Ideal Ideas train.

[Modeltrainman]

LEGO Ideas has been around 10 years now. However, no train has ever made it, licensed, or otherwise. What would the ideal train set be for Ideas? Locomotive, diesel, steam? Individual cars?  Full train?

[JopieK]

Trains are very, very difficult. See the interview that Jim had with Mike Psiaki about it (link). An ideal train should fit in different categories so it won't just appeal to train FOLs. So linking it to e.g. Harry Potter or an other licensed team would help (but for Ideas that is another problem)  A tram is already a less steep hurdle but still more doable I would say. We had the 'universal' creator train of course but that one also had it's challenges. 

 

See this tram: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/b0b4ae39-1c8c-4f31-ad9b-af7df3cabf6a

It was wonderful, a great idea and made it to 10k. But it was rejected by TLG:

"First and foremost, congratulations to kevinszeto for reaching 10,000 supporters on LEGO Ideas, and toward everyone for all of the support of the Vintage Tram project! The results of the LEGO Review are in and you can see full details on the LEGO Ideas Blog.

Review Results for Vintage Tram
Our team has thoroughly considered the possibility of releasing this project as a LEGO set according to the criteria of the LEGO Review. Unfortunately the LEGO Review Board has decided that we will not produce this project as a set.

Thank you to kevinszeto for the passion and creativity that went into this project, and to all of you who voted so that we would have the opportunity to consider this as a potential LEGO set. We’re sorry to deliver this disappointing news.

How do we arrive at our decisions?
By gaining 10,000 supporters, a fan-submitted project moves from the Idea Stage to the Review Stage, where it earns the opportunity to be considered as a future LEGO® set in a process called the “LEGO Review.” Gaining 10,000 Supporters is just the first step in this process.

A "LEGO Review Board" composed of professional set designers, product managers, marketing representatives, and other key team members examine each qualified project. They build concept models and determine if the concept meets our high standards for what it takes to be a LEGO product; including factors such as playability, safety, and fit with the LEGO brand. Every potential LEGO product, including those developed internally, goes through a similar process and must meet the same standards.

The amount of time this takes varies due to all the factors involved. Unfortunately, this process sometimes means that well-conceived projects that gain just-as-passionate followings have to be turned down. Please note that the LEGO Review Board makes all final decisions on which new sets the LEGO Group will release based on LEGO Ideas projects."

[dtomsen]

Serveral wonderful trains have been proposed on LEGO Ideas through the years, some from known great builders, some beautiful beautiful designs, some famous trains with mass appeal and none, except the tram mentioned above (and it still wasn’t picked) have reached the votes necessary (not even above the 4000 mark, I think). Trains are too niche for the masses, one could argue.

And it seems that LEGO knows this very well from their own market research, just look at their current product line, 1 cargo train, 1 passenger train and from time to time 1 train station or a creator train, that’s it. Otherwise they would be producing more train sets for sure.

A LEGO Ideas train set probably would not sell enough in whatever shape or form or however brilliant to be considered a valid option. That is the harsh reality imo.

So it seems futile even trying but I would very much like to be proven wrong ?

Edited September 12, 2018 by dtomsen

[Holodoc]

One of the problems in my opinion is, that the purpose of the ideas' website is to get new people to build with LEGO.

Think about a person who is not familiar with LEGO. Why should he/she support an idea about a LEGO train? In his/her eyes TLC produces this trains: The mentioned passenger and cargo train one every second year.
If this person would be interested in trains he/she would have bought one of those.

Ideas is NOT for us AFOLs to have super-duper sets the company never would produce otherwise. Although sadly enough a lot of us AFOLs think this way.

Don't get me wrong: I love LEGO trains and I have a huge amount of trains from the last years. Still I am satisfied what LEGO released the last years that was 'off-track' to the normal city sets:
Horizon Express 2013
MAERSK Train 2011
Emerals Night 2009

And, yes, the next Creator Expert train is overdue!

Finally we are AFOLs: If TLC doesn't produce what we like it's up to ourselves to put something together that satiesfies our needs. How hard can it be to build the tram mentioned above ourselves?

