Which Themes Deserve a Reboot?

[Asajki]

13 hours ago, pooda said:

With that being said, those 9V trains released by World City gave me so many issues. I could tell that was the last straw because from the date of their discontinuation onwards, all trains converted to RC and PF. Smart move Lego.

PF is much more reliable than 9V. I can see why trains are selling better now than they did before. 

They don’t just fail to work, they look hideous! The passenger train is so lumpy and the cargo train is an ugly coloured block 

[The Island Chronicles]

Just now, OwenMistika said:

They don’t just fail to work, they look hideous! The passenger train is so lumpy and the cargo train is an ugly coloured block 

True to that too. 

[Digger of Bricks]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:09 AM, MAB said:

On 10/2/2019 at 8:58 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

We have seen recent Three-In-One sets introduce all-new torso prints, so give them time and I'm sure they'll soon be giving us all-new recolors of preexisting elements. 

Aren't most of them City or used in City? Which new ones did we get from 3in1s?

Last year, this torso print was introduced and so far has appeared in only two Three-In-One sets...

Brickset - 6213253: Mini Upper Part, No. 4129

[Capparezza]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:30 AM, pooda said:

PF is much more reliable than 9V.

Err, what? I have got a couple of the original Metro Liners as well as some copies of 4563 here. All are working without any flaw. The motors are reliable, not a single one has given up. The train power supplies are going strong and keep on working. The only parts that I had to replace so far are those damn contact cables connecting the rails to the power supply. But, plain technically, everything is still in working order without any signs of degrading performance.

Besides that, when doing train shows I can keep my trains running and do not have to take my trains out of the loop to replace batteries.

So, please elaborate on that part.

 

On 10/5/2019 at 2:30 AM, pooda said:

I can see why trains are selling better now than they did before. 

Ah yes. And that's why we see less and less sets coming along with those trains? Back in the outgoing 9V era we had the following sets accompanying the 4511 and 4512:

4513 Grand Central Station

4514 Cargo Crane

10027 Train Engine Shed

10128 Train Level Crossing

And these are only the sets that just came out in 2003. Not to speak of the other sets that were still on sale that year, like the wonderful My Own Train wagons.

Now, having the 1HY 2019 catalog in front of me, I can see the following:

 

 

 

Yepp. That's it. No train station, no engine shed, not even any single wagon or set that could go along with your freshly bought train. Surely, that must be because trains are selling better now than they did back in the days... *cough*

 

But anyhow, yepp, that last World City express train looks awful. I do like that cargo train, however. The colour scheme works perfectly on this one.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Capparezza

[The Island Chronicles]

@Capparezza Judging from your avatar, I knew you were going to disagree with my statement before I even clicked on the notification. 

Anyway.....

You do know that the sets that you mentioned are also compatible with RC trains right? I was talking specifically about the train sets. Not the add ons. 

But I do have to admit that I'm longing to see another engine shed. 

I also want to see a police train, fire train and a mail train. Railway Police anyone?

Jk. I'm not gonna give Lego anymore ideas for police as we have enough of those already. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by pooda

[Gomek]

3 hours ago, Capparezza said:

And these are only the sets that just came out in 2003. Not to speak of the other sets that were still on sale that year, like the wonderful My Own Train wagons.

I really liked those train cars. We definitely don't get enough reasonably priced single train cars. If fact, I think a lot of Lego city sets in general would sell better as 4 $30 sets instead of one $120. I can tell you for a fact If my 80's main street set was twice times as big, had 4 buildings instead of 2 and cost twice as much, my parents would have laughed at me for requesting it.

[TeriXeri]

18 minutes ago, Gomek said:

 If fact, I think a lot of Lego city sets in general would sell better as 4 $30 sets instead of one $120. 

I completely agree on that for most sets with multiple mixed vehicles+buildings, especially the capital city / donut shop / ski resort / downtown fire / sky police airbase,  type sets of recent.

Some of those sets contain a fair amount of "unwanted" content for me, which in the end I tend to not get such sets.

Of course it's LEGO and the parts can be used for other builds but you'll still end up paying more then if they were a bit more seperated into smaller sets, but I can also understand reasoning of not having 100 new city sets in a given release season, due to packaging/distribution/shelf space.

Edited October 6, 2019 by TeriXeri

[The Island Chronicles]

@TeriXeri @Gomek Once again. I'm talking simply about the technology in the trains. Nothing else.

[Lyichir]

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I completely agree on that for most sets with multiple mixed vehicles+buildings, especially the capital city / donut shop / ski resort / downtown fire / sky police airbase,  type sets of recent.

Some of those sets contain a fair amount of "unwanted" content for me, which in the end I tend to not get such sets.

Of course it's LEGO and the parts can be used for other builds but you'll still end up paying more then if they were a bit more seperated into smaller sets, but I can also understand reasoning of not having 100 new city sets in a given release season, due to packaging/distribution/shelf space.

