Brushless motors in the lego world - general topic

[vergogneless]

This little boat is so much fun! It's the first time I've seen something like this, and I'm glad to see all the applications of brushless technology with the Lego system.

The motor mount is also interesting! Is the use of panels to limit water splashes?

[vergogneless]

I received my order from TF-Engineering!

It's beyond my expectations, clearly. Excellent quality and ingenious design!

I can't wait to release the next brushless 2.0 models.

 

And thanks again @aFrInaTi0n :D

 

 

 

 

[aFrInaTi0n]

Welcome - if you have the chance to test the small ones, bensch would really be grateful for feedback - I haven't had time yet unfortunately to test them..

[vergogneless]

@aFrInaTi0n Count on me, I will provide feedback very soon because there will be some on my next model!

[Lixander]

I think this would help if anyone wants to have a base for a RC Lego set up, even though it is not in english, you have the links in the description and (auto) translation in english is available (I don`t know that language, so it was pretty hard to understand everything for me too).

Anyway, I also used it, except I added a cheaper remote and receiver, but the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) is very good for its price (it is for brushed motors; I am not sure if this fits the topic :/ ). Also, if you ask, the ESC will be ok with 2x Lego motors, but they must be stock (except the connectors, of course).

Moreover, you can just modify a Lego extension wire and put a RC grade connector, like in the photo (they seem to work, but until the other motors arrive, I can not compare the modified Lego extension wires with the replaced wires on the motors). This way, the motors maintain their original wire.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Lixander

[FriedlS]

18 hours ago, Lixander said:

I think this would help if anyone wants to have a base for a RC Lego set up, even though it is not in english, you have the links in the description and (auto) translation in english is available (I don`t know that language, so it was pretty hard to understand everything for me too).

Anyway, I also used it, except I added a cheaper remote and receiver, but the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) is very good for its price (it is for brushed motors; I am not sure if this fits the topic :/ ). Also, if you ask, the ESC will be ok with 2x Lego motors, but they must be stock (except the connectors, of course).

Moreover, you can just modify a Lego extension wire and put a RC grade connector, like in the photo (they seem to work, but until the other motors arrive, I can not compare the modified Lego extension wires with the replaced wires on the motors). This way, the motors maintain their original wire.

 

Thank you for this instruction!

I am using a similar version of this one in my G-Class:

Friedl
 

Edited August 17, 2023 by FriedlS

[technicbuilder]

11 hours ago, FriedlS said:

Thank you for this instruction!

I am using a similar version of this one in my G-Class:

Friedl
 

I will not use that cable for shure ,i that set-up the Lego wire is way to small for the power u need .

[Lixander]

On 8/17/2023 at 7:49 PM, technicbuilder said:

I will not use that cable for shure ,i that set-up the Lego wire is way to small for the power u need .

It depends on the voltage that the setup has mainly.
My set-up runs on a 2S LiPo battery, so it has 4.20 V on each cell (when fully charged), which gives a maximum of 8.40 V. The Power Functions are made to run at 9 V, so it is below the ”normal” voltage actually.
The motors do heat up, but with any kind of wire (both the hobby grade and the Lego ones), even with 0.60 V less than the ”normal” value.

 

On 8/17/2023 at 8:39 AM, FriedlS said:

Thank you for this instruction!

I am using a similar version of this one in my G-Class:

Friedl
 

No problem. Just be sure that the wires can withstand  the ”power” of the battery.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Lixander

[Daniel-99]

On 8/16/2023 at 5:47 PM, Lixander said:

I think this would help if anyone wants to have a base for a RC Lego set up, even though it is not in english, you have the links in the description and (auto) translation in english is available (I don`t know that language, so it was pretty hard to understand everything for me too).

Anyway, I also used it, except I added a cheaper remote and receiver, but the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) is very good for its price (it is for brushed motors; I am not sure if this fits the topic :/ ). Also, if you ask, the ESC will be ok with 2x Lego motors, but they must be stock (except the connectors, of course).

Moreover, you can just modify a Lego extension wire and put a RC grade connector, like in the photo (they seem to work, but until the other motors arrive, I can not compare the modified Lego extension wires with the replaced wires on the motors). This way, the motors maintain their original wire.

