Lack of original themes

[sander1992]

I did not read the whole topic (sorry). But I think that Lego does not produce Castle or Pirates sets, because it does not sell.

Looking back at the 2015 wave of Pirates (III) and the Castle wave of 2013, these sets did not sell. Galaxy Squad did not sell as well.

 

I think that TLG has developed a method to introduce themes in a strict way.

From 1999 all the series and themes have to sides/teams/fronts: a good side and a bad side. Look at the older series in Castle, Pirates or Space.

There was always a triangle and in 1992 with Castle there were 5 teams present in the sets.  The setup of the Castle wave of 2013 was very similar to Kingdoms back in 2010.

The Pirates wave of 2015 was similar to the 2008 series and those series had a lot of elements of the old pirates series of the 90’s.

Galaxy Squad did not sell, because Space in general does not sell.

Look at the older sets on Bricklink, Classic Space, Blacktron and a bit of Futuron and Space Police are worth something.

All the other sets (with some examples here and there) are easy to buy for a decent price.

 

I would love to see the next adventure of Johnny Thunder and his gang, I would love to see the next mission of Alpha Team.

Give me another great Pirates or Castle series, I would buy it.

But something tells me that it will not appear as long as the Licensed themes sell.

[x105Black]

1 hour ago, sander1992 said:

Looking back at the 2015 wave of Pirates (III) and the Castle wave of 2013, these sets did not sell. Galaxy Squad did not sell as well.

Looking back at those themes, they were rather unimpressive iterations of the themes.

1 hour ago, sander1992 said:

Give me another great Pirates or Castle series, I would buy it.

Me, too.  "Great" is the key word of that sentence.

[Digger of Bricks]

6 hours ago, MAB said:

Sure, but one of the nice things about Creator sets is that they are very plain and generic compared to the licensed or in-house themes. I'm not really sure why they'd need to bring things under one umbrella-like name if they are not that similar. Why use more detailed figures when they are representative of the named themes.

I wouldn't call Creator generic necessarily, just that they lean more on good old fashioned bricks as opposed to specialized parts, which I think is better. As for the need for an umbrella theme, it's only that some kids (not just AFOLs) are missing out on more archetypical genres, since not everyone wishes for Ninjago, City, and licensed lines. So, why not use a preexisting outlet for some of those genres that Lego have deemed not viable enough for an entire theme, just to tap into those smaller yet significant markets?

6 hours ago, MAB said:

To people with the old sets, sure it was a continuation / reboot / re-imagining / whatever. But that was a decade before and probably wouldn't have happened for families with kids of popular lego-age. The kids wouldn't have been born and the parents too old for it. Why hark back to an old theme when they can start afresh with new branding, new characters, etc? They'd have to either re-use Johnny Thunder (was he out of favour at the time?, with the need to introduce the all new Jake Raines who is essentially the same), or explain his absence. Starting again removes that.

It wouldn't necessarily be a "harkening back" sort of theme, as it still would be the adventures of Jake Raines and friends, just with some sort of name that suggests adventures beyond Egypt. Heck, if I were to release an Adventures-esque theme, I'd model it after the approach 2007's Agents had took, with each set within the first wave depicting an adventure in a different part of the globe. So, if the theme couldn't run beyond a single year, a single wave would feel much more broad and complete.

3 hours ago, danth said:

Many Creator sets have no minifigs but many do. The Space Shuttle and Island Adventures are two recent examples. And all the houses/modulars. Plain or generic figs are perfect for any kind of themed sets we are suggesting here. For instance a generic Knight or Spaceman.

Indeed. Creator's simplicity is just perfect for sets that harken back to the Classics. 

[Aanchir]

10 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

As opposed to loosely interconnected Space themes that all sit under this vague umbrella, why not do a line like City, perhaps named something along the lines of LEGO Galaxy? Why did 2011's Pharaoh's Quest have to be named as such, where instead it could have broadened its horizons just by simply taking the name of its spiritual predecessor?

