Ragnarök Now Redux - Day Five

[CorneliusMurdock]

I never made any effort to be added to the town block or demand that any information be provided in reciprocation.

That's what made you so very good. You played it cool and kept the conversation going hoping I'd let something slip.

I don't know what you're referring to from yesterday, Mursi, but whatever you've been reading into from then was clearly misguided.

It was a post from yesterday's day thread.

The two obvious ways in which this result could have happened is if the investigator is lying or if I was framed. I know the investigator supposedly cleared Snotra and one other person. Is that person still around? I need to go back and figure out what they did on Day 1. Did they successfully clear someone that's still alive then, too?

Kolgrima was cleared day one and then died. As for your other question, I think that's for us to know and for you never to find out. I think you may be playing process of elimination with our NAs. Giving you that info may help you narrow down who's left.

The results could have been messed with. I do think it's far more likely for there to be a godfather than for you to be framed.

The investigator could be lying. Do you propose we lynch them to find out? What alternatives to your lynch could we have that give us a statistically better chance of catching scum today?

[Scubacarrot]

If Finn's results come back as loyal, though, we should really take a look at the other people that this investigator has looked into.

And the award for dumbest comment of the whole thing goes to.... Baulf! Who'd have thought?

[fhomess]

Kolgrima was cleared day one and then died. As for your other question, I think that's for us to know and for you never to find out. I think you may be playing process of elimination with our NAs. Giving you that info may help you narrow down who's left.

Ok, so Kolgrima doesn't help us. In some ways that's good as it means that we have, at most, 2 people who might be a "cleared" Godfather: Snotra and mystery person.

The results could have been messed with. I do think it's far more likely for there to be a godfather than for you to be framed.

This doesn't make any sense. The presence of a Godfather has nothing to do with the presence of a framer. They're not mutually exclusive, and are actually somewhat complementary. The Godfather gets an in with the investigator and then his partner frames an investigation. Loki would be delighted.

The investigator could be lying. Do you propose we lynch them to find out? What alternatives to your lynch could we have that give us a statistically better chance of catching scum today?

At this point I'm not opposed to lynching the investigator, but those in the know have to decide if that name is worth putting out there. In the absence of that information, and unless Lefsi comes back and tells us who killed Rurik, I think he's going to get my vote today. Based on what you've told me in private, I can only assume he's come back with no useful information. Perhaps he's been lying about his role the whole time and was actually the scum role cop or a scum JOAT. It would explain Jarni's death at the hands of scum.

[CMP]

This is exactly the behavior that you've been calling out people for daily.

Then I guess you're guilty of it too;

WTF! Dagstyrr was town and now there's a bogus scum result on me?

And if you'd been listening you'd know this isn't the behavior I've been calling people out for-

I also trust that the investigator's results are accurate. If Finn's results come back as loyal, though, we should really take a look at the other people that this investigator has looked into.

It is one of the more solid leads we have seen and looking into it is likely to reveal more information.

-this is. If you're cutting sentences out of what people say it's easy to make them appear like they're saying nothing. You seem to have missed the majority of my post.

Either someone is lying or someone has framed me. It's amazing to me the extent to which people are so quick to dismiss this.

I personally haven't dismissed the possibility, but we're at the end of here. One mislynch and we probably lose. We don't have any other leads. No voting to analyze. All we have a scum investigation result on somebody. That's a pretty solid lead, and it's the only one we've got.

Snotra seems to be the only one with any sense of a level head around here.

Well there's your problem.

Hm. More security that we won't lose instantly tonight (which you can't give) and more than one dinky's investigator's result. (which we don't have) But I can understand that we're not going to get it. I've said this to someone in private, and I'll repeat it here: What we have is enough to at least question the to some crystal clear course of action.

I'm not suggesting we lynch the investigator or someone else instead, that'd be dumb, but I'm super suspicious that this is a ploy, play, gambit if you will.

It's not crystal clear in my eyes. It's simply the only practical way forward at this point. We've got one chance to catch scum today. Are you going to trust an investigation result, or do you have something that points to the town block being infiltrated?

[LegoDad]

WTF! Dagstyrr was town and now there's a bogus scum result on me? Either someone is lying or someone has framed me. It's amazing to me the extent to which people are so quick to dismiss this. Snotra seems to be the only one with any sense of a level head around here. I have worked hard to provide those I trusted with information and to help us move forward in catching the Servants.

Right, this is really a big downside for someone who hasn't really done any vote analysis anyway. Nice try, thanks.

This is exactly the behavior that you've been calling out people for daily.

And you're awfully quick to ignore the possibility that I've been set up somehow. You were very eager to accept the idea that the SK had killed Jarni. Mursi was, too.

