LEGO Cuusoo - Classic Monorail Revamp

[csiquet]

Who has never wanted to see a monorail back on the shelves?

Well, I would love to see one back! Especially because I do not have any and my city is in serious need of a good commuting transport.

I would like to introduce to the Eurobricks' community the remarkable LEGO CUUSOO project of Conchas: the "Classic Monorail Revamp"

It is now our chance to own one of the most coveted LEGO set by voting on this project.

More pictures here.

http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/25324

PS: I am NOT the author of this project as I said 2 posts down

Edited September 17, 2012 by csiquet

[just2good]

Nice monorails, 'csiquet'!

My favorite is definitely the orange one. I supported it on Cuusoo, too!

[csiquet]

Nice monorails, 'csiquet'!

My favorite is definitely the orange one. I supported it on Cuusoo, too!

Indeed, it is a nice one.

I would like to emphasize that it is NOT my work.

It is a project of Conchas, a member of the Portuguese LUG (PLUG).

He introduced personally his monorail on the PLUG's forum but in Portuguese of course.

I'm sure he would love to do the same here in time.

I know he promised videos...

[just2good]

Indeed, it is a nice one.

I would like to emphasize that it is NOT my work.

It is a project of Conchas, a member of the Portuguese LUG (PLUG).

He introduced personally his monorail on the PLUG's forum but in Portuguese of course.

I'm sure he would love to do the same here in time.

I know he promised videos...

Oh sorry, I didn't read carefully the first time.

[JopieK]

It is a nice idea, but from sources inside LEGO I understood that they don't want to reintroduce a monorail although kids love it (we had one on display some years ago at LEGOWorld Zwolle, Netherlands) and parents love it as well... B.t.w. better switches etc. are needed I think (remotely operated, but alas same thing with normal train switches of course).

[Conchas]

Thanks Christophe!

I was to come here and present my monorails, but great that you took the lead.

Lets challenge TLG with a modern monorail and make them rethink about it, at least once more...

[kieran]

It is a nice idea, but from sources inside LEGO I understood that they don't want to reintroduce a monorail although kids love it (we had one on display some years ago at LEGOWorld Zwolle, Netherlands) and parents love it as well... B.t.w. better switches etc. are needed I think (remotely operated, but alas same thing with normal train switches of course).

do we know why this is, I have been reading all over the forum and get bits of info, like the mould broke and so on but nothing 100% concrete. Very nice to see new versions still popping up

[tedbeard]

As I mentioned on the project page, there is a far superior project that has been developed by a group of AFOLs including Joe Meno (http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/487). I say superior only in the sense that it is more likely to be produced in that it does not rely on unique parts and is thus more easily expandable. In addition it does not require a series of new molds to be cut. These molds are expensive and given the small market, are not likely to ever generate enough revenue to justify the costs.

Reviewing the discussion in such thread as http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57138 should help you better understand why suggesting a return to the old monorail system is not going to happen. You can wish for an updated or improved set of tracks and accessories but the company has been adamant in their unwillingness to even consider it.

Far better to work with a system that not only can work but has already worked in MOCs displayed at conventions. (see Joe's post here: http://brickjournal.blogspot.ca/2012/05/monorails.html

do we know why this is, I have been reading all over the forum and get bits of info, like the mould broke and so on but nothing 100% concrete.

The whole series was a total, abject failure that cost a lot of money to design and produce. They never made any profit on the sets. I have no idea if the molds have worn out (which all do) but if so they are certainly never going to re-cut the same money-losing elements again.

The reason they did not sell well was the high costs of the set thanks to several unique elements including the motor and switches. The sets were thus very expensive and while I think they were awesome, not very many kids were able to even see these sets as they were not distributed widely (see high cost). With a low visibility and high price they were not able to find enough of an audience who liked the monorail and were able to afford to buy it.

There is a way to find niche markets a little more effectively now but the cost factor still hits pretty hard. However, if they use stock parts (bricks, support, wheels, power functions engines and controllers) as proposed in the other project it might be possible to produce a set or sets at a reasonable price point.

