LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Alcarin]

Yes, it is. LEGO themselves came out and responded saying that ent was never meant to be Treebeard.

LEGO made a bad response there for demanding fans, if they said Ent can be whatever your LEGO imagination makes it to be, it would be then ok, but now all hell breaks loose.... its Treebeard, if you want it to be, its close enough, nothing in LOTR is close enough to Gondor soldier in armor though, or Witch king, or Mumakil or Minas Tirith.... Treebeard is quite honestly the least needed set and a set that gives the least interesting characters in terms of figures (Pippin, Merry? An Orc perhaps, surely no new print for the orc so yeh, pointless)

Even Denethor would be better than Treebeard set, atleast with Denethor there would be theoretical possibility to get The Tower guard, Gondor soldier, perhaps even Faramir(Ranger or gondor attire) or least numbered Fellowship member Boromir in Gondor attire............

Edited July 14, 2015 by Alcarin

[Captain Nemo]

I don't expect Lothlorien to pass review, just like I never really thought Minas Tirith would pass. Lego is simply to stupid. Angry birds isn't even popular anymore. If they had released the sets a few years ago, then it would make more sense. Same thing with Simpsons. That show is way past the prime of its popularity. The worst thing is, the Simpsons format would have been perfect for LotR. One UCS set a year, plus periodical series of collectable minifigures. I'm still not sure why Lego favors Simpsons over LotR, as the former contains as much innuendo as the latter contains violence. Sheesh.

Yes it would.

Lego favors Simpsons over LotR because it is more successful. Granted the format is different--which didn't help LotR.

I don't think anyone would say that wave one was a failure, but the second wave was pretty terrible. This has to be in part because of The Hobbit sets, which were clearly Lego's main intention with the Middle Earth sets--just as it should have been considering the new films were coming out, and would have the best market value. The focus was on The Hobbit, not LotR.

It regards to Simpsons vs LotR, it's not a fair statement to say Lego favors the innuendo filled former just because it's less 'violent' than LotR. Clearly Lego wants something different with the Simpsons theme, which is why they are restricting it to CMF and D2C sets. LotR appears to simply have been used as a lead in with the first wave of the Hobbit--much like the initial Indiana Jones waves let to the sets for the fourth movie. I think LotR would work well on the D2C formula though, granted there'd still be a lot of complaining about set sizes...

CMF wise, I don't think it would work well at all for LotR. It's obvious here people hate named characters, and so the CMF wave would have just turned into a hunt for the three or four generic army figures in each wave--understandably no one wants ten Frodos, but that's all the kids would get after scalpers snatched up every single Gondor soldier in site.

Really, the theme could have benefited from at least two more sets: one to give in some fashion the presence of Gondor, and another (in my opinion) to give us the Witch King. Anything else would just be an added bonus. Hell, the 'fake' tree-beard is good enough for me, and that's most likely what he would have turned out like anyways. Although I will say I don't understand the clamoring desire for Faramir--there's far more important characters we never got.

[HawkLord]

Honestly point to a LoTR line of product that is actually doing well. Bridge Direct dropped off, Weta is barely doing anything, Gentle Giant is out. Everybody left the Middle Earth product game, so there's very little motivation for Lego to stay in too. If LoTR was blowing up like Marvel is now, then yes Lego would stay in, but the lack of overall Hobbit products showed companies the there was/is no money in Middle Earth.

[Ql97]

Lego favors Simpsons over LotR because it is more successful. Granted the format is different--which didn't help LotR.

I don't think anyone would say that wave one was a failure, but the second wave was pretty terrible. This has to be in part because of The Hobbit sets, which were clearly Lego's main intention with the Middle Earth sets--just as it should have been considering the new films were coming out, and would have the best market value. The focus was on The Hobbit, not LotR.

It regards to Simpsons vs LotR, it's not a fair statement to say Lego favors the innuendo filled former just because it's less 'violent' than LotR. Clearly Lego wants something different with the Simpsons theme, which is why they are restricting it to CMF and D2C sets. LotR appears to simply have been used as a lead in with the first wave of the Hobbit--much like the initial Indiana Jones waves let to the sets for the fourth movie. I think LotR would work well on the D2C formula though, granted there'd still be a lot of complaining about set sizes...

CMF wise, I don't think it would work well at all for LotR. It's obvious here people hate named characters, and so the CMF wave would have just turned into a hunt for the three or four generic army figures in each wave--understandably no one wants ten Frodos, but that's all the kids would get after scalpers snatched up every single Gondor soldier in site.

