Lego Icons 10332 Medieval Town Square Discussion Thread

[LegoAUT]

45 minutes ago, kill will said:

Fingers crossed that most of the prototype design makes it into the final product and that the parts make their way onto PAB eventually 

Figers crossed we get a medieval village at all. I am positive but it‘s anything but confirmed at this stage. 

[Triceron]

Even if it's not confirmed, it's pretty solid considering it's being presented in a survey regarding pricing of the set with a mock up build, not in asking whether the concept should be made at all.

[Sir Dano]

Damn you guys are pretty optimistic, I'm fully expecting them to go for the $310 price tag.

[Roebuck]

11 hours ago, Triceron said:

Even if it's not confirmed, it's pretty solid considering it's being presented in a survey regarding pricing of the set with a mock up build, not in asking whether the concept should be made at all.

Well indirectly they asked if the participants where interested in the sets and how much they would pay for it if they where so that is a way to find out if it should be made. There where sets there that was unlikely like the sorting hat as well however this set was one of the more finished ones. in addition it had the inclusion of a 3D printed goat. Why would they go to the trouble of printing the goat if there was not a new mould on the way?! If they needed a goat for illustrating only I am sure they could find one easy at the Lego HQ they could borrow. 
 

9 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

Damn you guys are pretty optimistic, I'm fully expecting them to go for the $310 price tag.

When it comes to this set, it is most important that we get it on shelf's, hopefully the price is not to bad and it is possible to get it on sale in normal shops later
 

11 hours ago, LegoAUT said:

Figers crossed we get a medieval village at all. I am positive but it‘s anything but confirmed at this stage. 

I am crossing every body-part and biting nails until it is confirmed August this year is the first possibility I think, Lego is 91 year after all

[Triceron]

12 hours ago, Roebuck said:

Well indirectly they asked if the participants where interested in the sets and how much they would pay for it if they where so that is a way to find out if it should be made. There where sets there that was unlikely like the sorting hat as well however this set was one of the more finished ones. in addition it had the inclusion of a 3D printed goat. Why would they go to the trouble of printing the goat if there was not a new mould on the way?! If they needed a goat for illustrating only I am sure they could find one easy at the Lego HQ they could borrow. 

 

Hard to make that judgement right now, too many unknown factors.  The picture is so blurry, would we even be able to tell if it's an actual build or just a well made promotional render?  A 3d model of a goat would work for that screenshot just fine in that case.

 

Maybe JeanGreyForever could clarify if these were renders or actual molded figures

22 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

Damn you guys are pretty optimistic, I'm fully expecting them to go for the $310 price tag.

 

I was hoping for somethwere around $240 like people have said, but I think the animals do throw a bit of a curveball in there.  That and Lego being Lego and getting away with pricing in-demand sets and themes higher than normal.

[Rjbricks]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:42 PM, Sir Dano said:

Damn you guys are pretty optimistic, I'm fully expecting them to go for the $310 price tag.

It's fine, by the time it gets built, $310 will only be $240 in today's money anyway  

[Roebuck]

11 hours ago, Triceron said:

Hard to make that judgement right now, too many unknown factors.  The picture is so blurry, would we even be able to tell if it's an actual build or just a well made promotional render?  A 3d model of a goat would work for that screenshot just fine in that case.

It do not think it is a promotional render  Is it not as much work to build it digitally as in real life if you can not scan an original set first? So i assume it depends on if the designer likes to build with real bricks or do it digitally

My guess is that they started developing this at the same time as the 90th year castle and then split them up since it was to big for one set..

[RichardGoring]

In one of the designer interviews for the castle I think they said that one concept also included a village, but it was removed as the set was too large.

[Triceron]

10 hours ago, Roebuck said:

It do not think it is a promotional render  Is it not as much work to build it digitally as in real life if you can not scan an original set first? So i assume it depends on if the designer likes to build with real bricks or do it digitally

My guess is that they started developing this at the same time as the 90th year castle and then split them up since it was to big for one set..

Well it would be cheaper to do digitial model obviously, because making molds costs ~$200,000.  Molds are THE most expensive parts in Lego production.  The Goat mold would be brand new and first introduced for this set.

 

That's why it'd be quite a difference between whether they actually made this goat, which means they already have a mold in production and this set is very likely to be real; or if it's just a digital mockup where it's still in the concept phase.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Triceron

[RichardGoring]

21 minutes ago, Triceron said:

Well it would be cheaper to do digitial model obviously, because making molds costs ~$200,000.  Molds are THE most expensive parts in Lego production.  The Goat mold would be brand new and first introduced for this set.

That's why it'd be quite a difference between whether they actually made this goat, which means they already have a mold in production and this set is very likely to be real; or if it's just a digital mockup where it's still in the concept phase.

