Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Season 5 Discussion

[Brickadeer]

I think it's just about Disney wanting to draw focus on the upcoming movies.

You maybe right. Although I can't seem whom's focus they want to draw on the upcoming movies, nor how canceling the show should achieve this end.

Speaking for myself, what have they achieved so far? Basically, I'm still pissed. My stance on the Disney-Lucas-Deal has changed from "basically neutral" to "bad idea". My attitude to the new triology has changed from "willing to give it a chance" to "I couldn't care less".

I get the sense that they're being vague because they themselves aren't completely sure what they're doing right now. Almost like they want to say something decisive about the future of Star Wars but they want to leave the door open in case they decide that whatever they do instead doesn't work out and that The Clone Wars was their "original vision" the entire time.

I hope you're right.

If TCW doesn't get the end it deserves, my head won't be clear in order to deal with the new triology.

[Mraz Skintas]

Has there even been any news on what the new trilogy will be about, other than the returning cast?

Regardless, I don't see how ending The Clone Wars would be good for drawing attention to it, unless they release something for it real soon, because right now to me it's just a distant unneeded thing. At the rate Disney's going, I wouldn't be surprised if it was postponed too, to continue their streak. And if that's the case, they will have truly killed Star Wars...

[Oky]

Kind of like new Scum in a mafia game.

Good point.

I definitely don't think it's "quit while you're ahead instead of milking it" as much as it is "quit because you can probably milk something else for even more money".

You might be right, but what else is there to milk? They cancelled pretty much everything SW related that was planned for the near future, and it will probably take them a while to produce this new animated series they announced, so the only reason why they would cancel the only thing that they could possibly milk for the next one or two years is that they think it is a good marketing decision rather than a financial one.

You maybe right. Although I can't seem whom's focus they want to draw on the upcoming movies, nor how canceling the show should achieve this end.

Whom? The general SW viewing public. How? By stopping to show us stuff that happens before the OT and starting to show us stuff from the time period the new movies are set in (which is probably after the OT). That way they are ending the era of prequel related media and slowly start a new era revolving around the new movies. It kinda makes sense when you think about it, even if you may not like it.

Speaking for myself, what have they achieved so far? Basically, I'm still pissed. My stance on the Disney-Lucas-Deal has changed from "basically neutral" to "bad idea". My attitude to the new triology has changed from "willing to give it a chance" to "I couldn't care less".

Sorry, but I don't believe you. I have heard other SW fans say this too, but if you care about SW then I have a hard time believing that you're not even a little bit curious what the new movies will be about. I think any SW fan who says they don't care about the new trilogy is probably just blinded by their biased rage about some decision to admit they actually do care. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Has there even been any news on what the new trilogy will be about, other than the returning cast?

Regardless, I don't see how ending The Clone Wars would be good for drawing attention to it, unless they release something for it real soon, because right now to me it's just a distant unneeded thing. At the rate Disney's going, I wouldn't be surprised if it was postponed too, to continue their streak. And if that's the case, they will have truly killed Star Wars...

Nothing official, no.

And yes, let's hope that cancelling all these things will help them meet their almost unrealistically close deadline for Episode VII as they said it would.

[Brickdoctor]

You might be right, but what else is there to milk? They cancelled pretty much everything SW related that was planned for the near future, and it will probably take them a while to produce this new animated series they announced, so the only reason why they would cancel the only thing that they could possibly milk for the next one or two years is that they think it is a good marketing decision rather than a financial one.

The new movie won't be out for a couple years, but I wouldn't be surprised if they started releasing comics, games, or novels leading up to its release. Last time they did something like this, before they released the OT Special Editions and Menace, they did some testing with the Shadows of the Empire multimedia project. Obviously this time, they aren't testing to see if there would be any interest in a new movie - they've already decided to go ahead with that - but I think they might try to build up the hype and see how the fans respond with a similar release.

(I'm sort of building off of and agreeing with your idea that they want to focus attention on the new movie here; that seems to be the most reasonable explanation to me.)