Really, the theme could have benefited from at least two more sets: one to give in some fashion the presence of Gondor, and another (in my opinion) to give us the Witch King. Anything else would just be an added bonus. Hell, the 'fake' tree-beard is good enough for me, and that's most likely what he would have turned out like anyways. Although I will say I don't understand the clamoring desire for Faramir--there's far more important characters we never got.

Wave two would have been great, if only it wasn't the final wave. Or, it could have been a final wave, if there had been one more wave before it. Yes, the focus was most certainly on the Hobbit, and LotR suffered for it.

As for the innuendos, remember, they are making a Big Bang Theory set. I don't think it has to do with the content so much as the overall tone of the source material. Both Simpsons and BBT are comedies, whereas LotR is a Doom and Gloom, apocalyptic, war-to-end-all-wars kind of thing.

And who really is more important than Faramir? Eowyn and the Witch-King, and maybe Bolg. I'd say Sauron, but he wasn't in either trilogy for very long, so I would say he is tied with Faramir. Even then, three sets could include everything we are missing. A Battle of Pelannor fields, with a Minas Tirith gate, Eowyn, the Witch-King, Faramir, and some soldiers for both sides, a small Dol Guldur set with Sauron, Bolg, and Saruman, and the Balrog. That would make me happy. I agree with you regarding the Ent. If you adjust the eyes so they are level with eachother, then he actually looks a great deal like Treebeard.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Ql97

[MAB]

I don't expect Lothlorien to pass review, just like I never really thought Minas Tirith would pass. Lego is simply to stupid. Angry birds isn't even popular anymore. If they had released the sets a few years ago, then it would make more sense. Same thing with Simpsons. That show is way past the prime of its popularity. The worst thing is, the Simpsons format would have been perfect for LotR. One UCS set a year, plus periodical series of collectable minifigures. I'm still not sure why Lego favors Simpsons over LotR, as the former contains as much innuendo as the latter contains violence. Sheesh.

Yes it would.

You say The Simpsons is past its prime. And Angry Birds is unpopular. So what is LOTR? It may be popular here, but look at the toys, books, t shirts, bags, etc aimed at kids with The Simpsons and Angry Birds available in stores now. Those two brands are way bigger than LOTR. LOTR has its fans like everything does, but the fan base tends not to change so much and any fans into LOTR and Lego would have presumably bought into it already. Yet clearly the number if people buying in is not enough.

Angry Birds has got a film coming out. It may be old hat to older people, but it will be huge amongst kids.

[Ql97]

You say The Simpsons is past its prime. And Angry Birds is unpopular. So what is LOTR? It may be popular here, but look at the toys, books, t shirts, bags, etc aimed at kids with The Simpsons and Angry Birds available in stores now. Those two brands are way bigger than LOTR. LOTR has its fans like everything does, but the fan base tends not to change so much and any fans into LOTR and Lego would have presumably bought into it already. Yet clearly the number if people buying in is not enough.

Angry Birds has got a film coming out. It may be old hat to older people, but it will be huge amongst kids.

Very excellent point. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that these themes are all past the prime, yet Simpsons and Angry Birds are still getting better treatment. The Hobbit was supposed to do to LotR what the AB movie will probably do, but that is a nasty can of worms I don't want to even start discussing. In general, I'm disappointed with lego, yet still happy that we got a theme in the first place, and like a lot of other people, I'm using this thread to vent. I've had my say, so I guess I'll stop now.

[Deathleech]

LEGO themselves came out and responded saying that ent was never meant to be Treebeard.

That's a little misleading. It wasn't an official announcement or anything, it was simply a customer service rep telling you that? As we all well know, the customer reps have extremely limited knowledge. Heck, some even told fans that there would be more LotR waves when that is clearly not true. I would bet the rep that told you it's an Ent simply looked up the Orthanc set, saw it listed as an Ent, and then responded accordingly. I would LOVE to hear the actual designer's response. If nothing else I think it's a generic ent with heavy design influence from Treebeard.

Sorry if I seem overly harsh, but this is one of two things that really grinds my gears on these forums. People think if something doesn't look EXACTLY like a character, or isn't specifically stated to be him/her, than it can't be them. Lego is not so black and white with their designs. Heck, even look at some of their main characters like Legolas or Aragorn. Lego got them pretty close to their movie counter parts, but they aren't exact. Why then would you expect lesser characters to be exact replicas? You have to remember Lego is not only doing stylized blocky versions of characters and locations, they are also shrinking them down to a fraction of their size. That means less details can fit on a figure or model, and some colors or designs have to be changed. Heck, they threw a Uruk-hai helm on the Mordor Orcs, gave us "worker" Mordor Orcs in the Pirate Ambush set, gave Dain a red axe instead of his hammer, etc. These are just a few of the MANY discrepancies.

