[KEY TOPIC] LDD 4 Bugs and brick errors

[Alasdair Ryan]

I have done that know,thank all who pointed out my error.

But is it not interesting that LDD allowed me to place the connectors misaligned like that in the first place?

[Zerobricks]

I have done that know,thank all who pointed out my error.

But is it not interesting that LDD allowed me to place the connectors misaligned like that in the first place?

It allows for that, its nothing new...I usually use this bug to connect stuff that works in real life, but not quite in LDD.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Zblj

[weavil]

Had that problem before and sometimes still do. But with mine it's so small of an error that I dont see it half of the time, till 3/4 of the way when "why dosen't this pin FIT ". Then I have to rebuild from the start next to the first till I find the error and at that point I fix it, save it, and hope I never need to look at ever again.

[BeeGeeDee]

Just curious but does anyone have issues with the palette in the latest version? For me the colours are cropped at the top so you can't filter by certain colours.

I've got a dual display setup and one is widescreen. It seems to me the legacy palette has grown somewhat so it's hard to say what is missing.

[Takanuinuva]

I found a weird bug involving the motorcycle chassis http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=50859b and both versions of the space gun http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=3959 http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=86208. The space gun can attach to one of the axle sides but refuses to do so on the other. Here are pics of what I mean

Here it is attached

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/takanuinuva/mc/motorcycle_bug_1.png

And here it won't attach. It can't be a collision error as the two pieces aren't crossing over each other.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/takanuinuva/mc/motorcycle_bug_2.png

It only has this error when attached facing that direction. It attaches to that side fine when rotated in other directions.

[Superkalle]

Just curious but does anyone have issues with the palette in the latest version? For me the colours are cropped at the top so you can't filter by certain colours.

I've got a dual display setup and one is widescreen. It seems to me the legacy palette has grown somewhat so it's hard to say what is missing.

Yes, there is an error with the palette. It's too big to fit all screen resolutions.

[mzoli]

I found a weird bug involving the motorcycle chassis http://www.bricklink...em.asp?P=50859b and both versions of the space gun http://www.bricklink...Item.asp?P=3959 http://www.bricklink...em.asp?P=86208. The space gun can attach to one of the axle sides but refuses to do so on the other. Here are pics of what I mean

Here it is attached

http://www.brickshel...cycle_bug_1.png

And here it won't attach. It can't be a collision error as the two pieces aren't crossing over each other.

http://www.brickshel...cycle_bug_2.png

It only has this error when attached facing that direction. It attaches to that side fine when rotated in other directions.

Hello Takanuinuva,

I've checked the parts you had mentioned. It looks very strange indeed, both space guns don't fit by default, however the megaphone (4349) looks OK.

But if you place the space gun next to the motorcycle and move the motorcycle on an axle there will be a connection.

LXF file

[Lyichir]

Yeah, it seems to me that part 15395 turns out to need connectivity with all sorts of parts. The top rim ought to be able to connect to just about any 2x2 part, even square ones. But it seems like connectivity is only programmed for a few round parts. And it's not just a situation where you can float it into place—if connectivity isn't programmed, the rim will interfere with connections between parts.

I'm going to try to make a list of parts which ought to be able to connect to the top of 15395. Most of these issues also affect part 2489, which has a similar rim:

2397 (the 2x2 section)

2399 (the front 2x2 square)

2422

2460

2622 (the front 2x2 square)

2680 (the center 2x2 square)

2904

2972 (the twelve 2x2 squares)

3003

3022

3039

3043

3045

3046

3068

3176

3300

3678

3685

3688

3729

3730

3787

3788

3956 (both the vertical and horizontal sections)

3961

4151 (the center 2x2 square)

4285

4598 (the vertical section)

4729

4858 (the front 2x2 square)

6032

6153 (the front 2x2 square)

6216 (the center 2x2 square)

6219 (the four 2x2 squares)

6232

15456

15647

17114

30000

30033

30094

30145

30151

30165

30389

30390

30499

30592 (the center 2x2 square)

40902

41751 (the front 2x2 square)

43713

43719

44375

45705 (the front 2x2 square)

47407 (the front 2x2 square)

48183

48933 (the front 2x2 square)

50990

51739

57908

57909

62712

63082

75341

75937 (this connection is used in the upcoming Exo-Suit, which is what led me to realize the extent of the issue)

87580

90194

92013

92582

93348 (the front 2x2 square)

93606 (the front 2x2 square)

94148

94531 (the front 2x2 square)

98284

99206

This is far from a a complete list. I only have time now to check categories up through modified plates (the plate with clip category) and even then I may have missed some. As you can see, this is a wide-ranging issue. I hope for this sort of connectivity to be added in future updates.