There's also the factor that it benefits Lego to have sets at a wide range of price points. A parent who wants to get their kid one set for their birthday might consider an $90 to $120 set a great surprise, but consider buying three or four $30 sets excessive (despite it ultimately costing them the same amount). That's a part of why you sometimes even see even smaller sets bundled in one box as a "value pack" (despite not really offering savings over buying the sets individually).

Bundling also helps to spread the demand of various subjects evenly. Even if a set could be broken down into multiple smaller sets, there's no guarantee that each of those subjects would sell equally well. The museum in the Capital City, for instance, is not that large or impressive and only really "works" in the context of the open-air tour bus to take them there and the crane to install and deinstall the caveman exhibit. Together, those components form a story, but separately, there's little guarantee that the less individually impressive parts would sell well enough to justify a separate SKU at all.

This is especially true for things like trains, for which certain parts like the engine would be considered essential while other cars would merely be optional supplements. That's one of the main reasons Lego no longer sells individual train cars, the other being that kids and parents generally prefer getting a "complete" play experience in one box rather than having to choose and buy each component of a complete train circuit individually (despite that option being far more preferable to the smaller market adult train fans who can more easily plan and visualize the layout they want and would be more likely to buy multiples of certain segments if given the choice).

[The Island Chronicles]

2 hours ago, Lyichir said:

The museum in the Capital City, for instance, is not that large or impressive and only really "works" in the context of the open-air tour bus to take them there and the crane to install and deinstall the caveman exhibit. Together, those components form a story, but separately, there's little guarantee that the less individually impressive parts would sell well enough to justify a separate SKU at all.

The museum from Elite Police had more meaning. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by pooda

[Asajki]

2 hours ago, pooda said:

The museum from Elite Police had more meaning. 

Agreed

5 hours ago, Gomek said:

I really liked those train cars. We definitely don't get enough reasonably priced single train cars. If fact, I think a lot of Lego city sets in general would sell better as 4 $30 sets instead of one $120. I can tell you for a fact If my 80's main street set was twice times as big, had 4 buildings instead of 2 and cost twice as much, my parents would have laughed at me for requesting it.

Buying a single train car is such a lame idea, also 30 1980’s dollars is 93 dollars in 2019, it would’ve only been 38 dollars if it’s 120 now 

9 hours ago, Capparezza said:

Besides that, when doing train shows I can keep my trains running and do not have to take my trains out of the loop to replace batteries.

They don’t run out that quickly 

9 hours ago, Capparezza said:

Ah yes. And that's why we see less and less sets coming along with those trains? Back in the outgoing 9V era we had the following sets accompanying the 4511 and 4512:

All those sets are basically combined into one nowadays 

 

9 hours ago, Capparezza said:

And these are only the sets that just came out in 2003. Not to speak of the other sets that were still on sale that year, like the wonderful My Own Train wagons.

Combined to one too! 

60098 has a log truck, two flatbeds, a railway crane, a digger, a road crossing, a hopper and two flatbeds!

It comes with:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=4186870-1

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=4514-1#T=S&O={"iconly":0}

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=10128-1&name=Train Level Crossing&category=[Train][9V][World City]

Plus two flatbeds and three vehicles!

10 hours ago, Capparezza said:

Yepp. That's it. No train station, no engine shed, not even any single wagon or set that could go along with your freshly bought train. Surely, that must be because trains are selling better now than they did back in the days... *cough*

 

Lego don’t need to make forty sets when they can make one 

10 hours ago, Capparezza said:

But anyhow, yepp, that last World City express train looks awful.

Something I agree with!?

10 hours ago, Capparezza said:

I do like that cargo train, however. The colour scheme works perfectly on this one.

In some photos it looks good but it’s hideous mix of old grey and green, 3677 is of similar design with far superior colouring and style 

[MAB]

On 10/6/2019 at 1:38 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Last year, this torso print was introduced and so far has appeared in only two Three-In-One sets...

Brickset - 6213253: Mini Upper Part, No. 4129

Yep, I should have know that as my son has that one!

19 hours ago, Capparezza said:

Yepp. That's it. No train station, no engine shed, not even any single wagon or set that could go along with your freshly bought train. Surely, that must be because trains are selling better now than they did back in the days... *cough*

=

I imagine LEGO has dropped their output of trains as trains do not sell so well these days. Whether they were powered by 9V, PF, PF2, something else. Kids seem not to be that interested in model trains. When I was a kid (late 70s/80s) model trains were incredibly popular with kids, Hornby in the UK was massive. With my brothers, we used to spend hours making scenery for our train set - some of it from LEGO. Whereas, for the past few years, Hornby has been in financial difficulties. I cannot remember the last time I saw a kid playing with a 00 gauge train set. It is a hobby for old men these days.