The other thing that bugs me is people wanting or supporting specific characters simply because they are their favorite. I love Treebeard. He is one of my favorite "creatures". That doesn't mean I want Lego wasting valuable resources or set slots on a set for him though. As Alcarin points out, you can easily modify the Orthanc Ent to look more like Treebeard, and the minifig selection would offer exactly nothing new except a Grishnak, who isn't that important. Not when we could get a Witch King, Gondor Soldier, Eowyn, Sauron.. or something else. Someone else awhile back was happy they gave us a Necromancer minifigure because that was their favorite character from the book. That's great and all, but the fig didn't look that good and that representation was literally in the Hobbit movie a few seconds. I understand it's hard to not be emotionally attached to characters you love, but sometimes I feel people really don't look at things from a more analytical point of view and see what could have been done, or what should be done.

TLDR: I would love a Treebeard set, but not at the expense of more important sets and characters, and especially not when we got the Orthanc ent that is "close enough". /rant

Edited July 14, 2015 by Deathleech

[atreyu2112]

The reason I am so hellbent on a proper Treebeard is first, he's one of *MY* favorite characters, and second, he was designed by Lego and IN the Lego LotR game, which came out before Orthanc. So we knew/know that the ent in Orthanc is not Treebeard just by seeing the design in the game.

A Treebeard set would only cost about $25. No new moulds or prints are needed, and it is very much the same in size/piece count as the Shelob set. You mean to tell me that if there was a $25-30 TB set that y'all wouldn't buy it?

I get and respect that for a lot of you, the ent in Orthanc is good enough, & that's cool. For me, it's not. I do agree though, I would not want a TB set in place of a Balrog or a Witch-king/Eowyn/Faramir/Gondor set if I had to make that choice, but I don't see any reason why all 3 shouldn't be done.

[Ql97]

A Treebeard set would only cost about $25. No new moulds or prints are needed, and it is very much the same in size/piece count as the Shelob set. You mean to tell me that if there was a $25-30 TB set that y'all wouldn't buy it?

No. I'd buy any LotR stuff Lego produced, period. I personally would rather have a $30 Balrog, than a $30 Treebeard. Just saying. We all are just posting our rants here, and asserting our individual opinions.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Ql97

[Deathleech]

A Treebeard set would only cost about $25. No new moulds or prints are needed, and it is very much the same in size/piece count as the Shelob set. You mean to tell me that if there was a $25-30 TB set that y'all wouldn't buy it?

The reasons you listed it would be an easy set for Lego to make are the reasons it's at the bottom of most of our wanted lists though. It doesn't need any new moulds or prints.. which means you can build it with existing pieces fairly easily. I honestly could see it being even cheaper, say a $20 set much like Shelob. The thing is I could see a lot of other sets being made in it's place instead. Heck, I would rather get a $20 army builder with Easterlings and Haradrim over Treebeard simply because a TB set brings nothing new to the table. It's one of those sets that would be nice to have in the fourth or fifth wave simply because it would be easier to get all the pieces in one set than having the BL or PaB for em. I would rather have a number of other sets before it though.

[Alcarin]

I don't think anyone would say that wave one was a failure, but the second wave was pretty terrible. This has to be in part because of The Hobbit sets, which were clearly Lego's main intention with the Middle Earth sets--just as it should have been considering the new films were coming out, and would have the best market value. The focus was on The Hobbit, not LotR.

If only such ''focus'' resulted in good sets from Hobbit, but in the end Hobbit line with exception of Unexpected Gathering, which was wonderful, was rather disappointing, especially wave 2 and 3

In the end the really outstanding sets of the Tolkien legacy were Unexpected Gathering, Helm's Deep with wall addition set and obviously Orthanc, rest was okish, good, mediocre, average, interesting, above average, you name it........

[Gibbon]

If only such ''focus'' resulted in good sets from Hobbit, but in the end Hobbit line with exception of Unexpected Gathering, which was wonderful, was rather disappointing, especially wave 2 and 3

In the end the really outstanding sets of the Tolkien legacy were Unexpected Gathering, Helm's Deep with wall addition set and obviously Orthanc, rest was okish, good, mediocre, average, interesting, above average, you name it........

