Marvel Superheroes 2023 - Rumors & Discussion

[Shiva]

The Marvels, of the 33 Marvel movies, RottenTomatoes score. Tomatometer 31st. But on Audience score, 20th.

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/all-marvel-cinematic-universe-movies-ranked/

Nr 1 of that list, is ranked 24th by audience score.

Audience review bombing, that might explain Nr1 being 24th for audience, same with "Captain Marvel".

[Battlinpanther]

You can’t really pull “she’s not reflective of her government just because she works for them” when that government is actively being criticized for crimes against humanity right now. I have no idea how they’d planned on using her in the film, but if she was going to be depicted as an agent of the Israeli government before the reshoots, she almost certainly isn’t now.

I could see Lego doing what they did with their Flash set and just remove the problematic character and swap her out for someone else.

Edited January 1 by Battlinpanther

[Buckethead]

21 minutes ago, Battlinpanther said:

You can’t really pull “she’s not reflective of her government just because she works for them” when that government is actively being criticized for crimes against humanity right now. I have no idea how they’d planned on using her in the film, but if she was going to be depicted as an agent of the Israeli government before the reshoots, she almost certainly isn’t now.

I could see Lego doing what they did with their Flash set and just remove the problematic character and swap her out for someone else.

That's not what I'm arguing. I explicitly said she'll contrast Sam Wilson by being a state superhero instead of a superhero for all people. I explicitly said she'll probably be an antagonist in the film. Tell me, if she is an antagonist, and the film uses her to criticize Israel, is it still inappropriate to have her in the film?

[Battlinpanther]

I don’t think they’d be so bold as to do something like that, but I guess we’ll see.

Anyway, are we thinking the jet is another Quinjet?

[Mandalorianknight]

It is absolutely awful to me to see that the almost unanimous reaction to this seems to be "They should cut Sabra/use her to criticize Isreal". The SOVIET UNION got a superhero- one who, mind you, seemed to agree with Soviet ideology not only in the comics but in the film. A country that killed more than 1.6 million not in warfare or counterterrorism, but in concentration camps. But an isreali counterterrorist hero? No, no that's not allowed.

 

1 hour ago, Battlinpanther said:

Anyway, are we thinking the jet is another Quinjet?

Sabra is the only character in the jet likely to be piloting it, if both Captain Falcon and Falcon come with wings and Red Hulk is a bigfig, so my guess is it'll be something like the black panther jet or 2017 captain america jet- a vaugly military jet, but not based on a specific model, and with non-military shooters and a nonmilitary color scheme (I'd guess lots of blue). I wouldn't be surprised if the jet wasn't meant to reflect anything from the film- plenty of MCU tie-in sets have done the same.

[THELEGOBATMAN]

2 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

It is absolutely awful to me to see that the almost unanimous reaction to this seems to be "They should cut Sabra/use her to criticize Isreal". The SOVIET UNION got a superhero- one who, mind you, seemed to agree with Soviet ideology not only in the comics but in the film. A country that killed more than 1.6 million not in warfare or counterterrorism, but in concentration camps. But an isreali counterterrorist hero? No, no that's not allowed.

Soviet Union has been gone for over thirty years. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is happening right now.

That can't be particularly hard to comprehend, can it? One is history, the other is fully relevant. Obviously big corporations like Disney will do anything to not be associated with it.

[Scarilian]

5 hours ago, Buckethead said:

Tell me, if she is an antagonist, and the film uses her to criticize Israel, is it still inappropriate to have her in the film? 

Yes, it's taking an extremely divisive political/social situation and giving it to the hands of writers who have shown they are incompetent at handling politics/social issue (TF&TWS) for use in a film that should really be focused on entertainment at a time when Disney have acknowledge they should be stepping away from messaging regarding political/social issues. Given there's an an ongoing Israel and Palestine conflict it'd be against their interest to take a political/social stance so the most logical option would be to heavily diminish or if possible cut Sabra's role in the film. Making her a hero or villain would only create division.

I think at its core, bringing it back to Lego, Lego themselves would not know how the character would be handled as the set would be based on concept art provided to them in 2021/2022 and definitely have no clue how the character would be handled in the reshot version that we'll see in 2025. As such I doubt they were aware of the potential controversy surrounding the character's history, but given the current situation in the world and how Lego have cancelled sets or dropped figures for less. I think it'd be justifiable on Lego's part to remove Sabra from the set over concerns it would risk representing a stance in a modern military conflict.

