Yakuza Family - Day 1

[CMP]

How is my note vague?

The note you were pointing out isn't concrete is all. Then again, nothing is Day One.

Besides, I can not bring myself to really believe that vision of yours. For years I have taught my sons to stand united, even if their paths might seem to lead them away from each other. I do not believe my boys would ever betray me - or their Grandfather...

You act like it could only be one of your sons.

[Scubacarrot]

I think you know what I meant, my dear Emi . I was referring to the fact that Yasu is... inexperienced with the dealings of our family, and I was pointing out the possibility of this being the reason for the statement made before, but you make a valid point, and it definitely is something we should be pursuing, it is, quite frankly, our only lead for the moment

[Brickdoctor]

The note you were pointing out isn't concrete is all. Then again, nothing is Day One.

So you meant to say that Yasu's statement isn't concrete evidence? Yeah, I agree with that. It's the only thing that's come close to setting off alarms on my Scumdar, though. (not that I myself am experienced enough to claim to have an accurate Scumdar, and it's still very early in the Day)

I think you know what I meant, my dear Emi . I was referring to the fact that Yasu is... inexperienced with the dealings of our family, and I was pointing out the possibility of this being the reason for the statement made before, but you make a valid point, and it definitely is something we should be pursuing, it is, quite frankly, our only lead for the moment

Ah, okay.

[Rumble Strike]

So, did we all see those genies or was that just in Great Grandfather Lloyd's vision?

And in time honoured tradition, shall we discus what we think would happen if there is no lynch?

[MetroiD]

Oh Nobuo, you have promised me that for years now, I have begun to fear it will never happen, are our sons really up to take over the family?

Now is the time to see whether that is indeed the case or not. Father and I are not getting younger, but we are still here standing our ground and defending what we have built with the price of so much blood, sweat and tears. (Or at least I am; while Father is busy dreaming of mermaids.)

It is time we saw how the young ones are going to take care of problems - and, based on that, what the future holds for the Yakuza family.

And Chieko my darling, it turns out it's a good thing I did not take you on an ocean cruise last summer, all things considered. I do have big plans for us for next year, though. Just be patient with me, as you always have been, dear. You know that it is always worth it.

You act like it could only be one of your sons.

Shizuko - my children are the pillars on which this whole family is based. You of all people should know that. To me, you are all my children, but I also know that each crack can lead to the collapse of the entire structure. Yes, I have only had the opportunity to teach my sons in the true ways of a Yakuza, which is why I always hold them responsible - but that is because I want them to follow their path with our family's well-being guiding them at all times.

Speaking of paths - patience is a virtue which seems to be lost on some members of our extended family who have rushed to defend themselves before we've even had our afternoon green tea. Let us see where that path shall take them. May the Kami guide us to the light!

[Scubacarrot]

So, did we all see those genies or was that just in Great Grandfather Lloyd's vision?

And in time honoured tradition, shall we discus what we think would happen if there is no lynch?

Well, my dear Akio, I can't find anything in the rules our family's traditions, but it will be a day with no CHANCE of lynching an enemy of our family, so that is something to consider.

[Peanuts]

This day has just started, I haven't even got my herbal tea yet and you've already talked that much. I'm glad we're such a big family, but bigger families make it harder for us to find these honorless traitors.

It appears some of you have already come up with something suspicious. I must say, I don't think it's a scumtell, since scum would usually try to avoid attention like this. So she obviously tried to defend herself even before she was attacked, even before we started to look for the Mutineers among us, although any scum should have known we wouldn't attack someone for being quiet early in the game, since there are different time zones sleep-wake cycles, so nobody would have cared anyway. So, therefore, if there is at least one experienced (or at least logically thinking) scum member they wouldn't have approved of her defending herself in the discussion thread yesterday in the evening. So, I myself think she is just being a paranoid, self-centered, but nonetheless loyal member of the Yakuza (no offence). Why paranoid and self-centered? Because a Yakuza or Mutineer who's not paranoid won't assume they would be accused, and a Yakuza who's not self-centered won't really care if they are accused, they'll simply do their best to defend themselves after reading the accusation and if they fail, they'll die in honor. So they certainly won't care about being under suspicion, either, especially if there's no reason for them to be suspected. They will care about the Family, not about themselves.

