[POLL] Eldorado Fortress Assessment

[TeriXeri]

3 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I like the set very much but original minifigure designs would've been so much better like the minifigs in the Galaxy Explorer and the Blacktron Cruiser.

The thing with Galaxy Explorer or Blacktron , mainly is that those are from a time before any other faces, and only used smileys, so there's no difference between any figure.

So basicly you'd end up with orange beards , black moustaches , and basic smileys (as the original set had). 

It's a very similar situation to what LEGO did with bringing back the 3 Castle factions with Falcons, Lion Knights and Forestmen, the originals mostly used smileys, but also eventually all 3 factions had a set which included a female head or a bearded face (even if in the case of Falcons, it was the other faction in the 1992 set 6057: Sea Serpent) , and forestmen and lion knights had 1 female head each in 1990.

But I imagine whatever LEGO did or does, there will probably always be some group that doesn't like a minifig selection, either for gender balance,  not being close to the original set, historically accurate, or seeing beards next to smileys as something that leaves out females, or even just being yellow skinned , but I'm not going to take sides  here, those are pure theoretical examples.

 

Edited January 19 by TeriXeri

[Horation]

13 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

But it's far more nuanced than simply adding female characters to a traditionally male niche - that alone won't significantly boost sales among adult female customers.

Yes, that's what I've been saying, I even said that this will decrease sales amongst the male demographic, I don't know why people keep on insisting that this is supposed to increase sales amongst, that was never the intention, and I've explained what I believe to be the intention about 800 times by now, the only people who claim this is being done to increase sales amongst women are those that are vehemently opposed to the inclusion of such heads (in other words, those who are less likely to purchase it as a result). 

9 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Why do you feel there was ambiguity?

because of this : "I feel like this set's biggest flaw was the marketing and the its design ethos ; [it] was clearly a giant playset, but marketed towards nostalgic adults, in other words it did not know what it was."

You are correct in the fact that there was no ambiguity on the set's target demographic (adults), at least in the marketing. But the set's design did confuse some users, and I think that's the set's main flaw. 

[Yperio_Bricks]

As a child i would have loved such a big playset like modern Eldorado Fortress. But there is nothing that speaks to me as an adult. I don't expect a full blown moc but a set with the design philosophy of a Rivendell, the Temple of the golden Idol or even the Medieval Blacksmith or the sheer beauty of some other sets for adults.

So, yeah, i am not going to buy the set

[Mister Phes]

7 hours ago, Horation said:

because of this : "I feel like this set's biggest flaw was the marketing and the its design ethos ; [it] was clearly a giant playset, but marketed towards nostalgic adults, in other words it did not know what it was."

So there was an incongruence between the marketing and content/execution of the product?

 

7 hours ago, Horation said:

 in other words it did not know what it was."

Or like I mentioned in an earlier post; it was trying to be too many things in an effort to appeal as widely as possible.

[iragm]

On 1/17/2024 at 4:25 PM, Ruthin Road said:

While the ship is absolutely fine in itself, a merchant ship still feels incongruous as part of a military fort set. I would have preferred that the ship had been saved for a future civilian port set and the price of the fort correspondingly decreased.

The ship saved the set for me.  The techniques used in the fort are extremely uninteresting. The rock work was repetitive and needed a larger variety of dark gray slopes to look more lifelike.  Compared to the Lion Knights Castle or Barracuda Bay, this set is 6/10.

But the ship is great, very fun build with lots of great details and shaping.  It's a shame the sails aren't on PAB.

My wife - not generally a huge pirates or Lego fan - built most of this set and loved it, FWIW.

[kuzyabricks]

11 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

As a child i would have loved such a big playset like modern Eldorado Fortress. But there is nothing that speaks to me as an adult. I don't expect a full blown moc but a set with the design philosophy of a Rivendell, the Temple of the golden Idol or even the Medieval Blacksmith or the sheer beauty of some other sets for adults.

So, yeah, i am not going to buy the set

You're missing out big time 🤷 if you would have loved it as a kid why not buy it and enjoy it? Being an adult doesn't mean you can't modify the set to your liking. I modify almost every set I buy so that I can enjoy it even more.

[TeriXeri]

I mostly wanted this set as my only Pirate Soldiers set ever was 2x Sabre Island (I got a bunch of very small sets and Enchanted Island later, but my only other figure was 1 green armada guy) and came back to LEGO in 2016, and by the time I started looking for other themes to collect , 2015 Pirates were mostly retired already, so Barracuda Bay and this, kind of fills the gap of knowing the 1989 big sets from catalogs, but never having them.

I did have a recent MOC of like a bigger Sabre Island on top of a rock Cave but that's disasembled already, with no good pics, but I enjoyed it as practice to make rockwork/plants and a simple yellow/white fort tower.

Edited January 20 by TeriXeri

[Yperio_Bricks]

12 hours ago, kuzyabricks said:

You're missing out big time 🤷 if you would have loved it as a kid why not buy it and enjoy it? Being an adult doesn't mean you can't modify the set to your liking. I modify almost every set I buy so that I can enjoy it even more.