[Superkalle]

Yeah, it seems to me that part 15395 turns out to need connectivity with all sorts of parts. The top rim ought to be able to connect to just about any 2x2 part, even square ones. But it seems like connectivity is only programmed for a few round parts. And it's not just a situation where you can float it into place—if connectivity isn't programmed, the rim will interfere with connections between parts.

Yes, connectivity is only on case-by-case since it turned out many bricks will not fit in real life.

30151 is too lose

2x2 plate is too tight

2x2 brick is too lose

etc

The 15395 is actually a very odd (and poor standardized) brick since the connectivity is case by base, and that goes against one of the core fundamental principles of the LEGO system - that what looks like it should fit (for a child), should fit.

Having said that, if there are some connections that should fit but don't in LDD, report them here (as always), but make sure to test them with physcial bricks first.

And I agree that 75937, and most likely it's old counterpart 30333, should fit.

I also tested 30094 just now, and that fits fine, so that get's reported too.

[Lyichir]

Yes, connectivity is only on case-by-case since it turned out many bricks will not fit in real life.

30151 is too lose

2x2 plate is too tight

2x2 brick is too lose

etc

The 15395 is actually a very odd (and poor standardized) brick since the connectivity is case by base, and that goes against one of the core fundamental principles of the LEGO system - that what looks like it should fit (for a child), should fit.

Having said that, if there are some connections that should fit but don't in LDD, report them here (as always), but make sure to test them with physcial bricks first.

And I agree that 75937, and most likely it's old counterpart 30333, should fit.

I also tested 30094 just now, and that fits fine, so that get's reported too.

The real problem is not that they don't connect, but that they literally collide if you try to place them as if they were connected. This is a huge problem, since all it takes are two 1x1 round plates to position even most parts which would normally be too loose as if they were "connected". If there's not a collision in real life, there shouldn't be one in LDD.

And for the record, I tried with both the 2x2 plate and 2x2 brick and BOTH worked without any substantial stress on the parts. I didn't test all of these physically (that would take days, given the current state of my collection) but I would certainly expect the majority of them to work without issues.

[Superkalle]

The real problem is not that they don't connect, but that they literally collide if you try to place them as if they were connected. This is a huge problem, since all it takes are two 1x1 round plates to position even most parts which would normally be too loose as if they were "connected". If there's not a collision in real life, there shouldn't be one in LDD.

OK, I think I'm starting to understand you now. But in the Reid Exo-suit, I thought you meant, that the 15395 were lacking stud connectivity to 75937, and that that was the bug. It was when you went on and listed all the other bricks, that I said that not all of them should have stud connections.

I'm aware about the problem with the 1x1 round plate and how it allows a lot of scaffolding possibilities, but fixing all possible bricks in all possible connections so that they don't intersect is going to be a humongous task, so I'm reporting only those that are specifically messing up the re-creation of an official set, or could be deemed very common

And for the record, I tried with both the 2x2 plate and 2x2 brick and BOTH worked without any substantial stress on the parts. I didn't test all of these physically (that would take days, given the current state of my collection) but I would certainly expect the majority of them to work without issues.

Maybe we are talking past each other. As an example, there is no connection between a 2x2 brick and a 15395 (no clutch power), so therefore it will not connect in LDD (or in real life). And with a 2x2 plate the connection is too strong (not legal), at least with newer ones (all the ones I've tried) due to the mold ejection holder marks along the inner sides, and therefore it is not supported in LDD, and not in real life either.

As examples, the Red bricks shall not fit, the green ones should. Is that the way you view it too?

[Lyichir]

OK, I think I'm starting to understand you now. But in the Reid Exo-suit, I thought you meant, that the 15395 were lacking stud connectivity to 75937, and that that was the bug. It was when you went on and listed all the other bricks, that I said that not all of them should have stud connections.

