. However, if you're capable of getting $350 worth of parts to build this thing, I'm sure you can spare some bucks for little ol' me.

Edited April 4, 2011 by dolittle

[Blakbird]

I've considered making instructions for it. However, it would be a very time-intensive project. We're talking about 400 pages of instructions, and at least a full month of work.

'So why pay for it, then?' Well, because you'll have a head start. And if nobody does, this thing will not get made. Don't like these prospects? Then please don't give me your money. However, if you're capable of getting $350 worth of parts to build this thing, I'm sure you can spare some bucks for little ol' me.

Yes. Not only would I happily buy the instructions, I'd also likely end up making a CAD file for the model like I did with the Metal Grudge. This allows me to make a proper parts list and also to visualize the entire model and mechanisms before I build it. This is a special model because of its highly unusual subject matter and functionality.

[vmln8r]

Of all your wonderful models, this and the Igniz are probably equal favourite.

If I decided to recreate this (and I have seriously considered it), I probably wouldn't need instructions to do so. However, since I'd basically be copying your work, if instructions were available, I'd purchase them out of goodwill.

I'm assuming your intentions in making instructions are artistic rather than commercial, ie "bringing Technic to the people". In which case I think the biggest obstacle to purchasing instructions would be uncertainty about acquiring the necessary parts. To address this, here are some random ideas (with varying price and difficulty):

- charge $500 and sell as a complete kit

- sell the electronic bits, such as the XL motors, which to the typical Lego fan were last seen two years ago

- provide the bricklink parts list

- provide part codes for Lego direct (with which the US/European Lego fan can pretty easily order the parts)

- advise on some sets which will provide the bulk of parts

[DLuders]

Yes, I would be willing to pay US $25-$30 for PDF Building Instructions and a Parts List. Your Bridge Launcher is an excellent example of Lego Technic engineering. You could password-protect the individual PDF files you sell, so that it can only be unlocked by the purchaser's name. I bought Crowkillers' Lamborghini Gallardo PDF Building Instructions for $25 (before he later offered it for free), and had no regrets. His filename was password-protected with a variation of my name. If I ever attempt to sell it, copy it, etc., then EVERYBODY would know who violated his copyright.

[AndyC]

His filename was password-protected with a variation of my name. If I ever attempt to sell it, copy it, etc., then EVERYBODY would know who violated his copyright.

It's very easy to remove a password from a PDF file. It's a reasonable deterrent but by no means a cast-iron guaranteed way that someone won't share it. To some extent if you're going into a business like that you just need to rely on trust, but accept that some degree of piracy is inevitable. Effort is better spent keeping a careful eye on ebay auctions selling on copies than on trying to devise some sort of technical protection.

[Blakbird]

It's very easy to remove a password from a PDF file. It's a reasonable deterrent but by no means a cast-iron guaranteed way that someone won't share it. To some extent if you're going into a business like that you just need to rely on trust, but accept that some degree of piracy is inevitable. Effort is better spent keeping a careful eye on ebay auctions selling on copies than on trying to devise some sort of technical protection.

Very easy? That's not what Adobe would have you believe. There is no such thing as a cast-iron guarantee against piracy. A determined pirate can always defeat copy protection, no matter how much effort was put into it in the first place. That's why it makes no sense to me why companies spend so many millions on trying to do it. On the other hand, a little bit of protection is better than none. At least then the pirate has to consciously make the decision to do what the copyright owner obviously does not want them to. I think most AFOLs are honest and so this is enough for most of them.

As far as eBay goes, I've seen people selling my instructions lots of times. eBay doesn't really care. I've never been able to stop one of the auctions, so it is not worth the effort.

[Thyrane]

I would pay up 10-20 bucks for it yeah.

[MarcoB]

I often buy instructions for bigger techinc sets (rather than buying the set itself), so definitely I would pay 5-15 euros for instructions for great MOCs too!

I really dislike pdf instructions, but those image based instructions are great.

And how to figure out which MOCs are more interested AFOLs?

My site (basebrick) might help. There are few MOC part lists uploaded there, and MOC owners can see the page view count. For example Jurgen's 8043 mod. has the highest view count

Well, just an idea.

