Questions for MOC Builders

[decemberssecond1]

Hey Eurobricks!

I want to expand my LEGO design abilities and knowledge so that I can become a well-rounded builder. I am familiar with the fandom side of the AFOL community, but I want to know more about the artistic and engineering sides as well. I have some questions for MOC builders regarding their design processes. 

What goes through your head when you are designing things? What do you think about or focus on?

How do you go about finding the right bricks for specific details? 

How do you come up with techniques to make complex or organic forms?

Do you like to design or sketch first before you build? What are your tips for effective LEGO sketching?

When you first started building LEGO as an AFOL, did you prefer to recreate things from real life and media or design things from the ground up? What about now?

Do you find that you are more inspired by techniques or ideas?  As in, is it  more common for you to find a cool technique and make a build around it, or have an idea for a build and come up with techniques to make them work?

What advice do you have for someone who is working on developing their building skills?

Thanks so much!

 

Edited February 15 by decemberssecond1
Added question, punctuation change.

[JesseNight]

If you don't have a huge amount of bricks to start experimenting with, Stud.io (or a similar program) is probably a good place to start. It's fairly easy to use, just gotta get familiar with LEGO's naming of parts to find the ones you need and you can experiment and build your heart out digitally before having to order a single brick.

As for the actual buiilding process, it does help to get familiar with different building techniques (from TLG and other MOCs) so you get a clue how to approach certain problems you come across. And as with everything, don't overwhelm yourself with a complex big project... start small, learn, and grow.

[1963maniac]

Use "Rebrickable" to upload your sets and parts. Build some MOCs that will challenge you. Rebrickable will tell you what parts you don't have in the inventory. You will learn some techniques. "Bricklink" and Lego "Pick a Brick are what I use. If you don't have a lot of bricks, buy some sets. Rebrickable can suggest sets to buy. Buy the ones you like. If I don't know how to build a MOC, I try building it first digitally or simultaneously with plastic.

[SpacePolice89]

Sometimes I just get inspired by something that I see during the day at work like a train or a bus and then when I get home I start building it. I also plan more ahead if I make my own designs from scratch like a fort for the Imperial Guards or a M-Tron spaceship. It starts with the thinking process and I imagine how I want it to look like. Then I like to make sketches on paper how it will look (sometimes I skip this if it is a very small MOC). Usually I start with very rough sketches and then gradually make them more detailed. I have paper with brick and plate sized squares that I can use if I want to make very detailed drawings. If I'm lucky I have all or most of the pieces I need but sometimes I need to make a Bricklink order. Sometimes I just want to relax when I'm building and then I just let my imagination flow freely and build something crazy. Most of by builds follow the design language used by Lego from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. The MOCs are usually additions to the existing Lego world and dioramas that I have, they are made up of a mix of real sets, MOCs and landscape.

[Peppermint_M]

-What goes through your head when you are designing things? What do you think about or focus on?

I think about what the final build should look like, what I am aiming to achieve with the MOC in the end. Do I want something to look realistic or bonkers fantasy? 

How do you go about finding the right bricks for specific details? 

I have a good memory for parts, though sometimes I will look through Bricklink if I am not certain. When we watched the LEGO Movie, my brother-in-law joked that it was how I saw the world during the Master Builder parts. 

How do you come up with techniques to make complex or organic forms?

Long experimentation with the parts I have to hand. I have spent many an hour working on Tree builds. Sometimes a nice tree is created, other times I am trying not to swear too loudly after the build has exploded. (My family would joke that they knew I was working on a tree because of the plastic clatter and muted expletives)

Do you like to design or sketch first before you build? What are your tips for effective LEGO sketching?

Sometimes I sketch ideas before I build. Doodles really, but the shape is the first drawing and slowly I draw the parts into the shape I wish to achieve. My advice would be to sketch the final "look" you want, even way out of scale, and then start to doodle the parts combinations you would need to assemble a build.

When you first started building LEGO as an AFOL, did you prefer to recreate things from real life and media or design things from the ground up? What about now?