[Brickadeer]

Sorry, but I don't believe you. I have heard other SW fans say this too, but if you care about SW then I have a hard time believing that you're not even a little bit curious what the new movies will be about. I think any SW fan who says they don't care about the new trilogy is probably just blinded by their biased rage about some decision to admit they actually do care. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

I was curious when the news that a new triology will be made was released. I do not think that my feelings are biased by the cancellation of TCW. Rather, from the impressions I received so far, my brain attributed to Disney the inability to create a triology that will attract my attention. So currently, this new triology is more like the place possessed by the dark side on Dagobah (episode 5)

[Brickadeer]

http://www.savetheclonewars.com/2013/03/was-clone-wars-intended-for-8-seasons.html

[Faefrost]

I'm not sure that I buy the statement that it was intended for 8 seasons. No TV show would ever contemplate such longevity. They may dream of it. They may even sketch out some rough ideas just in case. But really for a successful show, anything over 3 seasons (which makes them viable for syndication and reruns) is gravy. It is virtually unheard of for an animated show to go much past 4 seasons. That's around the point where the costs of producing new episodes start to look bad vs the returns on doing so. At 120'ish episodes in the can Disney has to be thinking that even if they started airing the show on Disney XD, they could get almost as good a return by simply looping the 5 existing seasons, and making a few TV movies from season 6, rather than keeping the show in its continuous $40 million/ year annual production format. Heck if they were to simply sell season 6 as separate DVD movies they would probably get a huge direct return. Moreso than they would have gotten by simply airing the episodes.

I do think we will most definitely see whatever was made for season 6. And it will certainly be in a format that we will be paying for one way or another. Lucasfilms and Disney are not simply going to leave that kind of money on the table.

As far as how and why this move would be to draw focus towards he new movies. The logic/marketing path goes something like this.;

We know that the new movies will be more focused on the OT and beyond. We know that the original (still living) principle actors will be involved as their classic characters. This means that the marketing push wants to start equating Star Wars in people's minds once again with Luke, Leia and Han. They want to take the next two years to finish the association with Anakin, Young Obi Wan, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christian, JarJar Binks, etc. this means for at least the next two years they will also be deliberately moving focus away from some of the PT era good stuff like Clones. We saw the same thing happen a few years back with Star Trek. When ST Enterprise was cancelled, it was not simply ratings as they claimed. The actual decision to cancel had been made months before anyone even saw any ratings. They wanted to clear the decks for the new JJ Abrams movie, and reduce any preconceptions or direct comparisons between the two projects. Now granted this may be a total fools errand in the modern world. The core of both the SW and ST fan bases are so plugged in that this marketing approach seems beyond stupid and quite insulting. Unfortunately it does still seem to work with the more low information casual fan, which is what movie profits are based on.

[Brickadeer]

I'm not sure that I buy the statement that it was intended for 8 seasons. No TV show would ever contemplate such longevity. They may dream of it. They may even sketch out some rough ideas just in case. But really for a successful show, anything over 3 seasons (which makes them viable for syndication and reruns) is gravy. It is virtually unheard of for an animated show to go much past 4 seasons. That's around the point where the costs of producing new episodes start to look bad vs the returns on doing so. At 120'ish episodes in the can Disney has to be thinking that even if they started airing the show on Disney XD, they could get almost as good a return by simply looping the 5 existing seasons, and making a few TV movies from season 6, rather than keeping the show in its continuous $40 million/ year annual production format. Heck if they were to simply sell season 6 as separate DVD movies they would probably get a huge direct return. Moreso than they would have gotten by simply airing the episodes...

As far as how and why this move would be to draw focus towards he new movies. The logic/marketing path goes something like this.;

We know that the new movies will be more focused on the OT and beyond. We know that the original (still living) principle actors will be involved as their classic characters. This means that the marketing push wants to start equating Star Wars in people's minds once again with Luke, Leia and Han. They want to take the next two years to finish the association with Anakin, Young Obi Wan, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christian, JarJar Binks, etc. this means for at least the next two years they will also be deliberately moving focus away from some of the PT era good stuff like Clones. We saw the same thing happen a few years back with Star Trek. When ST Enterprise was cancelled, it was not simply ratings as they claimed. The actual decision to cancel had been made months before anyone even saw any ratings. They wanted to clear the decks for the new JJ Abrams movie, and reduce any preconceptions or direct comparisons between the two projects. Now granted this may be a total fools errand in the modern world. The core of both the SW and ST fan bases are so plugged in that this marketing approach seems beyond stupid and quite insulting. Unfortunately it does still seem to work with the more low information casual fan, which is what movie profits are based on.