[RockeTeK]

I would pay max $5 for it; a balance between "paying for a digital file only" and "supporting the creator and giving credit for the effort he/she has put in the model"

[Plastic Nurak]

Ask Nico. Edited April 5, 2011 by Plastic Nurak

[Erik Leppen]

I think the question is not Do we want to pay, but Do you want to earn? You can make it as time-consuming as you like, but ask yourself why would you be doing it? Do you find fun in creating instructions? If so, please do. If not, then ask yourself: do I want to earn money on what is essentially a hobby? If not then don't, and don't create instructions. And if so, go ahead. But as a community that's all about sharing knowledge I'm personally against asking money for such favors. But that's just me probably. I personally think you can do the world a much greater favor by just taking the thing apart, taking ten good pictures of its insides, upload them to brickshelf and be done with it. That'll hardly costs time. Don't spend time on something you're not actually enjoying (that's what I would say). The model will get copied anyway. If you post any kind of building information, this can't be stopped. It's your decision if you want that or not. Remember that the AFOL world already knows it's originally your model, so they can't be fooled. And other people don't half understand how complicated these kinds of things can be

But to answer your question, no I would not pay for instructions. Partly because it's a hassle. Also I would not pay money as a kind of "giving credit for the effort he/she has put in the model". I mean, you enjoyed putting together this model, right? It's a hobby, not a job. That would mean the positive feedback you've been flooded with is the greatest kind of credit you can wish for. [sorry for very suggestive wordings]. I personally think money should be involved in this entire AFOL thing as little as possible (for intellectual property. It's different of course for the bricks, and for example for web hosting that has to be paid).

[MarcoB]

I personally think you can do the world a much greater favor by just taking the thing apart, taking ten good pictures of its insides, upload them to brickshelf and be done with it.

I must agree with this. I recreated the red Stilzkin Igniz using only these images. It took some time but I had lot of fun figuring out how it has been made

But still I would like to have the part lists

I personally think money should be involved in this entire AFOL thing as little as possible (for intellectual property. It's different of course for the bricks, and for example for web hosting that has to be paid).

I agree with this also, 100%.

Edited April 5, 2011 by MarcoB

[RockeTeK]

(...) Also I would not pay money as a kind of "giving credit for the effort he/she has put in the model". I mean, you enjoyed putting together this model, right? It's a hobby, not a job. That would mean the positive feedback you've been flooded with is the greatest kind of credit you can wish for.(..)

What I meant with this comment, was to support the creation of the instructions itself (because it costs so much time).

Support and credit for the model will provided by both the use of the instructions by others and the comments on the model.

So I actually agree with Erik here!

[BrickDemon]

If I wanted to build it I would pay €25 for good instructions and a parts list (doesn't have to be digital, I can make a partlist in brickstore in about an hour.. I consider it part of a build)

I would do it like brickgun does.. make a cool pro looking website for it. makes it more interesting to buy as well. Although I found most of the brickgun instructions for free and made all parts lists in brickstore, I ended up buying the CD as an appriciation for all the work.

There will always be buyers and freeloaders.. Just focus on the buyers.

[mahjqa]

Erik Leppen; I understand your concerns.

I personally think you can do the world a much greater favor by just taking the thing apart, taking ten good pictures of its insides, upload them to brickshelf and be done with it.

That's what I do. For almost every creation on this page there are multiple pictures of the functionality, internals and techniques. Every time I use a strange part it's annotated with a link to bricklink. That is not going away.

And for some people, those pictures are enough. To you, me and most hardcore AFOLs it's second nature to figure these constructions out. However, most people either don't have the time or the insight to build like that.

And in the end it's simple: I'm sacrificing a big chunk of time I'd rather spend doing other things. I'm hoping for some kind of compensation. That is all.

[DLuders]

@ Mahjqa: By selling your DETAILED Building Instructions, you will open up the enjoyment of Lego Technic to (possibly) 5 times as many people. The really talented AFOLs (who can reverse-engineer a creation, just by looking at a few pictures) are few and far between. It takes years of experience to be able to do that, and many Technic wanna-be's just want to build something COOL like your Bridge Launcher.

One intangible thing about offering CUSTOM Technic Building Instructions is that you will get WORLDWIDE exposure and "glory" (possibly much more than you get on Flickr and Eurobricks). If you place an ad for your instructions on eBay, you will get HUNDREDs of hits and can easily sell dozens of them worldwide. Not everybody knows about Eurobricks, but there are LOTS of folks hunting for "Lego Technic" stuff on eBay.

[nico71]

@mahjqa : as Plastic Nurak have told you, if you are interested in automated system to sell your instructions, don't hesitate to contact me :)

[Enilder]

CAD model (to create parts' list for BL uploader) and instructions = yes

either of those 2 = no

Edited April 8, 2011 by Enilder

[P4trickvH]

I would love to have those instructions and partlist to, and mabye even willing to pay for them like 5-10euro's if they are good enough to build the model without to much trouble.

I love some of your models. Allready started with building the Metal Grudge.