 

Hey! I had a talk with the author of this video, mr. Jonny himself. He Had a big issue with his setup: motors burned out. I guess, they could not keep up with such big power supply in the long run. I think, 2A Li-Po Batteries will not damage motors, especially if you will use FOUR motors instead of TWO. 

[Lixander]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:28 AM, Daniel-99 said:

Hey! I had a talk with the author of this video, mr. Jonny himself. He Had a big issue with his setup: motors burned out. I guess, they could not keep up with such big power supply in the long run. I think, 2A Li-Po Batteries will not damage motors, especially if you will use FOUR motors instead of TWO. 

I see. That was one of my concerns too, the voltage of a 3S battery being too close to the maximum voltage of many Lego motors.

I talked to a relative of mine and he advised me to put a 2S and I did so.

Also, I run a maximum of 2x motors, but until now, they didn`t had problems because of the voltage (as far as I know; I still need to take the electronics to someone to test them thoroughly).

But thanks anyway!

[gyenesvi]

I wonder whether Buwizz motors are better in this respect. They are hopefully designed to be able to run for a long time with the 3s LiPo in the Buwizz 3..

[Daniel-99]

On 8/26/2023 at 2:27 AM, gyenesvi said:

I wonder whether Buwizz motors are better in this respect. They are hopefully designed to be able to run for a long time with the 3s LiPo in the Buwizz 3..

I have tested Buwizz motors with 3S Li-Po in my Falcon truck. Despite the fact it had a great power-to-weight ratio and 4-wheel drive, Buwizz motors were not able to run-speed for more than 45 seconds! More interestingly, it didn't happen then I use 2x Buwizz 3.0 units. I guess, Buwizz units can not provide both 11.4 V and 3 A to the PF outputs, after a few seconds I use full throttle, the battery voltage starts to degenerate, which does not happen with a normal RC Li-Po batteries. 

[gyenesvi]

5 hours ago, Daniel-99 said:

I have tested Buwizz motors with 3S Li-Po in my Falcon truck. Despite the fact it had a great power-to-weight ratio and 4-wheel drive, Buwizz motors were not able to run-speed for more than 45 seconds! More interestingly, it didn't happen then I use 2x Buwizz 3.0 units. I guess, Buwizz units can not provide both 11.4 V and 3 A to the PF outputs, after a few seconds I use full throttle, the battery voltage starts to degenerate, which does not happen with a normal RC Li-Po batteries. 

That's good to know, but that's not what I meant here. I meant whether the motors burn out after prolonged use with 3s LiPo battery, as the Lego RC motors were claimed to burn out in the above discussion.

[Lixander]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:26 PM, Lixander said:

I see. That was one of my concerns too, the voltage of a 3S battery being too close to the maximum voltage of many Lego motors.

I talked to a relative of mine and he advised me to put a 2S and I did so.

Also, I run a maximum of 2x motors, but until now, they didn`t had problems because of the voltage (as far as I know; I still need to take the electronics to someone to test them thoroughly).

But thanks anyway!

By the way............I don`t know what goes wrong for sure, but i already burnt 3 buggy motors. That makes me think that I shouldn`t remove the thermistor, but with the thermistor, it barely moves any model for 1 minute then it stalls. The first 2 burned motors had 2 capacitors, one from production (I should have deleted them though) and one ceramic capacitor (each of the motors).

The last one had just the production capacitor on it; also, the third burnt motor had the metal pins of the Lego connectors melted after it stopped functioning.
As I said, I run a 2S LiPo battery, so the voltage doesn`t exceed 8.40V.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Lixander

[Krxlion]

6 hours ago, Lixander said:

By the way............I don`t know what goes wrong for sure, but i already burnt 3 buggy motors. That makes me think that I shouldn`t remove the thermistor, but with the thermistor, it barely moves any model for 1 minute then it stalls. The first 2 burned motors had 2 capacitors, one from production (I should have deleted them though) and one ceramic capacitor (each of the motors).

The last one had just the production capacitor on it; also, the third burnt motor had the metal pins of the Lego connectors melted after it stopped functioning.
As I said, I run a 2S LiPo battery, so the voltage doesn`t exceed 8.40V.

