henrysunset Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, kbalage said: There are 3 types of motors: Simple motors - only power control, no interactive functions - "21980 - Motor, Med. " Tacho motors - speed / power control and relative position reporting, that means it can tell you where it is compared to the relative zero which is by default the position where it was turned on - bb0893c01 / "26913 - Motor, Boost Interactive" and the internal motors of the Move hub (Boost) Smart motors - speed / power control and absolute position reporting, the motor has a mechanical zero position that can be used e.g. for return to center steering simulation - "bb0959c01 / 22169 - Motor, L. Control", "bb0960c01 / 22172 - Motor, XL. Control", "54675 - Motor, Large Angular (Spike)" and also the 54696 Spike Prime medium motor. The Spike Prime motors have markings with the zero position, the Technic L & XL motors don't have the zero marked. This is exactly what I needed... Thank you so much! Is the "Tacho" vs. "Smart" terminology widely used? I'd like to use the easiest-to-understand terminology possible. 2 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said: You missed the Spike medium motor. :) Thanks for letting me now... I missed it because it's missing on BrickLink! https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?pg=1&catString=121&sortBy=Y&sortAsc=A&catType=P&v=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbalage Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, henrysunset said: Is the "Tacho" vs. "Smart" terminology widely used? I'd like to use the easiest-to-understand terminology possible. I think it is more like an internal terminology used by the Powered Up hardware team. The Powered Up code also refers to the interactive motors as TachoMotor, but there's no specific block yet for the Smart motors so we'll have to wait and see what will be the reference for those. Unfortunately there's no fixed terminology for the Powered Up system in general, every team at TLG has their own internal naming convention. On top of that the "official" naming on lego.com is not very helpful either, e.g. the AAA PU hub is simply the "hub", or the new L motor is the "Technic Large Motor". Sticking to Tacho and Smart as a category can set a good example so I suggest to follow that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henrysunset Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, kbalage said: I think it is more like an internal terminology used by the Powered Up hardware team. The Powered Up code also refers to the interactive motors as TachoMotor, but there's no specific block yet for the Smart motors so we'll have to wait and see what will be the reference for those. Unfortunately there's no fixed terminology for the Powered Up system in general, every team at TLG has their own internal naming convention. On top of that the "official" naming on lego.com is not very helpful either, e.g. the AAA PU hub is simply the "hub", or the new L motor is the "Technic Large Motor". Sticking to Tacho and Smart as a category can set a good example so I suggest to follow that Makes sense to me. I do wish there was a less confusing term than "TachoMotor" but nonetheless consistency is important! Let's discuss on the LAN forum if there is a way for us to influence the part naming on BrickLink, to make it better! (Now that TLG owns BrickLink.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henrysunset Posted June 9, 2020 This was all very helpful. Here's the text that I settled on for each of these labels... Motor, Med. Simple (WeDo) 21980 Motor, Med. Tacho (Boost) bb0893c01 / 26913 Motor, Lg. Smart bb0959c01 / 22169 Motor, XL. Smart bb0960c01 / 22172 Motor, Med. Smart (Spike) 54696 Motor, Lg. Smart (Spike) 54675 Motor, Train bb0896c01 / 28740 As always, if I can update it to be even more clear, I would love to make it better. ex: should I add "Simple" to the Train motor to explain that it doesn't have any rotational information? Should I add "(Control+)" to the two other Smart motors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Hobbles Posted June 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, henrysunset said: ex: should I add "Simple" to the Train motor to explain that it doesn't have any rotational information? Should I add "(Control+)" to the two other Smart motors? I think it'd be best to leave off the Control+ branding. While originally the motors originated in Technic Control+ sets (the 4x4 and Liebherr), their usage is expanding out into other brands (ie. the upcoming Creator Expert Crocodile Locomotive). Simiarly for the SPIKE Prime motors - they are included in the new Mindstorms set, and the Boost motor is now used for the Haunted House. They're all just generic "Powered Up" components. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetro Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr Hobbles said: Group 3's primary difference over group zero is that they provide an "absolute zero" This is not entirely accurate. Group 3b does have absolute zero. Both group 2 and 3a use the initial position of the motor when the connection to the app is established as zero but don't have absolute zero. As such, I would combine group 2 and 3a as the only difference between these two is the housing (studded in 2, only technic holes in 3a) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_spock Posted June 9, 2020 On 6/8/2020 at 5:00 AM, Lok24 said: @dr_spock Hi, just found that image http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=6640742 Looks interesting, what type of connectors are those white parts? 