I never stopped building with LEGO, so the start as an AFOL was simply a case of passing whichever birthday you think qualifies as an Adult. I think the only change is I now know places to share builds and to buy specific parts. 

Do you find that you are more inspired by techniques or ideas?  As in, is it  more common for you to find a cool technique and make a build around it, or have an idea for a build and come up with techniques to make them work?

For me, I think I am more of a decide what I want to build and find techniques to create it. Sometimes it is me just mashing parts together to see what comes out, other times I might borrow from an official set design. 

What advice do you have for someone who is working on developing their building skills?

Never worry about what everyone else is doing. Fads happen in MOC building, but if you spend your time chasing them instead of building what you want, it is not fulfilling. Don't fear failure: Things might fall apart but you gave it a go! Build for you first, sharing a MOC is secondary importance to making something you want to make. 

One other tip: If you want to build up a good collection of parts then keep picking up sets that match what you like to/want to build, especially if you find them reduced in price. You can build up lots of parts to experiment with if you pick up sets with parts in colours you like/want to use then you can build up a good collection. 

That is my advice for building a MOC. 

[TeriXeri]

Start with some small set, or maybe just parts from 1 set, and try to alternate build it into something, just using parts from 1 set.

It amazes me what people come up with.

Edited February 16 by TeriXeri

[Mylenium]

21 hours ago, decemberssecond1 said:

How do you go about finding the right bricks for specific details?

Simply knowledge and experience. You have to have built a bunch of sets with diverse elements plus you should at least know where to look for specific parts on Bricklink.

21 hours ago, decemberssecond1 said:

How do you come up with techniques to make complex or organic forms?

Again experience, but combined with a good grasp of engineering and design principles plus a lot of experimentation.

21 hours ago, decemberssecond1 said:

Do you like to design or sketch first before you build? What are your tips for effective LEGO sketching?

Occasionally, but I don't do "LEGO sketching". It's one of the most critical principles you get taught at any arts/ design school: Consider the medium and pick the right one, but don't let your creativity be limited by it. If you're too specific you lock yourself into a certain mindset that prevents you from exploring alternate solutions because you're trying too hard to make your (potentially flawed) design work.

21 hours ago, decemberssecond1 said:

When you first started building LEGO as an AFOL, did you prefer to recreate things from real life and media or design things from the ground up? What about now?

I don't do "real life". Trying to re-create an object like a Polaroid camera or a vehicle as an exact replica couldn't be any more uninteresting to me. Instead it's about abstraction, reduction and/ or freely exploring ideas and designs. For the rest you can buy enough sets already to put another model on your shelf to catch dust.

21 hours ago, decemberssecond1 said:

Do you find that you are more inspired by techniques or ideas?  As in, is it  more common for you to find a cool technique and make a build around it, or have an idea for a build and come up with techniques to make them work?

Ideas come first. Even when I was more on the engineering side and did Technic I always had to have a concrete use case to even get started. Of course not everything turns out as expected and quite generally I'm a lazy builder whose projects often end up unfinished, but at least I always had good intentions I would argue... ;-)

Mylenium

[decemberssecond1]

11 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Never worry about what everyone else is doing. Fads happen in MOC building, but if you spend your time chasing them instead of building what you want, it is not fulfilling. Don't fear failure: Things might fall apart but you gave it a go! Build for you first, sharing a MOC is secondary importance to making something you want to make. 

 

What do you mean by fads? Like, a popular style or subjects? What are some characteristics of fads that are out now?

Thank you all so much btw! Super inspiring advice!

Edited February 16 by decemberssecond1
Gratitude

[JesseNight]

A "fad" is a short lived hype.
Point being to build for yourself and your own desires, not just to follow the latest trends.

[Peppermint_M]

48 minutes ago, decemberssecond1 said:

What do you mean by fads? Like, a popular style or subjects? What are some characteristics of fads that are out now?

I suppose I used Fad in a rather blunt way, I am not sure of any current building fads, as I am not following them (if that makes sense). I have certain style choices I like to use and chasing approval of those who don't like that choice would not be productive. There seems to be a culture of craving notoriety and kudos in certain places (like Instagram) so everyone builds the same thing instead of building what they want to build so they can get eyes on their build/profile. 

