Maersk Train Problems

[Toastie]

I tried some WD-40 (note: I've read somewhere that this might be bad for lego bricks, so I can not recommend that you do this too) and I estimate that this reduces friction by about half ... My advice, if you want to pull a second Maersk engine, is go to a hobby store, and ask for some plastic-to-plastic lubricant.

Hi Hoeij,

true, WD40 is not the best choice in the long term. ABS should not suffer from silicone based lubricants though. I'd use that (well I am using it). But in any case, after a long time the lubricant may have to be replaced, since all solvents eventually go away into the void leaving some rather sticky non volatile stuff. Remove that with a cloth and put on some new lubricant. We are talking about many months to years here.

And use really really little amounts of silicone based lubricants. It does not improve at all when soaking the pieces, in contrast. The stuff goes everywhere and more importantly the residuals build up and eventually make things worse.

Regards,

Thorsten

[hoeij]

true, WD40 is not the best choice in the long term. ABS should not suffer from silicone based lubricants though. I'd use that (well I am using it). But in any case, after a long time the lubricant may have to be replaced, since all solvents eventually go away into the void leaving some rather sticky non volatile stuff. Remove that with a cloth and put on some new lubricant. We are talking about many months to years here.

I've used WD-40 for a few other things, more than a year ago, and those still run perfectly smoothly. Using microscopic quantities is best (I think it's enough if you have a layer that's just a few molecules thick), and, by using tiny amounts you also don't get it on parts where you don't want it (the track!). So I think that the lubricated Maersk engine will run smoothly for a very long time, and won't have to be re-lubricated for years.

Even if the WD-40 would affect the lego, I'm sure that the net effect is still less damage (less wear) than if it was not lubricated. Every time that you run an unlubricated Maersk engine, you are constantly rubbing hard on the axle and the hole in the technic brick. Lubricated it runs 3 times smoother, so there's much less rubbing, and hence less wear on the lego's. I'm sure that that more than compensates for whatever damage the WD-40 might do to the lego ABS.

I've read elsewhere on eurobricks that there are lubricants that are better for lego (I didn't think it was worth it to drive to the hobby store because I have spare technic bricks/axles, and in any case I don't really believe there'll be any damage).

Two years ago I had a burned out 9V motor, and since then I do everything I can to prevent unnecessary wear on the motors. A tiny amount of lubricant on a few cheap technic bricks will drastically reduce the wear on the motor(s) and hence prolong their lifespan. I think that's especially important for 9V and 12V motors, because they don't make those anymore.

PS. Is there a consensus about which lubricant is best? The value of the technic bricks is much less than the gasoline spent on a trip to the hobby store, but if I'm there anyway for something, I'd like to pick up the correct lubricant (if I know which one to pick).

Edited May 20, 2011 by hoeij

[Toastie]

... Using microscopic quantities is best (I think it's enough if you have a layer that's just a few molecules thick), and, by using tiny amounts you also don't get it on parts where you don't want it (the track!). So I think that the lubricated Maersk engine will run smoothly for a very long time, and won't have to be re-lubricated for years.

... and that is the true trick. WD40 is not the best choice when you put on too much. Just spray a good amount into a container (e.g., the cap) and wait for a long time. The residual is quite different when using a tiny amount. In the latter case you are getting down to the real lubricating stuff (Molybdenum compounds) rather than a mixture of residual high boiling solvent stuff mixed with MoSx.

I don't think there is consensus on the "best" lubricant; I have the feeling that "how much is used" is affecting the long-term performance and thus many diverging reports on performance are posted.

Still, I'd go with silicone based lubricants. That stuff is chemically dead, including the solvents used (as neat MoSx is as well).

And finally, reducing friction properly will increase the lifetime of an ABS model for sure! You are absolutely right, careful lubrication will prevent possible damage to moving/bed parts rather than adversely affecting them.

Regards,

Thorsten

[AussieJimbo]

Even if the WD-40 would affect the lego, I'm sure that the net effect is still less damage (less wear) than if it was not lubricated. Every time that you run an unlubricated Maersk engine, you are constantly rubbing hard on the axle and the hole in the technic brick. Lubricated it runs 3 times smoother, so there's much less rubbing, and hence less wear on the lego's. I'm sure that that more than compensates for whatever damage the WD-40 might do to the lego ABS.

That's my view too. When motorising my extended tram from 2 Public Transportation sets (standard front and back sections, two intermediate sections and a PF motor centre section) I found that the mini rail wheels just had too much friction to run well. You could just about shove it round the track on full power with heaps of wheel spin from the motor and noise from the other cars but it was obviously putting unacceptable stress on components.