I'm aware about the problem with the 1x1 round plate and how it allows a lot of scaffolding possibilities, but fixing all possible bricks in all possible connections so that they don't intersect is going to be a humongous task, so I'm reporting only those that are specifically messing up the re-creation of an official set, or could be deemed very common

Maybe we are talking past each other. As an example, there is no connection between a 2x2 brick and a 15395 (no clutch power), so therefore it will not connect in LDD (or in real life). And with a 2x2 plate the connection is too strong (not legal), at least with newer ones (all the ones I've tried) due to the mold ejection holder marks along the inner sides, and therefore it is not supported in LDD, and not in real life either.

As examples, the Red bricks shall not fit, the green ones should. Is that the way you view it too?

It's possible that the plate and brick I attached the piece to were older varieties. While I'm a stickler for that sort of thing on LDD I'm afraid sorting out my physical collection is a daunting enough challenge without distinguishing newer versions of what is more or less the same mold.

With parts that would be too tight a connection, the lack of connectivity is understandable (even if it's not always obvious from the renders of these parts on LDD). But parts where there isn't enough clutch power should still be able to be positioned as if connected, since all it takes to connect most of those parts (specifically, those 2x2 parts with a center tube) is to place two 1x1 round plates on the inside of 15395 to "connect" the parts via the center tube of the part on top. Indeed, from my experience this technique is used to strengthen the connection of 15395 with even most of the parts on the left of your image (an example being the "lights" on the underside of the roof of the Simpsons House).

The fact that this sort of connection needs to be programmed in individually, meanwhile, is probably the main reason Duplo parts are not yet available on LDD (since the connections in both of these situations are based on the inside geometries of bricks, which are not themselves programmed as boundaries). I can only hope that if LDD 5 is ever released it might make these sorts of connections simpler.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Lyichir

[Superkalle]

With parts that would be too tight a connection, the lack of connectivity is understandable (even if it's not always obvious from the renders of these parts on LDD). But parts where there isn't enough clutch power should still be able to be positioned as if connected, since all it takes to connect most of those parts (specifically, those 2x2 parts with a center tube) is to place two 1x1 round plates on the inside of 15395 to "connect" the parts via the center tube of the part on top. Indeed, from my experience this technique is used to strengthen the connection of 15395 with even most of the parts on the left of your image (an example being the "lights" on the underside of the roof of the Simpsons House).

OK, finally I see what you mean by when you mention the Simpson house example.

That was an interesting example BTW, because the 1x1 round plate "light bulbs" inside will not be visible from the outside. I wonder, was it added only to give a cool experience during building (i.e. the builder will know there are are bulbs inside the lamp shade)? Because it doesn't seem reasonable that the two 1x1 round studs are added for strengthening the connection since there are no forces on the lamp shade (other then gravity).

As for the all the other examples in your list - now they are beginning to make more sense. Hm, not sure what to think now. We'll have to see how common building techniques this turns out to be. Are there any other example then the Simpson house?

And like I said, all of the candidates in your list have to tested to at least see they are not a too tight fit. Or that won't fit at all due to physcial obstructions in the physcial brick - like in 4285.

The fact that this sort of connection needs to be programmed in individually, meanwhile, is probably the main reason Duplo parts are not yet available on LDD (since the connections in both of these situations are based on the inside geometries of bricks, which are not themselves programmed as boundaries). I can only hope that if LDD 5 is ever released it might make these sorts of connections simpler.

I think that for the DUPLO case, it was just deemed that LDD was not suited for such small kids, so there was no need to add DUPLO bricks. But that's just my guess - I don't know for sure.

[Zerobricks]

One small bug I noticed, if you delete too many things in a fast order, LDD simply crashes.

[Lyichir]

OK, finally I see what you mean by when you mention the Simpson house example.

That was an interesting example BTW, because the 1x1 round plate "light bulbs" inside will not be visible from the outside. I wonder, was it added only to give a cool experience during building (i.e. the builder will know there are are bulbs inside the lamp shade)? Because it doesn't seem reasonable that the two 1x1 round studs are added for strengthening the connection since there are no forces on the lamp shade (other then gravity).

As for the all the other examples in your list - now they are beginning to make more sense. Hm, not sure what to think now. We'll have to see how common building techniques this turns out to be. Are there any other example then the Simpson house?

And like I said, all of the candidates in your list have to tested to at least see they are not a too tight fit. Or that won't fit at all due to physcial obstructions in the physcial brick - like in 4285.

I think the use of the plates in the Simpsons House set are because the bowls would otherwise be "hanging" from the roof segments, being attached to the underside of the segment rather than on top, the way Lego models are commonly built. The plates likely provide a bit of extra stability.

