Kumbbl

42000: yep, well and accourate designed, well done and realistic suspension - but now the main drawback (as with all lego F1 racers): no gearbox - and sorry, a supercar or F1 racer without working and well done gearbox is not realistic (for that reason the 8070 is IMHO not a supercar - i will never buy it)... with respect to gearbox the B-model of 8880 would be the most real racer (even if just 2 speed) but unfortunatelly its suspension ist not really a F1-suspension and the look is more Indycar than F1-like ... (BTW: though i like the 8880 F1-model most of all Indy/F1-racers because it is playable, looks good (despite fully studded) and has well done features... 9396: a great model, i love it but i do not know enough about Helicopters to judge if it is realistic or not... the design is real, exactly the look of a rescue heli... For me this is another quite realistic set: 8284 tractor (Image from Blakbirds technopedia linked) The look is great and very realistic and the functions actually too - apart from the fact that lifting implements should be done via hydraulic rsp. with lego via pneumatic and not by worm-gear - but overall: not bad ... And not to forget one of my clandestine favorite and most beloved sets: 851 (image from Blakbirds Technopedia linked) Well, admited, of course not really realstic functions - but this look is very very realistic

i agree with you concerning the need of some new parts for even more realism (as you said: longer pneumatics, different sized clutch gears are IMO the most important ones)... 8258: yes, one of my favorite sets, a really great set, but concerning realism i would rank it lower than these mentioned above, because it uses the LAs instead of pneumatic... and no, i do not want to trigger another LA vs. Pneumatic discussion - i personally prefer in most cases pneumatic cause of its realism and the better working without PF (IMHO LAs are unplayable without motorization)..over and out for LA vs PN - so overall i would rank the 8258 in my Top 5 sets but not when realism is the main focus...

Thank goodness, now my beloved 8868 can still stay on top And cause of the lack of pneumatic rotary actuators the "simulation" with two linear ones is still something i call real... Thanks, Blakbird, for clarification....

i hope this is meant ironically.. because otherwise i disagree: it depends on the focus - for supercars i agree - here is a working steering wheel essential - but the focus of the 8868 is completely different... But the pneumatic slewing is a good point: well, probably not very realistic but i'm not a slewing pro...probably the lego designers wanted to demonstrate the possibilities of pneumatic... but you are right: not really real.. hmm, maybe we have to rank down 8868 to the third or four place therefore? Hmm......

I forgot one The Pneumatic Excavator from Jennifer Clark - i will not rank it because it is not an official set but a MOC and therefore somehow out of competition... (image from http://www.genuinemodels.com/jcb.htm) IMHO we can not ignore this outstanding model when "most realism" comes in discussion: It represents in a perfect sense the slogan "Technic as in reality" in each criteria: overall design and function principle - as good as it gets. Just my 2ct for this MOC... P.S. personally i would rank this model equally to the 8868 at first place...

