mccoyed

The funny part is that I always have trouble remembering "mrcp6d" and I have to look to make sure I'm typing it right every time. :P

Narbilu keeps tricking him into fighting things. At least that's his story and he's sticking to it.

Great build in a truly unique style. Might have to ape this a bit in real bricks next time I do a micro!

Such a great build. One of the things I like about it, oddly, is that it could fit into any role-building game pretty much. It's great that you chose to use it for AG.

Really wish I knew how to implement this. I have a lot of trouble with the EB signature editing.

I'm starting to wonder if there's some reason why so many of the top builders on EB are joining MANTIS.

Great rockwork and interesting use of the Elves pieces!

So that's what the land of Arium Major looks like! Koro only saw the vast ocean, or he would have if he'd ever been to Arium Major.

Amazing micro. Really sells the glacial cliff and those little critters are inspired.

Cool underwater scene. Koro got to Arium Major just in time, apparently.

Amazing build and lighting. Those dropship troops remind me of Starship Troopers. Great design for them.

Yeah, also using Chrome.

It's not fair that you're as good at science fiction MOCs as you are at fantasy, SK! This one is grand.

Can say I've never seen lava done with fire pieces like this. The effect is jaw-dropping.

First off, name's McCoyed... it says so right on my post. When you're investigating a mysterious enemy and you get ambushed? Sure, why not? Spies fighting each other is called counter-intelligence. They train special personnel for that in pretty much every country, last I checked. The worm is not an Octan partisan. The act of espionage in this case is protecting information from Octan incursions on the planet. It's a coincidence and an obstacle that Koro has to deal with that the chip he's recovering was swallowed by a giant worm. The worm has nothing to do with Octan, but the race to capture planets and resources definitely does. What Koro was doing was definitely part of that. The information doesn't have to be Octan's information. The information simply cannot fall into Octan's hands. Or anyone else's. That's the whole idea, and I don't see how it's an issue unless you're taking the idea that "spying" or "espionage" activities are to be taken extremely literally. To me, that hampers creativity and is too rigid an approach in general. If you start applying that logic to every other role, you'll quickly run out of room for variables and interpretations. I don't see your point about spies having an advantage. My whole problem is wanting to avoid having every "Spying" build be literally eavesdropping. But just so we're clear, there actually isn't a spy job. Spying is just one of the several things Special Operations (an actual job in AG) can do. Koro is Special Operations, which seems to be one of the most flexible jobs in the game thus far. I've had other builds posted as "Military" because they were more confrontational. For example, Angry Angel is not "spying". It's not "espionage". But it definitely falls under the very general (which may be its own problem) aegis of the "Special Operations" role. Compared to Angry Angel or Drone Duel (or any other build except Active Camo), this new Water Worm build is certainly "spying". Would you argue that Swift Reprisal wasn't spying? In that case, Koro is trying to do the same thing: prevent secrets from falling into the hands of the enemy. I didn't name the enemy in Water Worm which seems to be the problem. If so, it's pretty silly to me. In the context of the political situation in Andromeda's Gates, Koro is basically James Bond or Ethan Hunt or Makoto Kusanagi. If you think about it, you don't see those characters sitting around listening in on people's conversations all the time, right?

Yes. Exactly. It's also easy to find out about real life espionage operations that have been declassified or popularized in fiction. Some stuff is so crazy and elaborate (Argo for example) that it's hard to believe it actually happens. That said, it's not like I'm advocating a super realistic attitude toward spycraft and espionage. I think it's a good idea to be loose and "action movie" about it. I'm taking more cues from Mission Impossible than from The Americans, for example. Context is what matters most to me, and the context is a cold war between three companies vying for limited resources and territory. Everything Koro has done falls under the bracket of "espionage" within that context, and he's done lots of different stuff: -An enforcement assassination to protect Kawashita secrets (Swift Reprisal) -A pre-emptive strike to disrupt interference to Kawashita interests (Angry Angel) -Directly infiltrated an enemy base to gain intel (Active Camo) -Fought off an ambush when pursuing investigation and intel (Drone Duel) And now he's: -Recovered sensitive Kawashita information/property from the bowels of a giant worm (Water Worm) To me, this all fits as "spying" if the definition of spying is widened to include all those activities we could justify as fitting into the context of espionage manoeuvres (and it should be, or the "Special Operations" job should actually just be "Spy").