Ah, yes, that's something else I forgot to note: Townies shouldn't be afraid of suspicion. If they just be themselves, they'll most likely appear Townie since they are Townie. They should know that suspicion is the only way to root out the Scum and realize that true Townies initially suspect everyone other than themselves. (unless god specifically tells them that they can trust someone else, of course) They should expect to be suspected and realize that there is no reason for them to fear suspicion. They don't need to try to act in a way that avoids suspicion. If they need to try to act innocent, they're guilty.

I agree with your premiss, but not with your conclusion. In an ideal case, a true Yakuza (why are you talking about "Townies" anyway, we're in a temple, not in a town ) will not try to act innocent, as I said above, but sometimes young aspirants, who still have to learn, care more about themselves than about the Family. They fear being killed so much, that they try to act innocant, and don't realize how they harm the Family that way.

[Tamamono]

Aw kuso! That's the crappiest, anti-town rule in the book. It was introduced by one of Father's elders in order to 'spur action', and has never worked, which is why he took it out his last time around. It's a shame Father has chosen to adopt it this time around. It makes days much more conservative and dull, since nobody wants to waste their vote by getting it locked. It also helps scum, since they can waste their vote by getting it locked, and have a convenient excuse as to why they wasted it.

I agree. One of the town's biggest assets at the beginning of the situation is the ability to overturn a bandwagon in a matter of minutes. But we can't do that if we only have one unvote!

Oh Grandfather, won't you please take that rule out? We'd be eternally grateful.

And in time honoured tradition, shall we discus what we think would happen if there is no lynch?

I see no reason to. While there doesn't appear to be any penalty for not voting, that doesn't change the fact that not making a lynch today is detrimental to the town.

[fhomess]

Well, my dear Akio, I can't find anything in the rules our family's traditions, but it will be a day with no CHANCE of lynching an enemy of our family, so that is something to consider.

Chances may be small, but there as long as their are traitors among us, we have a chance of choosing the traitorious.

I agree. One of the town's biggest assets at the beginning of the situation is the ability to overturn a bandwagon in a matter of minutes. But we can't do that if we only have one unvote!

Perhaps our family is learning the ways of self control. A well placed punch can be far more effective than many jabs at random. My students are always struggling to learn to be patient and wait for their opening. In time, it will reveal itself if we probe for weakness. Punch and counterpunch.

[Nightshroud99]

So, did we all see those genies or was that just in Great Grandfather Lloyd's vision?

And in time honoured tradition, shall we discus what we think would happen if there is no lynch?

We need to vote someone out, if not, the Mutineers may get the upper hand.

Of course.. there is the strong possibility of lynching a member of our family, which would be unfortunate. Yet, the information that we may glean from who voted for the lynchee, if they were one of ours, will prove most valuable in destroying the rest of these traitors.

Then there is also the possibility of getting one of them right away.

But still, it's a wild goose chase right now. But a lynch is necessary nonetheless.

Anyone want some Nigiri? Freshly made!

[Peanuts]

Chances may be small, but there as long as their are traitors among us, we have a chance of choosing the traitorious.

I believe, what she means, is, that we won't be able to kill one of those traitors if we don't vote.

While I myself usually prefer not to lynch someone with few to no evidence on the first day, but since no majority is required and there's so many of us, I am quite sure that we will get a conviction today.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Mutineers? Really? Sounds much too pirate-y. Let's hurry up and vote off anyone with an eye patch so we can all get out of here. I've got exams to study for.

[Rumble Strike]

You all make very good points, which I do agree with. I just opened it up as a topic for debate, as we do not have much to go on at this time.

[Peanuts]

Mutineers? Really? Sounds much too pirate-y. Let's hurry up and vote off anyone with an eye patch so we can all get out of here. I've got exams to study for.

Nobody's wearing an eyepatch, so why don't we start with the person wearing a sailor suit instead? I'd say that comes close enough

[CorneliusMurdock]

Nobody's wearing an eyepatch, so why don't we start with the person wearing a sailor suit instead? I'd say that comes close enough

Silly, this is my school uniform. Besides pirates don't wear uniforms. I've read history books, they were a ragtag group.

