Unrest in the Forest - Day 5: A Farewell to Kings

[Zepher]

I note you left yourself out of the suspect list that keeps bouncing around....

And care to actually BUILD some cases, rather than just say there are cases?

Ah, good point. The case against Nash would sure be something that I think would be a strong lead for tomorrow! Oh, wait, I know I'm not a Maple, so that would be an idiotic thing to say!

[jimmynick]

Waldorf, n9254 targets?

I'd love to tell you, but it seems that most of the stumps think being a stump grants a license to check out of the game.

[Bob]

Oh I see.

I remember a few townies doing this in a House of Cards forest, and they were lynched because of it. I don't think it's alignment indicative since mainly only newbs do it.

Haven't you been saying that you're not a newbie? I don't get it, are you doing yet another reversal? You've said you played on other websites with a janitor role, and now you're trying to claim you're a noob again. I don't get it.

[Hinckley]

I'd love to tell you, but it seems that most of the stumps think being a stump grants a license to check out of the game.

Well, that should be a relief for the maples. You could imagine what the answer could help tell us... Maybe send him a PM?

[Lego Spy]

Yes, I have. So? It's quite a different site from this one.

From what I can tell, they play mafia pretty much the same way as here.

Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

For contradictions and scummy posts.

[badboytje88]

So in your opinion, anyone who has differing beliefs to you is scum? You're scum yourself, mate

Vote: Peter Cedar because he's just useless.

Well thanks a lot but Hazels affiliation is crystal clear. Saying otherwise is just stupid.

[Dragonfire]

Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

The cases against Adelaide and Sue both seem to be strong ones to follow up on.

But not the case against Chester? Gotcha.

Haven't you been saying that you're not a newbie? I don't get it, are you doing yet another reversal? You've said you played on other websites with a janitor role, and now you're trying to claim you're a noob again. I don't get it.

From what I can tell, they play mafia pretty much the same way as here.

Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

For contradictions and scummy posts.

Let me get this straight. I have played before on two different sites.

1. MafiaScum - I have played two games on this site. Neither game had a janitor or a miller. I have not read the wiki pages on millers or janitors.

2. epicmafia - This site is very, very different from Eurobricks. Games are over in less than half an hour, and are comprised of fewer players. I have played with both miller and janitor on epicmafia, but as I said, the site is very different and I don't know how to play miller on forum mafia games. Don't believe me? Check out epicmafia and see for yourself.

3. I have read several recent Mafia games on Eurobricks.

4. Despite all this, I consider myself a newbie to forum mafia.

Well thanks a lot but Hazels affiliation is crystal clear. Saying otherwise is just stupid.

So I'm "just stupid". Excuse me? You're voting me because I'm "just stupid" and I think Hazel was town?

I can't believe this. Here are three blatantly obvious scum (Nash, Chester and Peter) who can't be bothered to make cases against me, are just voting with the bandwagon, and are just copying what other people say.

This game has turned into "Simon Says". Literally.

(I'm not implying that Simon is scum, just that a lot of people, namely those I have mentioned in this post, just blindly follow Simon and don't bother scumhunting for themselves. They're either complete sheep, or Maples.)

[Lego Spy]

But not the case against Chester? Gotcha.

What did I do that's so out-of-this-world scummy?

[Duvors]

Hypocrite

How? I never made that excuse once this whole game, check if you like.

Oh I see.

I remember a few townies doing this in a House of Cards forest, and they were lynched because of it. I don't think it's alignment indicative since mainly only newbs do it.

In fact, after responding to me with that charming phrase you go and do it again. Brilliant.

[Dragonfire]

What did I do that's so out-of-this-world scummy?

There was that whole Day One business with your vote. You then lurked, fillered and bandwagoned your way through the rest of the game. Not to mention your scummy twisting of Jack's words yesterday (yes, I'm aware that Hazel did this too).

How? I never made that excuse once this whole game, check if you like.

Sorry, my bad. I swear you did somewhere though...

[Duvors]

1. MafiaScum - I have played two games on this site. Neither game had a janitor or a miller. I have not read the wiki pages on millers or janitors.

