The Second Crash - Day 4

[CMP]

I don't want another no lynch so Vote: Ewan (mostlytechnic)

But I think the bandwagon formed too quickly.

What I mean by that is that at least one person I am (as are others) suspicious of voted in on the bandwagon already and I would wager that the other person I suspect will vote in the bandwagon before day's end.

Thanks for your input.

How about you actually bring up your suspicions for once?

[Lady K]

I don't want another no lynch so Vote: Ewan (mostlytechnic)

But I think the bandwagon formed too quickly.

What I mean by that is that at least one person I am (as are others) suspicious of voted in on the bandwagon already and I would wager that the other person I suspect will vote in the bandwagon before day's end.

What I mean by that is that at least one person I am (as are others) suspicious of voted in on the bandwagon already and I would wager that the other person I suspect will vote in the bandwagon before day's end.

It did form quickly, but at this point we need that. We don't want another missed/shortened day to go by without a lynch. It would be helpful for you to state your suspicions as we need all opinions to come forth.

As to my suspicions on Ewan, I have gone back over all the days and votes. What I found was that he was immediately drawn into a debate over math with his suspicions over Elijah. As we all know Elijah being the towniest of townies will draw suspicion from someone. What bothered me most as that 'someone' has much adventure experience and has hidden in the shadows before. When a vote was placed on him, he became more silent and withdrawn. Later on he suddenly stated to everyone that he was indeed still with us, but due to past experience didn't want to draw attention to himself with either sharing his won opinions or by leading us astray down false paths (which he has done in the shadows of the past). This really bothers me and feels scummy.

Ewan has yet to make an appearance to address these concerns which I feel only adds to the scummyness of his actions.

[KotZ]

I agree with Foorth's analysis, it seems likely that either Quincy or Ewan are scum.

For the record, I'm not scum.

Another poor accusation from you. Once again, you're jumping on an easy bandwagon and trying to look helpful by saying something. Utterly transparent

How many scum do we think there are? With seventeen initial players, I can't think there would be any more than four scum, especially since last game was so unbalanced. Two down, so two (probably) left. What if the team is Quincy, Wynn, Duke and Anthony? In that scenario Duke would probably be allowed to claim tracker....

I would love to know why you think it was a poor accusation. There wasn't really a bandwagon at that point. I was the third person to speak. Yes, the other two spoke about Ewan. They also spoke about me. Somewhat hard to not speak about me when Ewan had accused me. I was just giving my thoughts on what he did yesterday.

For your second point, you mention me, Wynn, and two scum already dead. I can't speak for Wynn as I haven't been paying attention to him all that closely. Does Ewan not ping you at all? We have an idea on him, yet do you not think it worth to follow up? Are you avoiding lynching him as you're together, or are you just trying to turn the vote on me and have the town remove another fellow townie?

Vote: Ewan (mostlytechnic)

That's not to say you haven't been pinged, Ray. I'll see what is revealed tomorrow and decide what more to think of you then.

[Tariq j]

Hmm... Looking back at the previous Days there's a couple of things that don't sit well with MT:

Firstly we have his "debate" with Delwyn (RotF), she built up, in my opinion, a very strong case against him on Day 2 and then she got killed that night. Something about that doesn't add up... because of the result about Anthony, the focus was drawn off MT, but to me it appears Ranger knew/discovered something that MT didn't like and killed her to keep himself safe.

Secondly we have this:

I'd apologize for being late but honestly I'm better than you guys and you were all just early.

So, let us see: I won't focus on Anthony since that guy is practically dead and I don't feel like reading every single page just to add to the point that he is scum. (And I just saw that he posted above me)

The accusations against def (at least I think they are) are practically pointless. In my mind, scum plan every single detail of their post to make sure he/she doesn't seem scummy or doesn't and def seems to experience to let something like "no chance that I am godfather" thing slip up.

Then, there is mostlytechnic, He was 'pointing out' that there was a possibility that def was a godfather and it wasn't confirmed that he was scum. Then, as soon as Anthony is confirmed scum:

Then he just seems to continue discussing with RangeroftheForest.