I agree with you on your opinion of the LOTR and Hobbit line as Unexpected Gathering and Orthanc are toweringly the best sets of them all, but - i might be too strict - I do not find the Helm's Deep set to be anything more than an average or decent set. It's minifig selection is very nice but I can not say the same of the building structure. I have a feeling that the main reason for it's popluarity is the fact that it was an iconic scene of the movie (and to a little lesser extent of the book).

Edited July 15, 2015 by Gibbon

[Faefrost]

Honestly point to a LoTR line of product that is actually doing well. Bridge Direct dropped off, Weta is barely doing anything, Gentle Giant is out. Everybody left the Middle Earth product game, so there's very little motivation for Lego to stay in too. If LoTR was blowing up like Marvel is now, then yes Lego would stay in, but the lack of overall Hobbit products showed companies the there was/is no money in Middle Earth.

This! This this this. Lego actually had one of the most successful lines of Middle Earth related merchandising. Outside of tabletop gaming products nobody has ever really been able to quite strike gold with Middle Earth as a toy line. Lego did better than anybody else. It's a property that for whatever reason does not historically lend itself well to that sort of merchandising. As much as we wish it otherwise.

Imagine if LEGO sets looked more like this MOC by Orion Pax... Fend off that MegaBlocks castle!

If you think that looks good, you should see the "proof of concept" Castle Greyskull demo that Megabloks showed off at SDCC.

I don't expect Lothlorien to pass review, just like I never really thought Minas Tirith would pass. Lego is simply to stupid. Angry birds isn't even popular anymore. If they had released the sets a few years ago, then it would make more sense. Same thing with Simpsons. That show is way past the prime of its popularity. The worst thing is, the Simpsons format would have been perfect for LotR. One UCS set a year, plus periodical series of collectable minifigures. I'm still not sure why Lego favors Simpsons over LotR, as the former contains as much innuendo as the latter contains violence. Sheesh.

Yes it would.

The economics of the Simpsons and the Simpsons licensing are very very different. From Lego's standpoint the Simpsons and Scooby Doo are good examples of ideal properties. They are multi generational cartoons that have each been in near continuous production for almost 30 years. They have very widespread international penetration and appeal and at least three generations of consumers are familiar and friendly with the properties. Do you know what the easiest toy to sell is? The one that Mom and Dad already know what it is and already feel comfortable with.

Simpsons is also a well seasoned property well outside its pop culture peak, but deeply entrenched. It was an ideal candidate for Lego's D2C + CMF experiment. The license was probably affordable, and not requiring deep retail distribution.

Whereas LoTR's license was with WB, with a series of related movies in theaters during the course of the license. It was sold for major retail release. That is what WB would have wanted and insisted upon. Why sell the license to Lego to make 50,000 D2C pieces when the movies could sell a million?

[Deathleech]

This! This this this. Lego actually had one of the most successful lines of Middle Earth related merchandising. Outside of tabletop gaming products nobody has ever really been able to quite strike gold with Middle Earth as a toy line. Lego did better than anybody else. It's a property that for whatever reason does not historically lend itself well to that sort of merchandising. As much as we wish it otherwise.

I thought the Toybiz line did pretty well in the early 2000's? They at least were able to cover ALL the main characters, secondary ones, main characters in alternate outfits, and even some lesser characters. I agree that other than those three (Lego, Games Workshop, and Toybiz), no one has ever seemed to successfully tap the market, but is that really because of the offerings, or the material they are putting out? In all honesty I thought the Bridge Direct offerings were mediocre at best. We got half the dwarves, Bilbo, Gandalf, Azog, Fimbul, and a warg. No orc grunts or the full line up of characters. They also looked pretty bad. Furthermore I never really seen them in stores. Not that I thought the Hobbit was a great set of movies to begin with, it seems like the only reason they did well was riding the coat tails of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Didn't the GW LotR line do pretty well but the Hobbit line of theirs failed horribly?