I have been there and I burnt same amout or even higher number of buggy motors, though with using Buwizz 3.0. Some of those motors were having visible capacitors, some of them don't. The first thing to prevent burning motor is to avoid motor to "stall". If you have big obstycle or high grass, where the motor simply doesn't rotate wheels or rotate them barely, it creates a situation where currency is too high. If it only stops and is not already burnt that is actually very good scenario. I wonder how would Buwizz motors perform, I believe those have better capacitors to prevent "smoking", but who knows. If anyone here burnt a buwizz motor with normal usage, please speak up.

[2GodBDGlory]

I'm not sure if this is relevant here, but I'm currently running two AliExpress buggy motors off of a custom 3S Lithium battery in a WIP 6x6, and haven't had any problems yet (and haven't in previous models with this drivetrain, like my latest Toyota Land Cruiser 70), so they do seem to hold up alright, in my experience!

[Lixander]

17 hours ago, Krxlion said:

I have been there and I burnt same amout or even higher number of buggy motors, though with using Buwizz 3.0. Some of those motors were having visible capacitors, some of them don't. The first thing to prevent burning motor is to avoid motor to "stall". If you have big obstycle or high grass, where the motor simply doesn't rotate wheels or rotate them barely, it creates a situation where currency is too high. If it only stops and is not already burnt that is actually very good scenario. I wonder how would Buwizz motors perform, I believe those have better capacitors to prevent "smoking", but who knows. If anyone here burnt a buwizz motor with normal usage, please speak up.

I understand; the first two motors were burned while running in the grass, so it was totally my fault, one way or the other. But the last one was running on a kind of rubber (that one from the children playgrounds, put on top of the earth or sand) and tarmac, so it is pretty strange. Also I am curious too if someone burnt a BuWizz motor, especially under normal usage. 
Anyway, thanks for the information!

10 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I'm not sure if this is relevant here, but I'm currently running two AliExpress buggy motors off of a custom 3S Lithium battery in a WIP 6x6, and haven't had any problems yet (and haven't in previous models with this drivetrain, like my latest Toyota Land Cruiser 70), so they do seem to hold up alright, in my experience!

I think it is pretty relevant. What are the other electronics that you are using (ESC, remote-transmitter,, servo)?

[2GodBDGlory]

16 hours ago, Lixander said:

I think it is pretty relevant. What are the other electronics that you are using (ESC, remote-transmitter,, servo)?

I was using a pretty non-standard setup I had lying around. Basically it's just an all-in-one circuit board and remote from a ~$80 RC car (bought as replacement parts for ~$15, I'd guess), run off of three 18650 Lithium cells in a 3D-printed housing. Because this circuit board doesn't support standard RC servos, and it's native servo doesn't work at 11+V (the original car was only ~8.6, I think), I'm running a completely parallel steering setup, with a MouldKing 6.0 battery/receiver/remote for proportional control with a standard Lego Servo

[ITSDEEKAY]

I'm glad I'm not the only one out here trying to make these buggy motors faster. I've removed the thermistor from the motors and so far, I've only melted the PF plastics and the motor still works (I just replace the cable+PF plastic part). 

Two models I've tried to use two buggy motors, range rover (i know its heavy) and Ford raptor. I used 30A esc with 3S and 2S Lipo. It runs pretty darn quick but at the same time it melted the PF plastic just as fast. So I went back to using 2L PF motors with 3S lipo and it works just fine. It won't be fast using the buggy motor but at least the L PF motors can climb over bumps and hills vs buggy motors with out melting the plastics. 

I've also tried using two ESC+transmitter to run on each buggy motor on 3s lipo. One of the buggy motor would stall.

On the other hand, I use a 3S lipo with a buggy motor(thermistor removed) on a much smaller scale model and it still works fine for the past few months now.

Edited August 31, 2023 by ITSDEEKAY

[Lixander]

3 hours ago, ITSDEEKAY said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one out here trying to make these buggy motors faster. I've removed the thermistor from the motors and so far, I've only melted the PF plastics and the motor still works (I just replace the cable+PF plastic part). 

