TeamThrifty

Very true... maybe the social media platforms make it seem worse recently, previous generations didn't have that 'luxury'! I will also concede that point - my intention was purely the defence of lego

My main motivation is to add vocal support to what TLG are doing for technic. those of us that had 851 in 1979 could never have dreamed we'd have something this amazing - and that it would last and evolve for 40 years. Its a rare and beautiful thing, and we should say it more often - the loudest message shouldn't be the negative waves ((c) Oddball, kelly's heroes) Here's a snippet of a post from a few pages back on this very thread.. "I didn't expect much from the start, but honestly it's just pathetic now.... another color/sticker barf... a brand new electrics system that not only hasn't improved anything except the control range, but now uses an unnecessarily big battery box and terrible connector." Now, to me, this is a great example of none-constructive/objective moaning. Your description of wanting a live axle is typed and put across very reasonably, the snippet above is the kind of thing i find frustrating to read.. its not even factually correct! i'm fairly sure control+ does bring new stuff to party!! My reason for commenting on this kind of stuff isn't cos my skin isn't thick enough, believe me, to be blunt - i love lego and couldn't actually care less what others think!! - its because the negativity needs a counter-weight. If people blurt out unsubstantiated negative stuff, someone needs to 'pump their brakes' and say Lego is Brilliant! and say it as loudly as the detractors. Reasoned debate is brilliant, and everyone has an equal right to put forward their opinion, and when the debate is logical i enjoy reading the conflicting sides - and often find myself agreeing with both! - but not the 'everythings crap, i could do better' rants 42082 was subject to massive negativity about its part count - several very vocal members of this forum were going to prove how TLG got it wrong and would build 2500 part version that was at least as good as the official set.... the very loud voices didn't produce a single moc to 'prove' anything, presumably they just wanted to moan loudly and achieve nothing. This is mentality that my comments are aimed at...

Just read the forum, there are a few people that moan about everything.. negative, negative negative. Piece count, colour vomit, colour choice, poor function count, poor function operation etc etc... you'd think they'd get a different hobby as from their posts, they don't seem to like lego. Fortunately they're the minority.. and it doesn't influence my decisions, but, it does wear a bit thin. Its the curse of the entitled millennial And a point i've made before, is that the moaners are always the loudest (on the forum and in real life..), and it must sometimes be very disheartening for the guys at Lego to do such an awesome job creating this amazing product and sets that are brilliant.. and all they see is the negativity. I don't love every set, and i find the price of the new sets a bit salty, but i still love what TLG are doing.

Very very well said. Sometimes the amount of negativity on the forum is terrible. If it wasn't an Afol community, you'd swear some were 7 yr olds have a tantrum...! Constructive objective opinions should be (and are) welcomed, its not about agreeing, and debate is healthy.... but sometimes, some people?! Wow. Unrealistic expectations of having perfection served up to them.

..awesome thought... active suspension would be cool.

Good enough for me. I'm glass half-full anyway, but even from the clips we've seen so far, it looks an excellent step forward... and you have to assume that we were seeing the Release Candidate, very, very V1.0 - the scope going forward is huge. Exciting times. As soon a raspberry pi connects, all the kids and future programmers will eat it up. As well as us grown ups! And if you can use a raspberry pi... then lego mocs become an Internet of Things device. Next stop, terminator 2.

Nope nothing. Except there's an app. And it shows inclination angle on two planes.. Oo, and you can build your own macro's to compound multiple actions. Nothing apart from that. Ahh wait, can't you do some cool stuff on-screen on the app to control the vehicle? Apart from that, and the bits i forgot, its not improved anything..... Probably really easy, thats why so many of us are Chairmen of large multi-nationals... There's a tonne of awesome stuff here, Control+, Plantary's...

It was a bit long-winded, you're right! what i was trying to saying is that a moc thats personal to you is better than official sets, even though it may be less 'perfect' the experience of creating trumps the beatifically crafted official (and someone elses moc is probably trumped by both)... Built not Bought. So MOC wins in my eyes

Who for? A MOC is for the person that is creating it, no-one else... the poor building experience you mention is presumably for others who buy their instructions? For me, thats not moc-ing, that buying a set.. just so happens its not official Lego. Don't buy-in ideas, let your mind run free! A MOC only truly belongs to the creator, and is only a moc for them, no one else.. and when i'm sat messing around trying to make something work, it might not be the textbook "sell-able" gloriously optimised build... but for me, the moc-er, the building experience is awesome! Official sets give me ideas, ways that things can be optimised, but official sets are about 3% of my lego pleasure. Everything else is moc-ing.. building, failing, taking apart, rebuilding. Thats what i love, thats lego for me, and that building experience is about as good as it gets. Thats why i'm approaching my 40th technic anniversary - its not the official sets that keeps me hooked, and its definitely not other peoples moc's, great though some are. Its the trial and error - PLAYING - cos its a toy, and i love that about it. If your idea of moc-ing is building someone elses moc, then thats not moc-ing, so the building experience argument fails.... Ultimately, as was summed up in the original post - Lego are targeting mass sales with hundreds of constraints. And the more money they make, the more new parts they create, so the longer i can keep building stuff, from my own mind, for my own pleasure and loving the building experience. Which is better? Thats easy, (my own) MOC's, because thats where (97%) of the pleasure lies for me...