With that said I think there IS a demand for medieval fantasy stuff. Heck, look at the immense popularity of Game of Thrones. You can get TONS of GoT merchandise from t-shirts, to key chains, to wine... even action figures (toys based on a very adult tv show.. whudda thunk it). I just feel like the Middle-Earth stuff never really penetrates the market. I never saw advertisements for any of the Lego Hobbit stuff, the Bridge Direct Hobbit stuff, etc. No cartoons, no tie ins, nothing. Heck, the movies weren't even advertised that much (compared to say the Avengers or other current big block busters). It would be one thing if these films were fresh in people's minds like the Marvel movies that get at least two new movies a year, but when the last movies were the LotR ones in the early 2000's you kind of need to market to get sales and interest going among kids.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Deathleech

[atreyu2112]

I agree, Toybiz did a FANTASTIC job with their figures. I have a COMPLETE MIB collection and they did make figures for just about everyone in the LotR trilogy. The last two "Epic Trilogy" waves (waves 3 & 4 that never got released) were going to focus on stuff that WASN'T in the movies like a Barrow Wight & Tom Bombadil, as well as PJ Corsair, PJ Wildman, Birch Ent ... I mean some REALLY obscure stuff. They did release some real odd stuff as it was, like Prince Theodred, Hama, Gamling, Guritz, Gorbag, Elendil, Isildur, Gil Galad...

So, in my opinion, Toybiz really was the only truely successful line of Lord of the Rings toy product, Armies of Middle Earth second and then, *maybe* Lego LotR ***IF*** we get what's still missing.

But lets face it, when people think of LotR they think of the epic moments & battles. As far as Lego is concerned in regards to their LotR offerings, they've only represented 1/2 to 3/4 at best.

[Khaled Yousef]

I don’t think the problem was poor advertisement, Middle Earth toys sold poorly amongst the current toy buying generation because The Hobbit movies weren’t that successful to begin with, compared to the more recent Avengers or Jurassic World or any other movie targeted to the same demographic. Kids would rather buy Iron Man or a Hulk instead of a Dain on a goat figure I suppose, and I don’t blame them.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Khaled Yousef

[wesker]

And who really is more important than Faramir? Eowyn and the Witch-King, and maybe Bolg. I'd say Sauron, but he wasn't in either trilogy for very long, so I would say he is tied with Faramir. Even then, three sets could include everything we are missing. A Battle of Pelannor fields, with a Minas Tirith gate, Eowyn, the Witch-King, Faramir, and some soldiers for both sides, a small Dol Guldur set with Sauron, Bolg, and Saruman, and the Balrog. That would make me happy. I agree with you regarding the Ent. If you adjust the eyes so they are level with eachother, then he actually looks a great deal like Treebeard.

Sauron would be nice but I can live without him. And I never cared for Bolg much. He was pretty much an Azog clone minus any personality. The only ones I truely want are Eowyn, Witch-King and Faramir - and they don't even need a third wave of sets for that. They can easily be released through Dimensions.

Really... a Boromir/Faramir teampack would be perfect. One or both characters could even come wearing Gondor armour to please the army builders who were disapointed by the lack of Gondor Soldiers. Plus an Eowyn/Witch-King teampack would be a no brainer. Or Eowyn could be paired with Aragorn and the Witch-King could be released solo. Regardless Lego is already promoting LOTR through the game so they've got nothing to lose by it.

[greenalfonzo]

I really like the idea of a 2 pack of Faramir in Ranger attire and Boromir in armor. There was a scene featuring them dressed that way together.

[MAB]

I imagine they'd do something like a Frodo and Sam pack before Boromir and Faramir. Thinking from a players perspective, Boromir dies early and Faramir fails so bad his dad wants to kill him. It's not exactly upbeat about being successful in the game.

[cullmancreations]

What do you guys the value of some of the LOTR sets be may be. I checked out a local mom and pop kind of toy shop and they have the pirate ship ambush and council of elrond. they have more of the hobbit sets like Goblin King battle, unexpected gathering, laketown chase, mirkwood elf army. I was also surprised to see that they had the Laketown guard polly bag which I picked up. should I pick any of the other sets?

[Vorkosigan]

Where is this mom and pop store? ;) Best bet for resale is probably unexpected gathering, but you should check sold eBay items in your country.

[MAB]

^^ If selling at retail price, don't bother with the exception of Unexpected Gathering. If 50% off, they are all worth a punt.

[Deathleech]

Lake-town Chase has also gone up a decent amount. It's going for about 30% over MSRP in the after market which is just slightly behind Unexpected Gathering. Mirkwood Elf Army you can still find online at most major retailers, and Goblin King Battle can be gotten for $10-20 under MSRP even from second hand sources like eBay.

[alvaron]

HI! I'm an spanish fan of Lord of the Rings, I was expecting the third wave from LORT Theme, but for what i've been reading, I think this theme is discontinued and dead.. what a pity...

[Bugbot2008]

FYI Ghost soldier heads in lego stores build-a-figure booths (uk London Westfields west)

Edited July 25, 2015 by Bugbot2008