Lego pushing out to too many licenced sets?

[Superkalle]

I just glanced through the shelfs of Lego at my local dealer today. And even though I've seen them all a thousand times, one thing struck me: That's an awful lot of licensed and promotional oriented stuff right now. I mean we have:

1) Prince of Persia sets in the shelfs with the movie in the theaters.

2) Toy Story sets in the shelfs, the movies just coming out.

3) Ben Ten on the shelfs and on TV

Then of course there the ever-running Star Wars Clone wars sets and the series running on TV And on top of that, Harry Potter sets are coming in, the game has just been released, the movie is expected soon.

My local dealer said that PoP, Toy Story or Ben Ten aren't selling very well. Personally I'm looking forward to some major sales of these sets during the fall, but it makes me wonder - have Lego flooded the market with too many licenced sets? Or is the themes themselfs that the problem - are kids really interested in buying Toy Story figures in Lego or Prince of Persia buildings in Lego. Star Wars is a different thing because they are part of a bigger saga and includes many swooshable sets. And I guess that was the case with Indiana Jones too with lots of vehicles and airplanes.

[ttoole73]

I don't think they're pushing out too many liscensed sets. I think the problem with some of the current lineup is that it just doesn't have the mass appeal like Star Wars or Indiana Jones. I would wager that if you replaced PoP, Toy Story, or Ben 10 with a property that spans several decades, like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, that sales would probably shoot up. Having said that, I still think that TLG should always try out a new property, because you never really know when something is going to take off and appeal to a wider audience.

[prateek]

I think Cars and Ben 10 are too much, but Toy Story and PoP are okay. They could've done Cars next year when the new movie comes out.

[sok117]

Honestly I thought Toy Story was a really bad idea to introduce into Lego, I mean, all those new molds arn't really compatable with other creations, as for POP I still don't really like the idea of making it into lego, just not my cup of tea, but then again I welcome flesh heads with open arms, so I'm kind of on the fence with that one, But don't even get me started on how bad Ben 10 is, thats just a fail. But I really did like Batman, Indiana Jones, and Star Wars. Liscenced sets appeal to me when they are based around an action liscence, thats why I never really got into spongebob, TS3 or others, but the ones mentioned above and spiderman did pretty well for their liscences.

[Aanchir]

I imagine the excess of licensed themes we have this year is just a consequence of LEGO trying to get the Disney license off to a good start. Chances are it won't be nearly as abused next year.

Meanwhile, there were only six Ben 10: Alien Force sets, and I'm not entirely surprised they're not selling well, which is a shame because they're very nice sets considering what they're trying to depict and who they're trying to appeal to. Neither the part designs nor the builds are extremely complicated, but that's what gives them some of their charm. I doubt we'll see any more licensed constraction sets for a while.

And Star Wars isn't something we can anticipate an end to. While some feel the theme is stagnating, we haven't seen anything to indicate that it's likely to go away.

So in conclusion, yes, there are a lot of licensed themes this year. But while I don't think it's a big mistake by LEGO, I also don't expect future years to be as licensed-sets-heavy as this year.

[Sandy]

The main problems with the licensed sets in my eyes are 1) the more expensive prices, and 2) the fact that they're based on a license. When we went to the United States last month, I went to a few big toy stores there, and saw shelf-loads of Toy Story-merchandise and Ben 10 toys etc. I don't believe LEGO sets just stand out from there as well, and even if they do, the parents just take one look at the price tag and decide it's better to get a cheap plastic or plushie Buzz Lightyear instead.

On the opposite, the classic non-licensed LEGO themes have a unique, timeless appeal to them. They're not just based on a trend or an upcoming movie, but they're based on everlasting themes that kids have played out for decades - police officers, knights, space travelers. That's something many parents value, really.

[Derek]

I feel like there are too many of these skeptical threads lately. I can understand some of them (like this one brings up a good point...) but it seems to me like ones like this are pushing it.

In my humble opinion, we just need to trust the company. If the licensed sets don't sell too well, they will learn from their mistakes for the future. The Lego-original sets like City, etc. seem to be better than they ever have. As long as they keep their great quality in their "in-house" themes, I don't think we have anything to worry about. The "fad" licensed sets that come and go seem to be becoming a growing trend and I think we should just get used to them or we will grow to resent the company.

Just my two cents.

[Rick]

On the opposite, the classic non-licensed LEGO themes have a unique, timeless appeal to them. They're not just based on a trend or an upcoming movie, but they're based on everlasting themes that kids have played out for decades - police officers, knights, space travelers. That's something many parents value, really.

This would be my view as well, but...