9 hours ago, OwenMistika said:

Buying a single train car is such a lame idea,

It is an interesting point, but that is one of the reasons a lot of train folk give for not buying into LEGO trains. If you cannot buying individual rolling stock, and have to keep buying an engine every time you want another car, it gets very expensive.

[The Island Chronicles]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

It is an interesting point, but that is one of the reasons a lot of train folk give for not buying into LEGO trains. If you cannot buying individual rolling stock, and have to keep buying an engine every time you want another car, it gets very expensive.

You bring up an accurate point. I would like to see more options for rolling stock being sold separately. I'm still waiting for a mail train. 

But I stand by my statement. 9v is trash. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by pooda

[TeriXeri]

I can fully understand wanting just extra rolling stock, or seperate rail packages instead of full train sets with yet another electronic component.

That's how I feel about some of the buildings in the City sets.

And again, I can fully understand the reason for LEGO selling large complete train or city playsets, as especially those are great to start out collections / playability context and shelf space on retailers.

But that doesn't take away there are people that desire seperate traincars or buildings, but likely such a minority of customers that it's not viable to be created right now.

That's why 3-in-1 is my go-to theme for most buildings, unless it's an exception set like the 2018 hospital or 2019 fire station.

Edited October 7, 2019 by TeriXeri

[The Island Chronicles]

 

7 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

That's how I feel about some of the buildings in the City sets.

So would you want to see more buildings? 

Because in my opinion, buildings symbolize jobs. So, the more buildings there are, the more jobs I and children know are in Lego City. Vehicles are good. But buildings show me better. 

7 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

That's why 3-in-1 is my go-to theme for most buildings, unless it's an exception set like the 2018 hospital or 2019 fire station.

I mostly end up modding the buildings that I get. For example, I got rid of the big boat from 60167 and used the boat from 60165 for my coast guard hq. I also switched the little truck from my 60215 Fire Station for the water shooter from 60214. I also removed the little coaster track from my 60228 Space Center, leaving just the rocket and building. 

[TeriXeri]

33 minutes ago, pooda said:

So would you want to see more buildings? 

It's more about the ratio of vehicles to buildings in sets.

In comparison the 2016 vs the 2019 Fire Station, I greatly prefer the 2019 version, and added the seperately sold dockside dock and boat to it, as well as the Fire-Chief truck to have a larger ladder-wagon.

I admit that Donut Shop set has some awesome vehicles, but the buildings are rather tiny in comparison to the total volume of the set.

Similar for the Downtown Fire set, has some decent construction-site side builds but I'm not really interested in the huge firetruck when I have 2 fire cars already.

 

Then compare recent 3-in-1 buildings have no to at most some tiny 4-wide vehicles that only take maybe 5-10% of parts.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by TeriXeri

[The Island Chronicles]

Just now, TeriXeri said:

It's more about the ratio of vehicles to buildings in sets.

In comparison the 2016 vs the 2019 Fire Station, I greatly prefer the 2019 version, and added the seperately sold dockside dock and boat to it, as well as the Fire-Chief truck to have a larger ladder-wagon.

I admit that Donut Shop set has some awesome vehicles, but the buildings are rather tiny in comparison to the total volume of the set.

Similar for the Downtown Fire set, has some decent construction-site side builds but I'm not really interested in the huge firetruck when I have 2 fire cars already.

 

Then compare recent 3-in-1 buildings have no to at most some tiny 4-wide vehicles that only take maybe 5-10% of parts.

 

Now I have to agree with you there. Especially with the Doughnut shop. The only two vehicles I felt were needed were the crane truck and the bike cart for the Doughnut shop. The taxi and news van felt needed but forced at the same time. 

I also prefer the 2019 fire station myself as its simpler. I'm hoping that simplicity in base sets I'd here to stay.

That set and the burger bar actually made the fire sets my favorite sets for this year. I mean I was able to even use the burger bar as part of my town. Tbh, I'm hoping that things like the burger bar fire rescue would be incorporated to future sets. 

I actually recommended that Lego does a Police Grocery Store Heist with a store front and a bike cop and crook on a bike. But at the same time, you can use the store for civians. I also recommended a Police School Bus Chase with an actual school bus. 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by pooda

[Gomek]

16 hours ago, OwenMistika said:

Buying a single train car is such a lame idea, also 30 1980’s dollars is 93 dollars in 2019, it would’ve only been 38 dollars if it’s 120 now  

I don't see the difference between buying an engine for $60, three cars for $20 each, and some track for $20, or buying a set for $140. If anything buying separately is part of the whole customizable concept that Lego is founded on.

Also when comparing today's sets with the 80's, that why I was saying "twice as much". Four buildings cost twice as much as two, whether in 1980 or 2019. In 1980 I got a two building set and that was pushing it. There was no way I was getting a set that had twice the pieces for twice the price. They would have just gotten me more Kenner Star Wars figures instead.