3D printed PU to PF adapter. It's wired to ID as PU train motor to get speed control with the PU remote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Hobbles Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Jetro said: This is not entirely accurate. Group 3b does have absolute zero. Both group 2 and 3a use the initial position of the motor when the connection to the app is established as zero but don't have absolute zero. As such, I would combine group 2 and 3a as the only difference between these two is the housing (studded in 2, only technic holes in 3a) @Jetro Actually that's not true. Group 3a does have absolute zero - the LPF2 mode exists and responds appropriately, always returning to the same position. Its just not marked with a black spot on the casing - I've taken to marking mine with a marker! :) My library, "node-poweredup" fully supports it. See mode 3, APOS: lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, type 002f (TECHNIC_XLARGE_LINEAR_MOTOR) +3s lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, hardware version 0.0.00.1000, software version 0.0.00.1000 +0ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, total modes 6, input modes 011110, output modes 011111 +45ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode combinations [1110] +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, name POWER +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, RAW min -100, max 100 +46ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, PCT min -100, max 100 +28ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, SI min -100, max 100 +32ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, SI symbol PCT +28ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 1.0 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, name SPEED +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, RAW min -100, max 100 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, PCT min -100, max 100 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, SI min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, SI symbol PCT +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 4.0 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, name POS +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, RAW min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, PCT min -100, max 100 +45ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, SI min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, SI symbol DEG +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, Value 1 x 32bit, Decimal format 4.0 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, name APOS +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, RAW min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, PCT min -100, max 100 +44ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, SI min -360, max 360 +16ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, SI symbol DEG +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, Value 1 x 16bit, Decimal format 3.0 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, name LOAD +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, RAW min 0, max 127 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, PCT min 0, max 100 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, SI min 0, max 127 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, SI symbol PCT +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 1.0 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, name CALIB +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, RAW min 0, max 512 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, PCT min 0, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, SI min 0, max 512 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, SI symbol RAW +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, Value 3 x 16bit, Decimal format 3.0 +30ms Compare with the Technic Large Angular Motor (SPIKE Prime). Exactly the same capabilities. Notice even the hardware and software versions are the same: lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, type 0031 (TECHNIC_LARGE_ANGULAR_MOTOR) +4s lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, hardware version 0.0.00.1000, software version 0.0.00.1000 +0ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, total modes 6, input modes 011110, output modes 011111 +32ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode combinations [1110] +28ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, name POWER +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, RAW min -100, max 100 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, PCT min -100, max 100 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, SI min -100, max 100 +44ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, SI symbol PCT +32ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 1.0 +28ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, name SPEED +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, RAW min -100, max 100 +45ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, PCT min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, SI min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, SI symbol PCT +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 4.0 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, name POS +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, RAW min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, PCT min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, SI min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, SI symbol DEG +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, Value 1 x 32bit, Decimal format 4.0 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, name APOS +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, RAW min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, PCT min -100, max 100 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, SI min -360, max 360 