In my humble opinion, we just need to trust the company. If the licensed sets don't sell too well, they will learn from their mistakes for the future. The Lego-original sets like City, etc. seem to be better than they ever have. As long as they keep their great quality in their "in-house" themes, I don't think we have anything to worry about. The "fad" licensed sets that come and go seem to be becoming a growing trend and I think we should just get used to them or we will grow to resent the company.

... they still keep pushing out these licensed themes, so they must be making money on them. A positive side-effect seems to be that a lot of the new pieces introduced seem to be produced (initially at least) for licensed sets. Look at all the new pieces PoP has brought us. These inevitably spill over to the classic themes at one time or another.

[Blondie-Wan]

The main problems with the licensed sets in my eyes are 1) the more expensive prices, and 2) the fact that they're based on a license. When we went to the United States last month, I went to a few big toy stores there, and saw shelf-loads of Toy Story-merchandise and Ben 10 toys etc. I don't believe LEGO sets just stand out from there as well, and even if they do, the parents just take one look at the price tag and decide it's better to get a cheap plastic or plushie Buzz Lightyear instead.

If that's the case, then parents simply buy the other, non-LEGO toys, and indeed some of them do, but not all. We all know LEGO continues to sell well; some themes sell better than others, but I don't think whether a set is licensed or not necessarily dictates anything. The best-selling themes include a mix of licensed and original themes, and the most poorly-selling themes also include a mix of licensed and original themes.

On the opposite, the classic non-licensed LEGO themes have a unique, timeless appeal to them. They're not just based on a trend or an upcoming movie, but they're based on everlasting themes that kids have played out for decades - police officers, knights, space travelers. That's something many parents value, really.

In fairness, Pixar's movies meet that same standard, IMO. If LEGO must use licenses, at least Toy Story is a great one that really fits LEGO's own values and aesthetics. I don't know how long it can actually go as a LEGO theme - I'm afraid it might not endure as long as I'd like, honestly - but I do think that in terms of everything it represents, it fits LEGO like a glove, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that LEGO's people feel the same way. And Star Wars, at this point, has endured as a mammothly popular toy theme for over thirty years. Whatever one may think of the movies (or of LEGO or other toys based on them), I think it fits the description "based on everlasting themes that kids have played out for decades" as well as anything ever did.

[Superkalle]

I imagine the excess of licensed themes we have this year is just a consequence of LEGO trying to get the Disney license off to a good start. Chances are it won't be nearly as abused next year.

This could very well be true. We'll see how it evolves.

[lightningtiger]

It's not that is too many licenced themes, but maybe the wrong ones or really bad timing !

Speedracer was just wrong, it sold poorly (though my son loves playing with the cars), in the bad timing area, one name.....BATMAN.....canning that theme has been a goldmine for ebay and BL.

You must remember the toy industry is a multi-billion dollar one, they (the toy markers) are battling it out for those parent's, grandparents, uncles and aunties cash and it's like pop music what is the latest fad the kids want. Yes, all the current themes have a short life, because the next great thing is always around the corner.

Interesting piece of info was given to me a Toyworld store, I asked why there wasn't much SW gear in general, she said it doesn't sell well, then I said SW Lego, 'Ah, now that sells well !' It depends on where the stores are, the kinds of children/families live there, the amount of money able to be spent by those families, the variables to too great to keep on listing.

With these extra themes, we do get new parts whichg makes MOCing just that little easier or even better looking !

Just think about this - Lego have only released 5 PoP sets and 25 City ones, I think Lego might have learn't there mistakes and know that the original internal themes of city and space, will always be the best selling - that's why there is so many of those released each and every year.

Fads come and go, Lego is timeless.

I'm a conformist! !

[Svelte]

Interesting topic! The June catalogue arrived last week and it did strike me how many different types of licensed seemed to be flooding its pages - Duplo Toy Story 3, Spongebob, Toy Story 3, Toy Story, Prince of Persia, Ben 10, Alien Force, the Lamborghini sets...

But as lightningtiger points out, these themes are often very limited in comparison with the 'major' house themes like City (Fire, Airport, Trains, special releases), a major action theme like Atlantis (14 sets this year) or a mega-theme like Star Wars (18 or 19 sets including Exclusives). Ben 10 has 6. PoP has 5. Even Toy Story 3 only has a few sets with one or two retailer exclusives depending where you live. I think the way LEGO handles licenses is different than what it used to be and more in line with other retail products - short bursts with lots of sales in a concentrated period of time when the movie is released and then it vanishes from shelves. Indy KOTCS followed this model - big promo push, sets not restocked. Even the wave 3 classic Indy sets were available for less than a year before being clearanced from S@H.