Speaking of Delwyn, she just reinforced her accusations on Quincy and then proceeded to defend herself from mostlytechnic. I don't find this to be particular scummy actions, but it would be nice that you contributed a bit more to the discussion.

Speaking of Quincy (Yes, I am starting every observation with "Speaking of". Sue me), all you did that is of notice was to defend yourself from accusations until you could "hug it out", demand an update on claims and just seem to try and sneakily instill suspicion about Ewan:

Now interpret this how you like but to me (now that we know Cutcobra is scum) it's a very subtle way of defending MT against Quincy and Delwyn but attacking them at the same time.

We need a lynch so... Vote: Ewan (Mostlytechnic)

You keep dodging your "suspicion" of me from the last three days. You failed to explain why what you accused me of (questioning logic) is scummy, and you only made yourself look bad. Now you've apparently dropped all suspicion of me - probably because you want to pursue an easier bandwagon like Ewan's. And then you bring Lusk's name out of the blue - you've never said zat you suspect him before, or why you suspect him.....

Odd that, because like I said yesterday that wasn't what you told me:

3) I didn't ask a question regarding the logic behind the ping: that's only what Woodcock has accused me of. I made a fluffy role-playing comment referring to Foorth being a robot. And even if I hypothetically did do what Woodcock is accusing me of, I don't get how it's scummy at all. Oh la la!

You seem to be very good at finding fault in other people's logic, but not actually contributing your own thoughts in the discussion.

[Lady K]

Hmm... Looking back at the previous Days there's a couple of things that don't sit well with MT:

Firstly we have his "debate" with Delwyn (RotF), she built up, in my opinion, a very strong case against him on Day 2 and then she got killed that night. Something about that doesn't add up... because of the result about Anthony, the focus was drawn off MT, but to me it appears Ranger knew/discovered something that MT didn't like and killed her to keep himself safe.

Secondly we have this:

Now interpret this how you like but to me (now that we know Cutcobra is scum) it's a very subtle way of defending MT against Quincy and Delwyn but attacking them at the same time.

We need a lynch so... Vote: Ewan (Mostlytechnic)

Odd that, because like I said yesterday that wasn't what you told me:

You seem to be very good at finding fault in other people's logic, but not actually contributing your own thoughts in the discussion.

These are some very good points. I went back and looked at the post and related posts and it does indeed seem as though he was defending MT. What also is worth noting here is this post came in 30min after the day had ended. A desperate last attempt to save a scum teammate and possibly himself.

[mostlytechnic]

As for Ewan, Julia did an excellent job yesterday of analyzing him. What I do want to mention is at the very end of the day, he switches his vote from Woodcock to Duke. He switched with only 30 minutes left. To me, even though it looked like a no lynch, I think it was a calculated move by him to seem less scummy and hide his role. If there is no scum protector and they knew that Duke was to be killed in the night, he could say "Well look! I voted for scum! Barely anyone else did."

Another good day to sing about! We will have some more good info for you, as soon as we have analyzed all our night results.

Yesterday the late vote was my fault. I waited too long to give you the needed information. After the long trekking down these stairs, I fell asleep (before the host time stamp of 14hrs left) and didn't notice time passing quickly. I wanted us all to sing together more instead of just trekking along eerily quiet......

So today I will that information to you all more quickly.

I'm here now. And ready to fight for my survival - because a lynch of me is a lynch of a townie. Not a great townie in this adventure - I'm a vanilla townie who's been too quiet due to other things going on - but still a townie. A lynch of me is 100% not a scum lynch, and therefore the wrong direction for town. My vote change yesterday was 100% because we got some results from Molly so I acted on them. I was here and changed my vote. Why on earth would I NOT have? In fact, if I hadn't changed and anyone had seen me around, that would have been ultra-scummy, right?

Vote: Ewan Breckenridge (mostlytechnic)

I won't give specifics yet, as I want to hear what Ewan has to say in his own defense......and because he was here this morning...... back from another scouting expedition and didn't bother to leave any kind of report at all!

