Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Professor Flitwick]

Secondly, having 4 players can be bad enough when it comes to waiting on people to declare an action let alone 8 players, thus this hampers the experience of the players who are keeping up with the quest on a consistent basis.

But surely it would be handled the same, no matter if it were an eight player party, or a three player party. If somebody hasn't handed in their action, the host picks their actions for the next round. I fail to see how it has any baring on the amount of players.

[JimBee]

But surely it would be handled the same, no matter if it were an eight player party, or a three player party. If somebody hasn't handed in their action, the host picks their actions for the next round. I fail to see how it has any baring on the amount of players.

But there's a greater chance that the actions won't get in on time with more players, and it's a lot more to keep track of. Not to mention balancing enemies.

[Brickdoctor]

Here's what I've got so far for a Lion Knight Expert Class. It's a very versatile class, with a Shield that's provides both offensive and defensive buffs to the rest of the party. It potentially has some serious offensive power, but it's going to be a support class and it can't take on a leading role. The class is also quite limited in its choices of weapons. Stats are not finalized, of course, but I wanted to see how much interest there would be in playing such a class.

(class name is a WIP)

Looking at this now, I think it might be better if Miss was just a plain Miss.

[CMP]

Seems interesting, but it sounds a lot like Scuba's Infiltrator class, and I can't say the weaponry options are very good. Not to say it's particularly bad, it's that most of the specialized weaponry (eg, with special effects) are swords, staves, or daggers. (Rangers don't count, they only take half damage when in the back row so it's somewhat balanced.) Their Job trait is pretty much pointless, I love the idea, but generally job traits are meant to have positive effects. Phalanx seems cool, a bit like Berserker, but with an actual defensive twist.

As for the name, maybe Skirmisher, or Peltast?

[Kadabra]

Here's what I've got so far for a Lion Knight Expert Class. It's a very versatile class, with a Shield that's provides both offensive and defensive buffs to the rest of the party. It potentially has some serious offensive power, but it's going to be a support class and it can't take on a leading role. The class is also quite limited in its choices of weapons. Stats are not finalized, of course, but I wanted to see how much interest there would be in playing such a class.

*snip*

Looking at this now, I think it might be better if Miss was just a plain Miss.

Personally, I love it, and if Arasmyth was a melee hero it would definitely be something I'd like to try. I think Cautious Hit is fine as is.

[Brickdoctor]

Seems interesting, but it sounds a lot like Scuba's Infiltrator class, and I can't say the weaponry options are very good. Not to say it's particularly bad, it's that most of the specialized weaponry (eg, with special effects) are swords, staves, or daggers. (Rangers don't count, they only take half damage when in the back row so it's somewhat balanced.)

I must have missed that class. Do you have a link?

The limited weaponry is to balance the sheer offensive power of the class. It can very easily be dealing triple Damage with every hit. Spears can also be used by Barbarians and their advanced classes, so maybe a class like this would encourage QMs to introduce more spears.

Their Job trait is pretty much pointless, I love the idea, but generally job traits are meant to have positive effects.

That, too, was to balance out the offensive power of the class. This class also has a positive effect in its Battle Style; all six of the Basic Classes do not. I could tone it down to just one of the two effects of the Job Trait, though.

As for the name, maybe Skirmisher, or Peltast?

'Peltast' seems too specialized, but I like 'Skirmisher'.

[CMP]

I must have missed that class. Do you have a link?

Sure.

The limited weaponry is to balance the sheer offensive power of the class. It can very easily be dealing triple Damage with every hit. Spears can also be used by Barbarians and their advanced classes, so maybe a class like this would encourage QMs to introduce more spears.

I don't know about that, you're the one with Skrall in your quest. Like I said, it's not a particularly bad choice, it's just that QMs like to have the most versatile weapons be the ones with special effects.

That, too, was to balance out the offensive power of the class. This class also has a positive effect in its Battle Style; all six of the Basic Classes do not. I could tone it down to just one of the two effects of the Job Trait, though.