As Rick says, the flipside is that often we do get more interesting parts and pieces from Licensed themes. This includes figs too. City might introduce a few new faces or torsos per year whereas a Licensed theme has to introduce a whole new lineup of characters. Look at the forthcoming Harry Potter line! Only 6 sets but amazing new moulds and prints for the figs, and check out this page from the catalogue on the bottom left where they are all lined up together. It's pretty impressive (and the sets are pretty nice too ) :

It might sting to say this, but I like Licensed themes a little more as overall they are better designed than regular in-house lines. Star Wars compared to Space is a classic example. The detail and execution of vehicles is much more satisfying than the largely simple Space theme vehicles. While I do like some Action themes, I think the design is often lacking and a little cheap, whereas in Licensed themes LEGO seems to have to go an extra step to please the licensee (not to mention that they gain access to the property's artwork and concepts which reduces their own development time/ costs). Think of the Atlantis wave 1 vehicles with their exposed dark bley Technic beams with attached panels, simple cockpit interiors and very simple shooting mechanisms. You almost never see anything as clever as the sliding door mechanism of say, the 8036 Separatist's Shuttle, in a regular System set.

So yes, Licensed sets may be a bit pricier (moreso in non-US countries) but I'd rather pay a bit more and have amazing figs and great set designs than just the regular City figs or Action Theme figs with their continually tortured and distorted faces (Power Miners, Atlantis, World Racers...) and the usual array of vehicles and us vs them playsets....

[vexorian]

Well, if we go theme count, licenses are clearly the minority. But what about set by set?

According to brickset, in 2010 we have 6 Ben 10 sets. 6 PoP, and 15 toy story. I am not really counting SW, because that set is a given, we all now it is successful and LEGO would not ever stop making sets of them.

We have then 27 licensed sets from licenses that are not clear how succesful will be. Well, in fact PoP was a terrible, terrible movie that bombed in theaters so I don't think many people are really interested in those sets for the license. Rather I guess FOLs will want the sets for the piece and animal selection. The bad news for them is that if TLG would have gone for an Middle-Eastern theme, these sets would have been far less expensive.

Then we have Ben 10. I think these guys can manage to be somehow succesful, as much as I hate those sets due to their incredibly low (design quality * piece count) / (price) ratio. But I don't really have any idea how successful or not these things will be. Nevertheless, 6 sets a year is hardly significant, it sounds more like a market experiment if you ask.

Then we have Toy Story. I think the movie will be a success among kids and parents and thus this was probably a good bet. Plus it gives us AFOLs a variety of pieces in colors and shapes that is interesting.

Well, to conclude I don't think there are currently many licensed themes. Of the four licensed themes this year, two are indeed dubious, but LEGO were aware of it and thus they have only made 6 sets for each of them. The other two licenses do have plenty of sets. But both starwars and toy story are solid franchises imho.

[The Green Brick Giant]

I don't think they're pushing out too many liscensed sets. I think the problem with some of the current lineup is that it just doesn't have the mass appeal like Star Wars or Indiana Jones. I would wager that if you replaced PoP, Toy Story, or Ben 10 with a property that spans several decades, like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, that sales would probably shoot up. Having said that, I still think that TLG should always try out a new property, because you never really know when something is going to take off and appeal to a wider audience.

If Indiana Jones sets sold so well then they would still be making new sets this year.

Plus saying things that span decades... Toy Story is 15 years old, that's two decades, PoP was a NES game 25 years ago, that's three decades.

Theses are also Disney licenses, so it's not like they paid a lot for a failure (Speed Racers), PoP is dead, Toy Story I think is selling fine for the most part, next year we most likely will get a PotC theme to replace regular Pirates and PoP.

There really isn't that many license themes in System scale, just Star Wars, PoP, TS and soon to be Harry Potter. They are all a mixture of different themes, space, western, desert, castle, and I think that's a good thing, as a LEGO fan you can get normal Castle or Pop or HP, you can get Star Wars or Space Police or Buzz's space ship. LEGO won't make a historic type theme like PoP or IJ anymore because they don't sell (LEGO sets sell better with a vehicle), and PoP might prove that even more.

[vexorian]

Plus saying things that span decades... Toy Story is 15 years old, that's two decades, PoP was a NES game 25 years ago, that's three decades.

<- Big PoP 1 and 2 fan. Hated PoP after wards. Will keep hatin' after the crappy movie.

[Hewman]

I've actually found that the majority of sets I'm buying these days are licensed. I haven't even seen the PoP movie but I love the sets, and their pricing was very reasonable for a licensed set. The licensed figs are often more interesting than non-licensed themes as there is more obvious variety as individual characters need to be easily identifiable. Also, as others have said, the new molds that have arisen because they were needed for a licensed set are fantastic as they add to the brick selection for all sets.