If you want to try building something, then build it, don't set out to build to please someone else first. 

[decemberssecond1]

1 minute ago, Peppermint_M said:

I suppose I used Fad in a rather blunt way, I am not sure of any current building fads, as I am not following them (if that makes sense). I have certain style choices I like to use and chasing approval of those who don't like that choice would not be productive. There seems to be a culture of craving notoriety and kudos in certain places (like Instagram) so everyone builds the same thing instead of building what they want to build so they can get eyes on their build/profile. 

If you want to try building something, then build it, don't set out to build to please someone else first. 

I see what you mean! That is definitely something I need to work on-- oftentimes I end up overdoing or giving up on projects because I think they have to be impressive. Thanks and cheers!

[TeriXeri]

I'm currently working on converting the 2024 small technic bulldozer into a decent minifig compatible set with system parts (so no alternate build this time), basicly doing it purely for myself, to learn.

I do look at instructions once in a while, in this case City 60140: Bulldozer Break-In as inspiration, and sense of scale, but then giving my own style to it. 

I find that I learn the most by just free hand building, no pre planning, just doing spur of the moment ideas and experimentation, but I don't do very large MOCs, or try to restrict myself to real world / licensed accuracy too much either, just mostly for fun.

Of course, I understand that pre planned builds can be very interesting too.

As far as posting MOC's, I think I would mostly do that with just alternate builds, as those are the easiest for people to get parts for, especially if it's a current set.

Edited February 16 by TeriXeri

[Mylenium]

9 hours ago, decemberssecond1 said:

What do you mean by fads? Like, a popular style or subjects? What are some characteristics of fads that are out now?

Not up to speed on the latest "fads", but e.g. when "The Mandalorian" first came out there were loads and loads of MOCs for the Razor Crest, Grogu/ The Child and his crib, other vehicles and props, many of which seemed to be motivated by commercial interests and/ or ego stroking about being the first, not necessarily the builders' own fandom. Rinse repeat for other movies TV series etc.. Even when LEGO bring out a set there's often about a dozen MOCs/ MODs only a few days later with everyone trying to "fix" what they perceive as wrong or a shortcoming, usually for big expensive sets more than small ones. You can really observe these waves rippling through the communities...

Mylenium

[MAB]

57 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

Not up to speed on the latest "fads", but e.g. when "The Mandalorian" first came out there were loads and loads of MOCs for the Razor Crest, Grogu/ The Child and his crib, other vehicles and props, many of which seemed to be motivated by commercial interests and/ or ego stroking about being the first, not necessarily the builders' own fandom. Rinse repeat for other movies TV series etc.. Even when LEGO bring out a set there's often about a dozen MOCs/ MODs only a few days later with everyone trying to "fix" what they perceive as wrong or a shortcoming, usually for big expensive sets more than small ones. You can really observe these waves rippling through the communities...

Mylenium

Quite a few MOCs on eurobricks now seem to be motivated by commercial interests. It used to be IDEAS submissions, now BL Designer Program. It makes sense as a large, successful, sold out BDP set earns the designer up to about £/$/Eur 400,000 before tax, it is no wonder some people take it as a job and heavily promote their submission on every site they can.

But that is at the different end of the spectrum.

[Peppermint_M]

Exactly! I think a lot of people think their MOCs should be a "side hustle" at the very least, so they want it to make money and attract a lot of attention by tagging in to popular trends or putting something up quickly to get views.

I build to please myself, a lot of my MOCs have not gotten photographed yet while I decide if I am truly finished with the build, or I want to improve something first. 

Another thing to be careful of is comparing yourself to other builders too much. Some people have huge collections and lots of space to make enormous structures. Others might have a very modest collection and a love for small builds. Then there are those who are very good at presenting their MOC, the great photographers (or even just the good ones. Heh, I am on the Um-er... end of photography skill!)  