6 hours ago, MAB said:

It is an interesting point, but that is one of the reasons a lot of train folk give for not buying into LEGO trains. If you cannot buying individual rolling stock, and have to keep buying an engine every time you want another car, it gets very expensive.

Exactly. This was the nice part of the Super Chief release. You buy the engine, then as many cars as you do or do not want. I'm sure people bought extra cars. For me, the engine was a stretch, so I didn't get any cars, but if you would have forced me to get two cars and track that I didn't need, I would have likely bailed on the whole thing (though would have also regretting not having the cash).

I just know my buying habits as a parent and as a collector, and the buying habits of my parents. The phrase 'little things add up' sums it up. Getting a bunch of little sets over time is a lot easier for people to swallow than one big hit. In the end it usually ads up to more.

[The Island Chronicles]

@Gomek Try Ebay. You'll find some there. 

[Gomek]

Just now, pooda said:

@Gomek Try Ebay. You'll find some there. 

Find some what? I got the Super Chief when it came out. (It was an example of when breaking things up and giving people options worked out for everyone)

[The Island Chronicles]

Just now, Gomek said:

Find some what? I got the Super Chief when it came out. (It was an example of when breaking things up and giving people options worked out for everyone)

Well so much for TLG knowing what they're doing. If breaking things up and giving buyers options works, how come I don't see that incorporated with City too much? I mean.....I would like to see a standalone car dealer or pizzeria or something similar. 

[Gomek]

Just now, pooda said:

Well so much for TLG knowing what they're doing. If breaking things up and giving buyers options works, how come I don't see that incorporated with City too much? I mean.....I would like to see a standalone car dealer or pizzeria or something similar. 

Oh, I never said Lego knows what they're doing. Half the time I feel like they stumble upon best practices by dumb luck, not to mention resist things people are asking for for years. If anything they've been moving toward the larger sets and bundling things people want with things that that they might not want.

Sounds like we are in agreement here, but yes, in my humble opinion, a car dealer or pizzeria I would think would be more desirable as stand alone sets than bundled with another three buildings people might or might not want.

[The Island Chronicles]

15 minutes ago, Gomek said:

Sounds like we are in agreement here, but yes, in my humble opinion, a car dealer or pizzeria I would think would be more desirable as stand alone sets than bundled with another three buildings people might or might not want.

The following sets I'm still waiting for; pizzeria, recycle center, post office, grocery store, car dealership, news station, pet shop and a bus terminal. 

I would've added a repair shop. But I think that's what the tuning shop is going to be in 2020. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by pooda

[MAB]

44 minutes ago, Gomek said:

I don't see the difference between buying an engine for $60, three cars for $20 each, and some track for $20, or buying a set for $140. If anything buying separately is part of the whole customizable concept that Lego is founded on.

Also when comparing today's sets with the 80's, that why I was saying "twice as much". Four buildings cost twice as much as two, whether in 1980 or 2019. In 1980 I got a two building set and that was pushing it. There was no way I was getting a set that had twice the pieces for twice the price. They would have just gotten me more Kenner Star Wars figures instead.

Exactly. This was the nice part of the Super Chief release. You buy the engine, then as many cars as you do or do not want. I'm sure people bought extra cars. For me, the engine was a stretch, so I didn't get any cars, but if you would have forced me to get two cars and track that I didn't need, I would have likely bailed on the whole thing (though would have also regretting not having the cash).

I just know my buying habits as a parent and as a collector, and the buying habits of my parents. The phrase 'little things add up' sums it up. Getting a bunch of little sets over time is a lot easier for people to swallow than one big hit. In the end it usually ads up to more.

I can see both sides - if they release an engine plus one carriage, then they sell the same number of engines and carriages but people that want more carriages either have to buy them from the secondary market or sell the excess engines on the secondary market (or build them themselves). Whereas if they release individual engines and carriages, then the engines might sell well but they are left with loads of carriages or the carriages might sell really well and they are left with too may engines. LEGO needs to try to balance the quantities manufactured / sales of both items to ensure that neither disappears before the other.

[Asajki]

1 hour ago, Gomek said:

I don't see the difference between buying an engine for $60, three cars for $20 each, and some track for $20, or buying a set for $140. If anything buying separately is part of the whole customizable concept that Lego is founded on.

Also when comparing today's sets with the 80's, that why I was saying "twice as much". Four buildings cost twice as much as two, whether in 1980 or 2019. In 1980 I got a two building set and that was pushing it. There was no way I was getting a set that had twice the pieces for twice the price. They would have just gotten me more Kenner Star Wars figures instead

Did you not read my point about inflation? Well, I’m just going to throw your pricing argument out the window! 80’s money is different to 2019 money!