Finally, I'm sure that Lego pays very different license fees depending on the movie/tv show, and being in the business they are, there will always some themes that fail, and some that have success beyond expectations, but there's no sure fire way of knowing this until they've been released.

[streifen]

i would think LEGO did come out too many sets this time round in a very short space of time. was just at my local store last weekend. saw the new Star Wars in. PoP and Toy Story already there with Ben10.

looking at the prices of the new Star Wars, i am really considering if i need to get (only the Original Trilogy though for me) as pockets are shrinking.

[Blondie-Wan]

If Indiana Jones sets sold so well then they would still be making new sets this year.

My understanding is that the Indy line was put on hiatus to make room in TLG's product lineup for Prince of Persia. I don't know if I should actually be optimistic it'll return, but I do think it's at least a possibility (particularly with next year being the 30th anniversary of the series).

Plus saying things that span decades... Toy Story is 15 years old, that's two decades, PoP was a NES game 25 years ago, that's three decades.

Sure, although Prince of Persia as a LEGO theme is really only about the movie, not about the games the movie is based on, and the movie doesn't appear to be one that'll endure in audiences hearts and minds for decades to come. Now, Toy Story, on the other hand, is an acknowledged classic, and one that's probably more in keeping with LEGO's own values and feel to boot.

Theses are also Disney licenses, so it's not like they paid a lot for a failure (Speed Racers), PoP is dead, Toy Story I think is selling fine for the most part, next year we most likely will get a PotC theme to replace regular Pirates and PoP.

There really isn't that many license themes in System scale, just Star Wars, PoP, TS and soon to be Harry Potter. They are all a mixture of different themes, space, western, desert, castle, and I think that's a good thing, as a LEGO fan you can get normal Castle or Pop or HP, you can get Star Wars or Space Police or Buzz's space ship. LEGO won't make a historic type theme like PoP or IJ anymore because they don't sell (LEGO sets sell better with a vehicle), and PoP might prove that even more.

IJ sold very well at launch, at least according to LEGO itself, and nearly all the sets produced in the line were in fact available for close to a year or more, with a couple available quite a bit longer than that (Temple Escape, Temple of the Crystal Skull). It's been only in the last couple weeks that the sets from last year's August wave were finally clearanced and sold out in Shop at Home; that's about a year, and I do still see the sets at both Target and Toys 'R' Us. The only regular retail set that was available for significantly less than a year is Jungle Duel.

[Svelte]

My understanding is that the Indy line was put on hiatus to make room in TLG's product lineup for Prince of Persia. I don't know if I should actually be optimistic it'll return, but I do think it's at least a possibility (particularly with next year being the 30th anniversary of the series).

I haven't seen a shred of evidence that suggests this is the case. A few people floated this theory when it was clear Indy wasn't coming back in 2010, but that's all it was - a theory.

[Delta 38]

I think Cars and Ben 10 are too much, but Toy Story and PoP are okay. They could've done Cars next year when the new movie comes out.

Agreed. I also agree with ttoole73 in saying that they just don't have the appeal.

Personally, I'd actually like to see more licensed sets providing that I was somewhat familiar with them or interested.

[The Green Brick Giant]

I haven't seen a shred of evidence that suggests this is the case. A few people floated this theory when it was clear Indy wasn't coming back in 2010, but that's all it was - a theory.

It might come back for a 30th set, but yeah, I doubt that is the case. There are three castles this year and LEGO doesn't care, you just spread the sets out. You would keep the line going with even just 2-3 sets so people still know of the line.

[Blondie-Wan]

I haven't seen a shred of evidence that suggests this is the case. A few people floated this theory when it was clear Indy wasn't coming back in 2010, but that's all it was - a theory.

That's why I said I thought it was a possibility, of course, rather than something I thought was likely (I did also say I didn't know that I should be optimistic).

I do agree it's not especially likely - we'd probably have heard something about it by now - but I don't think it's completely out of the question.

[natelite]

avatar (aang the airbender, not the 3d version) is coming to the cinema...will TLC release new avatar sets? there were only 2 sets in that short lived series. still need toph to complete the 4 master benders.

i thought that cartoon show actually has a lot of charm. and plenty of oriental headgears and fun sets to make. for e.g. they could have made the omashu delivery system (i.e. chutes and slides). there's also the mechanical city in the sky.

oh well... hope they figure out what else to make when the SW license run out in 2011.

[Blondie-Wan]

oh well... hope they figure out what else to make when the SW license run out in 2011.

Haven't they already renewed it?

[The Green Brick Giant]

Haven't they already renewed it?

They renewed it once, and the new date is 2011, I don't think there is any official renewal news yet.

However it most likely will get renewed and the battle packs will cost $30, a TIE Fighter will be $150 and a AT-TE will be $350.