Point 1:

In the beginning, it was aimed to produced roughly 100 episodes. But I think due to the success of the series, the ends have changed. So I think that aiming at 8 season is realistic. Taylor and Taber are reliable sources, so the question is not if they planned to make 8 seasons, but rather when this vision was finalized. For what the fans of TCW will miss though, this question is not relevant: it will most likely be season 7 and 8, which, unfortunately, would have probably been the most interesting and intense seasons of the whole series.

Point 2:

The marketing cannot equate Star Wars in people's minds once again with Luke, Leia and Han. I think there are a lot of people, especially younger people, whose first encounter with the SW universe was made through TCW. I think for these people, they will have to find connections between TCW and the new triology.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Brickadeer

[Mraz Skintas]

I'm quite sure how equating the thought of Star Wars with Luke, Leia, and Han would be a good thing. When we left them in the OT, they were all happy and celebrating because they defeated the Empire, and as far ad EU goes, the actors can't really portray them in the way any of the books or comics do. If we are to be mentally swayed from the PT and Clone Wars, then it should be new characters.

[Artanis I]

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it has to continue for years and years until everyone is sick of it... besides, they're nearly at the point of Episode III anyway. Just let them wrap it all up. Take a look at British TV shows, with 6-8 episodes per season, and the good ones only go for a few years (most of the shows that keep going are the awful ones - soapies usually). The show is more popular the 2nd time it gets aired. You can watch Father Ted or Black Adder over & over again , unlike when 22-episode-per-season shows go on and on and on, there just isn't the time to keep re-watching full seasons.

And Brickadeer please stop saying "triology", it's "trilogy". Maybe you are confusing it with biology?

[Brickadeer]

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it has to continue for years and years until everyone is sick of it... besides, they're nearly at the point of Episode III anyway. Just let them wrap it all up. Take a look at British TV shows, with 6-8 episodes per season, and the good ones only go for a few years (most of the shows that keep going are the awful ones - soapies usually). The show is more popular the 2nd time it gets aired. You can watch Father Ted or Black Adder over & over again , unlike when 22-episode-per-season shows go on and on and on, there just isn't the time to keep re-watching full seasons.

And Brickadeer please stop saying "triology", it's "trilogy". Maybe you are confusing it with biology?

Your're right. But the point is that even if most TV shows consist of less than 8 (or 5 or whatever number) seasons, this fact hardly serves as an argument to cancel TCW. Rather, it serves as an argument that the show should have been designed in a way as to be concluded after season 5. And the assumed fact that TV shows in general tend to get worse after, say, season 5 cannot change the fact that I'd like to see how TCW was intended to conclude. (Eric Goldman came forward with your line of argumentation on IGN as well. I didn't find it convincing either. Actually, I found it apologetic, as if he had sided with Disney, or simply lost his brain.)

Plus, I think it's save to say that it would not have been canceled if the Disney-deal had not taken place. So the cancelation of TCW is not caused by the quality of the show itself but rather by other reasons.

Thanks for your correction about my spelling. Apparently, I learned it wrongly once and never was corrected. I appreciate any kind of correction regarding wording, grammar, spelling etc.,

Edited March 19, 2013 by Brickadeer

[Mraz Skintas]

As far as the show being intended to have 8 seasons goes, I definitely think that it would have gotten better as it went along, because for the most part it has. There's been a few off episodes, but as for the production, animation, and overall storytelling quality, that's only gone up. While the Droid or Younglings arcs went the most entertaining, they were different, still interesting, and well done. I don't know how many of you watch Supernatural, but in my opinion, it's only gotten better as it's gone along. It's on it's 8th season now, and going to be renewed for a 9th, with so far, all but I think season 3 having 22 episodes, so a good long lasting show can be done. I definitely think that Filoni had intended to go as long as he could, not for the sake of milking, but because he enjoyed the show, and enjoyed giving us something new every weekend.

[Mr Man]

Take a look at British TV shows, with 6-8 episodes per season

Series not season.