4 hours ago, Battlinpanther said:

Anyway, are we thinking the jet is another Quinjet?

I imagine it'll be like this, just swapping the bike for wings and the jeep for a big fig:

6 hours ago, Shiva said:

Audience review bombing

Nope, it's just a bad film and deserving of a poor rating.

Edited January 1 by Scarilian

[THELEGOBATMAN]

I don't think some people understand the issue here.

It's not whether they stand with Israel or Palestine — it's about whether they choose a stand at all. Being associated with an ongoing conflict is not something corporations seek.

Look how it ended for Spyglass with Scream VII — they fired a single actress after she made a post on Instagram accusing one side of the conflict of genocide, and the whole movie (and possibly franchise) has collapsed for years, if not much more than that.

Have you seen the comments about Sabra being in the movie even before the ongoing conflict has started? Just look here, I genuinely can't find a single positive comment:

So even if Disney makes a ridiculous decision of leaving her in the movie (which would backfire at them heavily), LEGO won't include her in the set.

Edited January 1 by THELEGOBATMAN

[BrickBob Studpants]

If Marvel are smart about it, they‘ll just remove Sabra from the movie (and thus the set) altogether. No matter how they portray the character, it will rub people the wrong way, especially with the current conflict still ongoing. Entertainment commenting on real-life events, be they current or historical, is okay in my book, but it‘s usually handled in a pretty subtle way, with allegories and stand-ins (see the fictional countries in the Marvel universe). 

Having Sabra in the movie, despite being obviously fictional, is too real in a sense. People go to superhero movies for escapism, not to be reminded of real-life tragedies that are ongoing while they sit in a movie theatre, munching on popcorn

[Buckethead]

6 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

It is absolutely awful to me to see that the almost unanimous reaction to this seems to be "They should cut Sabra/use her to criticize Isreal".

Spoiler

I don't think they should remove Sabra, and the only reason I'm asking if people would be okay if she were a villain is because I'm not sure if her being controversial is the real reason people are upset. If she has any connection to the comics, she's too controversial to use. If she's changed completely, people are STILL arguing she should be removed. Sometimes it feels like people just really hate Sabra. I love when Marvel/Lego makes new characters, and I'd be disappointed if Lego swapped her out with someone we've already gotten before.

 

4 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Soviet Union has been gone for over thirty years. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is happening right now.

Spoiler

Soviet Union? Sure, but Russia is actively trying to invade Ukraine arguing the nation and its people are "historically Russian" and therefore deserve to be invaded. 

 

3 hours ago, Scarilian said:

I think at its core, bringing it back to Lego, Lego themselves would not know how the character would be handled as the set would be based on concept art provided to them in 2021/2022 and definitely have no clue how the character would be handled in the reshot version that we'll see in 2025. As such I doubt they were aware of the potential controversy surrounding the character's history, but given the current situation in the world and how Lego have cancelled sets or dropped figures for less. I think it'd be justifiable on Lego's part to remove Sabra from the set over concerns it would risk representing a stance in a modern military conflict.

What sets or figures have been removed in the past?

1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

I don't think some people understand the issue here.

It's not whether they stand with Israel or Palestine — it's about whether they choose a stand at all. Being associated with an ongoing conflict is not something corporations seek.

Look how it ended for Spyglass with Scream VII — they fired a single actress after she made a post on Instagram accusing one side of the conflict of genocide, and the whole movie (and possibly franchise) has collapsed for years, if not much more than that.

Have you seen the comments about Sabra being in the movie even before the ongoing conflict has started? Just look here, I genuinely can't find a single positive comment:

So even if Disney makes a ridiculous decision of leaving her in the movie (which would backfire at them heavily), LEGO won't include her in the set.

Spoiler

To be fair, we don't really know if Marvel/Lego is choosing a side. The fact they're calling her Ruth instead of Sabra probably means they're aware of the controversy and are taking active steps to change the character for a maximal audience. You said yourself; people were concerned even before the war and yet she's still rumored to be in the set.  If they change her to avoid controversy, is it still bad to have her in the set?