Edited September 17, 2012 by tedbeard

[JopieK]

do we know why this is, I have been reading all over the forum and get bits of info, like the mould broke and so on but nothing 100% concrete. Very nice to see new versions still popping up

I don't believe "broken mold" stories (also with those cypresses), but who knows... Maybe trains and monorail are too much competition. I like that other project though it is quite large to build such a monorail, the original one was sturdy but also elegant.

[tedbeard]

I don't believe "broken mold" stories (also with those cypresses), but who knows...

The cypress molds did not "break" they simply wore out. Over time all molds are damaged by the simple mechanics of the injection molding process.

A friend of mine bought a ton of the cypress trees at the end of the production life. He could see a deterioration in the quality of the parts from the earlier trees he had purchased and the ones produced in the last gasp of the mold to fill as many orders as possible before the mold was retired.

Think of a mold as like the land before the Colorado river carved out the grand canyon; over time water (or ABS) can wear away the rock (steel).

[Monorailrulez]

I have followed the discussion about the whole monorail and the new PF-monorail.

Besides that the cost benefit picture seems also a point.

Is it not better when TLG produces for example a set with one train, one station, 4 minifigures and 4 straight parts

and 4 curves? A reasonable price would be around €100. With additional tracks as an expansion.

The airport shuttle was very expensive at that time because of the high amount of parts.

I think TLG can sell less for more in this case.

I am not an engineer but what would the costs be of that so called mold?

At the long term re introducing the monorail as suggested above would seem profitable to me.

[tedbeard]

I have followed the discussion about the whole monorail and the new PF-monorail...

At the long term re introducing the monorail as suggested above would seem profitable to me.

With all due respect you have missed a whole bunch of the discussion if you can conclude that the old-style monorail could be profitable. You have zero evidence to back this up and the company has years of market data showing it will not be profitable.

Look at trains. The 9V train system was abandoned in favour of the current system. It has a fan base and barely sells enough that they have supported it until now. I hate to say it but monorail has less of a market than trains in general.

There may be a way to get a monorail set or sets, but asking them to resurrect or re-design a failed system when it can be done without a lot of new and expensive elements is simply the smart way to go.

[lightningtiger]

Excellent designing there 'csiquet', I'm supporting it now as well (supporter no. 45) !

Good luck and Brick On 'csiquet' !

[JopieK]

The cypress molds did not "break" they simply wore out. Over time all molds are damaged by the simple mechanics of the injection molding process.

A friend of mine bought a ton of the cypress trees at the end of the production life. He could see a deterioration in the quality of the parts from the earlier trees he had purchased and the ones produced in the last gasp of the mold to fill as many orders as possible before the mold was retired.

Think of a mold as like the land before the Colorado river carved out the grand canyon; over time water (or ABS) can wear away the rock (steel).

Well, not long from now they can print new molds. I have seen very accurate metal objects being printed already. And of course they can print LEGO objects but until now that is way to time consuming.

[Old Brick]

However we get it, I would love to have a new monorail set.

[tedbeard]

Well, not long from now they can print new molds. I have seen very accurate metal objects being printed already. And of course they can print LEGO objects but until now that is way to time consuming.

No they cannot "print new molds". Molds are made of steel and have to be carved out of solid blocks. Melted ABS plastic is injected into the mold and a plastic part is created when the ABS cools and hardens. The part is ejected from the mold, it closes and is injected again with more liquid plastic.

The kind of 3D "printing" you are referring too makes plastic items one at a time and is used for prototyping (creating an experimental version of an element.) Some custom vendors use 3D printing (ie: Woody on Shapeways) but individual elements are far more expensive and slow to produce than using molds.

There is no way to "print" with steel yet and even if they did why do you think it would be significantly easier or cheaper than using robotic cutters to carve the molds as they do now?

But what this really comes down to is you are calling the LEGO company liars. You clearly do not believe them when they tell us that monorail lost money. You do not believe them when they say they cannot make money reviving this theme.

You can choose to fight tooth and nail against the facts or you can find a new way to move forward. The brick-built monorail track idea is feasible and does not require a quixotic fight. Seems like a clear winner to me.

[kieran]

Thanks for the clarification guys

[Conchas]

We may have to live with the arguments and decision from TLG, to not produce net sets based on the classic monorail anymore.