What on earth could you possibly have learned that is against me? Whatever it is, it's lies and THAT person is the scum.

I won't give specifics yet, as I want to hear what Ewan has to say in his own defense......and because he was here this morning...... back from another scouting expedition and didn't bother to leave any kind of report at all!

And as for that, you need to be more careful on your reports. I was on EB this morning, but NOT in the day thread. That's why I didn't respond. I got as far as getting to the mafia forum when I had to go deal with a screaming kid and never got back to the computer till now. So no, I had no idea I was getting voted like this until just now.

Coming up will be a response to Footh's day-starting analysis, but it'll take a little time to assemble since he had some good points with research but drew the wrong conclusions.

[mostlytechnic]

I wonder what the Shadows were up to last night? This also suggests they have no protector since Lady K announced his death sentence in the thread yesterday... and that they don't know who the vigilante is.

He talks about mostlytechnic as well, but I honestly can't tell what he thinks of him from this post. This could be a scumtell for MT - I always talk about my teammates but remain very ambivalent on them.

But here he says the above people (MT and King of the Zempk among some dead people) warrant a vote. With a list that big, I wouldn't be surprised if one scum is in there, and since he was after Zempk from day one, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was mostly technic.

Yes, I edited that down to just the things I want to comment on. First, good deductions about the scum abilities/knowledge. Makes sense to me. Someone also mentioned today that Duke was probably the scum killer since there was no night kill from them, but that doesn't make sense. Normally in that scenario his kill would have occurred too. So I think the scum kill failed - for example, if they tried to kill Molly but she was protected. Or our blocked successfully blocked the killer. Therefore, I'd recommend Molly re-analyse her info and consider that. If you want to lynch scum, I'd recommend we take out whoever was blocked instead of me, since I'm not scum.

I'd agree that light talk about people can be a scumtell. Does that mean everyone Duke ever mentioned was scum? Seems like you're reaching here, given that he made one tiny mention of me. To be a scumtell you'd probably need to see more than that.

Generally, I agree with your analysis that a list from a scum has a scum on it. But here's where I disagree - I know I'm not scum, so that makes me suspect Quincy automatically. I went through day 1 - the vote Duke put on Quincy was about the only mention he made of him, and there was no real risk of quincy getting lynched, so it'd be a safe thing to do if both were scum. Day 2, Duke made one single post in which he made brief mentions of both quincy and myself, amongst several others and bringing up multiple scum teams and other stuff. Day 3, Duke never showed up. So your argument that Duke was " after zempk from day 1" seems WAY overstating things. He placed a single no-risk vote on Quincy and even if Duke isn't savvy enough to do that, he'd have a team helping him and suggesting that some scum vote for other scum in day 1. So I'd say there's a solid case that Quincy is scum.

[Bob]

Vote: Lusk Eccleston (fhomess)

I'm not so sold on the Ewan lynch, sadly! I've been suspect of Lusk for quite some time now. He's been quiet, which means he's either scum or just useless to us. Elijah is also quiet too. It's disconcerting, I think. It'll be interesting to see if Lusk speaks up now that I've voted for him. It's a bit late in the game for a poke or a nudge, but I'm doing it anyway! Fantastic!

As for Ewan, I don't know. He's been quiet for awhile like Lusk, which in itself is suspect to me. It might be too late, but I'm voting for someone else. Excellent! We started this journey with 17 people and we've rooted out two Shadows. There could be two or three more and then a potential third party faction of sorts. The rules don't say anything about a neutral, mind you, but it does mention that the Town and Shadows must outnumber all enemy factions.

[Dragonfire]

Vote: Ewan Breckenridge (mostlytechnic)

I won't give specifics yet, as I want to hear what Ewan has to say in his own defense......and because he was here this morning...... back from another scouting expedition and didn't bother to leave any kind of report at all!

