mostlytechnic

My reads so far, and why (on a couple people at least) Zachary - suspicious, for the same reasons as others. Asking Esther to pm you, etc. Esther - just barely slightly town. Will swing based on the rest of the day (claims made, etc) Liz - leaning town, based the quality of posts. Kenneth - leaning town, because a scum wouldn't have gotten penalty votes like that. Or I could WIFOM and say that's how a scum would think we'll think... hm... and this early, should be easy to avoid getting lynched even with penalties. So it could be that Kenneth is a powerful scum role trying to get cred with the town.... Ha, I was weighing that in my post above while you posted this. Great minds think alike and all that I guess...

My only problem with this - how can she trust anyone yet? So IMHO, the question is between doing nothing (claim in PM to someone WHEN she can trust someone) vs claiming a specific role and what she did/learned/tried to do/didn't do last night. My fear is she'll get killed, probably sooner than later, and then we won't know what role we lost (granted, the scum wouldn't know either which is a good thing) or what she did last night. Perhaps wait a while? It is very early on day 2, so it's do we wanna discuss/debate all day based on yesterday or discuss/debate with new info? Knowing that the new info would be info for the scums as well...

At this point the scum can't vote anyone off on their own - they have to get town on their side. So knowing more about you will help us know what we should be doing about you. The scum either need town to vote with them, or they need the town divided. Right now you (esther) have high potential to get the town to do either, which if you're town, is good for the scum.

Esther, since you've basically already claimed, I'd say yes, finish it. You're a massive target for the scum and I don't expect you to survive much longer after claiming yesterday, so it'd be better to know everything you know before you go. I'd rather you HADN'T claimed (though I do recognize that's probably the only reason you weren't lynched yesterday, you were kinda between the proverbial rock and hard place) So I guess, aye, claim it and tell us what you did last night.

It actually made me laugh too

Don't apologize, scrutinizing votes is what we're supposed to be doing! Yeah, I recognize in hind-sight that it wasn't the towniest of things to do, but hopefully the rest of my discussion and votes will assure others of my townieness as well.

I think you misunderstood me - I was also saying I'm leaning slightly town on Esther. Like 55/45, but still. I said (and you quoted me) "so I'm thinking likely that the scum assumed Esther would be protected/watched, so they killed someone that was non being suspected" Meaning that the scum avoided targetting Esther. Look, it was near the end of the day, I wasn't trying to seal Caleb, I was trying to protect a possible town PR. Maybe I should have thrown away my vote on someone else. I had just a minute to catch up and vote while in the outhouse between gigs at the saloon... not an optimal time or place for thinkin. And yes, I agree that Esther voting caleb isn't a scum or towntell. It's just her saving herself. I'd have been shocked to see her vote anyone else. Looking forward to hearing from esther and the other silent ones... we gotta start planning for another round at the gallows.

Looking back, yeah, I didn't play well at the end of the day. I'd basically gotten wary of voting Esther (risking a PR), so I switched my vote even though I wasn't confident elsewhere. It wasn't explained well, so I see where it looked suspicious. Sorry. I agree that the Mayor was likely metagamed. Only reason I can see it... so I'm thinking likely that the scum assumed Esther would be protected/watched, so they killed someone that was non being suspected and therefore very unlikely to have any other attention paid to him. That is of course assuming he was scum-killed. As for the other "missing" kills... very possible that the vig wasn't confident enough to kill. Doubt I'd play it that way, but it's very possible. Assuming there IS a third party with a kill, either the blocker got lucky, Esther was protected and they went after her, or heck, maybe they got unlucky and both scum and 3rd party went after the horny mayor! Dunno...

Well, that's not good. (and for the record, yesterday's final vote count is wrong. Esther ended with 7 votes, not 8. Caleb would have been gone with or without my vote switch at the end) So now with 2 town gone, we've gotta do better today. As usual, out of the 10 voting against Caleb I expect to find several scummos. Although with it being such a close vote and swinging from a large Esther lead to Caleb getting lynched, that makes me think maybe she's scum and her buddies jumped on the Caleb bandwagon to save her... See, this is a case where you can learn from a lynch. If/when Esther is lynched and comes up scum, that'd tell me that those voting for her on day one are likely town. If she came up town, then the scum split their votes between her and caleb most likely. Not sure it's worth lynching a claimed town PR to determine this yet though...

Yeah, this is how I've started thinking too. I'm leaning towards Esther being very aggressive, but TOO aggressive to be scum. I certainly wouldn't have handled things the way she has, but I don't think scum would have either. So I'm going to Unvote: Esther Thompson (Esurient) Vote: Caleb Norman (Captain Nemo) Since it appears Caleb is getting lynched anyway (all the votes are in other than the Sheriff's, and he's got a couple vote lead), I'll switch my vote there too. I actually thought about doing a throw-away vote since I'm not at all convinced on anyone today either - I mean, really, how can anyone be sure enough to KILL SOMEONE based on day 1? And the odds are high that we'll be wrong and lynch a townie - but in the end, the vote is the most powerful thing the town has and just throwing it away or even not using it is foolish. So I went with someone who is a bit scummy, the most scummy of anyone so far. If there was a better candidate I'd vote for someone other than caleb with no qualms, but there's not.