Another tip: Don't be discouraged about low response to a shared MOC, either here or on other platforms. People engage differently with posts now than they did in the past and on other platforms it is a different kettle of fish. This would be part of the "Build for yourself" advice, you gain the enjoyment of a build, sharing it with others is not the most important part. 

Finally, if you do want feedback and advice on a build, be prepared for feedback and advice on a build . I have noticed a trend in recent years that many treat critical assessment as an attack, not simply feedback. Most of the time, there is genuine advice and feedback being shared.

[JesseNight]

11 hours ago, MAB said:

Quite a few MOCs on eurobricks now seem to be motivated by commercial interests. It used to be IDEAS submissions, now BL Designer Program. It makes sense as a large, successful, sold out BDP set earns the designer up to about £/$/Eur 400,000 before tax, it is no wonder some people take it as a job and heavily promote their submission on every site they can.

But that is at the different end of the spectrum.

Can't help but feeling it's a double edged sword... I mean how much is TLG making on those winning sets, while saving costs on having them designed? I bet the prize money to the designer (rather than a fee per sold item) isn't all that much in comparison.
(sorry for straying along here...)

But yeah, different people make MOCs for different reasons. And some take it very seriously. If you do it for fun, make sure it stays fun!

[MAB]

1 hour ago, JesseNight said:

Can't help but feeling it's a double edged sword... I mean how much is TLG making on those winning sets, while saving costs on having them designed? I bet the prize money to the designer (rather than a fee per sold item) isn't all that much in comparison.
(sorry for straying along here...)

But yeah, different people make MOCs for different reasons. And some take it very seriously. If you do it for fun, make sure it stays fun!

I imagine the 5% of net sales is more than in-house designers get. 

[Aanchir]

On 2/17/2024 at 4:23 PM, MAB said:

I imagine the 5% of net sales is more than in-house designers get. 

I mean, in-house designers get an actual salary, which I can't imagine any of them would willingly trade just for single-digit percentage royalties on net sales (especially since a salary means getting paid for all their work, not just for already released sets that they were the lead designer on)!

But I can't imagine LEGO is really saving all that much money through the BrickLink Designer Program. After all, most of their revenue and profits tend to come from kid-targeted sets, and that's also what most of their in-house designers are primarily paid to focus on. So sets targeted at an AFOL audience are small potatoes by comparison

And LEGO is still designing about as many sets in-house as they would be if the BrickLink Designer Program didn't exist, so it's not as though fan-designed sets like that are taking the place of stuff LEGO would be paying designers for otherwise.

Furthermore, the fact that some BrickLink Designer Program sets sell out as quickly as they do should be evidence enough that they aren't being produced in anywhere near the same kind of quantities as most official LEGO sets. Four or five limited-run sets aren't going to be that impactful to LEGO's bottom line.

Honestly, I think the main perk the BrickLink Designer Program has for LEGO (sort of like LEGO Factory and Design byME in previous decades) is fan engagement. Producing fan-designed sets has the potential to get fans more creatively and financially invested in LEGO than in-house sets and themes are likely to manage on their own. And even if somebody opts to buy a BrickLink Designer Program sets instead of a set designed in-house, that still means that they are dedicated LEGO buyers who are likely to go on to buy other LEGO sets (or loose parts from Pick-A-Brick) to complement their collections. Which is obviously something that it's in LEGO's best interest to encourage!

 

Anyway, I'm not the most prolific MOC builder out there by far, but I figure I may as well respond to the main topic while I'm here:

On 2/15/2024 at 12:51 PM, decemberssecond1 said:

What goes through your head when you are designing things? What do you think about or focus on?

How do you go about finding the right bricks for specific details? 

How do you come up with techniques to make complex or organic forms?

Do you like to design or sketch first before you build? What are your tips for effective LEGO sketching?

When you first started building LEGO as an AFOL, did you prefer to recreate things from real life and media or design things from the ground up? What about now?

Do you find that you are more inspired by techniques or ideas?  As in, is it  more common for you to find a cool technique and make a build around it, or have an idea for a build and come up with techniques to make them work?

What advice do you have for someone who is working on developing their building skills?

Thanks so much!

