The Second Crash - Day 2

[Dragonfire]

I thought I made my reasoning very clear when I did vote for him. I was pointing out how odd it was that he questioned Foorth's ping. It may have been some splendid roleplay, but it also could have had some sinister undertones that he could not try to pass off as roleplay. I found it suspect and I voted for him. Is there some reason you're bringing my vote yesterday into question?

To be honest, this seems as if you're just looking for an excuse to justify a weak, baseless vote. What sinister undertones could it have had?

And I was going to bring this up today as well, Dink just got to it first.

[KotZ]

Quincy, do you have anything to say to my comments from yesterday? Or do you not consider my thoughts regarding you worthy of a response?

I did not get a PM from jluck, if it matters.

I found it normal Day 1 activity, trying to get a lynch. Others mentioned you changed your opinion and not just your vote. Honestly it did not bother me that much (this sweat on the otherhand is bothering). I would have you know I made a mental note of your "opinion" change as others put it.

[Ranger of the Forest]

I found it normal Day 1 activity, trying to get a lynch. Others mentioned you changed your opinion and not just your vote. Honestly it did not bother me that much (this sweat on the otherhand is bothering). I would have you know I made a mental note of your "opinion" change as others put it.

I already explained myself on that point, and I don't see a reasom to repeat myself here. And if you were so concerned about getting a lynch, why weren't you here at all to push for that in the second half of the day? :confused: Just because it's day one doesn't mean you can't post anything of substance. If it's RL stuff then that's at least understandable, but if not then why were you mia for the rest of the day?

I mean, if this is all the response you have, then fine, I'll take it. But I don't have to like it or think that it makes you less suspicious.

[KotZ]

I already explained myself on that point, and I don't see a reasom to repeat myself here. And if you were so concerned about getting a lynch, why weren't you here at all to push for that in the second half of the day? :confused: Just because it's day one doesn't mean you can't post anything of substance. If it's RL stuff then that's at least understandable, but if not then why were you mia for the rest of the day?

I mean, if this is all the response you have, then fine, I'll take it. But I don't have to like it or think that it makes you less suspicious.

Sorry, I meant your vote and changing fairly Day 1, not my statements. As for me not speaking as much, I felt I had said my piece, didn't see what more I could add as it would then sound as if I was just parrotting other people.

[fhomess]

Ewan... why are you so obsessed with the chance that Elijah is the godfather? I don't disagree with your assertion that he's no more or less likely to be Godfather this time, but this seems to miss the whole point of us trying to find scum. Sure it's possible he's the Godfather but it's a lot more likely that he's any flavor of scum (and even more likely that he's not scum at all from a purely mathematical standpoint) and you seem to be ignoring that possibility in favor of something less likely. We need to find all the scum, not just the Godfather, and you're harping on math. The math works out the same for all of us until we analyze behavior. I don't find Elijah's mathematical statement to be any more or less scummy than his claim to be the towniest of townies.

[Ranger of the Forest]

Sorry, I meant your vote and changing fairly Day 1, not my statements. As for me not speaking as much, I felt I had said my piece, didn't see what more I could add as it would then sound as if I was just parrotting other people.

And that's what I meant too...

I mean ya don't just parrot people but it's OK to say you agree with someone, and then expand upon their thoughts by giving your own take. Which you did do some of yesterday in one post, to your credit. I don't still think you would be a good lynch today, however.

[KotZ]

And that's what I meant too...

I mean ya don't just parrot people but it's OK to say you agree with someone, and then expand upon their thoughts by giving your own take. Which you did do some of yesterday in one post, to your credit. I don't still think you would be a good lynch today, however.

Oh thank goodness. Want a hug? Or is the sweat putting you off?

Ewan... why are you so obsessed with the chance that Elijah is the godfather? I don't disagree with your assertion that he's no more or less likely to be Godfather this time, but this seems to miss the whole point of us trying to find scum. Sure it's possible he's the Godfather but it's a lot more likely that he's any flavor of scum (and even more likely that he's not scum at all from a purely mathematical standpoint) and you seem to be ignoring that possibility in favor of something less likely. We need to find all the scum, not just the Godfather, and you're harping on math. The math works out the same for all of us until we analyze behavior. I don't find Elijah's mathematical statement to be any more or less scummy than his claim to be the towniest of townies.