 

[Legocentrico]

I hate Disney, its priorities and its hypocrisy. I hate the need to please everyone and the fear of offending someone. This has a large part of the responsibility for the terrible quality of the films that are coming out. With this management we would probably never have had the great films with the great villains that made the fortune of the brand! Marvel is a fake world, it's a "science fiction" franchise, we shouldn't have these problems. And I also hate this "web" that is scandalized by everything, I'm Italian and our representation in Hollywood almost always sucks, but who cares. Sorry for the rant, but I'm tired of seeing movies and legos ruined because of this megablocks

40 minuti fa, Buckethead ha detto:

Quali insiemi o figure sono stati rimossi in passato?

Indiana Jones' Temple of Doom was cancelled, a technics plane was cancelled, Jabba's palace faced accusations from the Muslim community and we never saw him in that form again, slave Leia, maybe Kang

Edited January 1 by Legocentrico

[Battlinpanther]

3 hours ago, Buckethead said:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

What sets or figures have been removed in the past?

 

The Flash movie is the most recent example. They had a kit planned featuring Flash alongside the Michael Keaton Batman and classic Batmobile, but after Ezra Miller's criminal charges they scrapped it and released the Batman and Batmobile separately under generic Batman branding to avoid any association.

[Shiva]

9 hours ago, Scarilian said:

Nope, it's just a bad film and deserving of a poor rating.

So Black Panther was a bad movie? Ok.

76282, Rocket, not that bad, actually.

[Mandalorianknight]

11 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Soviet Union has been gone for over thirty years. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is happening right now.

That can't be particularly hard to comprehend, can it? One is history, the other is fully relevant. Obviously big corporations like Disney will do anything to not be associated with it.

This is a pretty big simplification. Ignoring the fact that there are a TON of people alive today who had to live under the soviet union, lost people to it, etc, while the name "soviet union" is gone, Russia continues to be a controversial country involved in wars. (And while the fullscale invasion of ukraine didn't happen until after BW released if I remember correctly, it's not like Russia hasn't been embroiled in controversies and conflicts over the entirety of that film's production. Also, the soviet union was, in terms of pure numbers killed, one of the single worst regimes in history. I don't think it really compares.

Not to mention another pretty controversial country- one that is more comparable to the soviet union in that it also has interment camps for certain groups- is still actively around, and disney went a step above putting a hero working with the CCP by dealing with their government in REAL LIFE. Secret invasion dealt directly with tensions between russia and america- it's not like those haven't been high for the past decade. Not to mention this movie is meant to feature captain america fighting the sitting president of the united states, so it's not exactly like they're just trying to avoid controversy.

Another addition here- don't pretend the Sabra hate started with the war. It started the second she was cast, well before the fullscale war broke out. There was conflict, but again, tons of countries have that sort of thing happening. 

9 hours ago, Scarilian said:

I imagine it'll be like this, just swapping the bike for wings and the jeep for a big fig:

Yup, and $25 more expensive.

6 hours ago, Buckethead said:

  Hide contents

I don't think they should remove Sabra, and the only reason I'm asking if people would be okay if she were a villain is because I'm not sure if her being controversial is the real reason people are upset. If she has any connection to the comics, she's too controversial to use. If she's changed completely, people are STILL arguing she should be removed. Sometimes it feels like people just really hate Sabra. I love when Marvel/Lego makes new characters, and I'd be disappointed if Lego swapped her out with someone we've already gotten before.

 

I'm glad to see this, and agree in general. I was looking forewords to Sabra, and while I didn't expect her to be adapted 1-1 as a hero working for the isreali government, I was if anything MORE excited for what I assumed we'd get- Sabra being introduced as one of Sam's friends or allies when he puts together a team to fight red hulk. I've had absolutely zero confidence in marvel handling "Captain America fights the sitting president of the united states" well, but I counted Sabra's introduction as a silver lining.

32 minutes ago, Shiva said:

So Black Panther was a bad movie? Ok.

Pretty sure he's talking about the marvels. But in general, critics and fans disagree on what makes a good movie, especially with franchises like Marvel. Large differences between critic and audience scores aren't uncommon with these films. 

For instance, most marvel fans I know thought Black Panther was great, but I don't know a single one in real life who'd put it at #1. Likewise, the most common #1s I hear are infinity war and winter soldier, and there are a number of other movies with critic scores above both.

