Hero Factory 2012

[Omicron Squad Leader]

The legs and torsos are just as long as the ones on the villains from the first wave... did anyone care back then?

Most of the villains didn't have humanoid proportions from the start, the Heroes have done, so I (and basically everyone else), think they should stick to that trend.

[Jaller8240]

Core Hunter= Evil Raanu from the pics.

[dviddy]

Aaaaaaaand the legs in the actual set look a little too long. I think I can make fair judgement as I have had the set for over a month.

Anyone who thinks that her legs are too long has gotten too used to the weird proportions inherent in TLG's constraction figure sets. Her 2012 version is almost a perfect representation of the average human body, proportionally. Her and Rocka are literally the most realistic humanoid proportions we've ever gotten. They are glorious. They are not the same proportions as from the first few waves, that is true, and if you define those as their "default" proportions, then sure, these realistic proportions are not accurate. But to people like me, who have been clamoring for a more realistic humanoid portrayal for years now, this set is perfect.

[Aanchir]

Anyone who thinks that her legs are too long has gotten too used to the weird proportions inherent in TLG's constraction figure sets. Her 2012 version is almost a perfect representation of the average human body, proportionally. Her and Rocka are literally the most realistic humanoid proportions we've ever gotten. They are glorious. They are not the same proportions as from the first few waves, that is true, and if you define those as their "default" proportions, then sure, these realistic proportions are not accurate. But to people like me, who have been clamoring for a more realistic humanoid portrayal for years now, this set is perfect.

I've gotten used to the proportions I have used in my art classes, actually, wherein a human figure's head and torso are about half the length of its body. Even in your image, the "crotch" of the Breez set is too high compared to the human figure it's being compared to. Her knees are also far too high, which I tried to fix in my mod. My modded version's knees, compared to the knees of the human figure in your picture and the knees of the Breez set in your picture, would be at almost exactly the right height.

I mean this as no insult to the Breez set or to your taste in sets, but I think in the length of the arms and legs there is room for improvement. The 2.0 and 3.0 heroes had pretty reasonable proportions except the usually exaggerated width of the shoulders, which doesn't bother me much. The new Breez set is almost the same proportionally as Jetbug, a set which I loved but which was far from realistic.

Anyway, your image seems to be a human figure with slightly idealized (8 heads high) proportions. There's nothing wrong with those, but my concern is more with making sure the torso is proportionate to the legs and arms. Whether the figure stands a classical 8-heads-high like these new 24-module-tall heroes or a more realistic 6.5 to 7.5 heads high like the 2.0 21- and 22-module-tall heroes makes no difference to me as long as the body proportions are within reason. So for me, the new Breez's proportions, with the wrists dangling below the crotch and the feet high above the head when doing an exaggerated forward kick, is a dangerous step towards the proportions we got used to with latter-year BIONICLE sets like the Glatorian. Even if you don't see any problems with the Breez set itself, you should understand why I am concerned about what the larger Hero sets might imply for the future.

[Nightcruise]

I don't know if the parts are there and I'm just going over them and not picking them up. Are the wings and helmet parts from the Thornraxx set on LDD? I've seen other BO set parts, but its like those parts just escapes me on it.

I really want to try out his MOC idea on it, but I'm having no lucky finding those parts.

[dviddy]

I've gotten used to the proportions I have used in my art classes, actually, wherein a human figure's head and torso are about half the length of its body. Even in your image, the "crotch" of the Breez set is too high compared to the human figure it's being compared to. Her knees are also far too high, which I tried to fix in my mod. My modded version's knees, compared to the knees of the human figure in your picture and the knees of the Breez set in your picture, would be at almost exactly the right height.

I mean this as no insult to the Breez set or to your taste in sets, but I think in the length of the arms and legs there is room for improvement. The 2.0 and 3.0 heroes had pretty reasonable proportions except the usually exaggerated width of the shoulders, which doesn't bother me much. The new Breez set is almost the same proportionally as Jetbug, a set which I loved but which was far from realistic.

Anyway, your image seems to be a human figure with slightly idealized (8 heads high) proportions. There's nothing wrong with those, but my concern is more with making sure the torso is proportionate to the legs and arms. Whether the figure stands a classical 8-heads-high like these new 24-module-tall heroes or a more realistic 6.5 to 7.5 heads high like the 2.0 21- and 22-module-tall heroes makes no difference to me as long as the body proportions are within reason. So for me, the new Breez's proportions, with the wrists dangling below the crotch and the feet high above the head when doing an exaggerated forward kick, is a dangerous step towards the proportions we got used to with latter-year BIONICLE sets like the Glatorian. Even if you don't see any problems with the Breez set itself, you should understand why I am concerned about what the larger Hero sets might imply for the future.