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, SI symbol DEG +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 3, Value 1 x 16bit, Decimal format 3.0 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, name LOAD +32ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, RAW min 0, max 127 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, PCT min 0, max 100 +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, SI min 0, max 127 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, SI symbol PCT +31ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 4, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 1.0 +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, name CALIB +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, RAW min 0, max 512 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, PCT min 0, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, SI min 0, max 512 +44ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, SI symbol RAW +16ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 5, Value 3 x 16bit, Decimal format 3.0 +31ms For final reference, this is the (much less capable) Medium Linear Motor (Boost). No APOS: lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, type 0026 (MEDIUM_LINEAR_MOTOR) +4s lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, hardware version 1.0.00.0000, software version 1.0.00.0000 +1ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, total modes 3, input modes 110, output modes 111 +46ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode combinations [110] +29ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, name POWER +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, RAW min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, PCT min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, SI min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, SI symbol PCT +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 0, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 1.0 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, name SPEED +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, RAW min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, PCT min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, SI min -100, max 100 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, SI symbol PCT +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 1, Value 1 x 8bit, Decimal format 4.0 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, name POS +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, RAW min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, PCT min -100, max 100 +15ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, SI min -360, max 360 +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, SI symbol DEG +30ms lpf2hubmodeinfo Port 03, mode 2, Value 1 x 32bit, Decimal format 4.0 +60ms Edited June 9, 2020 by Mr Hobbles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Hobbles Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) Here's a video of absolute zero on the Technic linear motors: Edited June 10, 2020 by Mr Hobbles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henrysunset Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Jetro said: This is not entirely accurate. Group 3b does have absolute zero. Both group 2 and 3a use the initial position of the motor when the connection to the app is established as zero but don't have absolute zero. As such, I would combine group 2 and 3a as the only difference between these two is the housing (studded in 2, only technic holes in 3a) Quote Mr Hobbles: Actually that's not true. Group 3a does have absolute zero - the LPF2 mode exists and responds appropriately, always returning to the same position. Its just not marked with a black spot on the casing - I've taken to marking mine with a marker! :) My library, "node-poweredup" fully supports it. See mode 3, APOS: Wow, this got complicated and technical quickly! I love how quickly we got into the idiosyncratic differences at the Technical I/O layer. This is great! What's not so great is how confusing this all is for end-users! It sounds like there might be a discrepancy between the featureset exposed from within the LEGO sanctioned apps, and the additional functionality embedded in the physical motors. I'm inclined to simply describe them as either "Simple" or "Smart" with the additional "Angular" description only on those two motors where the capability is exposed through the LEGO platform, namely the two SPIKE PRIME motors. Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil B Posted June 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, henrysunset said: Wow, this got complicated and technical quickly! I love how quickly we got into the idiosyncratic differences at the Technical I/O layer. This is great! What's not so great is how confusing this all is for end-users! It sounds like there might be a discrepancy between the featureset exposed from within the LEGO sanctioned apps, and the additional functionality embedded in the physical motors. I'm inclined to simply describe them as either "Simple" or "Smart" with the additional "Angular" description only on those two motors where the capability is exposed through the LEGO platform, namely the two SPIKE PRIME motors. Thoughts? Tom, What about the "set" names for these motors (e.g. 88013) .. will you include those on your labels as well? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Hobbles Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, henrysunset said: I'm inclined to simply describe them as either "Simple" or "Smart" with the additional "Angular" description only on those two motors where the capability is exposed through the LEGO platform, namely the two SPIKE PRIME motors. Thoughts? I don't think that's a bad approach, however I think two things you'll run into are a) The differences in capabilities between apps, and b) Lego updating the apps with new functionality. Currently the SPIKE Prime app supports the SPIKE Prime motors, but the Powered Up app doesn't. Similarly, when the Control+ motors came out, the Control+ app supported them, but the Powered Up didn't. However the Control+ motors worked anyway in "simple" powered mode, but an update that came later added support for other modes (rotation, but not absolute). The SPIKE Prime motors still don't work in the Powered Up app though. To add further insult to injury, the Control+ motors now work in the Powered Up app for most hub types, but not the Boost Move Hub. It's recognised, but can't be controlled - this is likely a firmware bug in the Boost Move Hub that has yet to be fixed. Incidentally, one further example is that Boost Color Sensor had a secret Infra-Red transmitter mode that could be used to control Power Functions models. We knew about it for months beforehand and enabled it through third party apps and libraries, but Lego only added support for it in the latest Powered Up update that came out about 6 weeks ago. My point being, I don't think basing it on capabilities exposed through "the LEGO platform" is a bad approach, but you'll find there isn't one platform to rule them all. And you may be updating your documentation as to the capabilities every time Lego updates one of their apps. I wouldn't be surprised to see Control+ absolute position start working inside the official Powered Up app once Lego adds SPIKE Prime motor support, as they are internally the same thing. @henrysunset One more thing - here is an example of absolute zero working on the Technic linear motors (Control+) on an official Lego platform - the SPIKE Prime app. Admittedly it only works in the (official) Python coding mode and not in the GUI (yet), but it does work. Edited June 10, 2020 by Mr Hobbles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henrysunset Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) @Mr Hobbles, @Jetro, & @kbalage - Thank you, this feedback is super helpful. I decided that Mr Hobbles is ultimately right - If the motor is capable of "smart" (angular) functionality, I should credit it accordingly. The software will continue to improve, and 3rd party app platforms are inevitably going to become more mature. This leaves just one motor that can track relative rotation, but not precise angle. I decided to describe 26913 / Boost Motor as "Interactive" but not "Smart". Notes: Also added labels for the various Battery Packs & Hubs, and all of the sensors so far... I will probably add a fourth label strip with just three categorical labels: 1. Hub / Battery Boxes, 2. Motors, 3. Sensors. (This makes sense if you sort into categories instead of by element) It looks like I am missing two of the Spike Prime sensors (Force & Distance). Does anyone know their Part ID's? Feedback Welcome! If this collection is complete, accurate, and useful, I'll release it as soon as I can. Sincerely, —Tom P.S. Before anyone asks, I am not planning to go back and support the older Power Functions or EV3 standards. Edited June 10, 2020 by henrysunset Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tcm0 Posted June 10, 2020 You are missing the SPIKE distance and the SPIKE force sensor. In addition to that I don't think that it's useful to call the motors smart or interactive. It doesn't tell you what they actually do or don't do. Oh and there will be a new battery box in this year's technic line with 2 ports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok24 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, henrysunset said: @Mr Hobbles, @Jetro, & @kbalage - Thank you, this feedback is super helpful. I decided that Mr Hobbles is ultimately right - If the motor is capable of "smart" (angular) functionality, I should credit it accordingly. The software will continue to improve, and 3rd party app platforms are inevitably going to become more mature. Hi, the info that thes are powered up components is missing almost completely, and the naming according to sets or themes is not useful in my opinion. Example: there ist no "Boost Hub", it's the "move Hub". There is no "Spike Hub" (as it is used in mindstorms as well), its called "Technic™ Large Hub" Same with motors. The "simple motor" is used with Lego "System" too, and not only WeDo. Your naming according to sets and themes confuses me. In this post you have very precise names 10 hours ago, henrysunset said: ex: should I add "Simple" to the Train motor to explain that it doesn't have any rotational information? Should I add "(Control+)" to the two other Smart motors? This idea is the most confusing of all. "Control+" is only an App that adds addtional functions to models, more than just moving. There is no "Control+ Hardware" According to Hubs: I would use WeDo Hub (Smart) Hub Technic Hub Move Hub Large Hub As you see: all these names are much "simpler" than yours. Edited June 10, 2020 by Lok24 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok24 Posted June 10, 2020 9 hours ago, dr_spock said: 3D printed PU to PF adapter. It's wired to ID as PU train motor to get speed control with the PU remote. Thanks a lot, that looks very good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbalage Posted June 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, Lok24 said: Your naming according to sets and themes confuses me. The "official" naming is the most confusing in the first place. We know what a "hub" or a "move hub" is and which set it is related to, but an average LEGO customer won't have any idea. I see two options - try to relate the hub/motor to a platform where it is possible (Technic, Spike Prime, Boost), or stick to the original