I knew WD-40 was not ideal due to the solvents but decided the damage that must be occurring due to friction was a bigger issue. With a tiny amount of WD-40 on the miniwheel axles the change was dramatic. I went from something that didn't really work properly to a nice free running model.

You do need to replace the lubrication from time to time and it is a dust magnet, particularly as I run on carpet but that's an easy trade off for the benefit you get. Decanting the WD-40 first is a good idea, might try that next time if I haven't picked up some silicon based lubricant yet.

I'll get around to doing a photographic comparison between the lubricated wheels and a brand new set to see if I can identify the combined damage of WD-40 and wear and tear.

:classic:

Edited May 21, 2011 by AussieJimbo

[Carefree_Dude]

your engine will have more pulling power if you swap out the rubber bands on the motor wheels for thicker O rings... so far i've managed to pull 30 cars with just one PF motor this route.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

... and that is the true trick. WD40 is not the best choice when you put on too much. Just spray a good amount into a container (e.g., the cap) and wait for a long time. The residual is quite different when using a tiny amount. In the latter case you are getting down to the real lubricating stuff (Molybdenum compounds) rather than a mixture of residual high boiling solvent stuff mixed with MoSx.

I don't think there is consensus on the "best" lubricant; I have the feeling that "how much is used" is affecting the long-term performance and thus many diverging reports on performance are posted.

Still, I'd go with silicone based lubricants. That stuff is chemically dead, including the solvents used (as neat MoSx is as well).

And finally, reducing friction properly will increase the lifetime of an ABS model for sure! You are absolutely right, careful lubrication will prevent possible damage to moving/bed parts rather than adversely affecting them.

Regards,

Thorsten

Hi Toastie,

I always love your technical approach!

[AussieJimbo]

your engine will have more pulling power if you swap out the rubber bands on the motor wheels for thicker O rings... so far i've managed to pull 30 cars with just one PF motor this route.

I just replaced the washers in a couple of taps. The O-rings looked OK so I left them. Now I've got a couple of spares to try this trick with, they might be a bit chunky though.

Also picked up a couple of different lubricant sprays, one is a silicon spray but doesn't specifically say it's OK with plastic.

The other one called INOX-MX3 says it will not harm plastic but I don't know what is in it but it says it's non toxic.

Will see how these perform.

:classic:

Edited May 21, 2011 by AussieJimbo

[mrblue]

As Nils suggests we have to find out a better lubricant ...but the way is correct!

has anyone tried with the easy to find olive oil? sometimes it makes miracles, and I have never heard it damages plastic...

maybe it's worth a try

have a nice train lego day

mrBlue

[AussieJimbo]

Yeah I've used olive oil in various applications as a stop gap lubricating oil. You can also use it to drive in screws easier/less likely to break.

It's on my list of things to try. I'm going to try to do a semi-scientific test of the various options I've got now.

I'll have to build some kind of lego test rig to measure the force required to get a loaded set of mini wheels or brick built bogey moving.

Any ideas? Maybe some sort of analog mechanism or if I recall correctly mindstorms lets you specify the torque to apply to the motor and perhaps I can measure things that way.

Anyone built any Lego measuring equipment?

:classic:

[Capt. Stabbin]

As far as lubrication goes, I use dielectric grease. It's mineral oil based and very light, and it says it is safe for plastic parts. It worked wonders on my EN. I have not tried it on my Maresk yet. I also stick to the "a little dab will do ya" motto.

As to using olive oil, I would not use it. Olive oil will degrade over time leaving a nasty sticky residue, due to it's organic properties.

I hope this helps.

Capt. Stabbin

[AussieJimbo]

Now that I think about it, you're right about olive oil Capt. S.

It might be effective for a short time but after a while it would get very sticky.

Where did you apply the lubricant to the EN?

:classic:

Edited May 21, 2011 by AussieJimbo

[Toastie]

Now that I think about it, you're right about olive oil Capt. S.

It might be effective for a short time but after a while it would get very sticky.

Absolutely true!!!

Don't use olive oil. Olive oil is healthy - which means it is rather "easy to digest" for the body. That translates to "easy to degrade" - which is basically the same thing ...

Olive oil is a highly variable and very complex mixture of chemical compounds. Most of them are available for digestion ... and thus don't like light (a good olive oil comes in a dark container), temperature, oxygen and the like. When you run your steamers, man ...

I know, sounds all nerdy, but over at the Technic forum, several people had nightmares with olive oil lubricated linear actuators. Worked fine in the beginning - in the end, there was a search for a solvent to get the sticky grease out again ...

So don't use it.

Regards,

Thorsten

[hoeij]

Removing the rubber bands from the wheels that are not attached to a motor works away some friction on curved track.

