[POLL] Eldorado Fortress Assessment

[Lalib99]

By the way..

https://ideas.lego.com/challenges/66832bc8-3c92-4b55-8904-9a9034437e34/application/cb04700f-5f7c-4153-be18-1753146da9fb

[brimbolet]

10 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Meanwhile, Pirates of Barracuda Bay had a seemingly short production run, and 10320 Eldorado Fortress's production run has apparently been shorted by 24 months.

So this indicates sales for both sets didn't meet expectations.

Don't forget PoBB was not a regular but an ideas set, so Lego couldn't just simply extend the production without changing legal agreements for instance. But even if it had a shorter than expected life span, it was the first nostalgic big hit if I'm not mistaken, without the bay we wouldn't have got a classic space or castle revival at all.

Eldorado Fortress is unfortunately not as impressive (I've seen it only at the Lego store), so I'll buy the most interesting parts only and get the upcoming medieval village instead.

[zinnn]

6 hours ago, Lalib99 said:

By the way..

https://ideas.lego.com/challenges/66832bc8-3c92-4b55-8904-9a9034437e34/application/cb04700f-5f7c-4153-be18-1753146da9fb

This is cool, but tbh I actually prefer the Lego's remake, this Ideas set looks too clean and polished, almost like something made out of basic bricks like the original yellow castle

[TeriXeri]

So far I built about half of the set (Bag 1-6), I like it, but while I was critical about rockwork before, based on pics/instructions, it's much better when seeing it in person, and seeing those modules as seperate smaller "sets" meant to look good from the front and still decent at the rear. 

I agree about the office being shallow, but it's not like it's a dominant flaw, I think the gate being see through is a bigger flaw, as you can clearly see it's empty in the "wide" configuration, basicly the ramp leading to nowhere, with a door , it could at least remain closed 

The little cave spaces and extra stashes definately add to this set as well, and the boat is nice.

Still, I think the Wide configuration, or splitting off the smaller tower sections off is a very nice addition over just a square MOC of the set, also gives it many more options for expansion into a full harbour, or town, like the rockwork acting like a breakwater (especially the main L shape module) . with the option to have the included ship behind it.

It could have simpler rocks, BURPS, etc to allow more cave space, and lower piece count, it could have more classic panel walls, etc, if simplicity and full playset was the intended focus.

But as this is definately built as an expert type of set with a lot of smaller brick and plate stacking, but I think this set really tried to be different and a more advanced model.

A small nitpick would be the front cannon being on a white emplacement, while the bottom should've been yellow, but that color inverted slope had not been made since 2016.

The most fun with this set I think will be designing additional modules, that will fit and look appropriate in different connection points.

Edited January 27 by TeriXeri

[Mister Phes]

5 hours ago, brimbolet said:

Don't forget PoBB was not a regular but an ideas set, so Lego couldn't just simply extend the production without changing legal agreements for instance.

Yes, this is a good point which has been overlooked.

[TeriXeri]

15 hours ago, brimbolet said:

Don't forget PoBB was not a regular but an ideas set, so Lego couldn't just simply extend the production without changing legal agreements for instance.

True it was ideas, but 21318: Tree House has been around since August 2019, and still around now, until at least the end of 2024, so Ideas sets can definately last for very long time.

But on the other hand, a set like Saturn V or Ship in Bottle got re-released with different set numbers.

[Yperio_Bricks]

What are the legal agreements when it comes to unlicensed IDEAS sets? The agreements with the designer of the ideas submission that got selected to become a official set?

[Black Falcon]

17 hours ago, brimbolet said:

Don't forget PoBB was not a regular but an ideas set, so Lego couldn't just simply extend the production without changing legal agreements for instance. But even if it had a shorter than expected life span, it was the first nostalgic big hit if I'm not mistaken, without the bay we wouldn't have got a classic space or castle revival at all.

I don´t think there is any contract that really prevents them from doing such thing. The sets are unlicensed so the only contract would be between Lego and the Fan Designer. Now, I don´t know how exactly those agreements are made of course, but I would doubt that there is any production span or even a number of sets set there. Also, as mentioned above we have seen those Sets retirement dates  changed in both directions already. Why it retired that early is still a mystery to me though.

I wouldn´t be so sure about the classic revival part either. I am not saying it didn´t had any part at all, but the real reason behind this was IMO the 90 year Sets they made - and I doubt they wouldn´t have made them without the Barracuda bay.

[Yperio_Bricks]

I guess every of the re-imagined classic sets has a part in bringing adults back into LEGO.

 

[TeriXeri]

3 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

What are the legal agreements when it comes to unlicensed IDEAS sets? The agreements with the designer of the ideas submission that got selected to become a official set?

The only agreement I can think of is the 1% of revenue from sets that go to the original IDEAS submission creator, but Tree House shows sets can be it around for 4+ years, without needing to re-release the set

Maybe rules changed since Tree House released (2019), as both Saturn V (2017) and Ship in Bottle (2018) were earlier sets and re-released as different numbers (probably not bound to agreements when it's a new set, as the rules also state "follow-up" sets are not compensated).

