Any Apple fans?

[def]

Some of the DIY pricing in that article makes no sense.

You'll have to take that up with the owners of pcmech.com Perhaps you're right about prices, perhaps the writer was quoting general prices. For example, I live in Okinawa. If I wanted to build a computer, I'd have to buy through big box stores or Amazon. If I lived in Tokyo, I could spend a chunk less by shopping in Akihabara.

But these price complaints seem way too specific to me. People saying "I built my own for $xxx" doesn't really mean much difference to the average buyer. Like, my mom is not going to go parts shopping to buy a tricked out hot-rod of a computer. Generally speaking, if you bought a Mac, it would cost not too far off a similarly priced PC. If you're really techie and tend to build your own machines, well, let's factor in your shopping and construction time. Apple ships to your door in 24 hours Not to say they're cheap, especially the Powerbooks are now out of my price range...

[CP5670]

You'll have to take that up with the owners of pcmech.com Perhaps you're right about prices, perhaps the writer was quoting general prices. For example, I live in Okinawa. If I wanted to build a computer, I'd have to buy through big box stores or Amazon. If I lived in Tokyo, I could spend a chunk less by shopping in Akihabara.

But these price complaints seem way too specific to me. People saying "I built my own for $xxx" doesn't really mean much difference to the average buyer. Like, my mom is not going to go parts shopping to buy a tricked out hot-rod of a computer. Generally speaking, if you bought a Mac, it would cost not too far off a similarly priced PC. If you're really techie and tend to build your own machines, well, let's factor in your shopping and construction time. Apple ships to your door in 24 hours Not to say they're cheap, especially the Powerbooks are now out of my price range...

They specifically mention Newegg for the DIY prices, which is where I get a lot of my stuff.

I was just giving an example showing that their analysis of the DIY option is flawed. I think they might have a point about Apple versus other OEMs, which as you say is the most relevant for a typical computer user, but I don't really fall into that category myself. If you factor in the extra time needed for DIY, then it also makes sense to account for the substantial performance gains you can get that way.

Edited January 10, 2010 by CP5670

[def]

They specifically mention Newegg for the DIY prices, which is where I get a lot of my stuff.

I was just giving an example showing that their analysis of the DIY option is flawed. I think they might have a point about Apple versus other OEMs, which as you say is the most relevant for a typical computer user, but I don't really fall into that category myself. If you factor in the extra time needed for DIY, then it also makes sense to account for the substantial performance gains you can get that way.

Fair enough. As a ten year Mac user, I think I've just gotten fed up with price complaints in general, and I draw the line at hearing it at Eurobricks! I'm reasonably techie. I don't build my own, but I have dismantled my iMac to swap out the hard drive, and I've set up a few friends' computers. So I love talking with other computer literate people. But whenever I encounter a PC person in person or online, they almost always spit hate out at Mac, and as often as not, they have little experience with them, at least in the last decade (that's not aimed at you, I don't know your experience). I realize there is brand loyalty, but hating on Mac is really similar to hating on Lego. It's a premium brand that ignores the low-end market. Sure they don't offer a $500 computer, but as a brand, it's not in their best interest to offer one.

The prices have definitely gotten better since I first bought a Mac, adjusting for inflation. My first set up cost me $4,500 Canadian (Mac tower, monitor, burner, scanner, printer). Now I think you could get an updated contemporary set up for $2,500.

[CP5670]

Fair enough. As a ten year Mac user, I think I've just gotten fed up with price complaints in general, and I draw the line at hearing it at Eurobricks! I'm reasonably techie. I don't build my own, but I have dismantled my iMac to swap out the hard drive, and I've set up a few friends' computers. So I love talking with other computer literate people. But whenever I encounter a PC person in person or online, they almost always spit hate out at Mac, and as often as not, they have little experience with them, at least in the last decade (that's not aimed at you, I don't know your experience). I realize there is brand loyalty, but hating on Mac is really similar to hating on Lego. It's a premium brand that ignores the low-end market. Sure they don't offer a $500 computer, but as a brand, it's not in their best interest to offer one.