Basic classes, no, but these classes are going to be unlocked at level 30. People will have put in a lot of time and effort into this game to be the party leader's lackey. Although it does make sense considering the triple damage.

[Brickdoctor]

Sure.

I see what you mean. Maybe I'll nerf the Battle Style and buff the Shield, so that this class becomes a little more focused on buffing its allies instead of drawing on them to buff itself.

I don't know about that, you're the one with Skrall in your quest.

Well, in a, ah, normal quest that didn't have a gazillion Humanoid enemies, Skrall would be a lot less powerful.

Basic classes, no, but these classes are going to be unlocked at level 30. People will have put in a lot of time and effort into this game to be the party leader's lackey. Although it does make sense considering the triple damage.

I could bring it down to only "Cannot be Party Leader".

[CMP]

I could bring it down to only "Cannot be Party Leader".

But to balance it you could add in "Automatically becomes Second-in-Command Party Leader."

As for the battle style, maybe everyone in the same row as the Spearman, including itself, deals doubled damage?

Edited May 29, 2012 by CallMePie

[Scubacarrot]

Although I like the class, BD, and it something unique and that we don't have yet, I must say I am not too sure I like the fact that it's uniqueness (mechanics wise) is the same as the class I created. My class is basically finished and approved (in an only slightly different form than the post CMP linked, done in PM with Sandy), so... Yeah... I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from, and please don't see this as negative critique, but I fear it might be a bit too similair.

[Brickdoctor]

Although I like the class, BD, and it something unique and that we don't have yet, I must say I am not too sure I like the fact that it's uniqueness (mechanics wise) is the same as the class I created. My class is basically finished and approved (in an only slightly different form than the post CMP linked, done in PM with Sandy), so... Yeah... I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from, and please don't see this as negative critique, but I fear it might be a bit too similair.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Maybe I'll remove the tripled Damage entirely, so that this becomes purely a support class. Your class draws on presence of allies to increase its own Damage, so my class would then become the direct opposite, buffing its allies.

[Scubacarrot]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Maybe I'll remove the tripled Damage entirely, so that this becomes purely a support class. Your class draws on presence of allies to increase its own Damage, so my class would then become the direct opposite, buffing its allies.

That sounds like a cool idea

[Flipz]

Well, Xarrzan gave me permission to tinker with his Engineer Expert Class idea, so here it is:

Engineer

Additional Health:

+X

Additional Ether:

+X

Weapons:

Engineers use specialized tools for the task, like wrenches, hammers, and gears.

Job Trait:

Mechanical Expertise - Allows the Engineer to repair or alter various machinery encountered.

Battle Style:

Construction - Engineers build Constructs to aid their party, and cannot attack physically. However, they cannot be targeted by enemies.

1. SHIELD: Eureka! – The Engineer is inspired by an idea, restoring Health to their Construct equal two times their Weapon Power added to their Level and Ether to themselves equal to 1/2 their Weapon Power (e.g., WP:4 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 13 Health restored to Construct and WP:4 ÷ 2 = 2 Ether restored to self). Additionally, the entire party inflicts double damage to Mechanical enemies next turn.

2. POWER UP/FULL REPAIR: The Engineer spends 1 Ether to grant a random positive effect to the Construct for the next round. Optionally, the Engineer can spend 1 Ether to repair his or her Construct with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level (e.g., WP: 4 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 13 Health restored to Construct).

3. TINKER/MODERATE REPAIR: The Engineer spends 1 Ether to grant a random negative effect to the Construct’s next attack. Optionally, the Engineer can spend 1 Ether to heal his or her Construct with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level (e.g., WP: 4 + Lvl 5 = 9 Health restored to Construct).