Okay, that went slightly off topic, but I had to write it.

 

One last point: The official statement from TLC about not producing the tram was really, really poor. It didn't explain anything.

[JopieK]

3 minutes ago, Holodoc said:

One last point: The official statement from TLC about not producing the tram was really, really poor. It didn't explain anything.

You can say that again, that is why I mentioned the whole piece so nothing was lost in summarizing, I mean, they could become great politicians!

[Modeltrainman]

Thanks guys.Well, I'll keep trying then. All those Ideas interviews say to build something that you love, and I happen to love trains.:) 

[Vilhelm22]

Some big, famous steam locomotive of an interesting shape or size, e.g. UP Big Boy (massive) or UP Daylight 4449 (streamlined).  I think basically anything worthy of creator expert, but because it's IDEAS it should be like the best one they've ever made.

The statement from TLC about why they're not going to make it a set is the same every time - they only bother to write something themselves when it is going to become a set.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Vilhelm22

[Toastie]

11 hours ago, JopieK said:

A "LEGO Review Board" composed of professional set designers, product managers, marketing representatives, and other key team members examine each qualified project

Thank you for this summary statement from TLG. It cannot be pointed out too often: "Marketing representatives" and "Product Managers". I give you that: I don't like them. And I give you that: Without them, there would be no TLG. Train AFOLs are in love with trains. Train AFOLs take the effort of - as you said - counter the challenges a train - virtually any train - poses. And this is not the center of TLG. It is an add-on: Being in love. TLG has to generate revenue - and even surplus to pay for example for the - as far as I am concerned - total waste of resources, the build of the Chiron 1:1 model represents. We are paying for this kind of … nonsense … and somebody at TLG has to generate that surplus.

Whatever.

Much, much more important:

6 hours ago, Holodoc said:

Finally we are AFOLs: If TLC doesn't produce what we like it's up to ourselves to put something together that satiesfies our needs. How hard can it be to build the tram mentioned above ourselves?

THIS is the thing. This is what it is about. And then: Sharing ideas, instructions, tips and tricks either for free (my preference) or at a reasonable price (I am OK with that).

This is the core of the matter: Sharing.

All the best,
Thorsten    

[fred67]

7 hours ago, Holodoc said:

One of the problems in my opinion is, that the purpose of the ideas' website is to get new people to build with LEGO.

Think about a person who is not familiar with LEGO. Why should he/she support an idea about a LEGO train? In his/her eyes TLC produces this trains: The mentioned passenger and cargo train one every second year.
If this person would be interested in trains he/she would have bought one of those.

Ideas is NOT for us AFOLs to have super-duper sets the company never would produce otherwise. Although sadly enough a lot of us AFOLs think this way.

Don't get me wrong: I love LEGO trains and I have a huge amount of trains from the last years. Still I am satisfied what LEGO released the last years that was 'off-track' to the normal city sets:
Horizon Express 2013
MAERSK Train 2011
Emerals Night 2009

And, yes, the next Creator Expert train is overdue!

Finally we are AFOLs: If TLC doesn't produce what we like it's up to ourselves to put something together that satiesfies our needs. How hard can it be to build the tram mentioned above ourselves?

Okay, that went slightly off topic, but I had to write it.

 

One last point: The official statement from TLC about not producing the tram was really, really poor. It didn't explain anything.

I don't know what leads you to your first conclusion above.  When it was Cuoso (sp?) the standards for getting a set made was much smaller, the community was a lot smaller, it wasn't a lot of non-LEGO enthusiasts voting for those sets.  The reason the standards became higher was because it became very popular, and very easy to hit the original mark (wasn't it only 1000?).  I actually happen to think some sets might even have been rejected BECAUSE so many votes came from new, single vote users who aren't LEGO enthusiasts to begin with.  So while it may be a factor that they try to expose LEGO to people who hadn't considered it before, I don't think that it's the "purpose" of the Ideas.  I think we should take it at face value that the purpose of Ideas is to expose a lot of great MOCs that, if they have enough appeal, can possibly be made for everyone to enjoy.