I only have rubber bands/rings on the 4 wheels that are attached to the train motor (on all my trains).

Removing the rubber bands/rings is done easily with a toothpick, slide it between the flange and the rubber and then gently push it in the direction the wheels normally rotate.

By the way, this is good advice too.

I did encounter another problem with my train. This train is 10 feet long, 2 Maersk engines, 4 Maersk cars with 1 Maersk container each, and another 4 light-weight MOC cars. It is supposed to run a whole day. With 2 motors in the first engine, if I use PF then I'll have to change the batteries during the show. So I was thinking it'd be easier to use two 9V motors in the front engine. The trouble is, with speed setting #2 (which is about 4 volts) the train runs the right speed when it is on the part of the track that is close to the power supply. But when it gets to the other side, the voltage there drops by 2 volts. So the train stops there unless I use a higher speed setting (but then it'll go faster than I want it to go when it gets back to the side that has the power supply).

So to get a constant speed along the track, I'll either have to use PF instead of 9V, or, add long wiring underneath the tables to make sure that both sides are equally supplied with electricity (which adds to setup time) (this loop has 134 track pieces, so the other side of the track is some distance away).

With 2 PF motors, how long would the batteries last? Does it last longer at low speed, or is it the same?

Edited May 23, 2011 by hoeij

[Scorpio]

With 2 PF motors, how long would the batteries last? Does it last longer at low speed, or is it the same?

The show we had at the end of April I ran my Maersk train which had two engines, each engine having one battery box and motor and 14 Maersk cars with 6x32 containers on each car. The batteries were from CostCo and the whole thing ran for only an hour. I had my speed setting on 4 until it started to slow down then bumped it up to 6.

I ran into the same problem with the power drop on the 9V. The train kept dying in one corner. One remedy was to put an engine on the front and one on the back. It worked well. For my train, an extra motor would have helped as well.

[Legoless]

Has anyone tried using petroleum jelly as a lubricant (stop sniggering at the back!)? I remember when rubiks cubes were all the rage back in the '80s and vaseline was the lubricant of choice. I don't know which plastic those cubes were constructed out of. Obviously it would need to be applied very sparingly.

Petroleum jelly (like most oils) does attack rubber, but I think it ought to be ok for ABS.

[hoeij]

The show we had at the end of April I ran my Maersk train which had two engines, each engine having one battery box and motor and 14 Maersk cars with 6x32 containers on each car. The batteries were from CostCo and the whole thing ran for only an hour. I had my speed setting on 4 until it started to slow down then bumped it up to 6.

I ran into the same problem with the power drop on the 9V. The train kept dying in one corner. One remedy was to put an engine on the front and one on the back. It worked well. For my train, an extra motor would have helped as well.

Only one hour??? My train should use less batteries because there are fewer cars, and they weigh less (I'm only using one Maersk container per car). Still, I don't want to change batteries that often. The show is about 7 hours, it's a bit too much if I have to replace batteries so many times.

That means I'll have to use the 9V motors, but as you noticed, it slows down on the far side of the track. To prevent that, I'll have to supply power to all corners of the track.

The only way I can see how to reach these corners is to make the 9V-track connectors longer (one of them will need to be about 15 feet long, so I'll have to cut the wires, and insert additional wire in them. Perhaps that's not a "pure lego" solution, but I don't see any other way to do it because the 9V extension wires are way too short).

[markz68]

Well, I just finished assembling my Maersk Train. I am missing (2) 1x6 plates that go in the wheel assembly so my engine is not usable. I might be able to stop by a Lego store tomorrow. Do they even stock that piece in the pick-a-brick area? I have never bought bricks.

My PF stuff gets here next week, so won't that replace one of the wheel assemblies anyway?

[markz68]

Well, I just finished assembling my Maersk Train. I am missing (2) 1x6 plates that go in the wheel assembly so my engine is not usable. I might be able to stop by a Lego store tomorrow. Do they even stock that piece in the pick-a-brick area? I have never bought bricks.

My PF stuff gets here next week, so won't that replace one of the wheel assemblies anyway?

Well, I struck out at the LEGO store. They won't sell individual bricks. They will sell a cup of bricks for $8 but I did not see that brick available. I was hoping to have it completed today. Guess I will order the replacements from LEGO and sit and wait.

[fred67]

Well, I struck out at the LEGO store. They won't sell individual bricks. They will sell a cup of bricks for $8 but I did not see that brick available. I was hoping to have it completed today. Guess I will order the replacements from LEGO and sit and wait.

If you call them up they will likely send it to you for free; you can probably also do it online. TLG is very good about this, especially with current sets.