naming. If we choose the original one then the "Large hub" should be "Technic Large Hub", or even "Technic Large Hub for Spike Prime" as it is called on the Education webpage. About the motor categories, I'm not sure what was the problem with the simple / tacho / smart differentiation, that at least tries to stick to some official naming convention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok24 Posted June 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, kbalage said: The "official" naming is the most confusing in the first place. We know what a "hub" or a "move hub" is and which set it is related to, but an average LEGO customer won't have any idea. Have a look at the shop: the part ist called "move hub" and in the description of the robotic set it's called "move hub" as well. One real problem is that LEGO use the generic "smarthub" and the same as the name for a specific hub (Hub No.4). 18 minutes ago, kbalage said: I see two options - try to relate the hub/motor to a platform where it is possible (Technic, Spike Prime, Boost), or stick to the original naming. If we choose the original one then the "Large hub" should be "Technic Large Hub", or even "Technic Large Hub for Spike Prime" as it is called on the Education webpage. According to the technical specifications that are available as a PDF the "Hardware name" is "Technic™ Large Hub", as I wrote above. Please note that the PU protocoll has markers for "technic, "System", "weDo",and so on 21 minutes ago, kbalage said: About the motor categories, I'm not sure what was the problem with the simple / tacho / smart differentiation, that at least tries to stick to some official naming convention. Yes, which was clearly shown in the post of Mr Hobbles. So why trying to find newe complex names? (of course there are very "official" names, according to the Design-ID, but they aren't really useful) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tcm0 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, kbalage said: The "official" naming is the most confusing in the first place. We know what a "hub" or a "move hub" is and which set it is related to, but an average LEGO customer won't have any idea. I see two options - try to relate the hub/motor to a platform where it is possible (Technic, Spike Prime, Boost), or stick to the original naming. If we choose the original one then the "Large hub" should be "Technic Large Hub", or even "Technic Large Hub for Spike Prime" as it is called on the Education webpage. But you can't base the naming on the platform because that isn't consistent and it will be even more mixed up in the future. The simple linar motor is in wedo and powered up, the boost linear motor is for boost and powered up and the spike prime motors appear in the upcomming mindstorms set and will be included in a technic model this summer wave. I think that calling the technic large hub "technic large hub for spike prime" has the same problem because it will be included in the upcomming mindstorms set. We don't know which set might contain which motor in the future. Personally I would call them something like "motor with rotation sensor", "motor with position sensor" and/or "Motor with angle sensor". One might add something like "with zero position marker" My personal take would be something like this. Maybe add a "Powered Up:" in front: Simple medium motor (for the batmobile motor) Simple train motor Medium motor with rotation sensor (for the boost motor) Large motor with position sensor (for Control+ L motor) XL motor with position sensor (for Control+ XL Motor) Medium motor with position sensor and zero position marker (for SPIKE medium motor. I'm not sure if it's a good idea that the name is so similar to the other medium motors. Maybe call it large instead but then it would conflict with the official lego names) Large motor with position sensor and zero position marker (for SPIKE large motor) For the hubs I would stick with the normal names. Maybe add system or technic for the main type of brick connections. The idea of adding the number of ports is good: 2 port WeDo 2.0 system hub (I think that calling this WeDo 2.0 is okay because there won't be another set that uses the hub as it's not updateable) 2 port Move hub (for the boost hub. Move system hub sounds stupid. The name move kinda includes the motors) 2 port System hub 4 port Technic Hub 6 port Large Technic Hub (SPIKE and Mindstorms hub) Edited June 10, 2020 by Tcm0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbalage Posted June 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Lok24 said: Have a look at the shop: the part ist called "move hub" and in the description of the robotic set it's called "move hub" as well. I know what it's called in the shop, I was referring to that :) The problem with the whole PU naming is the lack of categorization. Every Power Functions component had "Power Functions" in the name. Now we have the AAA Powered Up hub being called "hub". A customer could ask: "hub" for what, which application, which motors, which what? Can I use it with Boost, Powered Up, Control+, Spike Prime? What can I connect to it? The whole ecosystem is super confusing now for an outsider, and TLG does not help either with adding the PU Technic L / XL motors to the Powered Up and the Power Functions categories as well in the shop. 10 minutes ago, Lok24 said: According to the technical specifications that are available as a PDF the "Hardware name" is "Technic™ Large Hub", as I wrote above. If it is called Technic Large Hub then we should use this name, there's no point to remove "Technic". 