As far as your point about AFOLs - yes, we should just be able to be inspired by what we see and build it ourselves.  But that ignores a whole lot of important problems that arise from that point of view.

1) Most of us don't have vaults full of money.  Consider the retail price of any of the trains you mentioned versus the cost to bricklink them.  Buying the parts separately is way more expensive.

2) MOC builders often use parts that are uncommon, sometimes a lot of them (or uncommon colors)  TLG can take a part that has appeared once or twice in small numbers over the last couple of years, and make millions of them.

3) Depending on the MOC, it may not be nearly as simple as looking at the outside to figure out how it was built.  There are often some incredibly complex things going on underneath the hood.  I just build the Downtown Diner, and was shaking my head at some of the techniques they used to create it - I would never have been able to figure it out by looking at it.

Finally, some of us love LEGO but are just not as creative as others.

On your last point: I completely agree.  All you have to know is, especially if no license was concerned, that the only motivating factor is money - one way (it would cost too much to switch parts production) or another (they don't think enough people will buy it to be worthwhile).  Things like "illegal" techniques are not really problems - they find ways around things like that; I don't think any of the significant Ideas sets didn't have a lot of changes by the LEGO designers.

 

[Holodoc]

13 hours ago, fred67 said:

I don't know what leads you to your first conclusion above.  When it was Cuoso (sp?) the standards for getting a set made was much smaller, the community was a lot smaller, it wasn't a lot of non-LEGO enthusiasts voting for those sets.  The reason the standards became higher was because it became very popular, and very easy to hit the original mark (wasn't it only 1000?).

I am not sure what the primary intention for Cuusoo was, but when we held a little conversation with officials at TLC on one of our events in Billund, they told us that bringing new people to LEGO was at least one of the reasons to do ideas.

And for your comments on MOCs: You don't have to build everything exact the way your example looks like. With one exception to the rule: Technic MOCs! Here I agree with you: Sometimes its almost impossible to figure out how a MOC was made. For all(most all) other MOCs counts: Be creative! Many roads lead to Rome! A lot of us (inclusive me) stick far too much to building instructions!

[zephyr1934]

On 9/11/2018 at 5:47 PM, Modeltrainman said:

LEGO Ideas has been around 10 years now. However, no train has ever made it, licensed, or otherwise. What would the ideal train set be for Ideas? Locomotive, diesel, steam? Individual cars?  Full train?

Well, there were the "My own creation" passenger cars by James Mathis. I think they were the second and third fan created sets that lego produced, but it has been 16 years now.

 

 

[Modeltrainman]

36 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

Well, there were the "My own creation" passenger cars by James Mathis. I think they were the second and third fan created sets that lego produced, but it has been 16 years now.

 

 

That's what I was thinking of. I've been kicking around the idea of building a set like that, but don't want to step on anybody's toes so to speak. I'd love any color suggestions, etc.

[zephyr1934]

If you are building the train for yourself, pick your favorite road and MOD James's design to your heart's content (I've made versions for at least 5 different railroads). I doubt anyone would feel upset if you copied for your own use. Just don't disclose any reverse engineered secrets (which is not a problem for sets) and if you are borrowing heavily from another AFOL probably do not sell anything without discussing it with the other builder.

If you are building a set for ideas, don't bother. Lego will not like a country specific train. For ideas probably the only two hopes would be (1) a train tied to a popular kid-friendly TV show or movie (though there are not many options now that the Hogwarts is back out and the holiday train released in the last few years... maybe Polar Express, but there are many great MOCs that are already out there and if it were to happen it probably would have already). Or (2) a much better take on a CITY train for the global market that would likely be rejected in ideas but could potentially have impact on the next generation of CITY trains.

[dtomsen]

And in addition to what zephyr1934 wrote, don’t submit models to LEGO Ideas borrowing heavily from other people’s designs. At least not without contacting them first 

Edited September 17, 2018 by dtomsen

[BurkusCircus]

I think that Matthes’s TEE could be a very strong candidate.