4. JURY-RIG/LESSER REPAIR: The Engineer spends 1 Ether to grant the Construct SP equal to one-half his or her Weapon Power for the next Round (e.g., WP:4 ÷ 2 = SP:2 to Construct for next Round). Optionally, the Engineer can spend 1 Ether to heal his or her Construct with strength equal to their weapon power (e.g., WP: 4 = 4 Health restored to Construct).

5. CONTEMPLATE: The Engineer concentrates to regain 1 Ether.

6. CONTEMPLATE: The Engineer concentrates to regain 1 Ether.

QM Note:

Engineers may use Scrolls to grant a specific effect to their Constructs; however, this will require twice the listed Ether cost of the Scroll.

CONSTRUCT

Base Health:

Constructs have Health equal to their creator.

Base Ether:

none

Weapons:

The Construct may be fitted with any weapon the Engineer could use before they became an Engineer. However, this must be done at a forge in a town. Adding or removing a weapon from a Construct costs 25 Gold, plus 5 Gold for each additional weapon the Construct carries. Shields may be fitted (provided the Engineer could previously use a shield), but Artifacts may not.

Switching between weapons requires one turn

.

Job Trait(s):

Automated - The Construct’s abilities are determined by their Engineer’s previous Job Class and the weapons they carry. The Construct retains one Job Trait that formerly belonged to its creator; this Job Trait should be listed in the construct's stats and may only be changed at the Training Room in Heroica Hall.

1. SHIELD: Electromagnet - The Construct produces a field of magnetic energy, drawing all enemy attacks next Round but also halving their power for that turn. As a side-effect, the field steals Gold from each enemy equal to one-half its Level.

2. CRITICAL HIT/RANGED CRITICAL HIT: The Construct attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to the Engineer’s level (e.g., WP:6 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 17 Damage). If the weapon is ranged, the Construct deals full damage, even from the Back Row.

3. HIT/RANGED HIT: The Construct attacks the target with strength equal to its weapon power added to the Engineer’s level (e.g., WP:6 + Lvl 5 = 11 Damage). If the weapon is ranged, the Construct deals full damage, even from the Back Row.

4. MEMORY BANK: The Construct uses the Shield effect for its user’s previous Base or Advanced class. The choice should be listed in the character’s stats and may only be changed in the Heroica Hall Training Room.

5. DAMAGE: The Construct is struck by its opponent.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Construct is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

QM Note:

The Construct is Mechanical type, and follows corresponding elemental strengths and weaknesses (takes double damage from Lightning-elemental attacks, takes no damage from Wind-elemental attacks). The Construct is unaffected by healing, consumables, or Phoenix Essences. If disabled (Knocked Out), the Engineer may expend 10 Ether to repair it; this follows all other rules for revival (as if with a Phoenix Essence).

It's still a bit clunky in parts (even after two different iterations, I'm still not quite happy with the Construct's Shield roll), but it's a lot more streamlined than it was. I'm particularly happy with the changes to the Engineer itself; making it a non-active combatant really emphasizes the indirect nature of the Engineer, and the effect-granting makes it feel a lot different from other classes as well. I considered raising the Ether cost for each buff, but I feel the randomness of the effect granted (as well as the 1-Round timeframe) mostly balance for it. The Construct still feels off to me, though retaining a portion of the Engineer's former abilities feels like a step in the right direction. To me, the Construct is a representation of who the Engineer was before becoming an Engineer, so the weapon restrictions and Memory Bank felt like the right choice. It also makes Basic and Advanced Class choices matter more at the Expert level, something I really like.

C&C is, of course, welcome.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Flipz

[CMP]

It's still extremely complicated. The idea is cool, but it's a lot to keep track of.

[Flipz]

It's still extremely complicated. The idea is cool, but it's a lot to keep track of.

That's what was said about the original idea, and I tried to slim it down.

Which part still needs streamlining, the Engineer or the Construct? For the Engineer, think of it as a basic Cleric with status buff options instead of attacking and Meditate instead of Special Guard.

for the Construct, I agree, it still could use some streamlining.