Hi, at the beginning of Lego technic the advertising slogan of the new technic line in Germany was "Technic wie in Wirklichkeit" (eng: technic as in reality)... so i'm wondering which sets would we rate in a retrospection as best "ambassadors" for this slogan: Which ones are the true real ones? Here are mine: First place: 8868 Air Tech Claw Rig (image from Blakbirds Technopedia linked) Reason: This is realism pure, from the first till to the last brick. The blocky design is pure american truck style, the pneumatic design is 100% as in real hydraulic trucks, the operator panels are located as in reality, even the chuggingsound of the compressor is real. IMHO there is really no room for any enhancements (maybe some pneumatic outtriggers, but that's all) - Conclusion: This is not only excellent, it is as good as it gets - this truck shows children how the real thing works. Second place: 8455 Backhoe (image again from Blakbirds Technopedia linked) Reason: Like with the 8868 this backhoe is real in all criterias: design, function principle, proportions. It's a hard decision between 8868 and 8455 which one is first and which one is second - the compressor of the 8868 tips the balance Third Place: 8110 Unimog U400 (Image from www.1000steine.com linked) Reason: More or less the same as with the 8868 and 8455. There is nothing which is not real. It shows children perfectly how the different parts of an unimog work... Concerning to reality the Unimog could also be frist or second place but i have ranked down it as third place cause of some design flaws (crappy steering, not well placed battery box so the mog hangs always slightly to the right side, too flimsy and tottery crane construction - look at the 8868 how this can and should be) Fourth place: 8459 Front loader (image from Blakbirds technopedia linked) Reason: More or less the same as with the 8455: There is nothing which is not real... steering, all-wheel-drive, exceptional well done design, the pneumatic functions - perfect reality. These four (8868, 8455, 8110 and 8459) are IMHO far away from all other sets concerning realism. My Fifth place: 8421 Mobile crane (image from Blakbirds technopedia linked) Reason: it is in almost all functions real: The boom lifts via pneumatic (and at least if boosted by two additional cylinders it works also very well), the simultaniously and motorized double telescoping is very nifty and also real the synchronized winch seems to be a real feature, engine localization is real, 3-axle steering with different steering radius is real, the overall design is very real.... To summarize: This model also shows children very well how a mobile crane works in reality Sixth Place: 8880 or 8448 supercar (both images from Blakbirds technopedia linked) Reason: Both offer almost all car-functions in a real manner - each of them with pro and cons: The selector gate of the 8880 and therefore the kind of gear shifting of the 8880 is much more realistic as all other other supercars (incl. the 8448) - on the other side the engine localisation of the 8880 is not really realistic, here wins the 8448, which as also the more realistic overall design. Double whichbone suspension is very good solved in both, also the dog box gearbox (here known as synchronized transmission ;-))... Both cars are not hyperrealistic but both show children very well how the most important functions of a car work - my overall favorite is the 8880 cause of its all wheel steering, even if this is nowadays a quite seldom car feature - but it nevertheless it shows well how it can work... Besides these 7 models IMHO there aren't others which fully represents the slogan "technic as in reality"... Thoughts?

Thanks a lot for the comparison! Hmm, there are instructions for the GT car because i have them: a 127 page PDF... but even after 30 min racking my brain i can't remember the site from which i have downloaded it... If i remember i will post it here.... ah, well,. here we go - V2 instructions for the GT car: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40561&st=25#entry1244183

One more candidate: The GT car of Nat Kuipers, also build from 8466+8458 How would this compete with the Ninja supercar? which one would you prefer? For me at least exterior facing of the GT seems to be more straight forward, cleaner, more "quiet" and smooth, if you understand what i mean... Is the GT less complex to build or missing some features compared to the Ninja Convertible? Thanks a lot.

What about the copyright? suppose i have found an online vendor who prints stickers with uploaded image-files (e.g. some of the lego sticker images, posted above)... is this allowed to upload images of lego stickers for the purpose printing a new sticker for only private usage or am i breaching the copyright of lego for these stickers?

Interesting topic - especially for old set owners... does anybody know a third party vendor who offers reprinted stickers based on an image-file? This would be great... a german one would be even greater

thanks for the hint and the offering for the CAD file... but one question before: There are two versions of instructions for the Ninja out there - i have currently downloaded the v2-version from rebrickable (http://rebrickable.com/mocs/nathanael/supercar), which is obviously different from the first version (much bigger PDF-file, more building steps etc...)... so my question: do you refering to this v2-version? BTW: probably my lego technic build skills are high enough to correct some errors or invisible parts... For the CAD-file: via search function i haven't found a thread which helps for this topic... there fore a short question: Could anyboby please give me a pointer where i get some starter informations which software is needed for handling these CAD-files best? Thanks a lot!

thanks to all for responses..especially Blakbird for its very detailed recommendation... Well, i have 8466 as well as 8458, so i think i will start with the Ninja Convertible... i read the interview with Kuipers at TB and i found his statements concerning alternate models very intersting - i think building something new with a fixed parts palette is quite challenging so i want to see this "alternate" model from these two sets... I don't care about the "modernity" of parts or building methods - all technic building methods and parts have its pro and cons and are great for me... so a mixture of studded and studless (as with the cars of Jurgen) sounds very promising...so probably i will try one of these next (BTW: any preferences between the Sunbeam and the Koenigsegg?) - after building the Ninja... And the Vampire will bring to a close my supercar MOC-series... i think these together will be a nice collection again many thanks for this very helpful response!

indeed - this Ford GT is quite astonishing - but without BI more or less un-rebuildable...

well, i see - so i venture a prognosis: i will get at least 6 different recommendations so i will be as wise as before so i add another criterium: which one is the most complex build?