I think that for the DUPLO case, it was just deemed that LDD was not suited for such small kids, so there was no need to add DUPLO bricks. But that's just my guess - I don't know for sure.

Either way I hope that at the very least basic Duplo bricks are someday added to the software. Not only would it be nice for, say, if you want to design a model with one of the old promotional printed 1x2x2 Duplo bricks in it (one of the few types of Duplo that has commonly been marketed toward fans of all ages), but larger AFOL models (especially things like mountainous landscapes with large raised sections) often use Duplo bricks for a light, cheap substructure. Specialized Duplo parts would just be the icing on the cake, for when you REALLY want an NPU.

[The Undo]

One small bug I noticed, if you delete too many things in a fast order, LDD simply crashes.

This depends on your computer specifications and brick count in the model. But if there's one thing i've learned working in LDD it's having patience with it, especially when dealing with larger mocs.

[Superkalle]

Turning off edge outlines greatly helps speed in larger models too

[pbat]

92907 should look like this:

However, in LDD (brickversion 1392) it looks, well, ... - different:

The middle reinforcement ridge is missing (red circle) and the outer ridges are somewhat lower and less smooth (yellow circles) and not as rounded as they should be (orange circle).

Call me a nitpicker, but I guess this part needs some overhaul.

[Zerobricks]

92907 should look like this:

However, in LDD (brickversion 1392) it looks, well, ... - different:

The middle reinforcement ridge is missing (red circle) and the outer ridges are somewhat lower and less smooth (yellow circles) and not as rounded as they should be (orange circle).

Call me a nitpicker, but I guess this part needs some overhaul.

Probably an early version?

[JGW3000]

Kind of a subtle issue. I frequently use and modify custom part lists, so in LDD 'normal' mode I can build from the parts I have. Often, I modify the parts list and copy the modified file into the proper directory, on my PC its "...\AppData\Roaming\LEGO Company\LEGO Digital Designer\UserPalettes", which works great most of the time.

But occasionally, after modifying a file and replacing an old version with a new version, either with the same file name or a new file name, and then loading LDD, the old versions and/or old file names are still in the "filter bricks by boxes" icon list, as if LDD maintains a cache of older files, that does not get cleared when restarting. Need to be able to manually or automatically refresh this cache. On a related note, would like to be able to control what files get displayed in this area, rather than have to look at "Hero Factory" as the top most item.

[pbat]

Probably an early version?

I don't think so. Neither bricklink.com nor brickset.com list any variants of this part. I guess this brick is just poorly modeled for LDD and was made in a quick-and-dirty fashion. It was not the first brick to be of low quality in LDD: Do you remember the 1x1 cheese slope 50576? Initially it used to have sharp corners in LDD until a bug report was filed and the slope was fixed in the 2013 december update: Now it has smooth round top corners.

I guess the case is similar here with 92907: Currently LDD contains a low quality version of this part lacking the small details. It kinda works as intended in LDD, but its visual appearance is obviously distinct from the "real" brick.

[Lego Otaku]

A bug or something? Once in a while, it won't let me place anything on *top* and instead, tries to place bricks on the bottom (out of sight) side. Can we please do something so LDD is forced to only find valid visible connection??? The bottom would not be visible and should not be valid.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Lego Otaku

[Zerobricks]

Just change the view a bit...This happens sometimes...Or select the plates and hide them, than they will be ignored.

[Superkalle]

A bug or something? Once in a while, it won't let me place anything on *top* and instead, tries to place bricks on the bottom (out of sight) side. Can we please do something so LDD is forced to only find valid visible connection??? The bottom would not be visible and should not be valid.

I get that from time to time also. I think the algorithm that chooses possible candidates for connection need to be adjusted.

I just tried your example and found that if you only have one of the 1x12 beams, then it behaves like it should. Hm,....strange.

[Lego Otaku]

Just change the view a bit...This happens sometimes...Or select the plates and hide them, than they will be ignored.

I've changed the view multiple times before I started using Fraps to record the issue. Hiding plate may have worked, I didn't think to try it.

I get that from time to time also. I think the algorithm that chooses possible candidates for connection need to be adjusted.

I just tried your example and found that if you only have one of the 1x12 beams, then it behaves like it should. Hm,....strange.

Yes, it seems to be buggy when you're moving (or used copy n paste) multiple parts, they won't obey line of sight rule and try to stick to the bottom. It's almost as if LDD only considers the top (the last placed brick before copy) as important brick.