[Palathadric]

But they wouldn't be able to get KO'ed then, right? In which case the party would never be able to lose. I don't think it makes sense that he cannot be targeted.

[Waterbrick Down]

The construct isn't bad as far as abilities, the engineer seems complicated with all of the buffs. Brick Doctor I like your class, but as has already been said it was similar to Scubacarrot's. I would however really like to see a more defense buff oriented class that still isn't a killing machine.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Oooh...! Give me that Spearman class! I think it is balanced perfectly. Too bad I have to wait for level 30 to get it.

[Flipz]

But they wouldn't be able to get KO'ed then, right? In which case the party would never be able to lose. I don't think it makes sense that he cannot be targeted.

If the Construct is KO'd, the Engineer can't attack the enemy at all, so if the Construct goes down AND the rest of the party goes down, the battle is lost as normal.

[CMP]

Engineer

Additional Health:

+X

Additional Ether:

+X

Weapons:

Engineers use only smaller emergency weapons, like daggers, clubs, staves, and longswords.

Job Trait:

Mechanical Expertise - Allows the Engineer to repair or alter various machinery encountered.

Battle Style:

Construction - Engineers build Constructs to aid their party, but cannot physically attack.

1. SHIELD: Eureka! – The Engineer is inspired by an idea, granting a random positive effect to their Construct the lasts until the Engineer rolls another SHIELD.

2. MAJOR REPAIRS: The Engineer can spend 1 Ether to repair his or her Construct with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level (e.g., WP: 4 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 13 Health restored to Construct).

3. MODERATE REPAIRS: The Engineer can spend 1 Ether to heal his or her Construct with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level (e.g., WP: 4 + Lvl 5 = 9 Health restored to Construct).

4. CONTEMPLATE: The Engineer concentrates to regain 1 Ether.

5. DAMAGE: The Engineer takes damage from one random enemy equal to the enemy's level.

6. MALFUNCTION: The Engineer takes damage equal to their Construct's weapon power added to its level. (e.g., Construct's WP: 4 + Lvl 5 = 9 Health taken to the Engineer).

CONSTRUCT

Base Health:

Constructs have Health equal to their creator.

Base Ether:

none

Weapons:

The Construct can use any non-ranged

basic

weapon (no special effects or enchantments).

1. SHIELD: Electromagnet - The Construct produces a field of magnetic energy, dealing Lightning elemental damage to all enemies equal to twice its weapon power added to its level (e.g., WP:6 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 17 Damage)., while also Stunning itself and all enemies for the next round.

2. CRITICAL HIT: The Construct attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to the Engineer’s level (e.g., WP:6 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 17 Damage).

3. HIT: The Construct attacks the target with strength equal to its weapon power added to the Engineer’s level (e.g., WP:6 + Lvl 5 = 11 Damage).

4. ZAP: The Constructs Stuns itself and its opponent for the next round.

5. DAMAGE: The Construct is struck by its opponent.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Construct is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

QM Note:

The Construct is Mechanical type, and follows corresponding elemental strengths and weaknesses (takes double damage from Lightning-elemental attacks, takes no damage from Wind-elemental attacks). The Construct is unaffected by healing, consumables, or Phoenix Essences. If disabled (Knocked Out), the Engineer may expend 10 Ether to repair it; this follows all other rules for revival (as if with a Phoenix Essence).

...I see what you mean, I don't feel like I shortened it at all.

[Brickdoctor]

I would however really like to see a more defense buff oriented class that still isn't a killing machine.

I think the Knight already fills that role, which is why I was going for a more all-around type of class.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I think the Knight already fills that role, which is why I was going for a more all-around type of class.

But that what the knight and whatever class combo is for. This is a pikeman, and a phalanx, they need to be a extremely defensive class, not all-around. Also, now that I thought about it, a quick idea is that it could be almost like an evoker. Instead of pets or creatures, you could "summon" extra soldiers to perform a phalanx.