Hi, after building all official supercars of Lego technic i'm looking for a challenging MOC i can build... currently my short-list consists of these available MOCs: Nat Kuipers Ninja Supercar: Jurgen Krooshoops Koenigsegg and Sunbeam Supercar: Crownkillers Vampire GT: Nico71's roadster: Nat Kuipers Concept Car: For all of them there exists good instructions and all of them seem to me very well done cars for which i assume the building is a pleasure (BTW: Thanks to all for offering such professional building instructions!) But now my question to these people who have already build some of them: Which one would you recommend (concerning building challange, construction quality, playablity etc.) if you could only build exactly one of them (i know this is a hard and maybe impossible decision ) Thank you in advance! P.S. My own preference currently veers towards the Ninja supercar...but its only a very slightly preference...

Lipko, i can comprehend what you say - probably many people are similar minded concerning this topic - but it's also a fact that with current lego transmissions nothing is synchronized in the real meaning of this term - things are in mesh without any interruption - not more not less: some gears in mesh have nothing to do with synchronizing... at least in my opinion. But on the other side it is probably also wise making things not to complicated - so when today the term "synchronzied" has been established for these (actually unsynchronized) dog box transmissions then there is no need to change this... I'm just wondering so i opened this thread and question...

IMHO with current lego parts a real synchronized (ie. input and output shaft are equalized in speed temporary just for the shifting action) transmission is impossible.. but i admit i'm not a "professional" builder as Sariel or some others here...

ah, good explanation at this linked website - thank you for the link! so the correct denotion of a current lego gearbox (as used in most of the supercars) would be "Dog box transmission" - right?

Hi, after thinking a little bit about the realism of typical current lego gearboxes, ie. based on any combination of drivingrings and clutchgears (and regardless if sequential or not, becaue this doesn't matter), i came to the result, that "synchronized gearbox" (as often read here in many threads) is false, at least misleading, because: - In a real transmission gearbox the term "synchronized" means that the input and the output shaft are equalized in speed for the short time of the shifting action so the "dog clutch" (in lego this would be the drivingring) can catch the gear without any noise...this is typically achieved with so called "synchronizing-rings" - a typical current lego gearbox doesn't (and can not) equalize speed of input and output shafts for the shifting action cause of the lack of such synchronizing-rings So IMHO the denotion "synchronized gearbox" for a lego gearbox is somehow false, what i'm searching for is a good name for a "gears-are-always-in-mesh"-gearbox - this is also the main difference (and advantage) to the previous "crash"-gearboxes... Any thoughts rsp. ideas? Best regards

Blakbird, from a pure objective view: it's not correct and it's somehow also plagiarism... But from a more subjective view: I'm convinced that the ebay-seller has not used your text black-hearted but probably he/she has simple googled for a description of the 8880 and has found your site. Of course he/she should attribute your site but: I would say, you should stand above that... But overall this is a twilight zone, where it is hard to render a definite "white" or "black" judgement just my 2 ct...

Thank you guys for the link to rebrickable and the PM-offering...

Hi, has anybody out there a partlist of this supercar-MOC: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=79271 Or at least the partcount? Thanks a lot! best regards

Well, here is my technic collection: This is the complete set-list: And here most of them built and in in "real life": In the left upper corner you see the cover-model (blue excavator) of the book 8888 - IMHO a real twee model... The icons 8880 and 8455 i own 2 times so the really good b-model can be built for its own... The models 9395, 8069, 8258, 8043, 8431, 8466, 8858, 8485 and 8448 are currently dismanteled in their boxes... i'm running out of space

please do furthermore, because your comments are always valuable and offer often interesting viewpoints...

by the way - just visited your website and found this astonishing "thing": http://sariel.pl/2012/12/tumbler/#more-2456 It is IMHO not the counterevidence of my point of view because it isn't a typical supercar with multispeed transmission but it is nevertheless one of the best MOCs i have ever seen: and it is a RC "car" playing with seems to very funny... So i will state my initial proposition more precisely: IC and motorized typical supercars are IMHO nothing which is well supported by current lego parts but transmissionless RC-motor-based (racebuggy motor) "car-objects" can be indeed very funny and well done with lego