2. epicmafia - This site is very, very different from Eurobricks. Games are over in less than half an hour, and are comprised of fewer players. I have played with both miller and janitor on epicmafia, but as I said, the site is very different and I don't know how to play miller on forum mafia games. Don't believe me? Check out epicmafia and see for yourself.

3. I have read several recent Mafia games on Eurobricks.

4. Despite all this, I consider myself a newbie to forum mafia.

That is still no excuse for not looking it up on the wiki.

I can't believe this. Here are three blatantly obvious scum (Nash, Chester and Peter) who can't be bothered to make cases against me, are just voting with the bandwagon, and are just copying what other people say.

Peter is more 'can't be bothered' than 'scum', annoying yes but not an active opponent. But don't worry, the living players will vote for your buddies tomorrow and the day after and then it'll all be over...

Sorry, my bad. I swear you did somewhere though...

Common mistake.

[Dragonfire]

After rereading Peter's previous games, I think it's more playstyle than scumminess that pings me.

Unvote: Peter Cedar (badboytje88)

Vote: Chester Chestnut (Lego Spy)

[Scaevola]

STUMP Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

Berty's refusal to consider Hazel's designation as maple is very incriminating. In doing so, he's attempting to dismantle a very sound theory that a concealed alignment= maple. Furthermore, he's merely attempting to reinvigorate the controversy over the concealed affiliations. The established thinking on the subject had really negated the insidious conflict over the alignments, wherefore Berty is trying to stoke the embers of the maple utility.

[Hinckley]

That is still no excuse for not looking it up on the wiki.

This is a great point. I know it's been made several times and I might even be repeating myself but why send a PM to a player you don't know and have never played with to ask what to do when there's a resource like Mafiawiki...or at least 4 other people you have played with...

This had to have been a message from another Scum player, "Dragonfire, claim to Hinckley. Everyone always does. Be proactive."

After rereading Peter's previous games, I think it's more playstyle than scumminess that pings me.

Unvote: Peter Cedar (badboytje88)

Vote: Chester Chestnut (Lego Spy)

You read all of his game? You could've just switched to Chester. That's all you've done is tell us he's Scum. We'll be sure to lynch him if the Scum janitor your innocent Townie corpse. :wink:

[TheLazyChicken]

3. I have read several recent Mafia games on Eurobricks.

I'm pretty sure there has been one[\b] recent game that's had a miller, the miller claimed early on day 1 and he explained the role...

You even admit to have read Cosplay Party because you said Bobby was acting just like he did in that game.

Your miller claim late in the day also struck me as odd now that I'm a stump.

STUMP Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

Also you have been acting a bit different than you did in Excalibur TNG.

Oops didn't mean to bold all the words, sorry

[mostlytechnic]

Larry, pretty sure I already checked the archives on the topic of millers and they've happened more than once.

Yep, here it was:

Well, I took a quick check because I know I've seen millers around the forest several times lately. Cosplay school (which about 10 of us were participants in) had one. Red Menace had one. Silver City had one. And besides, if I got a role I wasn't familiar with, step 1 would be google "role name mafia" and the mafiascum wiki page is the first thing to come up. Now, all that said, I do think the claim is legit and I trust that Berty is town.

Obviously, I've changed my thoughts from that last sentence...

[Walter Kovacs]

Voting Update:

Berty Birch (Dragonfire) - 11 (mostlytechnic, Scubacarrot, fhomess, Bob, Hinckley, TinyPiesRUs, Fugazi, Tamamono, badboytje88, Zepher, Lego Spy)

Chester Chestnut (Lego Spy) - 1 (Dragonfire)

There are 22 Hours remaining in Day 5. It takes 7 Votes to lynch.

[MagPiesRUs]

Generally from past experience, people who flip-flop on opinions are considered scummy. Although the evidence suggests otherwise, I still think that Hazel was town. You're going to lynch me either way, so I don't really care at this point.

Is that why you're trying not to flip-flop now? It's ok to flip-flop as an oak. Oaks can't know everything, so when new evidence appears, it makes sense for us to change our minds about people. It is odd that you're so dead-set that Hazel is a townie. Why would an Oak be so sure of this, when you have no concrete evidence to suggest Hazel is town? It really sounds like you're just sticking with the "Hazel is an oak" viewpoint because in your mind, consistency=oaky and flip-floppy=mapley.