I did nothing of the sort! I provided my take on things so that you could guide the people you were talking to based on as much information as possible. I never made any effort to be added to the town block or demand that any information be provided in reciprocation.

I don't know what you're referring to from yesterday, Mursi, but whatever you've been reading into from then was clearly misguided.

This I will agree with. Holding an investigation result until the night has passed is a rational choice.

The two obvious ways in which this result could have happened is if the investigator is lying or if I was framed. I know the investigator supposedly cleared Snotra and one other person. Is that person still around? I need to go back and figure out what they did on Day 1. Did they successfully clear someone that's still alive then, too?

I would like you to find where I said this. It might have been a theory thrown around a long time ago, but it's been pretty obvious the last couple of days that Jarni was a scum kill, and you were the one that ratted him out. I find it highly unlikely that you were framed, as you had been hardly mentioned during the day, so why would you think that you would be a target at night?

You've been very quick to try to implicate me at every turn, and guess what, it's not going to work.

[Scubacarrot]

It's not crystal clear in my eyes. It's simply the only practical way forward at this point. We've got one chance to catch scum today. Are you going to trust an investigation result, or do you have something that points to the town block being infiltrated?

I wouldn't know, even though I am investigated, I am somehow not in the town block. But what I do know is that the town block has yet to produce any results, really.

[fhomess]

It's not crystal clear in my eyes. It's simply the only practical way forward at this point. We've got one chance to catch scum today. Are you going to trust an investigation result, or do you have something that points to the town block being infiltrated?

I can respect feeling that it's the only practical way. Unfortunately, it's wrong. As far as I know, Mursi, Naemr, and Lefsi were discussing things. I assume the investigator and Snotra have been involved. That's five people already, provided the investigator is neither Mursi nor Snotra, and the odds that none of them are scum at this point seems unlikely given the lack of success we've had. If the 2nd "cleared" person is different than those 5 and also invovled, it begs credulity. Given the Jarni situation, I find Lefsi the most suspicious of them all.

I would like you to find where I said this. It might have been a theory thrown around a long time ago, but it's been pretty obvious the last couple of days that Jarni was a scum kill, and you were the one that ratted him out.

It's my interpretation of your reaction to Jarni's death in private. When we were discussing the possible ways in which Jarni could have been killed, you immediately agreed the SK option was most likely.

I find it highly unlikely that you were framed, as you had been hardly mentioned during the day, so why would you think that you would be a target at night?

If the investigator is not lying (which you conveniently ignore), then I could have been framed because the scum knew I was the investigation target. Whether or not it was you that told them that, I don't know.

You've been very quick to try to implicate me at every turn, and guess what, it's not going to work.

I have not. I only brought the topic back up yesterday when it became clear that Jarni was NOT killed by the SK. I am trying to get to the truth of the matter. Knowing that I am not scum and that we had a highly suspicious death on the 2nd night, it's natural for me to think you were involved.

Seems I was composing after Snotra posted... At any rate, even if you remove him from the core, there's a good chance something is amiss.

For everyone to consider: How early did the investigator claim to someone? It's possible the town investigator was killed very early on, but could the scum have known that?

Also, who all knew I was the investigation target?

[CorneliusMurdock]

I disagree. Godfathers and framers are indeed mutually exclusive. Otherwise, an investigator might as well be worthless.

Also, who all knew I was the investigation target?

The investigation target was not shared with Lefsi or Neamr before it happened. Nor were their targets known to each other. For the scum to have framed you, they would have had to guess that the investigator would look into you.

I will not confirm the number of people I have contact with. I won't let you guess who the investigator is or was with that information. Taking them out is probably high up on your to-do list and I think that Rurik's death was because you thought it might be him.

[Palathadric]

Don't know. Finn has kind of sat in a suspicious place for me all game, but more gut feeling than anything. I would've lent more town on him and scum on Lefsi though, which makes me wonder about the investigation result. Lefsi has continued to sound defensive and like a persecuted victim, but maybe he really is town. I think statistically we have a higher chance of catching scum and winning the game if we lynch Finn, unless something big comes up to switch that vote elsewhere.

[MagPiesRUs]

You may now vote. With 10 players remaining, 6 votes are required to lynch. 72 hours remain in the day.

[CMP]

Vote: Finn the Squinter (fhomess).

[Bob]

Seeing as how everybody else views me as incompetent and useless, I shall help the town with my vote.

Vote: Finn the Squinter / Fhomess

I'm trying the best I can, but regurgitating rehashed statements won't help any of us.

[Hinckley]

Vote: Finn the Squinter (fhomess)

[CorneliusMurdock]

I'm trying the best I can, but regurgitating rehashed statements won't help any of us.