Vote: Ewan Breckenridge (mostlytechnic). I guess this post is implying that you suspect Ewan based on behind-the-scenes reasons that the rest of us aren't privy to. If so, then hopefully we can lynch another Shadow today

Foorth, why do you want to look for teams? At this point wouldn't the shadows try to distance themselves from each other so one can survive? Also what about the possibility of an SK? That hasn't been brought up as much here as other times in the past, the lack of kills hasn't even been discussed as much at all.....like some are trying to keep that thought in the dark? We may very well have 3 left not just 2. The rules are specific.....all enemy factions. I don't think it would be worded so clearly if it wasn't a possibility.

It's unlikely that there is a SK because there's never been more than two kills in one night, and both Mike and Duke were ideal vigilante targets IMO. However, two scum teams is much more likely due to ze wording of ze rules.

Odd that, because like I said yesterday that wasn't what you told me:

You seem to be very good at finding fault in other people's logic, but not actually contributing your own thoughts in the discussion.

To be honest, I don't understand what you're trying to say here and what you're trying to accuse me of. :wacko: You've bolded this line:

3) I didn't ask a question regarding the logic behind the ping: that's only what Woodcock has accused me of. I made a fluffy role-playing comment referring to Foorth being a robot. And even if I hypothetically did do what Woodcock is accusing me of, I don't get how it's scummy at all. Oh la la!

Maybe you don't understand what I was saying there. I'll bullet-point it for you.

- I made a fluffy, role-playing comment referring to Foorth being a robot

- Woodcock accused me of "subtly questioning the logic behind the ping"

- I don't get how "subtly questioning the logic behind the ping" is scummy; plus,I didn't do it.

I would love to know why you think it was a poor accusation. There wasn't really a bandwagon at that point. I was the third person to speak. Yes, the other two spoke about Ewan. They also spoke about me. Somewhat hard to not speak about me when Ewan had accused me. I was just giving my thoughts on what he did yesterday.

Maybe "bandwagon" was the wrong word choice. What I was referring to was that yesterday, Ewan was a very popular lynch choice, right up until Molly revealed Duke's scumminess. Today, the two people to speak before you suspected Ewan. You knew that lots of people suspected Ewan and you could get momentum on him, so you say something against him too. Additionally, it takes the focus off of you. You said this:

Score! Another Shadow down!

As for Ewan, Julia did an excellent job yesterday of analyzing him. What I do want to mention is at the very end of the day, he switches his vote from Woodcock to Duke. He switched with only 30 minutes left. To me, even though it looked like a no lynch, I think it was a calculated move by him to seem less scummy and hide his role. If there is no scum protector and they knew that Duke was to be killed in the night, he could say "Well look! I voted for scum! Barely anyone else did."

Voting for a teammate doesn't get you "townie points". You should know that already. Your entire point about Ewan is simply bad WIFOM.

For your second point, you mention me, Wynn, and two scum already dead. I can't speak for Wynn as I haven't been paying attention to him all that closely. Does Ewan not ping you at all? We have an idea on him, yet do you not think it worth to follow up? Are you avoiding lynching him as you're together, or are you just trying to turn the vote on me and have the town remove another fellow townie?

I believe you are guilty of twisting my words to give the wrong impressions. I said this:

How many scum do we think there are? With seventeen initial players, I can't think there would be any more than four scum, especially since last game was so unbalanced. Two down, so two (probably) left. What if the team is Quincy, Wynn, Duke and Anthony? In that scenario Duke would probably be allowed to claim tracker....

When I mentioned you, Wynn and the two dead scum, I was thinking of possible scumteams in which Duke would be allowed to claim tracker (ie. scum teams with few experienced people). That was what I was going on about. But then I said this:

Either way, I think you have a good point: the scum are likely to be in Quincy, Wynn, Woodcock and Ewan. Possibly Gale, Lusk and Dink, but those three are somewhat less likely.

You're accusing me of avoiding lynching Ewan, yet I said that he was one of my four top suspects. You're taking parts of my post and setting them up to be misleading to others. I really really want to vote you now...

Oh, and

That's not to say you haven't been pinged, Ray. I'll see what is revealed tomorrow and decide what more to think of you then.