The prices have definitely gotten better since I first bought a Mac, adjusting for inflation. My first set up cost me $4,500 Canadian (Mac tower, monitor, burner, scanner, printer). Now I think you could get an updated contemporary set up for $2,500.

The thing is that the Mac is not a "premium brand" in any performance or technological sense today. As I said earlier, it actually used to be like this at one time and I was a fan of Macs back then, but Apple has long since changed its business strategy from that. Today, their products are decent enough for average PC users, but not necessarily any better or worse than OEM Windows PCs. They are well suited for some specialized purposes (like that particular video editing program someone mentioned), and for other specialized needs like mine (games and numerical computation), there are much better choices.

Macs are certainly cheaper today than they used to be, but that applies to all computer prices in general. I remember the top of the line 68030 Macs were around $12000 in the early 90s.

[def]

They are well suited for some specialized purposes (like that particular video editing program someone mentioned), and for other specialized needs like mine (games and numerical computation), there are much better choices.

Macs are becoming more and more useless for games. I was hoping that that would improve with the switch to Intel, but it seems to have gotten worse. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I play games, and that's a frustration. And you're right, computers across the spectrum have dropped in price. But it has made Mac no longer just an upper middle class object.

As for the "premium" title, you're right here too. They are mid to high range. It's better to just say they are not a discount company. A company like Dell which think a bottom-line $500 machine is a good thing, rather than a waste of money since the technology gets outdated and frustrating so fast, is something that Apple doesn't want to be.

Something I hate about Apple? Their mouses. I hate them. I've never used any of them. For all I like about Apple design, their mouse design is utterly ignorant.

[Eskallon]

Well I like apple computers and they work very well for me.(Well I have only have a macbook)

There Ipods are good but in some ways itunes annoy me. I don't like the iphone much though. I am a fan of Nokia and always will be, there is nothing wrong with the phones, I just don't like them that much.

Overall I like apple products but am not a big fan and I still use other products.

[hhcBrick]

I write software for Macintosh, so yes, I am a fan.

[Calanon]

I love Apple Macs (Typing this on a Vista...) and my family own 1 iPhone, 1 iPod nano (mine), and a Macbook pro.

I find them alot easier to use, and also a lot more elegant to use too. Anything aesthetically good and practically good, I tend to like alot.

[Big Cam]

Does anyone in the forum consider themselves as major Apple fans?

I am a huge fan. We have 3 Macs, 1 MacBook, 6 iPods and 2 iPhones in our family of 5. I am always reading up on the latest news about upcoming products and reading about patents. I always watch their keynote speeches on their website and I am eagerly awaiting January 27th because of their rumoured keyote which my show off the rumoured Apple Tablet.

A bit of a revival but was anyone impressed with the announcment of the ipad?

I was shocked that it can't multitask with an internet connection, like listen to streaming radio and surf the web. Also they gave it a stand 4:3 ratio screen when everything else is going to the 16:9 format, so watching videos there will always be a black bar at the top and bottom. It's like they forgot a few fundamental things.

To me it's like a glorified ipod, I mean I still think it's really cool, and I hope my brother in law who is a tech nerd, gets one so I can play with it.

[RileyC]

Yeah I have to disagree with you Big Cam. I think the iPad is sub par compared to apple's standards but still a really great device. I would much rather buy an iPad than buy a netbook. The iPad is a good size imo. It would be good for business man because it will be able to fit into a briefcase without being really heavy. Its disappointing though with all these years of rumours and hype it just turned out to be just that. Sure it looks like a great device but with all those years I really did think it was going to be so revolutionary like the iPod. Also, who really came up with the name? Its just calling to be made fun of and its started.

[Piranha]

I saw the ipad and yes the name is ok ( ) , I thought it was going to be called the islate or something similar

It looks like well a huge ipod touch. However it does have different features and is cool.

I won't be replacing a laptop anytime soon with one of these however , I think this as an attachment on a Macbook, where the screen separates (physically) into this tablet mode and then you can attach it back to the main unit would be nice.

Now this over a netbook, definitely, because well a netbook is like miniature laptop, cute, but kind of pointless I always thought.

This is different and a great replacement.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Macoco

[Siegfried]

I think this as an attachment on a Macbook, where the screen separates (physically) into this tablet mode and then you can attach it back to the main unit would be nice.