I imagine it would be a great fun to mod the set! I would also build it on tiled ocean MILS plates. Maybe expand the fortress few studs in every direction and close all the gaps and holes. Switch to brown docks for sure! But i don't want to spend 215€ just to mod the set

[Horation]

12 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

I imagine it would be a great fun to mod the set! I would also build it on tiled ocean MILS plates. Maybe expand the fortress few studs in every direction and close all the gaps and holes. Switch to brown docks for sure! But i don't want to spend 215€ just to mod the set

Well, you can always resell the figs, especially if you don't like them, it is easily going to get you 30-40€ back, and if you use VIP points on it, that can save more. 

But I think in your case, the more interesting solution would be to make your own MOC version of it, improving it where you can, so as to "show 'em what you've got" so to say.

[Yperio_Bricks]

2 hours ago, Horation said:

But I think in your case, the more interesting solution would be to make your own MOC version of it, improving it where you can, so as to "show 'em what you've got" so to say.

If i'll ever build a fort for BotBS, it would be an Eldorado moc! Actually this idea is in my head for quite some time now.

[Doddsino]

I didn't like it.

I don't hate it. In fact I was loving at first, but the more I looked at it, the more I found things that just didn't sit well. Some of it is it just looks too busy, I would have preferred less pieces for what you get overall, especially the fact you need to build that enormous base. 

I'm all for larger, expensive sets with lots of pieces, but I do want SOME simplicity to it. If I want to add some flavor to it, that's my prerogative as the owner of a set. That's not so much the case with this set, but the mention of the cramped quarters reminds me of other sets that feel the need to have all this flair to bring the set to life, when it otherwise cramps things.

[TeriXeri]

3 hours ago, Doddsino said:

I'm all for larger, expensive sets with lots of pieces, but I do want SOME simplicity to it. If I want to add some flavor to it, that's my prerogative as the owner of a set. That's not so much the case with this set, but the mention of the cramped quarters reminds me of other sets that feel the need to have all this flair to bring the set to life, when it otherwise cramps things.

Yeah this set uses a lot more pieces then it would need for default display, just for the modularity of the rockwork, and then they decided to use this slope piece a lot more compared to 2-3 high slopes : 

 

 

Edited January 20 by TeriXeri

[Retrocity]

I finally was able to build my copy today. I enjoyed most of the building process.
There’s a lot of rock work building up the base, but I didn’t find it all that repetitive. It was an enjoyable build on a cold Saturday. I’ve slowly been acquiring some extra pieces for a long standing project to make a modernized Rock Island Refuge (my first pirate set). While I have already started on the base (currently on hold while getting more pieces), I did find some techniques from the Eldorado build helpful for visualizing since the base from the original set is the same one (though my build will likely be slightly bigger). I can see the criticism that a lot of the pieces for the set went to building the old baseplate and better allocation of parts could’ve allowed some additional changes/details to the fort. 

If you were to ask me my main dislikes before building, just from looking at photos, I think most stemmed from little things like potentially swapping out some white bricks for yellow or making the dock brown. I voted for the docks in the poll before building. Other critiques would be things like more detail though I like to add things to most sets.

After building, I would say my main criticism would be the size of the governor’s office. When put together like the original Eldorado, I think simply moving the cannon elsewhere and enclosing the newly open space might do the trick (along with some additional details). When displayed in the more modular form, it would need heavier modification which would make switching between the two displays more difficult.

I am happy that an updated ship from Imperial Trading Post was included. I don’t have that set (maybe one day) and I always liked the boat from it. I do wish we had gotten a merchant figure. I would definitely buy more sails if they ever go on PAB to make another small ship in similar style.

I do like the modular design with the idea that someone can build additional sections and add on to the fort.

I’ve noticed criticism when compared to sets like PoBB. For me, it’s hard to directly compare to sets like PoBB since it was an IDEAS set and based on a fan design rather than completely designed in house. While it can turn into a modern BSB, the island version is a completely original design rather than a modernization/remake of an old Pirate base. That said, both are still official sets from the same theme. I think with likely different in house designers (And PoBB having a fan designer) and different goals leads to different styles.

One thing I miss not being reused is the palm trees from PoBB.  I’m fine with the ones used, but I enjoy the look of the newer ones a lot.

One other thought, where’s the shark? Just feels wrong to not get a shark in a large pirate set.

Overall, I was happy with the build and am happy to have the set. I always wanted the original Eldorado Fortress as a kid, but it was out of production before I could really have a chance to get it. I haven't put it next to PoBB yet to see it side by side for additional thoughts. I do have the LKC to eventually build as well, so maybe I’ll have some other thoughts after building that.

 

Edited January 21 by Retrocity

[Mister Phes]

On 1/20/2024 at 11:31 AM, iragm said:

My wife - not generally a huge pirates or Lego fan - built most of this set and loved it, FWIW.

That's great news!

To learn deeper...

• Did the inclusion of the female soldiers aid in her love for this set?  Or were their inclusion incidental and it was other factors that contributed to her joy?
• Has 10320 Eldorado Fortress won her over as a LEGO Pirates fan?