Ooooohhhh....I'm so scared And I most definitely have been pinged... by you! Ping! There.

[Lady K]

Host, how much longer in our day to change our vote (if need be)?

[Dragonfire]

Host, how much longer in our day to change our vote (if need be)?

Rules

3. A game day will last for 72 hours. You may not vote in the first 24 hours.

Voting is now open!

Our Host said zis approximately 9 hours and 24 minutes ago. Therefore if we had 48 hours remaining after voting opened, we should have approximately 39 hours and 16 minutes left

[JackJonespaw]

Vote Update!

3 Votes for Ewan Breckenridge: (Lady K, CallMePie, Tamamono, PirateDave84, KingoftheZempk, Tariq j, Dragonfire)

1 Vote for Lusk Eccleston: (Bob)

Around 26 Hours left!

[MagPiesRUs]

I don't want another no lynch so Vote: Ewan (mostlytechnic)

But I think the bandwagon formed too quickly.

What I mean by that is that at least one person I am (as are others) suspicious of voted in on the bandwagon already and I would wager that the other person I suspect will vote in the bandwagon before day's end.

Why not vote for the people you're suspicious of? Or at least build a case against them? There's still plenty of time left in the day, you don't need to settle for lynching someone you're not confident is scum.

For now, I think I'll follow Woodcock's lead and Vote: Lusk Eccleston (fhomess)

[mostlytechnic]

I do believe our wonderful host needs some remedial kindergarden math - he says 3 votes on me but lists 7 names. I'd be happy to count those 7 people as 3 though...

[JackJonespaw]

Vote Update!

7 Votes for Ewan Breckenridge: (Lady K, CallMePie, Tamamono, PirateDave84, KingoftheZempk, Tariq j, Dragonfire)

1 Vote for Lusk Eccleston: (Bob)

Around 22 Hours left!

(screw you Ewan)

[mostlytechnic]

More importantly... I'm not done fighting. Working on a case right now in fact. However, in the (likely?) event I'm lynched, you'll see me flip town tomorrow, so Molly, PLEASE make sure someone you trust knows what this accusation against me was, so that in case you get killed by the scum, the town has that information to use tomorrow.

[JackJonespaw]

Vote Update!

7 Votes for Ewan Breckenridge: (Lady K, CallMePie, Tamamono, PirateDave84, KingoftheZempk, Tariq j, Dragonfire)

2 Votes for Lusk Eccleston: (Bob, TPRU)

Around 23 Hours left!

(screw you Ewan)

[mostlytechnic]

Done defending myself unless some new actual accusation comes out. Instead, time to put my time towards finding the real scum among us. The most obvious, as brought up by Footh, would be Quincy, based on Duke's names, because I do agree that a proven scum is likely to have thrown some actual scum into his mentions.

Day 1

Posts the normal fluff like anyone else, then is quiet a while, then jumps on Perce's weird claiming to place the second vote on Perce. After a few more content-less posts, Quincy gets voted against by Delwyn, a proven townie (who apparently has decent day 1 reading ability since she'd also voted against Anthony!)

I didn't want to vote for Quincy since I don't want to jump right in to something from a mere suggestion of scumminess. I realize I need little more than just fluff as a reason to vote for someone. Up until now, though, he hasn't contributed to anything. Only voted for Perce, who seemed like he (Perce) was getting a bandwagon of votes behind him. So:

Vote: Quincy Easton (KingoftheZempk)

And then here Duke votes for Quincy, when there's like 8 people with votes on them, it puts just the second vote on Quincy, and both Perce and Delwyn had 3 votes on them. And with such a slight reason for this vote on Quincy, it'd be easy for Duke to change it later if there was any steam on a quincy bandwagon. On the other hand, it was likely that one of the two townies was going to get lynched, so this was a great time for one scum to vote for another to use as a defense later in the game. Too bad it backfired by Duke getting lynched first...