Could it be Ewan is actually scum and is trying to deflect the damage to an innocent, possibly even a power role? Although the next day if it turned up Elijah was town we would turn on Ewan, but he could claim that he was just citing statistics and everyone else ran with it. Gah this hurts my sweat-filled head.

[Lady K]

For all those doubters out there I am the Town Blocker. It would be way to risky for the scum to claim day 1 just to get out of a lynch. If I was scum then the real blocker would have counterclaimed by now, I would be lynched today and turn up scum and the the scum team would have lost a team member for no gain what so ever. With my late claim had I been lynched Day 1 then I would have turned up town and the town would know their blocker was dead and the scum couldn't fake claim. This is why a townie claims Day 1 if they are about to be lynched to keep scum from getting a fake claim on a PR.

Now that my claim is in the open and with no night kills allowed last night, that gives us the opportunity to start to form the town block early, but this only works if I get claims from everyone...and I do mean everyone of you. Please don't wait longer as we have lost the first part of the day just arguing and not actively scum hunting.

Not to play devils advocate here, but as we discussed in PM, just because there's no counterclaim doesn't mean you are confirmed. Our "blocker" may have his/her own reasons for not counterclaiming, for example being in fact a jailkeeper.

Yes I am confirmed. There is no valid reason for a scum to try and claim a PR Day 1 just to get out of a lynch. Day 2 or later maybe, but not day 1 its just too risky to get caught.

Why did you say 'Our "blocker"' and put the quotes around blocker and then bring up jailkeeper (which is also another term for paranoid doctor) which is a role I haven't seen yet in the many games I have played? And a scum team could have a paranoid doctor in the case of multiple scum teams in a game.

You are playing Devil's Advocate, and she is confirmed. If she claimed a soft investigative claim like role cop or something, it might be iffy. But blocker is one of the holy trinity of town roles (cop, doc and block), It would be horribly risky claim if she wanted to live. At the very least, the 'real' blocker would be coming on here and saying, "I don't buy it, too convenient." I would even go so far that it would be worth it to expose the town blocker for the sake of getting rid of guaranteed scum.

With that in mind, I think there's a 100% chance she's legit (and if there is a counter-claiming town blocker, speak up now!). Give it 24 hours to verify there is no counter-claim, and then, yeah, power role people should be claiming to her.

Claiming now would be better as I already have some coming in and need time in case of counterclaims to see who is town and who is scum trying to get into the town block.

I would agree that in 24 hours we can treat her as confirmed. It's likely the cop investigated her last night to prove the claim. Until that deadline has passed, I still think it is important to consider the fact that she could still be scum.

No I can't be scum, it would not make sense for me to fake claim on Day 1. Too much risk involved.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with my logic. I don't know if the cop investigated last night, but it's a logical conclusion to make. I agree, it would probably be better if he/she investigated someone else.

jluck and I have talked a bit in PM's during the night and I'm getting a strong town-read on him. The votes on him yesterday were essentially because he placed a joke vote to try and get def's title changed. Some harmless Day 1 roleplay, effectively. I don't recall him found anything else suspicious?

*investigated her. Of course the cop would investigate someone. It would be stupid not to.

You seemed to be focused on the town cop and results here, this is scummy behavior.

No, I think you deliberately left your vote on Perce in order to distance yourself from the Molly wagon, as you knew she'd flip town. Common scum tactic.

I got it.

Just pointing out that if Molly is to be believed, then she was the town blocker two games in a row - surely equally as likely as Elijah being the godfather.

Why would you say if I am to be believed? Really, do you think I would be making this up? For what logical reason?