 

Bad news on the X-jet- I was at a couple targets today looking for other sets, and they all had the jet listed for $85, as did the lego store. The $60 thing must have been a mistake.

Edited January 1 by Mandalorianknight

[Callistereo]

So isn't this thread supposed to close now that it is 2024?

[Scarilian]

37 minutes ago, Callistereo said:

So isn't this thread supposed to close now that it is 2024?

Probably, but I imagine that those intending to start the 2024 thread are probably relaxing over New Years.

 

[thebricksbear]

It's already been mentioned that Sabra would be agnostic of the anti-palestine revelation storyline from the comics, so the only unanswered question is, 'what's the point of sabra if not to include that moment?' Obviously to be an Israeli and Jewish superhero that those viewers can relate to. Before anyone screams Ben Grimm, there are plenty of Jewish superheroes that don't represent the readers the way characters like Sabra (and Ms Marvel for example) do. In fact, Quicksilver's and Wanda's Jewishness were removed from their characters. 

Timing is unfortunate with the crisis in the middle east and everyone being sensitive to the mere mention of the word Israel, but there's absolutely no reason this character can't exist without a correlation to the war. I sincerely hope they keep this character and do something productive with her, despite my feelings about real world events. I also hope that this set is far enough along and close enough to release that it isn't impacted by the extremely negative conversations happening all over lego social media.

 

On another note, I was looking around at sets that had comparable figs and pieces and someone already posted the Black Panther set, but the Homecoming set is also similar and was amazing.Sadly, it was $40 on release, LOL

[Battlinpanther]

As others have said, the Soviet Union no longer exists, so any comparison there is moot. And while China is absolutely guilty of human rights abuse as well, they’re not currently at the center of a global crisis millions of people are seeing footage from daily. It’s simply not comparable. The amount of public outrage and anger over the crisis in the Middle East is a very relevant current factor and not something that happened before half of the audience was born.

Introducing a superhero working for the Israeli government and military right now would be walking directly into a minefield that could easily have been avoided, so I am guessing if she remains in the film at all, they’ll simply have her be a SHIELD or SWORD agent who happens to be of Israeli descent or something along those lines. I wouldn’t be surprised if the code name Sabra also doesn’t get used (though the movies are already back and forth on whether or not code names get used). They’ll probably just call her Ruth.

 

[JeanGreyForever]

58 minutes ago, thebricksbear said:

 In fact, Quicksilver's and Wanda's Jewishness were removed from their characters. 

Yeah, this is completely incorrect. Wanda and Pietro were never created as Jewish, unlike Ben Grimm and Kitty Pryde. They were introduced as hailing from a generic Eastern European country with Romani heritage. In the 70s, Marvel retconned their past so they were really the children of two Golden Age American superheroes. This did not sit well with artist/writer John Byrne, who felt it was strange that two all-American characters would name their children Wanda and Pietro over say Winnie and Peter. So their parentage was retconned again in the late 70s to make it so that Magneto and Magda were their parents. And this was a fact that was only supposed to be known to readers but never brought up explicitly in the comics. Magneto was not Jewish at all when this happened. It was another writer, Chris Claremont, who years later, retconned Magneto as being a Holocaust survivor to turn him into an anti-hero. Claremont has pretty much never acknowledged Wanda and Pietro as Magneto's kids during his 17 years on the X-Men. In turn, Byrne was never supportive of the idea that Magneto was Jewish. In the years that Magneto became outed as Wanda and Pietro's father, there was never any attempt to have them recognize their Jewish heritage that now only existed because of a retcon and a retcon of a retcon. In fact, storylines focused on Wanda's Romani heritage which she already had before Magneto became her father and also from the fact that her new mother, Magda, was Romani. In the 90s, Magneto's heritage was briefly retconned again so that like Magda, he was now Romani. I think this was reverted back to him being Jewish in the 2000s or around that time. In all this time, Wanda's only heritage that was explored was her being Romani and a mutant married to an android with human kids while Pietro's heritage was him being a mutant married to an Inhuman with a human daughter. Finally, the twins' parentage was retconned (yet again) so Magneto was no longer their father. They got new parents now who were also Romani and Wanda's Romani heritage has continued to be explored in current storylines. So the only accusation you can make here is that Wanda and Pietro had their Romani heritage stripped from them in the MCU and there was backlash about that in online circles.