[Artanis I]

Your're right. But the point is that even if most TV shows consist of less than 8 (or 5 or whatever number) seasons, this fact hardly serves as an argument to cancel TCW. Rather, it serves as an argument that the show should have been designed in a way as to be concluded after season 5. And the assumed fact that TV shows in general tend to get worse after, say, season 5 cannot change the fact that I'd like to see how TCW was intended to conclude. (Eric Goldman came forward with your line of argumentation on IGN as well. I didn't find it convincing either. Actually, I found it apologetic, as if he had sided with Disney, or simply lost his brain.)

Plus, I think it's save to say that it would not have been canceled if the Disney-deal had not taken place. So the cancelation of TCW is not caused by the quality of the show itself but rather by other reasons.

Thanks for your correction about my spelling. Apparently, I learned it wrongly once and never was corrected. I appreciate any kind of correction regarding wording, grammar, spelling etc.,

I'm sure it would've kept getting better as it has been (but less kid friendly), but it's going to be over now, they have reasons (whether they're good or not) and no one is "entitled" to having their TV shows going as long as they want (except maybe TV execs etc) so I have to let it go. Hey, maybe some of the CW story ideas can be altered to fit the replacement show?

Series not season.

Gotta speak the other language for their benefit sometimes... shop/store, shipping/postage...

[Brickadeer]

I'm sure it would've kept getting better as it has been (but less kid friendly), but it's going to be over now, they have reasons (whether they're good or not) and no one is "entitled" to having their TV shows going as long as they want (except maybe TV execs etc) so I have to let it go. Hey, maybe some of the CW story ideas can be altered to fit the replacement show?

Gotta speak the other language for their benefit sometimes... shop/store, shipping/postage...

I fear you're right, but as Brickdoctor wrote above, it's not sure how determined Disney is to enforce the decision to cancel the show or, more precisely, how to finish it. It seems likely that some or even all material of the planned season 6 will be somehow published. The question is, how many of the stories written for season 7 and 8 will make it into production. And I think that with regard to this question, Star Wars fans actually have some leverage.

Since to me, TCW is mainly about the characters, their relations, and the question how Palpatine managed it to overthrow the republic and to defeat the Jedi Order, I don't think that the stories can be altered to fit into a replacement show since they are too specific.

[The_Chosen_1]

I just wrote a second pair of letters to Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy in support of the show. I would encourage ALL of us who have been disappointed by the recent developments to do the same. I agree with Brickadeer in that we as fans have some say in terms of what Disney will do with the show -- but we have to do it in large numbers. It might seem like a small thing to do, but at least it's something. There are way too many fans just sitting on their thumbs when we can actually be making our voices heard (in a respectful manner!).

Here are the addresses for writing to each company: http://www.savethecl...-lucasfilm.html

And here is information regarding a Twitter campaign happening THIS SATURDAY, March 23: http://www.starwarsu...otest_4523.html

Edited March 22, 2013 by The_Chosen_1

[BrickG]

Well it doesn't sound good.

There are a lot of reports from places like TheForce.net that say they're downsizing the LucasArts animation department. They're supposedly completely stopping work on Clone Wars. It's obvious they intended for there to be more seasons (at LEAST 1) because they had started making episodes for season 6. The other bad news is they seem to have absolutely no intention of addressing literally ANYTHING that the episodes don't answer. Basically we might get some seasons 6 episodes as standalones but only what they've already done. And they're even considering not releasing everything they've done (for whatever reason, maybe it's half done).

So if the episodes don't give answers about Asoka, Maul, Bane, etc we're out of luck. It sounds like they were only like halfway done when Disney stopped everything with the motivation of ignoring prequel tied things (since they're hated by so many) and focusing 100% on the new movies and spinoffs.

Now, I'm not really a fan of the prequels. And a LOT of the Clone Wars episodes were just bad. But this still pisses me off because some were good and just abandoning it after the buyout shows no care for the fans. Absolutely none. Disney is all about $$$. They don't see a future or as much money in the prequel tied things so they're simply ditching them and refocusing on the new Trilogy and spinoffs like Yoda.

[The_Chosen_1]

^ I feel exactly the same way. Exactly. It's maddening and disheartening what Disney is doing. The prequels weren't perfect, but The Clone Wars are a huge improvement over them - they even make the prequel films better, in my eyes. If it's true that Disney is indeed trying to distance themselves from all things prequel-related, I'll be pretty angry.