Although with all the respect that I have to alternative design that you mentioned and its authors, I doubt it could be turn in to a commercial product either.

If a large classic monorail layout is already not trivial to build, to make one of discrete bricks is certainly something not fitting a play theme and doubt any children will have interest on that.

If we start thinking on the track switching elements, then is is definitely out of budget and scope.

We may have to admit that monorail is gone forever...

But since "forever" it is too much time... it doesn't hurt to support and lead TLG into an official review, with 10.000 supporters backing it...

Then we'll see the result, and have paid nothing for that.

The same is of course also valid for the other project!

[pinioncorp]

One problem I can see with the brick built track is that it is very parts intensive. Even a small circle uses hundreds of heavy bricks, even if it is not elevated. Stressing the parts to make the curve would also not pass the internal review.

[JopieK]

No they cannot "print new molds". Molds are made of steel and have to be carved out of solid blocks. Melted ABS plastic is injected into the mold and a plastic part is created when the ABS cools and hardens. The part is ejected from the mold, it closes and is injected again with more liquid plastic.

The kind of 3D "printing" you are referring too makes plastic items one at a time and is used for prototyping (creating an experimental version of an element.) Some custom vendors use 3D printing (ie: Woody on Shapeways) but individual elements are far more expensive and slow to produce than using molds.

There is no way to "print" with steel yet and even if they did why do you think it would be significantly easier or cheaper than using robotic cutters to carve the molds as they do now?

Well, no offence... They can print titanium with very high precision (I have seen and felt it with my own eyes/hands) you tell me this is impossible?!!! You are just a wise guy in stating it like this.

Besides you didn't read my entire post.

[Duq]

I guess I'm one of the few who couldn't care less about monorail sets. I'd much rather see Lego produce wider curves for the regular track and straights for the narrow track.

If LEGO say monorail isn't commerically viable then I trust them to have done their homework. They tend to be pretty good with their market research these days.

But never say never. When 9V was introduced we thought we'd seen the end of battery trains but they made a comeback after all. LEGO said they wouldn't produce modern army sets but look what happened with Indiana Jones...

[domboy]

I guess I'm one of the few who couldn't care less about monorail sets.

Same here, even though I thought they were really cool when I was a kid... I especially wanted 6991 Monorail Transport Base, but I never got it for exactly the reason Lego isn't interested in producing monorails again... cost. Though I have to admit I never had any trains of any type for exactly that same reason. I am fortunate enough to finally have some, but I really doubt I would be interested in a new monorail, as I also would be much more interested in Lego expanding the regular train system (which apparently is also a hard sell I hear). In my opinion the main thing Lego monorail has going for it is the ability to quickly change elevation via the ramp track piece (or whatever it's called). Otherwise I prefer tracks with two rails...

That said, I watched the videos on the brick-built monorail on Cuusoo, and I have to admit that it is really cool... that switch is amazing!

Edited September 19, 2012 by domboy

[tedbeard]

Well, no offence... They can print titanium with very high precision ...

Besides you didn't read my entire post.

You are right, they can indeed print with steel. I had to look it up after speaking to a friend and wow, just wow. That is cool.

As I did say however I see no reason to believe the result would be suitable for injection molding or in any way cheaper and faster than traditional methods of mold production.

I did read you entire post and just re-read it again. 3D printing technology has a long way to go before it can compete with injection molding for the production of bulk commercial parts. The reason for the failure of the original monorail system cannot in any way be solved using 3D printing technology.

[Old Brick]

I'm not even close to being an expert on this, but could some of this new technology be used to make parts for a limited edition run that might be more cost effective than creating new molds. Just a thought.

[tedbeard]

... could some of this new technology be used to make parts for a limited edition run that might be more cost effective than creating new molds. Just a thought.

That's the problem. It would just be too expensive. Of course it is technically possible but the whole reason they abandoned monorail in the first place is that did not sell, in part because it was too expensive for consumers to buy.

If you are willing to pay insane amounts of money then you can make anything. However LEGO is not in this to lose money which is what would happen if they tried to sell a limited run of sets based on 3D printing.