I would also like to point out that Rule #1 states that town must kill all enemy factions. Notice the word all in there, we may very well have not only an SK but another mafia faction. Due to Mike using the Jailkeeper as an example, a Jailkeeper can also be a Paranoid Doctor and the description on Mafiawiki states that in the case of Sk and another mafia faction the scum team would have a paranoid doctor on their side.

This line of thinking has me concerned that the town block needs to form sooner rather than later!

[Tariq j]

Agreed. We take it at face value until we get something else. The benefit from believing her outweighs the risk, especially since it's so low. What scum would claim at this point?

24 hour grace period is fine.

But then a 24 hour grace period also delays the formation of the town block and any discussion(s) they may have.

[Dragonfire]

I found it normal Day 1 activity, trying to get a lynch. Others mentioned you changed your opinion and not just your vote. Honestly it did not bother me that much (this sweat on the otherhand is bothering). I would have you know I made a mental note of your "opinion" change as others put it.

So it didn't bother you.... but you still made a mental note of it? What are you trying to say here?

Sorry, I meant your vote and changing fairly Day 1, not my statements. As for me not speaking as much, I felt I had said my piece, didn't see what more I could add as it would then sound as if I was just parrotting other people.

This reads like scum so afraid of looking scummy that they don't dare to post. Voice your opinions, who cares if they're the same as someone else's; if you're town then the best way to help town is get your thoughts out there. Being afraid of looking scummy is for the scum

Why would you say if I am to be believed? Really, do you think I would be making this up? For what logical reason?

I do believe you, but I'm not going to accept anything as a fact unless it's somehow proven. I've learned from experience that immediately trusting public PR claims can really screw your game up. That said, I do think you're town, just not going to 100% believe it for now.

I would also like to point out that Rule #1 states that town must kill all enemy factions. Notice the word all in there, we may very well have not only an SK but another mafia faction. Due to Mike using the Jailkeeper as an example, a Jailkeeper can also be a Paranoid Doctor and the description on Mafiawiki states that in the case of Sk and another mafia faction the scum team would have a paranoid doctor on their side.

Actually, that makes real sense. Two mafia teams is exactly the kind of fiendish twist our hosts would put into this game....

[Bob]

To be honest, this seems as if you're just looking for an excuse to justify a weak, baseless vote. What sinister undertones could it have had?

And I was going to bring this up today as well, Dink just got to it first.

Oh yes, because all early Day One votes are completely airtight cases that are founded upon fantastic evidence. Why haven't you called out any other early Day One votes? Anthony voted for Elijah just for laughs. You don't find that suspicious?

Are you just calling out my votes because I'm the one who went after you? Did I perhaps strike a nerve? Excellent!

[Lady K]

So it didn't bother you.... but you still made a mental note of it? What are you trying to say here?

This reads like scum so afraid of looking scummy that they don't dare to post. Voice your opinions, who cares if they're the same as someone else's; if you're town then the best way to help town is get your thoughts out there. Being afraid of looking scummy is for the scum

I do believe you, but I'm not going to accept anything as a fact unless it's somehow proven. I've learned from experience that immediately trusting public PR claims can really screw your game up. That said, I do think you're town, just not going to 100% believe it for now.

Actually, that makes real sense. Two mafia teams is exactly the kind of fiendish twist our hosts would put into this game....

Ok so you do think I am town, but your just not going to 100% believe it for now? This makes no sense. Either you believe I am town or you don't, you can't have it both ways.

[Dragonfire]

Oh yes, because all early Day One votes are completely airtight cases that are founded upon fantastic evidence. Why haven't you called out any other early Day One votes? Anthony voted for Elijah just for laughs. You don't find that suspicious?

Anthony voted Elijah for laughs, and said as much. That's far less suspicious than you, mainly because you still hold on to that weak, baseless vote whereas Anthony has long since abandoned his.

Ok so you do think I am town, but your just not going to 100% believe it for now? This makes no sense. Either you believe I am town or you don't, you can't have it both ways.

There's a difference between thinking someone is town and taking it as a fact.