If I had to guess, more situationally specific names may simply test better with the sort of kids who like action-adventure themes. After all, they do sound more like the types of names you'd associate with other action-adventure TV, book, movie, and video game series. More specific names can also be pretty search engine friendly. I wouldn't be surprised if that tends to boost sales.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Aanchir

[BrickJagger]

4 hours ago, sander1992 said:

Give me another great Pirates or Castle series, I would buy it.

Any Castle series works for me.

[Digger of Bricks]

29 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

More specific names can also be pretty search engine friendly. I wouldn't be surprised if that tends to boost sales.

Well, this does sound like a pretty good point you bring up here. 

[KotZ]

10 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, this does sound like a pretty good point you bring up here. 

I mean, what sounds better, as in more memorable and easier to narrow down? Exo-Force, or LEGO Mecha theme? Orient Expedition or LEGO Asian Jungle theme? Type in the generic ones and you'll get lots of MOCs that LEGO could never sell.

[Digger of Bricks]

9 minutes ago, KotZ said:

I mean, what sounds better, as in more memorable and easier to narrow down? Exo-Force, or LEGO Mecha theme? Orient Expedition or LEGO Asian Jungle theme? Type in the generic ones and you'll get lots of MOCs that LEGO could never sell.

But, considering, Lego didn't end up naming the City theme a more specific name such as LEGO Bricksburg, LEGO Clutchopolis, or something like that. Same goes for the last iterations of Classic Castle and Pirates.

[KotZ]

9 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

But, considering, Lego didn't end up naming the City theme a more specific name such as LEGO Bricksburg, LEGO Clutchopolis, or something like that. Same goes for the last iterations of Classic Castle and Pirates.

I think for the action/adventure themes it works better.

[Digger of Bricks]

11 minutes ago, KotZ said:

I think for the action/adventure themes it works better.

If that may indeed be the case nowadays, okay then; but still, shouldn't an action/adventure theme with a broadly encompassing range chose a name that doesn't limit its horizons? Is there a name that could serve that purpose yet be uniquely signature at the same time?

[MAB]

14 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

If that may indeed be the case nowadays, okay then; but still, shouldn't an action/adventure theme with a broadly encompassing range chose a name that doesn't limit its horizons? Is there a name that could serve that purpose yet be uniquely signature at the same time?

I guess they do limit their horizons somewhat by calling a theme (for example) Pharoah's Quest as it limits it to deal with something to do with Ancient Egypt. But it doesn't matter if it is a one year and done type theme, since it was limited to that subject anyway before moving on to a dramatically different next one.

Although, to be honest, I'm not normally that bothered by the name and branding. I would have been perfectly happy if they had put all of their one year themes under a single banner, with the theme name as a sub-theme. All it really does (for me) is mean they get put in the same parent directory at bricklink, brickset, etc.

 

[x105Black]

16 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I wouldn't call Creator generic necessarily, just that they lean more on good old fashioned bricks as opposed to specialized parts, which I think is better.

I don't, honestly.

Also, these theorized Action and Adventure themes could all be correlated even if there was no unifying theme.  Just have a character or two repeat in various single year themes, and they will be connected by that.

[Lyichir]

57 minutes ago, MAB said:

I guess they do limit their horizons somewhat by calling a theme (for example) Pharoah's Quest as it limits it to deal with something to do with Ancient Egypt. But it doesn't matter if it is a one year and done type theme, since it was limited to that subject anyway before moving on to a dramatically different next one.

Although, to be honest, I'm not normally that bothered by the name and branding. I would have been perfectly happy if they had put all of their one year themes under a single banner, with the theme name as a sub-theme. All it really does (for me) is mean they get put in the same parent directory at bricklink, brickset, etc.