The image is an actual person, with their features all removed in photoshop. The image and the set don't quite mesh, the biggest problem being that the set is at an angle, the photo not taken straight from the front like the woman's image was. And of course, trying to shrink one down to fit the other isn't a perfect science. When you account for that, it's an almost perfect match in the important areas. With the obvious exception of the lower arms, which I agree are too long (the biggest problem is that those fists are too big).

But it's the legs that I am focusing on, because that seemed to be the biggest area of difference in your modification. The shorter legs create a torso that is too big, and Breez looks very condensed and dwarfish. Which is how the original sets looked, no doubt. But not as good as the legs on the set. Which is, of course, far better than the terrible proportions we got in the latter years of Bionicle, and I don't think this set is on sliding slope to that kind of awful. The sets are going the other direction, it seems, towards a more realistic portrayal of the humanoid body. The biggest problem with the 2.0 and 3.0 heroes was that they often had arms and legs that were the same length, and that's not normal. The arms should be shorter than the legs. And Breez here suffers the same, for sure. But the legs are in proportion to the torso, as much as they can be with the parts TLG is producing. And when you consider that it looks like Breez is wearing rocket boots, her feet should add some height, because rocket boots would add some height.

I think the biggest problem is that it looks like you based your proportions on the mask, and I'm basing mine off of the head underneath.

[exxtrooper]

So I heard you guys like proportions

[The Alchemyst]

So I heard you guys like proportions

The white underneath looks nice on Breez. Lower legs are too short, just looks kind of stumpy.

Edited January 23, 2012 by The Alchemyst

[toatyger]

That's the best one by far, nice clean coler scheme.

[Aanchir]

The image is an actual person, with their features all removed in photoshop. The image and the set don't quite mesh, the biggest problem being that the set is at an angle, the photo not taken straight from the front like the woman's image was. And of course, trying to shrink one down to fit the other isn't a perfect science. When you account for that, it's an almost perfect match in the important areas. With the obvious exception of the lower arms, which I agree are too long (the biggest problem is that those fists are too big).

But it's the legs that I am focusing on, because that seemed to be the biggest area of difference in your modification. The shorter legs create a torso that is too big, and Breez looks very condensed and dwarfish. Which is how the original sets looked, no doubt. But not as good as the legs on the set. Which is, of course, far better than the terrible proportions we got in the latter years of Bionicle, and I don't think this set is on sliding slope to that kind of awful. The sets are going the other direction, it seems, towards a more realistic portrayal of the humanoid body. The biggest problem with the 2.0 and 3.0 heroes was that they often had arms and legs that were the same length, and that's not normal. The arms should be shorter than the legs. And Breez here suffers the same, for sure. But the legs are in proportion to the torso, as much as they can be with the parts TLG is producing. And when you consider that it looks like Breez is wearing rocket boots, her feet should add some height, because rocket boots would add some height.

I think the biggest problem is that it looks like you based your proportions on the mask, and I'm basing mine off of the head underneath.

I didn't base my proportions on the mask at all, I based them mainly on the combined length of the head and torso (although the proportions on my model also work according to the size of the head underneath-- I almost never use the mask as the basis for models' proportions).

Now, human body proportions are something there's a lot of disagreement about. Most systems for measuring them for drawing, etc. simplify things in different ways (and of course the systems will vary depending on the style and purpose of the drawing). But the system I'm most familiar with has the crotch about halfway up the total height of the body (sometimes slightly less), the knees about a quarter of the way up the total height of the body, the wrists just below halfway up the total height of the body, etc. And the proportions of my model are designed according to this.

A similar proportion guide to the one that I have typically based the proportions of my models on can be seen here. Note that in this illustration, like in my modification, the shins are shorter than the thighs, the legs are about the same length as the combined head and torso, and the overall figure is around 7-7.5 heads high rather than 8 heads high.

Again, the main problem I have with the set is that the legs are too long relative to the torso to seem "natural" to me. But what looks "natural" can be a matter of perception so it's understandable if your system of measuring proportions is different from mine.