This is in reference to the discussion about lynching as a way of testing loyalties? Where you said "The only way to test this is obviously to kill or lynch her. The good side about lynching her is that there'd be no later confusion surrounding her and her affiliation. The downside would be that we would be risking the loss of a townie."? If that's what you're talking about, then I saw where Jessica said " I wanted to put my two cents in to say that lynching her today is probably a bad idea. Also, not even because they thought she is scum, but because we'd "find out her true allegiance". That's a stupid reason to lynch someone." How's that pointing out logic? I did the actual effort to think about it and put a wee bit of thought into it and said "Naw, there's plenty of times when a lynch to determine allegiance is a perfectly legit way to go. I don't think so here - nothing to be learned other than her loyalties - but it's certainly not something to make a blanket statement like that. Why I remember a time in this special Academy when we tried to learn lots of things from lynching." That wasn't to defend YOU - I have no idea if you're with us or against us yet. I was just saying that sometimes lynching to learn is a legit idea. When there's more significant claims, voting history, etc to consider once you know for SURE where someone stood. Here, not so much since ALL we'd learn is Sheridan's loyalties and nothing else since she hasn't done anything nor has anyone defended or attacked her enough to base further action on. I don't think the biggest risk in leaving Sheridan alone for now is that she's scum. If so, it'll come out in time. I don't think anyone will trust her as town - at least not anytime soon - so I don't see her "infiltrating the town ranks" or anything like that. The biggest risk I see is that she could be a powerful scum and figures she'll be left alone now and can fly under the radar while wielding some powerful night action for the scum, and not face much scrutiny since we can't investigate her. A rolecop (if we have one) could help with that, but that's a big if there. So I plan to treat Sheridan like everyone else - an unknown until they've shown themselves trustworthy. (and I don't think that scenario is likely, cause that would be a might ballsy move for a power scum!)

Except for 2 things... 1. Millers aren't common. So it's a gamble of having a real one, but possibly a gamble worth taking. 2. If there were a counter claim, it would cause mass confusion and debate for a day or more. Still possibly worth it - you'd have to assume one gets lynched and possibly the other vig killed (or scum killed if we correctly lynched the false-claiming scum). Still, ties everyone up in fighting that's fairly worthless since we would have literally nothing to base our decision on between them other than what they said during that day.

Your scenario with Sheridan here is quite plausible - given (like Kimberly pointed out) that the scum had significant time to plan, they could EASILY have come up with this strategy. Frankly, if there is a loyal role-cop, I'd be wary of checking out sheridan tonight. Too easy to get watched and caught. Esther, well... like you say, I don't think she's dumb. But I also can't see scum letter her carry on like she has all day. I'll admit, on that basis, I'm leaning towards possibly changing my vote. I just can't see the scum making such claims and accusations on day 1. Caleb, well, dunno what to say. It's very plausible that he's just trying to defend himself from all the voting without having anything solid to use. And that's why I haven't unvoted esther yet... As for the very real chance the scum is trying to manipulate night 1, again, I'd be hesitant if I were a town PR to do the obvious checks. Yes, I wanna test Sheridan and Esther, but that'll be very dangerous to do tonight. Risking being WIFOM though, the scum could be counting on that too.... argh. Life as a dancer is so much easier without all this murdering.

Frankly, this is the Esther's best defense yet, and it didn't come from her! Even if you are telling the truth, esther, that you have a claim to make, there was no reason to wave it around yet. In the end though, it might work to get some town votes off of you since I'd expect after you said that for scum to pile on (and yes, i realized that I voted for you after you weakly claimed - that is a slightly scummy thing to do, but I'm not scum and I suspect you are, therefore, I still placed the vote) And this is the other possibility to explain your actions, Esther. Sadly, we're already seemingly into a "scum or dumb" scenario. At this point I think it's flailing scum. Well, I don't think you have half a chance of being town or I wouldn't have voted for you. I think you've got about 45% chance of being town, 55% chance of scum. It's day 1, and that's the highest scum rating of anyone here in my opinion. So, my vote's on you. I left if open that if you can change my mind and make yourself at least half chance of town, sure, I'll change my vote. But my job as town is to vote of scum and right now you're the highest on my list. Others - yep, Kimberly there is pinging for silence. Zachary for his strong lynch vote against Sheridan. Slight pings on drake and Boris for voting Esther AFTER the softclaim. (yes, I know I did too and that I think she's scummy. By slight ping I mean that if she's lynched and comes up town, I'll remember those two for jumping on. If she comes up scum, I'll remember those two for voting rightly. So it's more of a note than a scum/town ping I guess) But at this point, Esther is still the highest on my scumdar so she's still getting my vote. But there's still many hours left in the day.