[Waterbrick Down]

I think the Knight already fills that role, which is why I was going for a more all-around type of class.

The knight is good in that Sentinal provides protection for its shield roll but that is where it ends. I would like to see a class where its main goal is just to defend and buff the parties defensive stats, i.e. a battle style where it can protect the party with rolls of critical hit, or hit, or miss.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Waterbrick Down

[Palathadric]

If the Construct is KO'd, the Engineer can't attack the enemy at all, so if the Construct goes down AND the rest of the party goes down, the battle is lost as normal.

Okay, I get it. For some reason I thought that when he went "Eureka" he would make a new Construct. Don't know what put that in my head!

[Flipz]

Engineer

Additional Health:

+X

Additional Ether:

+X

Weapons:

Engineers use only smaller emergency weapons, like daggers, clubs, staves, and longswords.

Job Trait:

Mechanical Expertise - Allows the Engineer to repair or alter various machinery encountered.

Battle Style:

Construction - Engineers build Constructs to aid their party, but cannot physically attack.

1. SHIELD: Eureka! – The Engineer is inspired by an idea, granting a random positive effect to their Construct the lasts until the Engineer rolls another SHIELD.

2. MAJOR REPAIRS: The Engineer can spend 1 Ether to repair his or her Construct with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level (e.g., WP: 4 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 13 Health restored to Construct).

3. MODERATE REPAIRS: The Engineer can spend 1 Ether to heal his or her Construct with strength equal to their weapon power added to their level (e.g., WP: 4 + Lvl 5 = 9 Health restored to Construct).

4. CONTEMPLATE: The Engineer concentrates to regain 1 Ether.

5. DAMAGE: The Engineer takes damage from one random enemy equal to the enemy's level.

6. MALFUNCTION: The Engineer takes damage equal to their Construct's weapon power added to its level. (e.g., Construct's WP: 4 + Lvl 5 = 9 Health taken to the Engineer).

CONSTRUCT

Base Health:

Constructs have Health equal to their creator.

Base Ether:

none

Weapons:

The Construct can use any non-ranged

basic

weapon (no special effects or enchantments).

1. SHIELD: Electromagnet - The Construct produces a field of magnetic energy, dealing Lightning elemental damage to all enemies equal to twice its weapon power added to its level (e.g., WP:6 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 17 Damage)., while also Stunning itself and all enemies for the next round.

2. CRITICAL HIT: The Construct attacks the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to the Engineer’s level (e.g., WP:6 x 2 + Lvl 5 = 17 Damage).

3. HIT: The Construct attacks the target with strength equal to its weapon power added to the Engineer’s level (e.g., WP:6 + Lvl 5 = 11 Damage).

4. ZAP: The Constructs Stuns itself and its opponent for the next round.

5. DAMAGE: The Construct is struck by its opponent.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Construct is struck by the opponent’s special skill.

QM Note:

The Construct is Mechanical type, and follows corresponding elemental strengths and weaknesses (takes double damage from Lightning-elemental attacks, takes no damage from Wind-elemental attacks). The Construct is unaffected by healing, consumables, or Phoenix Essences. If disabled (Knocked Out), the Engineer may expend 10 Ether to repair it; this follows all other rules for revival (as if with a Phoenix Essence).

...I see what you mean, I don't feel like I shortened it at all.

No, that is a significant improvement. I like Malfunction, but I'd swap out Damage for another Contemplate. The Construct, on the other hand...it feels too simple now. There's no real point to intricate tinkering with it in this form. The weapons rules should come back. Shield's been nerfed too much, too, I prefer drawing the attacks like Aura, just with a different side-effect. I also really, REALLY prefer Memory Bank to Zap, Zap's just too plain for my taste.

If Memory Bank is just too complex, I have a different idea:

4. TARGET ACQUIRED: The Construct Marks the chosen enemy, dealing double damage to it until a new enemy is Marked.