But they 3D print or sculpt prototypes without the expense of the mould. Although that it still probably more expensive than a digital render, it's not terribly expensive in comparison.

[Triceron]

2 minutes ago, RichardGoring said:

But they 3D print or sculpt prototypes without the expense of the mould. Although that it still probably more expensive than a digital render, it's not terribly expensive in comparison.

Ah, that is very true.  I hadn't considered a prototype being used here.  Makes sense!

[RichardGoring]

It could still be a render, but prototypes make physical models a feasible option too. In this case as the goat is a single grey piece, it might actually suggest a physical model with a 3D printed prototype, rather than a render, which would probably have used a coloured and printed goat.

[Aanchir]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:53 PM, kill will said:

I hope you're right and the higher costs are isolated to City sets specifically in the US! There are a number of them I've been tempted to get but just can't justify the price and not being able to use a significant number of the other parts. I have zero interest in anything newer than the 1920's so a medieval village with a good selection of animals is doubly appealing to me. Fingers crossed that most of the prototype design makes it into the final product and that the parts make their way onto PAB eventually 

60346 Barn and Farm Animals and 60301 Wildlife Rescue Off-Roader are also both 4+ sets with a lot of disproportionately large "starter bricks". That's probably at least as big a factor in their unusually high price-per-piece as their number of animal molds. Compare with 60280 Fire Ladder Truck, a 4+ City set with NO animal molds but a higher price per piece in USD than either of those other two sets!

Large 18+ sets like the Lion Knights' Castle and medieval village are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They have lots and lots of small pieces and basic bricks that help to drive down their price per piece, and should certainly be enough to offset the cost of the animals.

Also, keep in mind that the leaked pic of the village shows FEWER large, pre-assembled animals like cows and horses than were included in the Lion Knights' Castle. Smaller single-piece animals (even printed ones) like cats, sheep, squirrels, and owls usually still cost more per piece than basic bricks, but don't tend to drive up a set's price by nearly as much as large, pre-assembled animals. I mean, just look how many different animal molds and prints regularly show up in Friends sets!

[LegoAUT]

2 hours ago, Triceron said:

Well it would be cheaper to do digitial model obviously, because making molds costs ~$200,000.  Molds are THE most expensive parts in Lego production.  The Goat mold would be brand new and first introduced for this set.

 

That's why it'd be quite a difference between whether they actually made this goat, which means they already have a mold in production and this set is very likely to be real; or if it's just a digital mockup where it's still in the concept phase.

How can a mould be so expensive?? 🤯

[Triceron]

I'd actually been talking to my wife about Classic Castle sets, and how it surprised me so much looking back at how low the piece counts were for such large sets.  They made the most of those large wall pieces, and part of me wishes they brought those back.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the new techniques they're using, and the textured brick piece is very useful for adding variety, but there's a certain charm to being able to quickly build a castle with just the walls and some hinge bricks.  Not sure how that would affect pricing if they were to bring those larger pieces back.

 

Do they still use the BURP pieces in modern sets?

 

9 minutes ago, LegoAUT said:

How can a mould be so expensive?? 🤯

I found this article which kinda explains it

https://www.murrayplastics.com/blog/see-how-plastic-injection-molding-works-with-legos

 

Why the sky-high price tag? Because of their incredibly precise form, each LEGO plastic injection mold is created with the highest standards and needs to be routinely tested and cleaned by a certified LEGO team to ensure flawless block production. 

 

It was pretty recent for me as well to realize molding cost so much.  I followed a former Mattel brand manager youtuber who talks about his work on the He-man line, and why the old figures reused so many parts.  They were trying to follow in a similar design of reusing as much as they can because molding tools are very pricy.

 

And the price is likely directly associated to the quality of the bricks.  Like you can get knock-off 'Lego' bricks made in China, but they could be of various quality, and that is likely due to the plastics and molds they use being cheaper and lower quality.  Like, you can probably get a mold for just a few thousand dollars, but it wouldn't be producing Lego quality bricks.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Triceron

[LegoAUT]

Thanks for the explanation amd the link, @Triceron! Makes sense, however, it seems also Lego has gotten worse quality wise since the „sprue-points“ are often visible nowadays which I don‘t think was the case back then, however, this is rather a problem of the plastic/ colour and not of the mould.

[Roebuck]

18 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

In one of the designer interviews for the castle I think they said that one concept also included a village, but it was removed as the set was too large.

Yes, I believe that is right, but I could not find the link strait away So it is possible that they split them and started developing 2 separate models

12 hours ago, Aanchir said:

60346 Barn and Farm Animals and 60301 Wildlife Rescue Off-Roader are also both 4+ sets with a lot of disproportionately large "starter bricks". That's probably at least as big a factor in their unusually high price-per-piece as their number of animal molds. Compare with 60280 Fire Ladder Truck, a 4+ City set with NO animal molds but a higher price per piece in USD than either of those other two sets!