I can imagine the rules changed so LEGO can keep sets around longer, but at some point the 1% revenue stops, that's my theory at least. 

Most ideas prior to 2019, were only around about 1.5 years.

But yeah, Barracuda Bay retired 2 full years ago and something like the Grand Piano is still around, so strange, but the 3-in-1 ship being around for so long at least tells something that Pirates sets aren't completely unwanted.

 

Edited January 27 by TeriXeri

[Black Falcon]

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Maybe rules changed since Tree House released (2019), as both Saturn V (2017) and Ship in Bottle (2018) were earlier sets and re-released as different numbers (probably not bound to agreements when it's a new set, as the rules also state "follow-up" sets are not compensated).

If I remember correctly it was stated back then that they got new Set numbers because once a Set is retired it can´t be simply brought back - so the difference should be that they decided to late that they would keep them around, when they were already retired.

It was also stated that they asked the fan designers for their ok - it seems very likely that they also still got the 1% from their sets.

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I can imagine the rules changed so LEGO can keep sets around longer, but at some point the 1% revenue stops, that's my theory at least. 

That would really surprise me (and I kinda feel like we would have heard about this if it was a thing, considering all of the designers are afol´s)

[brimbolet]

Apart from the sales revenue I was more thinking that an agreement could specify the total amount of sets for production. To be profitable more NASA sets had to be planned from the start because of the additional license, that's why they were sold over a longer period. This is of course pure guess on my part, but a popular pirate set would be sold out faster? Shame Lego isn't willing to give us a small hint.

[Horation]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:48 PM, brimbolet said:

Apart from the sales revenue I was more thinking that an agreement could specify the total amount of sets for production. To be profitable more NASA sets had to be planned from the start because of the additional license, that's why they were sold over a longer period. This is of course pure guess on my part, but a popular pirate set would be sold out faster? Shame Lego isn't willing to give us a small hint.

There's no such agreement, I believe this is mentioned in the ideas terms of service, or else they'd give a fixed sum, but there's no limit to how many sets

I think the real reason is the number of parts which are unique to the set (sails, hulls, etc...) is the main factor here.

 

[Mister Phes]

It's the BrickLink Designer Program which species the total amount of sets for production...

[CaptainMoore]

I'm a close to @TeriXeri. I've built bags 1 to 8, I only lack building the prison.

I have never owned an Imperial set in my childhood and now I only own the Imperial Trading Post (6277). I'm quite happy that Lego has released this set for people who have missed the original (6276) as me. To be honest, I was on the verge of buying the original model but now I'm not sure anymore. It looks quite close to the original but modernized, with added features, more parts and for a price relatively close to the current original's. BSB was so different that I have bought the original after, but for the Eldorado Fortress, I'm not convinced.

This is something which maybe explains the criticism seen here. For people who already have 6276, I can understand that buying something looking so close is not a real incentive to get the new one. For newcomers in the theme, it's a great opportunity I would say.

I like the new boat, the build is fun and we avoid having like the 200th rowboat in the theme. Plus it makes sense to have it, a fort needs supplies too.

I have enjoyed the build. I was more on the "too many parts for the base side" before but now I can't say I dislike it. Having underground tunnels is more interesting than just a hole one the base.

For me the worst part is the office. I agree that Lego should have closed it. And they could have provided some bricks to close the hole on the left of the tower for the assembled version.

On the criticism of the fortifications, honestly it's not worse than the original. Yes on the front right there's a passage, but 6276 has it too, even going directly into the tower. The walls have tinyer holes in them, for the muskets instead of the canons, better protection for the soldiers than the original looking like a cheese slice 

On the minifigures, I have no problem at all with females. I'm just a bit disappointed by the male pirate, which is too generic.

Aside from the office, my other major downside is the center of the fortress module, which is really to much black for me. I don't have problems for the rest of the docks, even if I would be curious to see how it looks in brown.

Anyway, great set. Maybe not a new fortress which I would have preferred, but a good one.

[MightyThorngren]

I really love this set and have had lots of fun, but I have a few gripes. I don't mind a tiny office, but the cannon being inside the open half kills me, as does tge open gap next to the office. That gap should have been closed off abd the back office should have been walled off with a large window opening to reach in. I wouldn't mind minus 1 canon for a better build. I could spend 10 bucks online for all the parts to that that and other issues, but I really shouldn't have to. That said, they could have easily modified the back tower to fit that third cannon. I guess THAT'S my second beef.

 

So, my third beef would be the Crane is way too big. I appreciate it doesn't take two towers, but it could have been much smaller. The simple crane for the B model in the Creator 3in1 Pirate Ship manages to do it and take up WAY less space.

https://imgur.com/a/voiKFdZ

I would have crafted a similar crane in black and it would have made both the tower and crane usable by minifigures. Obviously it would need some modification, but it beats the behemoth we got. That said, the new crane does look real good.