[Hinckley]

6.Simon votes Jack (1)

7.Hazel votes Jack (2)

8. Chester votes Jack

[Lego Spy]

8. Chester votes Jack

I never voted for Jack.

[Hinckley]

I never voted for Jack.

Oh, so you didn't. It felt like you did. Sorry.

Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

Now let's move on to better things. Most trees who are not Maples agree by now that the "janitored" players are scum. The suspicious interactions between two janitored trees and Hazel led us to the lynch

SNIP

Another token vote when the momentum against Catarina was strong and there was no chance whatsoever of stopping that lynch from happening.

Just some food for thought, as today's lynch is pretty much sealed and we're looking forward to lynching more scum on Day 6.

Don't forget how Nash started out voicing these suspicions on Day Four:

A vengeful tree isn't strictly an oaky role though. It's possible to have a vengeful scum. What makes you 100% sure Simon is scum? Because from where I've been standing, the accusations he made against you made sense. I don't necessarily agree that these accusations prove that you're scum, but I can definitely see the logic behind Simon's thinking.

Even if William is a vengeful scum, shouldn't this plan still be followed? 1 town for 1 scum isn't bad. Unless one gets janitored. Maybe that was the plan? This sounds a lot like you want to keep Simon around.

The "contradiction" accusation does make sense. You said the asterisks were BS, but that Catarina's behaviour was scummy. I don't think anyone voted for her because of the asterisks, they voted for her primarily because they found her posts scummy. You can't act as if the vote against Catarina hinged on asterisks, and take the high ground because of it. As for the fishing: everyone knows that Simon is paranoid.

I highly doubt that's going to happen again. I'm sure the stumps have learned their lesson. It is a little odd how much you and Bruce have been trying to discredit the codes and the stumps, expecting the stumps to do the exact thing we've complained about endlessly again.

I have felt for days that the codes are a sort of BS non-helpful thing a Maple would suggest to appear helpful but really confuse the town. Your attitude towards Simon weirds me out too - here you call him out, but earlier you tried to pull him out of harm's way by not having him vote for a possible "vengeful tree" - which is a claim I feel obliged to believe, because if not wouldn't it just be a lynch against him for no real reason? It feels like you're trying to distant yourself but also protect him.

I think it's time for Adelaide or Simon to go. I think many oaks agree with me. Stop voting people off for asterisks, starting getting real stuff done. Simon called on us yesterday to stop only focusing on those younger saplings and start to focus on people who know how to play this sort of game. I agree.

I have gone back and looked over Adelaide's activity over the last few days. It is still very questionable. She put a lot of effort into developing the codes, which SEEMS to have been genuine effort (she explained them at least 100 times to Simon!) but what have the codes really gotten us? She's also been close to the hammer of a band wagon three times. Could easily be a scum pushing that final push, but seeming reluctant. I may vote for her.

This is after a couple of days of saying how suspicious he is of me and Bruce but never placing a vote for us.

So, indeed, all three have either voted for each other or made weak little pokes at each other like ^ that. All the Scum in one basket, perhaps? Sounds too good to be true, but also looks extremely suspicious.

[MagPiesRUs]

So, indeed, all three have either voted for each other or made weak little pokes at each other like ^ that. All the Scum in one basket, perhaps? Sounds too good to be true, but also looks extremely suspicious.

Unfortunately all of these pokes seem to involve me, so I know that Sammy's theory is wrong. It looks like you're starting to get tunnel vision on this. I can't say I trust Nash or Sue though, just not for that reason.

Sue, why did you wait almost 24 hours to vote for Hazel after he self-voted, when you have later claimed that his move was one of the scummiest actions possible?

[Dragonfire]

I'm pretty sure there has been one[\b] recent game that's had a miller, the miller claimed early on day 1 and he explained the role...

You even admit to have read Cosplay Party because you said Bobby was acting just like he did in that game.

Your miller claim late in the day also struck me as odd now that I'm a stump.