Large 18+ sets like the Lion Knights' Castle and medieval village are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They have lots and lots of small pieces and basic bricks that help to drive down their price per piece, and should certainly be enough to offset the cost of the animals.

Also, keep in mind that the leaked pic of the village shows FEWER large, pre-assembled animals like cows and horses than were included in the Lion Knights' Castle. Smaller single-piece animals (even printed ones) like cats, sheep, squirrels, and owls usually still cost more per piece than basic bricks, but don't tend to drive up a set's price by nearly as much as large, pre-assembled animals. I mean, just look how many different animal molds and prints regularly show up in Friends sets!

All valid points, hope you are right
 

12 hours ago, Triceron said:

I'd actually been talking to my wife about Classic Castle sets, and how it surprised me so much looking back at how low the piece counts were for such large sets.  They made the most of those large wall pieces, and part of me wishes they brought those back.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the new techniques they're using, and the textured brick piece is very useful for adding variety, but there's a certain charm to being able to quickly build a castle with just the walls and some hinge bricks.  Not sure how that would affect pricing if they were to bring those larger pieces back.

I prefer to build the walls with smaller parts like in the 90 year castle myself, but I assume they would be more expensive if they did. Lego was very expensive in the late 80ties early 90ties, e.g.6086: Black Knight's Castle 588 parts for 85$ and the average salary etc was a lot lower then today

[Aanchir]

21 hours ago, Triceron said:

I'd actually been talking to my wife about Classic Castle sets, and how it surprised me so much looking back at how low the piece counts were for such large sets.  They made the most of those large wall pieces, and part of me wishes they brought those back.

Honestly, I feel like there's a lot of amazing castle-building potential even with a lot of the big panel pieces that ARE still around today! I'm a big fan of the 1x4x5 panel with castle window, and the 2x2x5 quarter cylinder panel. I have a much easier time working with their simpler shapes and even-numbered widths than I did with the odd-numbered widths of old-school castle wall panels — not saying those were bad or that they lacked creative potential, just that they've always been a little trickier to wrap my brain around, especially when I was still just a kid. I've had a lot of fun MOCing with them on Stud.io — though I have regrettably never gotten any of my castle concepts to a state of completion I'm happy enough with to go forth and order the pieces I'd need to build them physically.

I also feel like many old-school LEGO castles weren't as big as they seem to us in hindsight — most of the ones from the 80s and early 90s could fit neatly on a 32x32 baseplate (even 6080 King's Castle, if you remove the unused grassy area in the front). 6090 Royal Knights' Castle went further than any of its predecessors with its 48x32 baseplate, but became decidedly less substantial in the process, with just short parapet walls along the back and left side, and a column-based throne room tower with scarcely a single solid wall! Honestly, I think the shift away from solid baseplates and towards modular builds on standard plates (similar to those used for small and mid-size Castle sets back in the 1980s) was a real boon in terms of allowing fully-enclosed castles to extend their outer walls further — and even break away from a rectangular grid layout, in some cases — while maintaining a $100 price point.

22 hours ago, Triceron said:

Do they still use the BURP pieces in modern sets?

Yep! Both the 4x10x6 and 3x8x7 ones from the 90s were still appearing in sets as recently as last year, and a new 8x8x6 "corner" BURP was even introduced in 2016 to go with them! The smaller 2x4x6 cliff/ice wall introduced in the mid-2000s also remains in use in both solid and transparent colors, and just this year a shorter 2x4x4 version was introduced for the Super Mario sets!

In general, the current LEGO parts palette is not lacking for big panel/frame pieces and other structural elements — especially since nowadays there are a lot of "4+" sets that make heavy use of them. These sets cater to a similar "preschool" age range to Fabuland sets from the 80s or Jack Stone/4 Juniors sets from the early 2000s, but with a less theme-specific design language that allows them to share more of their figure components and other parts with standard "play themes".

Mind you, I do think that the more limited use of BURPs and other large structural elements in premium, AFOL-targeted sets like the Lion Knights' Castle is an appropriate call. Not only does that improve their appeal with builders who would feel underwhelmed by the simpler sorts of builds typical of more kid-targeted sets, it also gives LEGO a chance to get extra creative with the details of the model's windows, parapets, and landscaping. But rest assured, I don't see any signs that LEGO intends to do away with larger wall panels or BURPs any time soon.

[rebelpilot]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:46 AM, Aanchir said:

Also, keep in mind that the leaked pic of the village shows FEWER large, pre-assembled animals like cows and horses than were included in the Lion Knights' Castle. Smaller single-piece animals (even printed ones) like cats, sheep, squirrels, and owls usually still cost more per piece than basic bricks, but don't tend to drive up a set's price by nearly as much as large, pre-assembled animals.....