 

I'm in the camp that has WAY too many female heads. I don't have my old collection to draw from, abd it seems most sets I buy only have 1 minifigure and so now I pretty much have 2 women for every 1 man in my minifugure collection. I don't mind the lady Pirate, but I wish only 1 of the soldier was a girl. I also wish we got at least 1 more soldier.

 

I pretend the pirates in my set are privateers for the Imperials and work with them and tge ship belongs to them.

[Mazin]

I'm surprised that so many people are pointing into Governor's office or obvious leaks in Eldorado's defences, but is it just Lego, a toy, not a superrealistic model of a fortress to be that detailed. So if i would look for problems i'd look for it somewhere else.

I can name two so right away

1 - is that the head of my Governor is somewhat missprinted which never happened in my Legos before! But, i guess i can live with that ;)

( Did anyone else find this kind of defect in their sets recently? This particular one or any others.... ) 

2 - someone who greenlighted those booklets with instructions should be kicked out for not thinking to put numbers on them, cause honestly, i freaked a bit when i saw them, but i manage to learn how to read them quick anyway ;) Still, this problem shouldn't even exist. To me that's a major flaw, and i saw some people online pointing out to that as well. So i'm rather suprised fellow Eurobrick members didn't note that ;)

But booklets are not realy part of the toy... so when it comes to judging the toy itself... 

I don't know what to think honestly, i was very fortunate to be able to win this set, so i didn't have to buy it on my own, and after building it i don't know if i would try to get an another one. For parts maybe, sure, getting new bricks and in large quantities is always great, and it sometimes makes me even more happy then constructing the actual set. New muskets, new cannons, new animals, new faces... and there's plenty of them here. So that's already a plus.

But the biggest problem to me is that building this whole thing... didn't feel like playing with Lego. Or maybe i'm just to much of a kid to fully understand what's 18+ category was all about, to be able to enjoy it as others would.

Let me put it this way, if i could compare it to last two big sets that i bought for myself - i mean LOTR with Cave Troll scene, and Turtles Lair. And boy, as much as i'm not a fan of licences sets, those felt great! I absolutely loved building them, putting all the stickers, arraning all the parts on my shelf, and after toring them down i was always happy to build them again... and i can't wait to do it again. Building part was the kind of Lego experience i didn't even expect... after a long hiatus from the franchise in my life.

The thing with Eldorado, was that, aside from constructing the ship, it didn't feel much like building Lego. Sure, it's better to be fortunate enough to construct such set and to put it on the shelf, but before i finished it up i honestly felt like a regular construction worker at times ;) I mean, some bit were fine, creating all those trap doors, ladders, even the crane, tap room, etc, those were legit Lego elements i was looking for. But building up that baseplate and fortifications... it was a nightmare at times! :P I mean, i understand that Lego changed and it's more detailed, but does it realy nececary to use dozens and dozens bricks just to construct a tower or walls?

I mean, does every surface needs to be polished? 

And one this about the baseplate... i was constantly surprised that after building some very detailed segments the next step was to almost completely cover them by adding new segments! And i can't understand the point of doing that... Like, who's gonna enjoy all those detailed little tunnels that even a minifig want be able to explore? Minilego bats? Spiders? Maybe i didn't get something, but this part i didn't understand.

Sure, using tons of elements to build those fortifications, towers and general baseplate did come with an amazing effect, it looks great in the end. It sure enjoyable as hell to be able to have such a view in ones room and i would have lots of fun with it if i was still a kid and i would actually use it as a playground ... But all those tunnels within the baseplate were kinda pointless to me.  

Then, most importantly, i'm not sure if i would like to building it again. It's honestly, like building a house, once you are finished with all the work you don't want to tore it down and start again ;) But again, maybe that's because i was targeting into something more kid-friendly, like the original, and i'm not a fan of more complicated adult-model-makers oriented approach. 

To me the coolest thing is that i did manage to get Eldorado after all those years, and that i now own so many elements i never had before and i could do so many things with them... tho i will seek to get the original version anyway as well.

The thing is, i got some other toys from other classical franchises this year - He-Man, Skeletor and their battle mounts, and even tho those weren't 100% the same as 80s originals, they absolutely feel that way, and i was shocked i was actually able to buy them and they were the highlight of that year for me. It's like completing a lifelong goal to finally be able play with them.

And Eldorado remake unfortunately doesn't have the same spark. Feeling were different. It looks great on a box, it looks great after being build, i like the addition of the ship, i don't think that it's crucial for it to be completely the same as the original, and i don't mind female heads that much... but it just doesn't feel the same... becaue it doesn't feel as the toy.... it doesn't give the building experience i would expect...

So i would prefer it to be less complicated and more kid oriented next time, if they will try to reproduce it again :)

BTW, now that they used that merchant vessel here and they probably won't reuse it in Imperial Trading Outpost, should they remake it too, i do hope they wil fill that gap with some other classic miniset from the franchise, like a pirate raft or islanders's cataman perhaps :) Actually mixing those elements between sets, "stealing" them from one to add to another one again and again, like they did between Eldorado and Trading Outpost, would be an interesting marketing idea :)