2 minutes ago, Tcm0 said: I think that calling the technic large hub "technic large hub for spike prime" has the same problem because it will be included in the upcomming mindstorms set. We don't know which set might contain which motor in the future. Personally I would call them something like "motor with rotation sensor", "motor with position sensor" and/or "Motor with angle sensor". One might add something like "with zero position marker" I'm sure the Mindstorms variant will have a different color and potentially a different connected app so it will have a different official name as well. I don't think we should come up with brand new names for the motors, that'd be even more confusing for everyone. The product family shall be either "Powered Up" or "PF2", that can be added to each of them and then just use the name that is used in the LEGO shop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok24 Posted June 10, 2020 Yes, a good approach, but I would prefer to drop the properties to make names short and simple. And same as in specs and shop. Simple medium motor Simple train motor Medium linear motor Techic Large motor Technic XL motor Technic Medium Angular Motor Technic Large Angular Motor 2 port WeDo 2.0 hub 2 port Move hub 2 port System hub 4 port Technic Hub 6 port Technic Large Hub (as you see: "x port" is not needed ti identify, but make it perhaps easier to identify) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tcm0 Posted June 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Lok24 said: Yes, a good approach, but I would prefer to drop the properties to make names short and simple. And same as in specs and shop. Simple medium motor Simple train motor Medium linear motor Techic Large motor Technic XL motor Technic Medium Angular Motor Technic Large Angular Motor I think that the names are too similar and don't reflect the actual differences. What is the difference between a simple medium motor and a medium linear motor? In addition to that the first one is called simple, medium linear motor and the other one only medium linear motor in the lego shop. Both are called linear motor. 17 minutes ago, kbalage said: I'm sure the Mindstorms variant will have a different color and potentially a different connected app so it will have a different official name as well. I don't think we should come up with brand new names for the motors, that'd be even more confusing for everyone. The product family shall be either "Powered Up" or "PF2", that can be added to each of them and then just use the name that is used in the LEGO shop. I'm sure that both hubs will contain the same hardware and bricklink sorts pieces with the same form but different colors under different colors, not different names. Maybe lego will sell the yellow one only through lego education and the teal one only through the online shop. I don't see any reason for a different name since it's the same part - maybe add the color to the name. Regarding the motors see the above. You can't tell me that anyone understands the difference between the medium linear motor and the simple medium linear motor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok24 Posted June 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, kbalage said: Can I use it with Boost, Powered Up, Control+, Spike Prime? What can I connect to it? The whole ecosystem is super confusing now for an outsider, and TLG does not help either with adding the PU Technic L / XL motors to the Powered Up and the Power Functions categories as well in the shop. True, but that's a problem we won't solve here. Here ist the description of the Technic XL motor from the shop: US Includes a connecting wire and connector for LEGO® Powered Up Hubs (required, sold separately). LEGO® Powered Up Technic™ Hub required (sold separately). (second is definitely wrong) Germany Erfordert einen Powered Up Hub (separat erhältlich). my translation: "requies a/one/some Powered Up Hub (sold separately) But in summary the connections are explained (partly) in the desciption. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbalage Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Tcm0 said: Regarding the motors see the above. You can't tell me that anyone understands the difference between the medium linear motor and the simple medium linear motor. Sure, but if you start to give them completely new names then it only makes the whole situation even more confusing for everyone. We need to either stick to the original (shop) name or append something to it to make it easier to differentiate, and that's where the categories can help. It can be either Simple/Tacho/Smart, or Power only/Relative positioning/Absolute positioning, whatever fits the best. In any situation you'll have a hard time explaining the exact differences with only a few words so some additional information is needed anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lok24 Posted June 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, kbalage said: Sure, but if you start to give them completely new names then it only makes the whole situation even more confusing for everyone. I agree 7 minutes ago, kbalage said: It can be either Simple/Tacho/Smart, or Power only/Relative positioning/Absolute positioning, whatever fits the best There is only one (the oldest) without a tacho. The "simple" one. (and of course train...) All others send angles to the hub. 9 minutes ago, kbalage said: We need to either stick to the original (shop) name or append something to it to make it easier to differentiate, and that's where the categories can help. It can be either Simple/Tacho/Smart, or Power only/Relative positioning/Absolute positioning, Then, appending something, you had to reflect that the hubs are very different too, according FW, batteries, usable stand alone and so on. What is the purpose of such a list, and who should use the names? Who is the "anyone" mentioned above? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