Day 2

Could it be Ewan is actually scum and is trying to deflect the damage to an innocent, possibly even a power role? Although the next day if it turned up Elijah was town we would turn on Ewan, but he could claim that he was just citing statistics and everyone else ran with it. Gah this hurts my sweat-filled head.

Starts the day off poking at me, without actually making a point here.

Any updates on claims, Molly? I'd rather not vote until we have a better understanding of where we stand, unless I really need to vote now.

Prods the block for info, then as soon as Molly declares a scum has been found, Quincy votes and disappears for the rest of the day.

Day 3

If he did survive the night, I would have been interested to see who he tried to point out. Obviously that can't happen now and we wouldn't have known he was town until tomorrow, but it could have provided a direction on where to go.

Does anyone else think Mike's killer could be a vigilante?

Why? He clearly had no clue. Ping! You have useless conjecture.

Solidly agree with Elijah here, why would you be that interested in Mike's thoughts? And why the fishing for vig info? Trying to muddy the waters of what the scum did? I actually doubt the scum DID kill Mike, since he made more sense as a vig target than scum, but just feels like fishing to me.

Overall, Quincy has made little actual contribution, prodded OTHERS frequently about not talking enough (hypocritical much?), and done a bit of fishing. This is far from the most solid case I've ever built, but it's certainly enough for me to

Vote: Quincy (KingoftheZempk)

[def]

Vote: Ewan (mostlytechnic)

Very happy to vote this. At best, your anti-logic arguments have been a distraction, at worst, your anti-logic arguments have been a deliberately scummy distraction. Do I need to state reasons?

[fhomess]

Vote: Ewan (Mostlytechnic)

I will do my best to properly catch up tomorrow. The case against me appears to be primarily a nudge to get me involved more. I can't really do anything beyond apologize at this point. This isn't how I like to approach these situations.

[Tariq j]

Done defending myself unless some new actual accusation comes out.

You still have't responded to my points

[Dragonfire]

You still have't responded to my points

Don't be a hypocrite, good Doctor. You haven't responded to mine zince midway through Day Three

[mostlytechnic]

You still have't responded to my points

What points? Your claim that Delwyn made a "strong case" against me on day 2? I just re-read day 2 and I sure don't see any case against me. She and I had a debate over her scum-reading me on day 1, but that's all. There was no case made. And what on earth could she possibly have learned that would make me want to kill her off, if I was scum? I wouldn't have claimed anything in PM to her, and if she was any PR that had learned anything about me (not that there is anything to learn, since I've already stated I'm vanilla townie) we'd have heard about it publicly. You're just reaching here.

[JackJonespaw]

Vote Update!

9 Votes for Ewan Breckenridge: (Lady K, CallMePie, Tamamono, PirateDave84, KingoftheZempk, Tariq j, Dragonfire, def, fhomess)

2 Votes for Lusk Eccleston: (Bob, TPRU)

1 Vote for Quincy Easton: (mostlytechnic)

Around 12 Hours Left!!

[Tariq j]

What points? Your claim that Delwyn made a "strong case" against me on day 2? I just re-read day 2 and I sure don't see any case against me. She and I had a debate over her scum-reading me on day 1, but that's all. There was no case made. And what on earth could she possibly have learned that would make me want to kill her off, if I was scum? I wouldn't have claimed anything in PM to her, and if she was any PR that had learned anything about me (not that there is anything to learn, since I've already stated I'm vanilla townie) we'd have heard about it publicly. You're just reaching here.

Then what's all this stuff about "baseless votes"?

If you’re not trying to pick a fight then why are you insisting we continue to talk about this? If we go by your logic, I certainly wasn’t the only person to throw out a “baseless” comment on day one. What I said was honestly more of a self reminder than anything. Next time I say anything about you, I’ll make sure to have a full powerpoint presentation with a list of my sources prepared. Are you happy now?

I still believe there was something going on there, you did respond to this post.

Don't be a hypocrite, good Doctor. You haven't responded to mine zince midway through Day Three

You mean this one:

Please respond to my earlier question.

I didn't know what you meant, there was no earlier question. In any case I apologize for suspecting you, I didn't know what you meant.