 

Honestly, I don't even think "Pharaoh's Quest" was that limiting in the grand scheme of things anyway. Yes, the name is limited to Ancient Egypt, at least for that year's sets. But if it had been wildly successful and Lego had wanted to extend it, they could easily have taken the "sequel" approach by giving the next year's theme a different name while maintaining the same character names and general tone. An approach like this would have both pros and cons, but assuming the preceding theme had been successful enough, it could easily be as effective or moreso than a theme started from scratch. And it wouldn't be unprecedented even for this specific genre—after all, Adventurers' final year went by the substantially different title of "Orient Expedition". And the Indiana Jones franchise started with the hyper-specific title of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" before opting for a more generic, modifiable title structure for subsequent movies.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Lyichir

[x105Black]

11 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Honestly, I don't even think "Pharaoh's Quest" was that limiting in the grand scheme of things anyway. Yes, the name is limited to Ancient Egypt, at least for that year's sets. But if it had been wildly successful and Lego had wanted to extend it, they could easily have taken the "sequel" approach by giving the next year's theme a different name while maintaining the same character names and general tone.

That's what I was talking about.  And you could even use the "Quest" part of the name to imply connection without the themes being directly connected.  Maybe "Quest to the Orient" or something similar.  But even that is unnecessary.

[MAB]

20 hours ago, danth said:

Plain or generic figs are perfect for any kind of themed sets we are suggesting here. For instance a generic Knight or Spaceman.

 

 

So would the figures be plain, but identifiable as a knight by placing on a breastplate / armour and helmet? And you could remove that a put on a different helmet and he is now a spaceman?

Or would the figures in space settings be identifiable as spacemen by whatever their torso prints are?

26 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Honestly, I don't even think "Pharaoh's Quest" was that limiting in the grand scheme of things anyway. Yes, the name is limited to Ancient Egypt, at least for that year's sets. But if it had been wildly successful and Lego had wanted to extend it, they could easily have taken the "sequel" approach by giving the next year's theme a different name while maintaining the same character names and general tone. An approach like this would have both pros and cons, but assuming the preceding theme had been successful enough, it could easily be as effective or moreso than a theme started from scratch. And it wouldn't be unprecedented even for this specific genre—after all, Adventurers' final year went by the substantially different title of "Orient Expedition". And the Indiana Jones franchise started with the hyper-specific title of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" before opting for a more generic, modifiable title structure for subsequent movies.

1

Yes, that's true. Although they'd have the problem that if one bombs, then the sets are already designed and manufactured anyway. But then they have that problem anyway if they have no connection, just different character names.

 

Then all that is needed is for them to go back to doing some other in-house themes.

[Digger of Bricks]

6 hours ago, x105Black said:

I don't, honestly.

So, you'd rather want to see a Castle set that leans on specialized wall and turret parts, as opposed to nonspecific bricks? Just because Creator sets look so Juniors-ish doesn't mean that sets not built from specialized parts will look that way as a result, as Creator sets are designed both proportionally and colorfully with that Juniors-esque aesthetic intentionally.

It's my hope that the non-Expert, 3 in 1 Creator line will eventually start giving us sets with an MOC-like quality within a playset scale, still built with nonspecific bricks, but this time with more complex techniques and more muted colors below the US $100 price range.

6 hours ago, x105Black said:

That's what I was talking about.  And you could even use the "Quest" part of the name to imply connection without the themes being directly connected.  Maybe "Quest to the Orient" or something similar. 

Well, that's not a bad idea. So in succession, follow-up sequel themes could be titled along the lines of Mayan Quest, Dino Quest, Empire Quest, Atlantis Quest, Hyperborea Quest...  

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

So, you'd rather want to see a Castle set that leans on specialized wall and turret parts, as opposed to nonspecific bricks? Just because Creator sets look so Juniors-ish doesn't mean that sets not built from specialized parts will look that way as a result, as Creator sets are designed both proportionally and colorfully with that Juniors-esque aesthetic intentionally.

It's my hope that the non-Expert, 3 in 1 Creator line will eventually start giving us sets with an MOC-like quality within a playset scale, still built with nonspecific bricks, but this time with more complex techniques and more muted colors below the US $100 price range.

I don't think it's even fair to say Creator sets look Juniors-ish. What, because most of them have bright colors? So do plenty of adult-oriented sets like the Creator Expert Ferrari or London Bus! And there have been more than a few sets like https://brickset.com/sets/31065-1/Park-Street-Townhouse that primarily stick to earth tones (and have some fairly detailed building techniques to boot).