[Borex]

^ I feel exactly the same way. Exactly. It's maddening and disheartening what Disney is doing. The prequels weren't perfect, but The Clone Wars are a huge improvement over them - they even make the prequel films better, in my eyes. If it's true that Disney is indeed trying to distance themselves from all things prequel-related, I'll be pretty angry.

Hear hear!

[Sylvarsty]

Am I the only one that is kind of OK with TCW ending? Don't get me wrong I loved the show, especially what they were doing with Darth Maul, but It seems like we're going to get a decent wrap up with the season 6 content, and I wasn't expecting it to last much longer any way. I'm really excited to see what is next to come from Lucasfilm Animation and Episode 7.

[Brickdoctor]

Am I the only one that is kind of OK with TCW ending? Don't get me wrong I loved the show, especially what they were doing with Darth Maul, but It seems like we're going to get a decent wrap up with the season 6 content, and I wasn't expecting it to last much longer any way. I'm really excited to see what is next to come from Lucasfilm Animation and Episode 7.

No, you're not alone. I agree with you; when I first saw the last episode of Season 5, I mentioned in the EB Star Wars Blog's review that it wouldn't be that bad as the ending of the entire show.

[Faefrost]

Am I the only one that is kind of OK with TCW ending? Don't get me wrong I loved the show, especially what they were doing with Darth Maul, but It seems like we're going to get a decent wrap up with the season 6 content, and I wasn't expecting it to last much longer any way. I'm really excited to see what is next to come from Lucasfilm Animation and Episode 7.

You're not alone. There were a few more stories I would have liked to see. A few more questions answered. But as someone said, the last episode of season 5 was a good ending. This shows story and character arc has centered more on Asoka than on anyone else. She was the character with the growth throughout, and through her we watched Anakin and his arc, and the overall arc of the Jedi themselves. When Asoka walked away, you just felt that the Jedi had failed their last test, and had just cast out their last chance at redemption. You know what is coming next.

And that was the one problem with the show, that we knew going in. It had to be finite. We knew the start and the end. We watched Asoka mature from an 11 or 12 year old headstrong girl to a 14 year old. We knew the end, just because of the narrative constraints had to be fast approaching. And in some ways it was starting to get a little discomforting. Look at the somewhat maligned Young Jedi story arc. Yeah annoying. Cutesy kids with light sabers... Until you realize that these kids probably had a bare handful of weeks left to live. The clock was ticking. And the Birth of Darth Vader was fast approaching.

I am eager to see what Disney will be bringing to SW next. Both for do VII and for the rumored animated show. I hope that they do keep and use much of the good stuff from TCW. It would be nice to see Asoka, or Cad Bane, or Ventriss show up again down the road in some unexpected way. Rumor has it Dave Piloni may be working on a new project, so there is hope.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Faefrost

[Mr Man]

We watched Asoka mature from an 11 or 12 year old headstrong girl to a 14 year old.

Really? I thought she was 14 in the Film and 16 by the end of series 5. It is a good place to end, but all the Maul stuff should have been in series 4, and tied up in series 5. At least series 5 hasn't overwritten Chapter 25 of CW series 3.

[Brickadeer]

It is a good place to end, but all the Maul stuff should have been in series 4, and tied up in series 5. At least series 5 hasn't overwritten Chapter 25 of CW series 3.

I agree that there could have been worse endings.

What bothers me is that we'll never learn about the (planned) fates of Rex, Ventress, and Maul (not mention that I supposed there to be a reason for the fact that Cody in his capacity of a character was marginalized in the recent seasons). We'll never learn what Talzin planned, and I think there are a couple of more things that were planned and never will be realized.

So yes, we knew the show was finite, and yes, we knew it had to end. But that cannot change the fact that I'd prefer a situation in which the show was not canceled.

As for Episode 7 and the related stuff, I'm not excited about it, nor about any animated series leading to or being associated with Episode 7. Disney's recent decisions have shaped my perceived ability of Disney to come up with something I'll really like, and it'll take a lot to change this perception/attribution. I'm not looking forward to seeing the "original" actors as well, reminds to much of Star Trek VII.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Brickadeer

[Sylvarsty]

Edit: I fixed the link, I think it didn't work because I was using my ipod http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/12/star-wars-the-clone-wars-why-its-okay-that-its-ending

Here's a good article on the issue that I found. This has really influenced my opinion and helped me get over the shock of it being canceled.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Sylvarsty