[Masked Builder]

Crazy grandfather and his genies. You are sure no one has slipped you anything right?

I've read plenty of books and on day 1 there is never a good lead, at least not usually. I would also expect there to be much to-ing and fro-ing.

[Brickdoctor]

And in time honoured tradition, shall we discus what we think would happen if there is no lynch?

I think it should be something to be used only as a last resort, if there is absolutely nothing to go on. Otherwise, you hand the decision of who to kill first to the Scum and deprive yourself of a chance to analyze voting patterns.

So, therefore, if there is at least one experienced (or at least logically thinking) scum member they wouldn't have approved of her defending herself in the discussion thread yesterday in the evening.

I'm sure it's not impossible that if that was the statement of an inexperienced Scum, it was posted before consulting any more experienced members of the Scum.

I agree with your premiss, but not with your conclusion. In an ideal case, a true Yakuza (why are you talking about "Townies" anyway, we're in a temple, not in a town ) will not try to act innocent, as I said above, but sometimes young aspirants, who still have to learn, care more about themselves than about the Family. They fear being killed so much, that they try to act innocant, and don't realize how they harm the Family that way.

I do realize that there are some inexperienced and paranoid Townies Templies. And that was not the rule of thumb on which I based my conclusion. I don't think that Yasu was trying to act like a Templie when she told us not to suspect her. I think that she was afraid of being suspected.

Basically, my train of thought went like this:

1. 
   
2. Yasu is afraid of suspicion.
   
3. True Townies don't need to act like Townies and try to act in a way that avoids suspicion.
   
4. Townies realize that every Townie should suspect everyone else at this point in the situation. (unless god specifically tells them they can trust someone)
   
5. Therefore, Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected.
   
6. Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected, and Yasu is afraid of being suspected, therefore, Yasu's behavior is not that of a Townie.

All that does, of course, assume that Yasu knows what she's doing. It wouldn't be the first and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last time in these situations if she was lynched for that and it turned out that she was merely a Templie who didn't know what she was doing. However, it is something to consider if anything else comes up against Yasu, and, if the time to vote comes and there's nothing else to go on, it's better to risk losing a Templie that doesn't know what she's doing than a Templie that does.

[Masked Builder]

Basically, my train of thought went like this:

1. 
   
2. Yasu is afraid of suspicion.
   
3. True Townies don't need to act like Townies and try to act in a way that avoids suspicion.
   
4. Townies realize that every Townie should suspect everyone else at this point in the situation. (unless god specifically tells them they can trust someone)
   
5. Therefore, Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected.
   
6. Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected, and Yasu is afraid of being suspected, therefore, Yasu's behavior is not that of a Townie.

All that does, of course, assume that Yasu knows what she's doing. It wouldn't be the first and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last time in these situations if she was lynched for that and it turned out that she was merely a Templie who didn't know what she was doing. However, it is something to consider if anything else comes up against Yasu, and, if the time to vote comes and there's nothing else to go on, it's better to risk losing a Templie that doesn't know what she's doing than a Templie that does.

I heartily agree with you daughter. You train of thought makes sense to me. But I think she should be given some time to speak for herself.

[Brickdoctor]

But I think she should be given some time to speak for herself.

Of course. That's one of the benefits of laying everything out and bringing forward suspicions early in the Day. Yasu will have more than enough time to make a convincing defense. (and if she doesn't, at this time, I know where my vote's going)

[WhiteFang]

This is perplexing.. Thought we are back for a family reunion and it ended up there are some mutineers among us who wish to see our family fall. If what Grandpa foresees is true, we certainly have lots of challenges to look at, including re-examine our own family ties to establish whether we are indeed related by blood.

It's unfortunate to see our 'big' family getting in the state of distrust and first day is never easy.

[Peanuts]

I'm sure it's not impossible that if that was the statement of an inexperienced Scum, it was posted before consulting any more experienced members of the Scum.

You're right, she could have made an arbitrary act. This statement wasn't a bright idea, no matter if she's Yakuza or a traitor, so I guess I can't argue with common sence here.