How's about some new theories, then? There are certainly avenues of thought still available to explore. Wow us. Only you can bring us your unique viewpoint.

Vote: Finn the Squinter (fhomess)

[WhiteFang]

I really don't have anything constructive else to add but shocked by our mistake yesterday. I will also place my vote too,

Vote: Finn the Squinter / Fhomess

[fhomess]

My vote should not be a surprise.

Vote: Lefsi Red-Shirt (LegoDad)

The fact that Lefsi is still alive should give pause to anyone who really thinks I'm scum. Lefsi's role is more useful to town that Jarni's was. I suppose that's also debatable but that's the way I see it and have seen it this whole time. I have done nothing but act in the town's interest and have been careful not to share any information I had beyond Mursi and Lefsi.

[Palathadric]

Vote: Finn the Squinter (Fhomess)

"May the gods smile down on us and grant us a favourable lynch today."

[Scubacarrot]

Vote: Finn the Squinter (fhomess)

[Captain Nemo]

Vote: Finn the Squinter (fhomess)

[LegoDad]

My vote should not be a surprise.

Vote: Lefsi Red-Shirt (LegoDad)

The fact that Lefsi is still alive should give pause to anyone who really thinks I'm scum. Lefsi's role is more useful to town that Jarni's was. I suppose that's also debatable but that's the way I see it and have seen it this whole time. I have done nothing but act in the town's interest and have been careful not to share any information I had beyond Mursi and Lefsi.

If you know that I'm town, then why would you vote to lynch me?

Vote: Finn the Squinter (fhomess)

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count:

Finn the Squinter (fhomess): 9 votes (CallMePie, Bob, Hinckley, Cornelius Murdock, WhiteFang, Palathadric, Scubacarrot, Captain Nemo, LegoDad)

Lefsi Red-Shirt (LegoDad): 1 vote (fhomess)

6 votes are required to convict. 45 hours remain in the day.

[fhomess]

If you know that I'm town, then why would you vote to lynch me?

It's called speaking from the point of view of my accusers to point out yet another flaw in the logic. I realize that the entire logic comes down to "we have an investigation result so we're going to put our fingers in our ears and hope we're alive in the morning". Mursi himself admits I haven't been scummy in the least except one tiny thing from yesterday he won't even mention. And I've been talking to him regularly ever since the whole Jarni mess happened.

Do I really need to say your "claimed" role? Since everyone's convinced I'm scum, and it's almost certain to me now that you are scum, there's no real point in hiding your role anymore is there? Everyone, Lefsi has claimed to be the town Watcher. To me, that's a more useful role than Jarni's tracker was. All Jarni could do was tell us if someone had a night action by knowing if they left their room at night. A watcher can tell us that by knowing who targeted someone. It's a little indirect, but they can see multiple people if they target the same person. And most importantly, they can identify a killer. If I was scum, would I really have Jarni killed and left Lefsi alive this whole time? That's ridiculous.

[Hinckley]

Do I really need to say your "claimed" role? Since everyone's convinced I'm scum, and it's almost certain to me now that you are scum, there's no real point in hiding your role anymore is there? Everyone, Lefsi has claimed to be the town Watcher. To me, that's a more useful role than Jarni's tracker was. All Jarni could do was tell us if someone had a night action by knowing if they left their room at night. A watcher can tell us that by knowing who targeted someone. It's a little indirect, but they can see multiple people if they target the same person. And most importantly, they can identify a killer. If I was scum, would I really have Jarni killed and left Lefsi alive this whole time? That's ridiculous.

So, Jarni was a weak tracker? Would his results include who his target targeted? Watcher might be able to get more results, but it's harder to use. The Town needs to guess correctly who will be killed. Tracker can be dangerous for you if you had told Jarni and Lefsi you were vanilla and actually did something at night. Jarni would've been able to find you out pretty quickly for that.

[LegoDad]

So, Jarni was a weak tracker? Would his results include who his target targeted? Watcher might be able to get more results, but it's harder to use. The Town needs to guess correctly who will be killed. Tracker can be dangerous for you if you had told Jarni and Lefsi you were vanilla and actually did something at night. Jarni would've been able to find you out pretty quickly for that.

Yes, Jarni was able to see who his target targeted. He used this information to confirm me Night 1 and I'm sure Finn knew this information as well.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Lefsi wasn't as much of a danger if you knew Jarni was going to track you or a teammate. And I was told that he told you and Lefsi that he was going to track Dufa the night he died.

If I were Jarni, though, I would have told you another target but tracked you, Finn. I'm still unsure of why he trusted you.