This. An overly literal view on these roles and what constitutes an activity within them is unhelpful. It will hamper creativity and discourage interpretations and encourage endless hair-splitting arguments about what counts as "driving" or what have you.

SHALLOW WATER.

He's just happy to be going off to war, Kabel! :P

Haha glad to hear this and yes, I suppose it's good to move away from "secret" decisions and discussions at least in terms of rulings and stuff like that. My story wasn't explicit that Kawashita was spying on Octan because I was trying to make that ambiguous and fun. I also think that Koro being involved with the spying activities of his faction should count, even if that doesn't mean he is physically spying himself. Spying and espionage are very big umbrellas of different activities and ideas, so being overly literal about it is just being narrow for no reason. Just my opinion, but I think we're on the same page.

I think you're wrong, WickNole, and I think you're being selective about how you define "spying" and "espionage" and "intelligence" for the purposes of making your point (which even Bob doesn't agree with). Still, I do think some discussion of the nuances of certain activities has merit. My philosophy on this, which you should be clear on, is that interpreting these categories creatively is ideal because it will keep builds from becoming stale or just being figs eavesdropping on each other (for example). But on to your specific points. 1. You don't know what's on that chip. It's [REDACTED]. I kept the purpose of the probe secret, but you should try to remember while you split hairs about definitions that all the Companies sent initial probes/exploration into Andromeda prior to settling with actual colonies, and thus "before the game began". 2. Are you serious? Intel is literally a short form of "intelligence". This is what I mean about splitting hairs. Gathering intel, of any kind, is part of espionage if it's context is a sort of corporate cold war. The kind of intel or where it's from is just a detail. You don't think that gathering information about a planet, perhaps the aliens that live on it, etc is relevant when Faction A predicts that Faction B will eventually try to occupy it? I think you need to use your imagination a bit. 3. Your previous reference to Bob's examples including "gathering intel" which is what Koro is doing in this build. That's pretty straightforward to me. I don't have to say what's on the memory chip and whether, perhaps, the probe on Arium Major was a long-range listening device spying on Octan communications. Information like that might be important to another build later on. The "gathering intel" and doing stuff like recovering assets is part of espionage. 4. Yes it is, especially when it's sensitive data you don't want falling into enemy hands. Wick, it seems like you need to watch a couple of spy movies or something. You would also benefit from a less rigid interpretation of Bob's rules. He himself doesn't agree with you, but what's more is that you aren't the authority on what constitutes espionage in the abstract or practical sense.

If that's addressed to me, I think it's pretty clear that Koro is gathering intel. He's plucking a memory chip from a Kawashita Probe on a planet they're not supposed to have a probe on. I was pretty sure my story/description with the build justified the use of the spying outfit, but maybe we need to talk about what should count as spying. Those three examples seem like examples, not binding categories... but maybe I'm wrong? In any case, my Water Worm build is certainly "gathering intel". I don't think every spying build should be just a sigfig eavesdropping on someone. Creative application of terms like "spying" which is really a less fancy way of saying "espionage" will make sure we don't see the same builds, basically, over and over. Anyway, if you want to talk more about this specific case, send me a PM. I don't really want to have my builds questioned in the future if I can avoid it... though I did forget the Spying tag this time!

I definitely want that banner too haha.

Hahaha ohhhhhhh, you guys.

If this were bricks, this worm would be so much better than the measly little water worms of Arium Major. But hey, maybe they're related!