I do realize that there are some inexperienced and paranoid Townies Templies. And that was not the rule of thumb on which I based my conclusion. I don't think that Yasu was trying to act like a Templie when she told us not to suspect her. I think that she was afraid of being suspected.

Basically, my train of thought went like this:

1. 
   
2. Yasu is afraid of suspicion.
   
3. True Townies don't need to act like Townies and try to act in a way that avoids suspicion.
   
4. Townies realize that every Townie should suspect everyone else at this point in the situation. (unless god specifically tells them they can trust someone)
   
5. Therefore, Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected.
   
6. Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected, and Yasu is afraid of being suspected, therefore, Yasu's behavior is not that of a Townie.

All that does, of course, assume that Yasu knows what she's doing. It wouldn't be the first and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last time in these situations if she was lynched for that and it turned out that she was merely a Templie who didn't know what she was doing. However, it is something to consider if anything else comes up against Yasu, and, if the time to vote comes and there's nothing else to go on, it's better to risk losing a Templie that doesn't know what she's doing than a Templie that does.

If she actually knows what she's doing, I must agree her behaviour would be explicitly anti-town. But if she does, her statement was a game tactic, so she would have been playing the game in the discussion thread, which is highly reprehensible in my opinion.

I myself don't think she is aware of what she's doing, while she is indeed afraid of suspicion, propably wrongfully thinking "suspicion equals death equals losing". Such thinking can be harmful for the Family, which is why I agree that she wouldn't be a great loss.

Though I must say, I'm a bit surprised about this all, since I thought Yasu was a bit more experienced, but I don't have any other explanation. I'd really like to hear what she has to say about her motives behind that declaration.

[WhiteFang]

If she actually knows what she's doing, I must agree her behaviour would be explicitly anti-town. But if she does, her statement was a game tactic, so she would have been playing the game in the discussion thread, which is highly reprehensible in my opinion.

Ahem, hands off the table. All of our playing cards are on the this very "table"...

Anyone who plays dirty especially out of here, is extremely not cool...

[Capt. Redblade]

I think it should be something to be used only as a last resort, if there is absolutely nothing to go on. Otherwise, you hand the decision of who to kill first to the Scum and deprive yourself of a chance to analyze voting patterns.

I'm sure it's not impossible that if that was the statement of an inexperienced Scum, it was posted before consulting any more experienced members of the Scum.

I do realize that there are some inexperienced and paranoid Townies Templies. And that was not the rule of thumb on which I based my conclusion. I don't think that Yasu was trying to act like a Templie when she told us not to suspect her. I think that she was afraid of being suspected.

Basically, my train of thought went like this:

1. 
   
2. Yasu is afraid of suspicion.
   
3. True Townies don't need to act like Townies and try to act in a way that avoids suspicion.
   
4. Townies realize that every Townie should suspect everyone else at this point in the situation. (unless god specifically tells them they can trust someone)
   
5. Therefore, Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected.
   
6. Townies shouldn't be afraid of being suspected, and Yasu is afraid of being suspected, therefore, Yasu's behavior is not that of a Townie.

All that does, of course, assume that Yasu knows what she's doing. It wouldn't be the first and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last time in these situations if she was lynched for that and it turned out that she was merely a Templie who didn't know what she was doing. However, it is something to consider if anything else comes up against Yasu, and, if the time to vote comes and there's nothing else to go on, it's better to risk losing a Templie that doesn't know what she's doing than a Templie that does.

Those are interesting points, Mother. I think we should hear what Yasu has to say, of course, but that's something of a lead right there.

Sorry I haven't said anything, but I'm still eating my steak, and Mother taught me never to speak with my mouth full.

[def]

Please keep in mind, it could have been an inoccuous joke as well. I myself have proclaimed my innocence purely out of boredom in other lives. Allow me to demonstrate:

I, Norio, being of sound mind and body, hereby claim to be the Towniest of towns.

I see no Zephers around, so I feel some confidence his wont get me lynched today

[JimBee]

Forgive me if I missed this, but is there any apparent significance in the five genies? Grandpa had a vision about them, and that came true, so is it just to confirm his uh... foresight?