STUMP Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)

Also you have been acting a bit different than you did in Excalibur TNG.

Oops didn't mean to bold all the words, sorry

I skimread Cosplay Party to get a meta on some people in this game. It was about Day 2 or 3, I think. I only focused on certain players' comments and roles -- I was aware that someone had claimed miller, but I didn't look back at the claim. In fact, I thought that claiming miller first thing on Day 1 was stupid.

Yes, I'm acting different than I did in Excalibur TNG. In that game, everyone was new and people were just randomly bandwagoning townies. Someone had to be aggressive and take the lead; I did and I was killed very early. Now, most people are highly experienced so I'm changing my playstyle and keeping a lower profile.

Is that why you're trying not to flip-flop now? It's ok to flip-flop as an oak. Oaks can't know everything, so when new evidence appears, it makes sense for us to change our minds about people. It is odd that you're so dead-set that Hazel is a townie. Why would an Oak be so sure of this, when you have no concrete evidence to suggest Hazel is town? It really sounds like you're just sticking with the "Hazel is an oak" viewpoint because in your mind, consistency=oaky and flip-floppy=mapley.

That probably is the reason for me sticking to my guns. I know that being openly worried about how you will come across to everyone else and what reads they will get on you is scummy, so I haven't done that until now. Oaks are worried about looking scummy too. So yes, that is spot on.

[Hinckley]

Unfortunately all of these pokes seem to involve me, so I know that Sammy's theory is wrong. It looks like you're starting to get tunnel vision on this. I can't say I trust Nash or Sue though, just not for that reason.

Tunnel vision? I admit I get tunnel vision. Case in point, my Hammerer theory. But, have you noticed this day thread is only 5 pages long? I've been swamped with school and haven't had the time to dig in the way I have in previous days. I haven't had enough time to really tunnel my vision on anything but I think Sammy makes a great point. You, Nash and Sue have been wrapped up in a little triangle of unjustified and seemingly half-hearted accusations. The dead Scum and Berty seem to have engaged in similar behavior. I think we have a good trail of bread crumbs to follow here. During the night I'd like to look back and analyze everyone's reactions to Barry's weird claim.

Speaking of Barry, somebody was confused about this in private and I wanted to clarify in case anybody else was confused, there is a serial killer among us. At least that's what it appears. Who knows what is possible in Stump-land? But Occam's Razor, we have a serial killer. There was a third kill on Night 3, Barry's killer (not Bobby, the vig killed Bobby). And last night, the vig did not kill and I can't imagine the Scum took out Maggie who had a good amount of suspicion revolving around her inactivity.

Checking the rules:

1. Each player will be given a character to play. That character will be aligned with either the Oaks or the Maples. To win the game, the Oaks must lynch or kill off all of the Maples, while the Maples need to outnumber the voting members of the Oaks. Any Third Party characters will have their own win conditions.

It doesn't say we need to kill off the Maples and any third-party, so the SK can win with either side. Right now, that's bad news for us if we get down to six people with three Scum left, the existence of a Serial Killer tips the Scum number above ours. If we lynch another Scum today, SK please come into the light, we can give you some targets to speed us towards our win.

This has been bouncing around in my head all night and there are other possibilities. Hell, two investigators, stumps... I mulled around the possibility that there are two Scum factions. The Maples and some sort of rouge[sic] tree. Without alignments revealed we wouldn't know we had two sets of enemies and they wouldn't know at first. On Day Two when Alastair wasn't revealed, one Scum team would realize the Scum don't get revealed and the other faction would wonder "Why the hell would the Town have a janitor?" I even thought maybe Chester and Hazel were on opposite sides and they had used their role cop on Chester and that's why Hazel and Berty were so persistent about lynching him. Bus an unknown Scum team to appear like Townies. Berty's post about me leading two bandwagons on Oaks still bugs me. Like lynching Chester was going to guarantee a non-stump in the morning.

But, I think that theory belongs up on a shelf with my Hammerer theory. These sort of drifting-off thoughts are the reason I wake up thinking one of my alarm clocks is lying to me and I have to figure out which one.

[Hinckley]

Wahoo! Bonus time, party!! Woo!