[Omicron Squad Leader]

Anyone who thinks that her legs are too long has gotten too used to the weird proportions inherent in TLG's constraction figure sets.

Or it is just their opinion as a human being, hmm?

Regarding my justification, Aanchir basically summed up my sentiments.

[dviddy]

Again, the main problem I have with the set is that the legs are too long relative to the torso to seem "natural" to me. But what looks "natural" can be a matter of perception so it's understandable if your system of measuring proportions is different from mine.

While the body is a little too short versus the image I super-imposed over it, the difference is about a Technic thin beam's difference, enough that I consider it negligible. From there, while the knees don't match up, you'll notice that the legs are almost the exact same length on the two images, with Breez's feet being the difference maker (since like I said, she's got rocket boots, and if the model used in the human image had heels on, they'd be the same height). Also, in the drawing you posted, the thighs and the calves are about the same length, about one-and-a-half heads each*. I think the biggest problem between that and the model you made in LDD is that humans have kneecaps, and TLG's figures do not. I've always built MOCs as if the knee was included "under the armour", usually as part of the lower leg, similar to the way people draw superhero outfits with high boots as having a flair that comes up over the knee and obscures it. Ergo, the two leg lengths should be pretty similar, if not outright the same.

*"Upper legs", regarding the thigh, starts at about the same place the crotch ends, as to not include the hips and buttocks, which are not part of the legs in the sets, but are kind of part of the leg system on people.

[Aanchir]

While the body is a little too short versus the image I super-imposed over it, the difference is about a Technic thin beam's difference, enough that I consider it negligible. From there, while the knees don't match up, you'll notice that the legs are almost the exact same length on the two images, with Breez's feet being the difference maker (since like I said, she's got rocket boots, and if the model used in the human image had heels on, they'd be the same height). Also, in the drawing you posted, the thighs and the calves are about the same length, about one-and-a-half heads each*. I think the biggest problem between that and the model you made in LDD is that humans have kneecaps, and TLG's figures do not. I've always built MOCs as if the knee was included "under the armour", usually as part of the lower leg, similar to the way people draw superhero outfits with high boots as having a flair that comes up over the knee and obscures it. Ergo, the two leg lengths should be pretty similar, if not outright the same.

*"Upper legs", regarding the thigh, starts at about the same place the crotch ends, as to not include the hips and buttocks, which are not part of the legs in the sets, but are kind of part of the leg system on people.

Okie-dokes. I understand your reasoning. It's true, my concept for my Breez modification was originally done in front view on graph paper, and as such, I didn't really consider the "rocket boots" as an addition to the height. I can see how you feel the set has more realistic proportions in various ways.

I tend to measure the various limbs from joint-to-joint, center-to-center in both drawings and MOCs, so I measure the upper legs as starting from slightly above the crotch. In truth this worked quite well in BIONICLE, where canister sets tended to use the Toa Metru hip piece which has a crotch about 1M below the "hip joint"-- but in Hero Factory it doesn't work quite as smoothly to measure the legs this same way. If Hero Factory had the torso shell extend 1/2M-1M lower than the bottom of the torso beam, I agree, the Breez set would probably look plenty proportionate.

The upper legs on my MOC are only 1M longer than the lower legs, which I think works fairly effectively. I suppose I could increase the length of the lower legs by 1M, and in fact I did this on an LDD mod of the Rocka set, whose leg armor really wouldn't work well if the lower leg beams were as short as on this model. But I prefer the overall look of my Breez mod, which I suppose is just personal preference.

In general I wish LEGO constraction sets would try to have the upper and lower legs the same length or the upper leg longer. And I'm very glad that the new Hero Factory building system has made joint lengths a lot more flexible than in BIONICLE, where for a canister-set-sized figure you were typically limited to 5M or 7M upper limbs and 7M or 8M lower limbs unless you went with a totally custom design. It also helps that Hero Factory sets and MOCs aren't obligated to use the same joint pieces for arms and legs, as many latter-year BIONICLE sets and MOCs did.

[Phantoka_Chirox]

tl;dr :c

I don't care if breeze isn't proportionate, at least they should've made her more feminine. Give her some plump pillows or something.

[Bfahome]

Well it would probably be a hassle to carry a bunch of pillows around with her, and they wouldn't be very effective in combat. Her swords and gun and shield look plenty sufficient.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Bfahome

[Sid Sidious]

tl;dr :c

I don't care if breeze isn't proportionate, at least they should've made her more feminine. Give her some plump pillows or something.