• Some of the things I think about when designing things include what sort of scale I want to aim for, as well as what language I want to focus on. Bright colors or muted ones? Straight edges or curves? Realistic or stylized? Playset-like or model-like?
   
• Finding bricks for specific details can be tricky! For details in a particular color, it can be helpful to browse the parts catalog on Brickset and BrickLink to see what parts are available in that color. For example, on the BrickLink color guide page, you can click any number in the "Parts" column to see all the part shapes available from sets in that color. Whereas if trying to match a particular shape or type of connection point, it can be useful to either use the part tags on Brickset or to search BrickLink by terms related to that shape or color.
   
• Jumping off of the previous comment a bit, several organic-shaped parts on BrickLink can be listed under various geometric terms like "round", "curved", "cone", "cylinder", etc. But it can also be useful to browse by category — there are lots of useful curved parts in vehicle, animal, and windscreen related categories with official and BrickLink names that only identify them by size or intended purpose rather than shape. Once you've found a few nice curvy parts you want to start with, you can start playing around with other curved parts to see which ones will best match and help you to fill in any gaps between them.
  
  Alternatively, if you're making organic models that aren't so smooth and clean-looking (e.g. for a furry creature build or a rough-textured tree build), search terms like "rock", "claw", and "tooth" can help a lot, as can various round or wedge-shaped plates and tiles.
   
• I usually use digital LEGO building programs to start out my process these days just for convenience's sake — sifting through piles of bricks can be noisy, time-consuming, and space-intensive, and can involve a lot of cleanup between build sessions which can be a bit frustrating/demoralizing if a particular build session was not very productive.
   
• I've always got my inspiration from a variety of sources, I feel like. Recreating stuff like my mom and dad's cars, my classrooms at school, or my house/apartment/dorm can be a fun challenge that gets you thinking about the shapes and textures that surround you in real life and the sort of LEGO parts that might let you recreate those at a particular scale. But I'm also a big fan of building characters and creatures from my own imagination, models inspired by specific LEGO sets and themes, or models inspired by books, TV shows, and movies that I'm a fan of. Whenever something seems inspiring, you gotta embrace that!
   
• I feel like sometimes I'm more inspired by techniques, and sometimes more by ideas. I don't think I tend to lean one way or the other in how my models start out — the tricky part for me is following up on that to bring a model to completion where both the core idea AND the building techniques feel especially satisfying.
   
• I'm probably not all that qualified to give advice, since I've hardly produced any MOCs in recent years that I'm happy enough with to share! But I think it is important to always keep trying new things and not get too discouraged when you hit a creative roadblock on a particular model. It's a challenge I'm admittedly still struggling with myself.

[JesseNight]

6 hours ago, Aanchir said:

But I can't imagine LEGO is really saving all that much money through the BrickLink Designer Program. After all, most of their revenue and profits tend to come from kid-targeted sets, and that's also what most of their in-house designers are primarily paid to focus on. So sets targeted at an AFOL audience are small potatoes by comparison

I can't help being curious about numbers here.
Sure I understand the focus is mainly kids... But AFOL generally tend to have a way bigger budget to spend, even if the group itself is smaller. It might differ per world region and per decade, but I've seen plenty of kids who owned no more than 2-3 big sets in all of their childhood, while I see some adults buy 2-3 (or even more) within a few months aiming at a big MOC project they wanna build.

Recently went through my entire collection that I owned as a kid. I was actually surprised how many of it were very small sets. But hey, at that age everything appears bigger! 

Edited February 19 by JesseNight

[MAB]

10 hours ago, JesseNight said:

I can't help being curious about numbers here.
Sure I understand the focus is mainly kids... But AFOL generally tend to have a way bigger budget to spend, even if the group itself is smaller. It might differ per world region and per decade, but I've seen plenty of kids who owned no more than 2-3 big sets in all of their childhood, while I see some adults buy 2-3 (or even more) within a few months aiming at a big MOC project they wanna build.

Recently went through my entire collection that I owned as a kid. I was actually surprised how many of it were very small sets. But hey, at that age everything appears bigger! 