When I read x105Black's post I interpreted his reluctance as less to do with color or building level and more to new minifigure accessory, headgear, and armor molds, extensive new minifigure prints, molded LEGO creatures instead of brick-built ones, etc. Themes like City and Castle frequently include these traits, whereas Creator 3-in-1 almost never does. The emphasis within the 3-in-1 line is on creative building, and I'm not sure there's any way that things like the Castle theme's molded dragons could fit into that equation. Even a dragon like the ones in LEGO Elves built with molded heads and wings but otherwise with non-specialized bricks arguably conflict with that design philosophy. With Creator as popular as it is I could certainly see LEGO expanding its scope to include more medieval subject matter, but only within the exisiting 3-in-1 design ethos.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Aanchir

[danth]

9 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I don't think it's even fair to say Creator sets look Juniors-ish

Agreed. I definitely don't see it.

[x105Black]

37 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

When I read x105Black's post I interpreted his reluctance as less to do with color or building level and more to new minifigure accessory, headgear, and armor molds, extensive new minifigure prints, molded LEGO creatures instead of brick-built ones, etc. Themes like City and Castle frequently include these traits, whereas Creator 3-in-1 almost never does. The emphasis within the 3-in-1 line is on creative building, and I'm not sure there's any way that things like the Castle theme's molded dragons could fit into that equation. Even a dragon like the ones in LEGO Elves built with molded heads and wings but otherwise with non-specialized bricks arguably conflict with that design philosophy. With Creator as popular as it is I could certainly see LEGO expanding its scope to include more medieval subject matter, but only within the exisiting 3-in-1 design ethos.

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it.  But it is all of those things, including color and complexity.

Still, generic bricks are great but I do want specialized bricks, minifigures, and accessories.  I do want molded animals instead of generic brick-built creatures.  And Creator will never give me that.  So Creator will never fill the void of Castle, Pirate, and Space sets that I want, because it will never offer the variety of pieces and accessories that I want to see in those themes.  That is, unless it is done at the highly sophisticated Expert level.  I would love to see those themes represented in Creator Expert.

[Digger of Bricks]

10 minutes ago, x105Black said:

Still, generic bricks are great but I do want specialized bricks, minifigures, and accessories.  I do want molded animals instead of generic brick-built creatures.  And Creator will never give me that.  So Creator will never fill the void of Castle, Pirate, and Space sets that I want, because it will never offer the variety of pieces and accessories that I want to see in those themes.  That is, unless it is done at the highly sophisticated Expert level.  I would love to see those themes represented in Creator Expert.

Never? Are you really that certain that will be the case throughout the theme's entire lifetime? 

[BrickJagger]

22 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Never? Are you really that certain that will be the case throughout the theme's entire lifetime? 

You know what he meant. At the current moment and at least for the immediate future Creator will not be doing that. If they did, there would be no reason not to put out a traditional Castle theme.

[x105Black]

3 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

You know what he meant. At the current moment and at least for the immediate future Creator will not be doing that. If they did, there would be no reason not to put out a traditional Castle theme.

Exactly.

[danth]

I had to go back to 2016 to find one a Creator set with a molded animal. 

https://shop.lego.com/en-US/Fountain-40221

Personally I kinda like brick build animals. 

And I'd definitely take a large brick build animal or beast over a big Duplo-looking molded one.

[x105Black]

17 minutes ago, danth said:

I had to go back to 2016 to find one a Creator set with a molded animal. 

https://shop.lego.com/en-US/Fountain-40221

Personally I kinda like brick build animals. 

And I'd definitely take a large brick build animal or beast over a big Duplo-looking molded one.

Yeah, that was a nice little set, too.

I do still vastly prefer molded animals.

[MAB]

On 10/03/2018 at 2:15 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Never? Are you really that certain that will be the case throughout the theme's entire lifetime? 

This comment is actually interesting concerning what has happened with modulars. It used to be thought that modulars would never include play features and be primarily display focussed rather than play focussed. Yet things like Brick Bank changed that perception, when the whole idea of the laundromat is to include a joke on laundering money and a play route to get into the bank. And lego would never include anything but the classic smiley heads in modulars - again, now changed. Things do change sometimes, even when there is an apparent tradition in place.