[iragm]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:53 PM, Mister Phes said:

Did the inclusion of the female soldiers aid in her love for this set?

Hard to say - I suspect that this is intended to work on a more subconscious level to make women see a bit of themselves in the set. She did not complain about the historical inaccuracy of women soldiers.

I did poke her about a the complaints expressed on here (and none of them bothered her), she couldn't see the issue with the printing even after I pointed it out and showed her a 90s bluecoat to compare the white.

 

On 1/21/2024 at 8:53 PM, Mister Phes said:

Has 10320 Eldorado Fortress won her over as a LEGO Pirates fan? 

Probably not, she enjoyed it as a fun thing to do after work, but hasn't expressed interest in doing more.  She's already pretty tolerant of the thousands of pounds of bricks in the basement, so I'm not going to push my luck.

[Lalib99]

Pretty nice set overall. Great idea the modularity: in the linear configuration it reminds a port, so the ideal, imo, is to have two sets together: the fortress (Fort sabre) and the nearby port (Port royal): superb landscape. In this context, I found also appropiate to include the merchant vessel, it is an added value consistent with the interpretative possibilities of the set.

Finishings of the walls and rooms are fine, with a clear touch of classical nostalgia.. very well done. 

Being collectible, the minifigures are acceptable, in the end no one will play with them. However, going into it, it makes no sense to have 50/50 males and females in this specific set. It is out of context. I would have rather seen the governor's aunt and niece than female soldiers.

On the contrary, in the Barracuda bay the two females minifigures are a sublime homage to Anne Bonny and Mary Read, so much stuff..

[Horation]

19 hours ago, Lalib99 said:

However, going into it, it makes no sense to have 50/50 males and females in this specific set. It is out of context. I would have rather seen the governor's aunt and niece than female soldiers.

On the contrary, in the Barracuda bay the two females minifigures are a sublime homage to Anne Bonny and Mary Read, so much stuff..

This is my personal gripe with the female figs. It would have been nice to get say, the governor's daughter and a merchant/artisan female to man the boat.

[TeriXeri]

It kind of surprises me this is listed to retire at the end of this year currently (not final), and the 3-in-1 Pirate Ship at the end of 2025.

 

[Yperio_Bricks]

9 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

It kind of surprises me this is listed to retire at the end of this year currently (not final), and the 3-in-1 Pirate Ship at the end of 2025.

 

Yes, it's surprising. One would think that after the hefty price increase of the Pirate Ship from 99,99€ over 119,99€ to 129,99€ in 2022 people would not buy it. But i guess most customers don't even know about this and take the price as is. Don't know how much the price increased in other countries/regions though.

[Lalib99]

A pirate vessel will always win over everything..

[TeriXeri]

7 minutes ago, Lalib99 said:

A pirate vessel will always win over everything..

Probably, and that particular 3-in-1 set is also a tavern and skull island, so perhaps LEGO considers it 3 sets more compared to others, unlike the 3-in-1 Castle which is just 3 structures ,which also is still around, but if Pirate Ship retires at the end of 2025 , it'll mean it has been around 2 years longer then the Castle.

Still the mystery around barracuda bay retiring quite fast,  is weird, as it's even still mentioned in the Eldorado instructions when you finish the dock.

Viking ship came later and retired sooner but viking always has been more niche, and IDEAS viking village will stay for a while.

Edited January 25 by TeriXeri

[Lalib99]

The Barracuda bay retirement is really a mystery.. such a kind of masterpiece..

[Mister Phes]

12 hours ago, Lalib99 said:

A pirate vessel will always win over everything..

That seems to be the case with the 3 in 1 Creator Pirate Ship. It's been in production for almost 4 years and as @Yperio_Bricks mentioned, in some regions the price has increased.

So that may indicate sales have been strong.

Meanwhile, Pirates of Barracuda Bay had a seemingly short production run, and 10320 Eldorado Fortress's production run has apparently been shorted by 24 months.

So this indicates sales for both sets didn't meet expectations.

[Yperio_Bricks]

5 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

That seems to be the case with the 3 in 1 Creator Pirate Ship. It's been in production for almost 4 years and as @Yperio_Bricks mentioned, in some regions the price has increased.

So that may indicate sales have been strong.

Meanwhile, Pirates of Barracuda Bay had a seemingly short production run, and 10320 Eldorado Fortress's production run has apparently been shorted by 24 months.

So this indicates sales for both sets didn't meet expectations.

And as we can see 40% of the Lego aficionados and visitors of this very pirate forum have not yet bought the EF set for different reasons. So it's not a no-brainer, even in our peer group.

But of course, it's just one poll and hard to draw conclusions. To bad we don't have the sales numbers from Lego

(Memo to myself: For the next poll about a specific set, add a 1-10 rating poll question.)

 

[Lalib99]

The 3-in-one has a proper vessel, a skeleton island and a to-date unique pirate tavern!
In addition to triple fun by building.
Frankly unbeatable!