Microsoft did something like that back in 2003 but they were too early and the device ended up costing more than a computer.

Now this over a netbook, definitely, because well a netbook is like miniature laptop, cute, but kind of pointless I always thought.

Useless? Hardly! While I was moving I ran a (small) company and helped run EB for over a month on one. (I've chambered many people on the chamber... ) It was also invaluable for image transfers from my camera and for general communication. At least once I fired it up in the car to view an on-line map! Netbooks (unlike the iPad) don't need a computer for storage or management, have hard drives, USB ports (needed so I can use any mobile network), flash drive ports, can run the exact same software my desktop does, multi task, include a camera, can be just tossed into a bag due to the clamshell design and has one of those keyboard things. Mine cost me $350 AUD! I'll take that over a oversized iPhone anyday.

[def]

I won't be buying an iPad. It's just a big iPhone. An iPhone is alright, but the strict restrictions on software and the inability to multitask make it a heck of a lot less useful than a laptop. The iPad is cheaper than a notebook computer, but the savings aren't worth the frustrations, and, frankly, lack of dignity in having Mac approve all software on the machine. I'm a grown-up, and can decide for myself. It wouldn't be bad for my wife, who doesn't do much with the old laptop I gave her, but it's no good for me.

Here's a good summary of some of the problems with the iPad

http://lifehacker.com/5458690/the-problem-...-the-apple-ipad

And that site is pretty awesome for the techie of us out there

[Piranha]

Useless? Hardly! While I was moving I ran a (small) company and helped run EB for over a month on one. (I've chambered many people on the chamber... ) It was also invaluable for image transfers from my camera and for general communication. At least once I fired it up in the car to view an on-line map! Netbooks (unlike the iPad) don't need a computer for storage or management, have hard drives, USB ports (needed so I can use any mobile network), flash drive ports, can run the exact same software my desktop does, multi task, include a camera, can be just tossed into a bag due to the clamshell design and has one of those keyboard things. Mine cost me $350 AUD! I'll take that over a oversized iPhone anyday.

Ok they are sometimes useful

[prateek]

Useless? Hardly! While I was moving I ran a (small) company and helped run EB for over a month on one. (I've chambered many people on the chamber... ) It was also invaluable for image transfers from my camera and for general communication. At least once I fired it up in the car to view an on-line map! Netbooks (unlike the iPad) don't need a computer for storage or management, have hard drives, USB ports (needed so I can use any mobile network), flash drive ports, can run the exact same software my desktop does, multi task, include a camera, can be just tossed into a bag due to the clamshell design and has one of those keyboard things. Mine cost me $350 AUD! I'll take that over a oversized iPhone anyday.

I agree. Why not just get a netbook over an iPad. A netbook is cheaper than an iPad too. I was expecting Apple to make some sort of a tablet PC, oh wait, never mind, tablet Mac (), but no, they had to make a bigger iPhone without the phone part.

[RileyC]

Siegfried's case is different (just because he is a basket case ). An average user wouldn't be running a website and a small company. The iPad isn't supposed to be a netbook because Apple doesn't see them as a viable market. You could say that its Apple's take on a netbook without conforming into the category. It is supposed to be a on-the-go product which is easy to carry and use. Sure the Tablet category hasn't been the most successful but I think that the new iPad product line could change that just like the iPod did and somewhat so did the iPhone. Sure the first generation has some kinks but as the line progresses the iPad will get better and better.

[Siegfried]

Siegfried's case is different (just because he is a basket case ).

I'm not so sure. While there were many who were wrong and underestimated the iPod when it first come out (me included) I think people expect more of a device in this category. For this reason the media have been very divided on this. A device that goes in your pocket that has limited functionality is to be expected, but one of this size is a different matter. To me, the iPad does nothing especially well.

Video? Not enough storage with no external expansion, it's not wide screen, and the speaker is mono.

Books? No digital ink screen.

Work? Limited software and no keyboard.

Presentations? No video out.

Internet? No flash no choice of browser.

Music? Waaaay to big and only mono speaker. Limited to supported codecs.

EMail? Most people have their own preferred software and thus it'll only be good for temporary usage.