I agree with your assessment and a printed owl or chicken should be less expensive to produce than a cow or horse but I was reminded of this interview:

Quote

On on the topic of animals, why weren’t there any other animals such as chickens? Were any farm-type animals that didn’t make the cut?

Wes: This kind of along the horse scenario – we have to work within these limitations and have to choose between things like expensive animals. Whether it’s a couple chickens or even one chicken or one horse.

Sometimes the smaller stuff takes more than you would think to produce.

So in this case, we felt like the horse was really the the strongest addition to the set because it draws the carriage, plus we could make it in a new colour and it’s a larger animal overall.

So, yeah, I would have loved to have some chickens, but I’d have to make some cuts somewhere else.

 

Apparently the smaller animals have have a bigger effect on a sets budget than you would assume.

Edited February 27, 2023 by rebelpilot

[Roebuck]

1 hour ago, rebelpilot said:

Apparently the smaller animals have have a bigger effect on a sets budget than you would assume.

That is right, but they can include a lot of animals if they prioritize it and in a set like that I assume it is very high on the list with animals
I felt that that was the only major downside to the 90 year castle that the animals was not prioritized in it, but if we get a set full of them in the medieval village that do not matter at all when we combine them

[TeriXeri]

2 hours ago, Roebuck said:

I felt that that was the only major downside to the 90 year castle that the animals was not prioritized in it, but if we get a set full of them in the medieval village that do not matter at all when we combine them

I still feel minifig Horses have been neglected quite long , so 2 horses over animals was a needed thing in the big castle set.

In a village set, horses are less mandatory ,and something like Cows and other farm animals are more at the right place.

(I know this is probably a personal view, due to rediscovering LEGO back in 2016 again and looking at other non-licensed themes after 2018, it wasn't until fairly recent where horses were in themes like IDEAS, or City again).

I do know the earlier 2010s did have many horses however as themes like Castle or Lord of the Rings or Lone Ranger were around at the time of the horse re-design, but my viewpoint is mainly from 2018 onward, there were a few years with few minifig horses (beside 1 harry potter set in 2019, and then the more recent sets which had the Tan and Dark Orange horses).

Currently a Pick a Brick horse + Saddle is valued over €8 (€5.24 + €2,82) , directly from LEGO.

And we're in 2023, which is already 10 years since the last Castle/Lord of the Rings/Lone Ranger price points, , so a small set with 1 horse is probably €20 minimum nowadays.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by TeriXeri

[Roebuck]

2 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I still feel minifig Horses have been neglected quite long , so 2 horses over animals was a needed thing in the big castle set.

In a village set, horses are less mandatory ,and something like Cows and other farm animals are more at the right place.

(I know this is probably a personal view, due to rediscovering LEGO back in 2016 again and looking at other non-licensed themes after 2018, it wasn't until fairly recent where horses were in themes like IDEAS, or City again).

I do know the earlier 2010s did have many horses however as themes like Castle or Lord of the Rings or Lone Ranger were around at the time of the horse re-design, but my viewpoint is mainly from 2018 onward, there were a few years with few minifig horses (beside 1 harry potter set in 2019, and then the more recent sets which had the Tan and Dark Orange horses)

 

Horses are animals too I agree that horses was the most important animal to include in the 90 castle set, however only two in such a big set was at least half of what we could expect compared to older sets 

You are right about the horse being gone for many years until HP brought it back. Now they are back and in circulation it is easier to include them in more sets as well without using up the hole budget

[TeriXeri]

14 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

You are right about the horse being gone for many years until HP brought it back. Now they are back and in circulation it is easier to include them in more sets as well without using up the hole budget

Brown , Tan and Dark Orange are certainly in production and all currently available on PAB in Europe, just need White and Black to return , or perhaps some new variants of color or prints.

And yeah, I know PAB price doesn't reflect set prices , especially if it's something like 2 horses of same color, would probably be cheaper to produce then 2 different horses in a set, for something like a carriage etc. Latest example would be the HP set with 2 white horses, or the Sleigh with 4 Reindeer  (which are valued at €7,64 ) 

Tan and Dark Orange horse being in multiple sets also helps, as they are listed under Bestseller , which before, they were not. 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by TeriXeri

[Triceron]

White and Black really need to return.

 

I was incredibly unsatisfied by the Black Knight's cream colored horse in LKC.  I swapped it out with a classic black horse and it was way better.

[BTappel]

This is wishful thinking but watching TLG bring back many of the classic factions recently like crusaders, falcons, and forest men makes me want them to bring back the rest!  This set would be perfect to reintroduce another faction or two, say a couple new black nights to guard the village and perhaps a wolf pack or two to cause the knights problems?!