Plus I don't think it is necessarily about saving money. I think the BDP is both a concession to the AFOL crowd (call it community engagement or whatever) and a way to placate the same group when they say LEGO doesn't make what AFOLs want. 

[Mylenium]

15 hours ago, JesseNight said:

Sure I understand the focus is mainly kids... But AFOL generally tend to have a way bigger budget to spend, even if the group itself is smaller. It might differ per world region and per decade, but I've seen plenty of kids who owned no more than 2-3 big sets in all of their childhood, while I see some adults buy 2-3 (or even more) within a few months aiming at a big MOC project they wanna build.

Turnover beats revenue/ grosses. The no. 1 rule of all retail business. That's basically all that matters. And given that many small sets are produced in the millions vs. only a few tens of thousands on most bigger sets, that sure carries weight. Yes, of course, we all could anecdotally cite situations where we were jealous of someone carrying multiple 200+ Euro sets out of a LEGO store, but it's probably nothing compared to the wider market. The example that stuck with me is when a few years ago LEGO revealed how many UCS Millenium Falcons were sold in Europe. It was only around 10000 at that point. Now consider that these packages have actual higher manufacturing cost due to the sheer number of pieces, the elaborate packaging and manuals, are mostly hand packaged and so on and weigh that against what you can earn with them, given the numbers. Point in case: The profit margins very likely aren't as impressive as people may think and not above what you can make with the same number of pieces automatically packed into smaller sets. Beyond LEGO of course charging a premium compared to competitors I would imagine that their grosses across the board balance out and they don't cash in exorbitant amounts on some big sets. And you don't even need to be too skittish about the numbers or the age demographic. There's tons of users who will buy multiple packages even of cheap sets, which offsets the reduced income. Just think about some Star Wars battle packs of which some users have bought 20 or 50. Or stuff like the upcoming Forest Animals: Red Fox (31154). Even I, despite my limited finances, plan to get at least two of those as do I for some other sets. I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that LEGO don't need to sell big sets to make their billions of revenue every year.

Mylenium

[TeriXeri]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:17 AM, JesseNight said:

Recently went through my entire collection that I owned as a kid. I was actually surprised how many of it were very small sets. But hey, at that age everything appears bigger! 

Same here, and to be fair, most large sets were large because of baseplates, not parts, I had only 1 raised baseplate myself via the 2-baseplate Enchanted Island set, but many of the Space bases , Pirate Forts, and Castles of like the early 90s especially had raised or 2 baseplates or both. (That includes Aquazone, Western, Divers, Paradisa etc as well)

I was surprised how large current City sets like 60365: Apartment Building can be, not to mention 60380: Downtown , and those are not AFOL sets by design/marketing/age rating.

Of course, many current vehicles generally are larger too nowadays, with City doing some cars now in 2023/2024 that are slightly larger then the former 6 wide Speed Champions (up to 2019), but still not as huge as 8 wide speed champions (2020 onwards)

 

 

Edited February 21 by TeriXeri

[JesseNight]

I feel old now with my 4 wide vehicles 

As for parts count, even sets of the 90s that were large in size had only between 30% and 70% of equally sized AFOL sets today. I had no idea the difference was that big...

[TeriXeri]

8 hours ago, JesseNight said:

I feel old now with my 4 wide vehicles 

Oh I still like 4 wides, like the car and forklift in 60347: Grocery Store are pretty much modern versions but still faithful to Town scale, for the longest time I had a few custom cabrio cars back then, using those chassis pieces , which are still in use now, from way back 1987 until at least 2023 it has been in sets.

60400: Go-Karts and Race Drivers are nice modern variants of the older Town race cars as well, slightly longer, 4 studs between wheels instead of 3, but still look very classic, despite modern pieces as they are slightly wider due to side tiles.

Edited February 22 by TeriXeri

[JesseNight]

"like" is such a big word...
I must confess I always hated it. For karts and race cars it was really nice and made sense! But an old town sedan that could hold only a single person never sat right with me, even as a very young kid.
Back then they all used 4212b frames, I got a ton of those!