Wow, massive wall of text there, but I'm not sure any of it is worth much. Seems overall to be much yammering about tiny nothings. Or even yammering wrongly. For example, you say I hint at lynching Sherri, but the quote YOU BOLDED OF MINE says no such thing. In fact, I said "It's not hugely likely for such claims to be tested via death" because I don't think she's getting lynched today and I don't think she should be. The other statement of mine that you quoted was even more clear - "there's plenty of times when a lynch to determine allegiance is a perfectly legit way to go. I don't think so here" I've said my opinion of her repeatedly, but since you asked, again, I rate her about 51% town because I'm going on nothing but the fact that scapegoat claims are usually legit. So that's a townread, but not nearly solid enough to do much on yet. I'm pretty interested myself - Esther's softclaim that she WILL claim later seems like she's just hoping we'll go away. If it's a legit claim, I'd think she'd have kept quiet about it, defended herself, and then ONLY WHEN A LYNCH WAS IMMINENT (ie had a strong lead in the votes, or a slight lead with <12 hours left) made a flat out claim. As it is, her claim that she's going to claim reads like flailing scum to me. I could be wrong, it's not a strong read, but it does reinforce my gut. So for now, I'll go with it and say Vote: Esther Thompson (Esurient) I'm not yet strongly confident, but it IS day 1 and there's normally not much to go on. Please, Esther, if you ARE town, defend yourself (and ideally without claiming since you don't have any way to prove your role yet). If you're scum, keep flailing :)

I'm not ready to go that far - it's too likely that the claim is legit, and then we'd just be killing off one of ourselves. It's easier to just put very little weight on what she says until she's proven herself. Safer for the town, since we really don't wanna be lynching our fellow loyal folk. I'm leaning towards voting for Esther at this point. That whole accusation thing over small font choice - in the C&D thread, not even in the real journal! - just seemed over the top and scummy to me. Not quite ready to lay the vote on her, but that's where i'm leaning.

Well, a role cop would probably work to test Sheridan. As could a watcher, see if she has a night action which would indicate scum (of course she could just not use it to pass the test too). However that doesn't mean that we as a town would know since the role cop or watcher couldn't easily announce without revealing themselves too. Still, they would know and could reveal it when appropriate. Just don't go thinking we'd all know on day 2

Naw, I think I was pretty much on the fence the whole dang time. My first post I said why wait, why not wait? The claim can't be verified at this time, likely never, so there's not a ton we can discuss and decide. Her loyalties will have to be found other ways, like voting records and so forth, like anyone else. During my dancing breaks I did a little diggin' to learn more about the role and found that an immediate claim is a very common way that good people of other towns handled being scapegoats. But like Tony up there said, there's also not much downside to a gutsy scummo claiming either. It's not hugely likely for such claims to be tested via death - considering we don't know if the great and wise Captain Minnow there even turned anyone into a scapegoat. Maybe Sheridan's telling the whole truth like a proper young lady should, and maybe she's a dastardly scheming conniving scummy gang member. There's just no way to know yet and that's why I've been on the fence. If I were a scapegoat, I'd probably have done the same thing. Makes me lean maybe 51% townread on her. That's about all I think we can get from the topic at this point.

Dunno about here in Silver City, but normally, nope. It's a one-shot (or more) ability to test a single statement by a single player: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lie_Detector While we're discussing roles.... is the "scapegoat" being claimed the same as the "miller" role used outside Silver City? http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller Sure seems like the same thing, and if so, looks like the immediate claim is a very common reaction to the role. Doesn't really help us decide whether (or when) to test the claim though...

Naw, there's plenty of times when a lynch to determine allegiance is a perfectly legit way to go. I don't think so here - nothing to be learned other than her loyalties - but it's certainly not something to make a blanket statement like that. Why I remember a time in this special Academy when we tried to learn lots of things from lynching.

So now you're defending your daddy's loyalty to the town? Based on what? In the saloon I've seen enough of decent, upright-appearin' fellows turning into lechers. So even if you think your daddy's the best (always good to see in a young lady like yourself), you got anything to back those words up with?

Caleb, get thee to the saloon post-haste and get thee drunkerer. As for Sheridan, I don't see a need to put the noose on her just yet. I think the claim was too bold for those scummos, but I also don't think she's verified as trustworthy yet - as is no one here.

Dang, having to use this telegraph thingy is slowing me way the heck down. I started my last message right after sheridans post. Have to say, yeah, I think that girl is probably OK. Not sure, but probably. Too bad she's too young to come dance...

First, Caleb, quit yar dancin. Nobody, and i do mean nobody, wants to see that. Why should they, when they can be watchin me? Second.... That role claim. I guess Sheridan is a silly little girl. But why not wait? Well, why wait? If she got investigated and came up scummy, like the good people of this town would believe the claim then. Of course, we don't believe her now either....

Sorry, no freebies at my shows. You wanna watch, you pays the price. And I've already got me a man with all the sausage I need.