Photos? Lack of external media makes it impractical.

Communications? Lack of a camera is an odd choice considering how cheap they are now. Some software isn't available 'cos Apple don't want you to have it.

Games? Time will tell, but the common interface style of the iTouch/iPhone games (tilting and/or edge buttons) won't work as well due to size/weigh/bezel width. I can't see developers prioritising for the iPad at this stage.

In many ways the iPhone/iTouch is superior. But chances are I am wrong. I thought at the time (and still do) that the iPod was overrated and overpriced, and while the price has improved I still wouldn't buy one. For years I've dreamed of having a computer that I can run standard software on and take it everywhere and I have that now. The iPad is a toy. A pretty one yes, but why someone would choose this over a iTouch or Netbook/iMac is quite beyond me.

[Clone OPatra]

I too agree the iPad seems pretty terrible. Not that I actually have a Touch, but if I wanted something to carry around on which to browse the internet all the time the Touch certainly seems better than the iPad.

Though I think some of your points are incorrect Siegfried (pretty sure it is widescreen, you can probably call up a full touch-keyboard since it's wide enough), your general thoughts seem quite right. You can't really upload pictures to it or edit them on software, so what's the good in that? The main thing I think is wrong with it is the size of the thing. Reading the product descriptions, it doesn't sound like that would fit in any normal-sized pocket, so how are you really supposed to carry it around with you?

I'll probably turn out to be wrong, but right now it seems like Apple has another Newton on their hands.

[Siegfried]

Though I think some of your points are incorrect Siegfried (pretty sure it is widescreen, you can probably call up a full touch-keyboard since it's wide enough), your general thoughts seem quite right.

Thanks... but it's not wide screen (1024x768) and on screen keyboards sux. For one they are not the same as a physical one... and secondly they waste screen space! I'm cool with small keyboards (I still use my Treo 600 for various reasons) but I've never liked virtual ones.

I wish they did bring back the Newton. I loved Apple then....

[Clone OPatra]

Maybe I'm thinking of widescreen in a much more literal sense, since the thing is clearly taller than it is wide, which means if you turn it on its side it will have a widescreen, and not be a square.

[Siegfried]

Maybe I'm thinking of widescreen in a much more literal sense, since the thing is clearly taller than it is wide, which means if you turn it on its side it will have a widescreen, and not be a square.

But that's not the definition of widescreen; by that definition every TV is widescreen as they are 4:3 (1.33:1). According to me, widescreen is a minimum of 16:9 (1.78:1), or a resolution of something like 1366×768 (1.77:1).

(Technically my Netbook is sorta widescreen as it's 1024×600 / 1.70:1... )

[Clone OPatra]

But that's not the definition of widescreen; by that definition every TV is widescreen as they are 4:3 (1.33:1).

Well, I've got a TV that's a square, but I will shut up about this now. I still think iPad =

[prateek]

Games? Time will tell, but the common interface style of the iTouch/iPhone games (tilting and/or edge buttons) won't work as well due to size/weigh/bezel width. I can't see developers prioritising for the iPad at this stage.

All the apps in the App Store are going to be compatible with the iPad, according to the Keynote Speech.

[Siegfried]

All the apps in the App Store are going to be compatible with the iPad, according to the Keynote Speech.

I know; I've seen the speech. But being binary compatible has nothing to do with ergonomics.

[Big Cam]

I won't be buying an iPad. It's just a big iPhone. An iPhone is alright, but the strict restrictions on software and the inability to multitask make it a heck of a lot less useful than a laptop. The iPad is cheaper than a notebook computer, but the savings aren't worth the frustrations, and, frankly, lack of dignity in having Mac approve all software on the machine. I'm a grown-up, and can decide for myself. It wouldn't be bad for my wife, who doesn't do much with the old laptop I gave her, but it's no good for me.

Here's a good summary of some of the problems with the iPad

http://lifehacker.com/5458690/the-problem-...-the-apple-ipad

And that site is pretty awesome for the techie of us out there

Great post.

For those who "disagreed" with me earlier, I never said it was a bad product, I think it really cool, I just feel there are some really simple standard thigns that they left off, adn I'm not sure why they would do that.