unimog was effectively pendular at both ends.. well not strictly pendular, but same difference when we're talking about the body-roll. probably my favourite suspension in fairness. might re-build the unimog one day!

I think i will be adopting that approach.. love the set, but i'm happy to wait until the price comes down a bit.

Store?!! Its lego old lad, take it to bits and build something with it!!

Its very easy, i usually have diff lock on my tractors - my current xerion moc has 3, front, rear and central, all lockable. Can't see lego offering as it does wind-up the transmission and will eventually break things, they'll definitely want to avoid that.

I find the presale price very interesting as it starts to pull it down to a more affordable number - if they can do it for presale, the retailers will also offer similar i suspect. low 300's is a lot better than 400. Maybe we'll see some on amazon for 330 euro's...

I thought torsion bars were on the illegal list (for those who follow the pure science and shun the black arts!!)?

If it was several years, my mate (and many other owners!) would less annoyed!! They're terrible new. This model is a far better purchase option!! By the set, and then go by a Hyundai with the money you saved, cos they're bulletproof!! The model genuinely look brilliant though, i wasn't expecting something so good. It might sneak onto my want list, and i'm not a car guy. Nothing better than having your preconceptions proven wrong. Pleased to say i was wrong in thinking it would be a dull set!

Mate of mine, who is the owner of a Landrover Discovery vehicle sent me this on an email!! "If all those bits are actually working then it's not a very accurate model: Developed in partnership with Land Rover, this building toy has vague steering due to dodgy track rod ends, worn output shaft 4-speed sequential gearbox that won't select third, All Wheel Drive with 3 differentials, two of which are full of swarf, independent suspension in which all the bushings need replacing and a detailed in-line 6-cylinder engine which drinks oil and belches black smoke and a seized winch"

Unexpectedly very pretty! And it will be a DAMN site more reliable than the real thing!! (assuming the new defender is as bad as disco and rangy's.. they breakdown so much!!)

I know... Yep, you're right. I can see it should be expensive - its got 2 hubs and 7 motors, 4000 pieces and is licenced. I can see its not a cheap set, but over £400? I'm very pro big sets and accept the price tag that comes with them, but even from my positive default position, i'm struggling with that price. I'm sure there's a lot of market research gone into it and they wouldn't pitch it there if it was doomed to fail. I build sets once, and they stay built for a couple of months at the most, then i take them to bits for the parts for moc's. I know some people display a set rather than dismantle, so maybe when its sat somewhere for a couple of years, £400 for a display item (piece of art?) seems more reasonable Maybe i'll be pleasantly surprised!? RRP of £360 and discounted to £280?!!

£400+ is beyond my self imposed limit which is a shame as the model is great, but i can't justify that amount of spend to myself. I'll certainly buy the new parts once they come available, but i always get lego at xmas.. so i need to buy something!! (our system is based on representative democracy, this was a divergence into direct democracy which is less effective - but you're right, we've idiots in government, plus a lunatic Marxist in opposition.. )

UK will get a rough deal due to the weak pound... just another consequence of the very silly brexit.. If it start with £4xx i won't be getting it, it needs to be low to mid £3's at the most for me. And i'm a fan of big sets, but i have to justify the expense to myself

That sounds great news, 40 degrees is respectable.. just need to see some pricing and hope for a decent retailer discount to offset the cost a bit. Exciting times! Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

I'm sad now... I'll probably mainly use the planetary's inboard rather than in the hubs... though in a new Xerion 30 degrees would be enough to use them as hubs. Mmmm Maybe not all is lost!! Thanks for the info!

Ha! i'd forgotten about that from my youth... the original planetary reduction!! There are no new ideas.... Am i just being optimistic, or is the available working angle on this new cv joint much better than the old one? If it is, we need new hubs to make use of it...

An excellent point, there's also the linear clutch.. very compact main reduction. I love building tractors which use planetary's on the axles, so this is new 'realism' part. I often down gear more than 5:1, so being able to add one at the motor in such a small space will be awesome.. Lets also see how the clutch performs, maybe better than the old white 24 version? Can't wait for the new parts to appear on brinklink or similar.