She's a robot. Robots don't have genders.

[Omicron Squad Leader]

She's a robot. Robots don't have genders.

Then why did you just call her "she"?

[MakutaNocturn]

Then why did you just call her "she"?

Breeze is a gay. Dam dam dam dam. And he is pregnant. Seriously XD With Surge... or Furno... You know there was a small mission to an abandoned planet and... yeah...I think I said enough.

Omg I'm crazy today xD

She will have small Brezzies :3

BTW: I think they should make it more femine like Roodaka. She was quite a nice chick as a Bionicle character of course. Sidorak liked her veeery much :P Her feet were also femine. So, I think they shall improve her desing in HF sets. But that's only my idea.

[Play With Fire]

Breeze is a gay. Dam dam dam dam. And he is pregnant. Seriously XD With Surge... or Furno... You know there was a small mission to an abandoned planet and... yeah...I think I said enough.

Omg I'm crazy today xD

She will have small Brezzies :3

BTW: I think they should make it more femine like Roodaka. She was quite a nice chick as a Bionicle character of course. Sidorak liked her veeery much :P Her feet were also femine. So, I think they shall improve her desing in HF sets. But that's only my idea.

To be honest I'm fine Breez not being too overly feminine, she's a robot designed for combat scenarios, do you really expect her to be accurate to a human female? Though it would be nice to see a female villain set in the future with a Roodaka-esque appearance.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Play With Fire

[ZORK64]

To be honest I'm fine Breez not being too overly feminine, she's a robot designed for combat scenarios, do you really expect her to be accurate to a human female? Though it would be nice to see a female villain set in the future with a Roodaka-esque appearance.

I totally agree with you. Breez is supposed to wear battle armour, so I'm totally fine what she looks like in toy form (except for the chin of the 2.0 head, though).

Besides, the current Breez does not only feature her 1.0 head and feet (which already help to make her look more feminine like the others), she also looks like Samus Aran with those bulky shoulders, and that is undeniably awesome.

[Kalhiki]

I say all Heores are built the same, and the Quaza Core determines the "gender." Since the Core is put in last, they can't determine what the gender will be until after they put the Hero together. Future upgrades and armor changes can be made to give the appearance of being female.

So, yeah. To me, I don't can what the figure looks like. Like others have said, they're robots. Just because some are female doesn't mean they need to look like it. Sure it'd be nice, but still.

Kalhiki

[CabooseBM]

Besides, the universe needs more truely Strika-esque female characters in it.

[Front]

... You know there was a small mission to an abandoned planet and... yeah...I think I said enough.

Omg I'm crazy today xD

She will have small Brezzies :3

ehh, the first born was Furno Jr. But he might get sisters later.

[Logan McOwen]

ehh, the first born was Furno Jr. But he might get sisters later.

<3

Then why did you just call her "she"?

Because this is the persona the character has been given. It's like when people name their cars. You may call your Ferrari 'Abella', or your Land Rover 'Dave'. It doesn't really decide gender. Although these are artificially intelligent robots, so they do act with certain gender-characteristics, but that's maybe just how they've been 'taught'.

[Aanchir]

Now, I don't feel too strongly about whether female characters in Hero Factory have feminine characteristics. They are robots, but one mustn't take that too seriously-- they are clearly meant for humans to identify with them, much like many other fictional robots like those in Transformers.

With that said, I don't feel they especially need super-shapely female bodies just because they're female in story. I was plenty happy with Breez 2.0, who looked pretty much gender-ambiguous-- her products page animation on the Hero Factory website could make her look feminine just by giving her slightly feminine movements and having her sway her hips a bit. The new Breez set's product page animation makes this subtler, but her movements are still made more graceful than, say, Surge, and coupled with her somewhat feminine mask piece it's enough to make her appear female.

The new Breez set is still plenty feminine IMO, even though her armor looks slightly less so with its more defined muscle-like armor plating. If you feel she should be more feminine, you're welcome to modify the set to your tastes, but I personally see no reason TLG needs to incorporate a buxom female chest in the official sets of this particular character. If we ever do get a character with a more obvious gender along the lines of Roodaka (although hopefully less of a blatant sex icon), then I'd welcome it, as there's no reason a curvy female-looking bot is automatically less realistic than a burly male-looking bot. But I don't think it's the least bit urgent, as I've been more than satisfied with the renditions of Breez we've had so far.