Two models I've tried to use two buggy motors, range rover (i know its heavy) and Ford raptor. I used 30A esc with 3S and 2S Lipo. It runs pretty darn quick but at the same time it melted the PF plastic just as fast. So I went back to using 2L PF motors with 3S lipo and it works just fine. It won't be fast using the buggy motor but at least the L PF motors can climb over bumps and hills vs buggy motors with out melting the plastics. 

I've also tried using two ESC+transmitter to run on each buggy motor on 3s lipo. One of the buggy motor would stall.

On the other hand, I use a 3S lipo with a buggy motor(thermistor removed) on a much smaller scale model and it still works fine for the past few months now.

i see. You are lucky - my motors burn without too much warnings, but yours seem to be bullet-proof.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Lixander

[2GodBDGlory]

9 hours ago, ITSDEEKAY said:

Two models I've tried to use two buggy motors, range rover (i know its heav

y) and Ford raptor. I used 30A esc with 3S and 2S Lipo. It runs pretty darn quick but at the same time it melted the PF plastic just as fast. So I went back to using 2L PF motors with 3S lipo and it works just fine. It won't be fast using the buggy motor but at least the L PF motors can climb over bumps and hills vs buggy motors with out melting the plastics. 

Are you talking about the PF plugs melting?

I guess I forgot to mention it, but I had that issue with my buggy motors! In the end, I just soldered in some heavier-duty wire connections to bypass the weak PF plugs

[Lixander]

I might have found a reason why the motors burn, even if the voltage is below 9V.

I just searched the internet and i came across this ( https://www.quora.com/Why-do-motors-burn-in-low-voltage )

 

[gyenesvi]

10 hours ago, Lixander said:

I might have found a reason why the motors burn, even if the voltage is below 9V.

Hmm, that's really interesting. So would that mean that Lego motors, which are designed to be run at 9V, should not be run from 7.2V rechargeable batteries? :) Or is this all about significantly lower voltages?

Actually, I found this on lego.com, lol..

"The LEGO battery box works best with AAA batteries that provide 1.5 volts each. This is because the IR receiver and train motor require almost 9 volts (6x1.5V) in order to work properly. Rechargeable AAA batteries only provide 1.2 volts each, which is why we advise not to use them to power your train."

Also, wonder if the Buwizz motors are designed to be run from 3s LiPo, so ~11V?

[ITSDEEKAY]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:49 AM, Daniel-99 said:

I have tested Buwizz motors with 3S Li-Po in my Falcon truck. Despite the fact it had a great power-to-weight ratio and 4-wheel drive, Buwizz motors were not able to run-speed for more than 45 seconds! More interestingly, it didn't happen then I use 2x Buwizz 3.0 units. I guess, Buwizz units can not provide both 11.4 V and 3 A to the PF outputs, after a few seconds I use full throttle, the battery voltage starts to degenerate, which does not happen with a normal RC Li-Po batteries. 

In your Falcon truck, are you using a transmitter/ESC with your 3S lipo? Kind of curious how you're running that with no issues.

On 8/31/2023 at 3:41 PM, 2GodBDGlory said:

Are you talking about the PF plugs melting?

I guess I forgot to mention it, but I had that issue with my buggy motors! In the end, I just soldered in some heavier-duty wire connections to bypass the weak PF plugs

Yes the PF plugs melts when running 3S with buggy motors. If I soldered the wires I'm sure I'll catch fire eventually but I won't go there.

[Lixander]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:49 AM, gyenesvi said:

Hmm, that's really interesting. So would that mean that Lego motors, which are designed to be run at 9V, should not be run from 7.2V rechargeable batteries? :) Or is this all about significantly lower voltages?

Actually, I found this on lego.com, lol..

"The LEGO battery box works best with AAA batteries that provide 1.5 volts each. This is because the IR receiver and train motor require almost 9 volts (6x1.5V) in order to work properly. Rechargeable AAA batteries only provide 1.2 volts each, which is why we advise not to use them to power your train."

Also, wonder if the Buwizz motors are designed to be run from 3s LiPo, so ~11V?

So it is extremely possible to burn from lower voltage :/

Also, I am curious about the BuWizz voltage too.