[Lady K]

Anthony voted Elijah for laughs, and said as much. That's far less suspicious than you, mainly because you still hold on to that weak, baseless vote whereas Anthony has long since abandoned his.

There's a difference between thinking someone is town and taking it as a fact.

Fact, I am town and the blocker.

Fact, eight of you have sent me claims.

Fact, seven of you have not sent me a claim yet. Please do so now.

[Bob]

Anthony voted Elijah for laughs, and said as much. That's far less suspicious than you, mainly because you still hold on to that weak, baseless vote whereas Anthony has long since abandoned his.

Sorry if I still hold on to my suspicion of you. Calm yourself, friend. It'll be fantastic!

[JackJonespaw]

Voting is now open!

[Lady K]

With voting open I would to get things going but I still need six of you to claim!

[MagPiesRUs]

I thought I made my reasoning very clear when I did vote for him. I was pointing out how odd it was that he questioned Foorth's ping. It may have been some splendid roleplay, but it also could have had some sinister undertones that he could not try to pass off as roleplay. I found it suspect and I voted for him. Is there some reason you're bringing my vote yesterday into question?

I just don't understand why you found this sinister. Do you still think it's sinister? Why? Foorth also agreed it was sinister, so maybe I'm just missing something here. Foorth, can you explain why it was sinister?

[Tariq j]

I do believe you, but I'm not going to accept anything as a fact unless it's somehow proven. I've learned from experience that immediately trusting public PR claims can really screw your game up. That said, I do think you're town, just not going to 100% believe it for now.

The question is though - How is it going to be proven? If someone else steps up and says "I'm the blocker" how are you going to decide who is lying and who's telling the truth? Best to go with your gut instincts than waiting. What I find somewhat scummy about your post is that you haven't taken a clear standpoint, you're sitting on the fence deliberating with yourself which isn't helping the town.

[mediumsnowman]

I'd like to vote for TPRU today but I think I'll wait for Lady K's report from the preliminary block in case a better candidate emerges.

[Lady K]

I'd like to vote for TPRU today but I think I'll wait for Lady K's report from the preliminary block in case a better candidate emerges.

Still waiting on the last few claims Mike and then something interesting should surface. How about we all get together for a song....no...ok.

[jluck]

Still waiting on the last few claims Mike and then something interesting should surface. How about we all get together for a song....no...ok.

How many are you waiting on? Foorth said he'd be gone most of today so you may not hear from him.

[def]

I'm going to start by voting:

Vote: Mike (mediumsnowman)

They claimed vanilla town to me in private for no reason. They can't know I'm safe to tell unless they're scum, and it sounds like they're fishing to be investigated, a la being the godfather.

[mediumsnowman]

I'm going to start by voting:

Vote: Mike (mediumsnowman)

They claimed vanilla town to me in private for no reason. They can't know I'm safe to tell unless they're scum, and it sounds like they're fishing to be investigated, a la being the godfather.

I was getting a good town read on you and thought I'd reach out to some potential allies. I thought you had made some good points and wanted to get you on board to lynch TPRU. I am vanilla town, and now that you've spilled the details of my claim to everyone I can't try and draw the night kill away from our legit PR's. Good job.

[def]

I was getting a good town read on you and thought I'd reach out to some potential allies. I thought you had made some good points and wanted to get you on board to lynch TPRU. I am vanilla town, and now that you've spilled the details of my claim to everyone I can't try and draw the night kill away from our legit PR's. Good job.

That was your master plan? To draw out a night kill on yourself? Bad job. That's a last resort, and unlikely to happen unless you publicly claim something, which is more likely to get you lynched than anything else due to counterclaims.

Hopefully the rest of the 'town' has more sophisticated plans. Anyway, claiming town goes without saying, but there was no reason to tell me your 'role' and it makes you look suss. Not a slam dunk lynch, but it puts you above Ewan in my lynch line up. If you end up being town, you brought it on yourself. Nobody in all my years of playing has ever started a PM to me on day one with " I'm a Vanilla Townie" (but vanilla townie is in green, which I can't write on my phone)