The same is true for Doctor Doom who is also of Romani heritage and was never presented as such in any of his film depictions.

[Battlinpanther]

On the subject of the kit itself, are we expecting a reused Hulk body mold for Red Hulk? I haven’t kept up with any of the recent Lego Hulk releases.

Edited January 1 by Battlinpanther

[icm]

I just got the X-Jet without box, minifigs, or instructions from Bricks and Minifigs for $20. Pretty sweet!

[NXS7]

1 hour ago, Battlinpanther said:

On the subject of the kit itself, are we expecting a reused Hulk body mold for Red Hulk? I haven’t kept up with any of the recent Lego Hulk releases.

I would hope it's the new mold with a moveable head, for LEGO to go back to the old days of big characters needing to turn their whole body like Michael Keaton's Batman would be a massive backstep

I hope Rulk's design in the film is close to the old figure, and not like his recent look in the comics where he retains Ross' grey hair and moustache

 

Don't want to get involved in the political Sabra debate, I wouldn't mind her being replaced with a different character (obviously meaning GIVE US LEADER!), but that's really just due to the obscurer nature of the character. If she stays in the film, she isn't going to be anything like her comic counterpart, and to think she would be is ridiculous. Since when has the MCU adapted anything from the comics 1:1 without changing anything?

 

On a somewhat related note, Secret Invasion did need to reshoot some scenes to avoid parallels to the Russia/Ukraine stuff

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/secret-invasion-reshoot-russia-ukraine-war.html

1 hour ago, icm said:

I just got the X-Jet without minifigs from Bricks and Minifigs

Ironic 

Due to not having the money in 2014 that I have now, I bought the older X-Jet without Wolverine, Storm, Magneto or Sentinel from eBay, then spent the following years regretting my decisions as I couldn't find the figures for cheaper than £20 each, other than Magneto (still to this day don't own those versions of Wolvie & Storm, or the Sentinel)

[BrickDalton]

13 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

I don't think some people understand the issue here.

It's not whether they stand with Israel or Palestine — it's about whether they choose a stand at all. Being associated with an ongoing conflict is not something corporations seek.

Look how it ended for Spyglass with Scream VII — they fired a single actress after she made a post on Instagram accusing one side of the conflict of genocide, and the whole movie (and possibly franchise) has collapsed for years, if not much more than that.

Have you seen the comments about Sabra being in the movie even before the ongoing conflict has started? Just look here, I genuinely can't find a single positive comment:

So even if Disney makes a ridiculous decision of leaving her in the movie (which would backfire at them heavily), LEGO won't include her in the set.

Marvel has said the character will differ from it's comics origin. To say Marvel should remove an Israeli character completely, wouldn't that be choosing a side? 

The Scream franchise isn't anywhere as big as Marvel, and the fallout has yet to be seen. It's only been three months. That isn't the post that got Barerra fired either.

 

 

 

 

[Mandalorianknight]

3 hours ago, thebricksbear said:

It's already been mentioned that Sabra would be agnostic of the anti-palestine revelation storyline from the comics, so the only unanswered question is, 'what's the point of sabra if not to include that moment?' Obviously to be an Israeli and Jewish superhero that those viewers can relate to. Before anyone screams Ben Grimm, there are plenty of Jewish superheroes that don't represent the readers the way characters like Sabra (and Ms Marvel for example) do. In fact, Quicksilver's and Wanda's Jewishness were removed from their characters. 

Timing is unfortunate with the crisis in the middle east and everyone being sensitive to the mere mention of the word Israel, but there's absolutely no reason this character can't exist without a correlation to the war. I sincerely hope they keep this character and do something productive with her, despite my feelings about real world events. I also hope that this set is far enough along and close enough to release that it isn't impacted by the extremely negative conversations happening all over lego social media.

 

On another note, I was looking around at sets that had comparable figs and pieces and someone already posted the Black Panther set, but the Homecoming set is also similar and was amazing.Sadly, it was $40 on release, LOL

Exactly. Moon Knight is sometimes Jewish, but the show's interpretation (I think his dad wore a Yamaka or Kippah at one point in the flashback) is a far cry from, say, the amount of focus Ms Marvel places on her religion and culture. (Or daredevil, but that was a different studio- I don't expect Born Again will have anywhere near the same focus on his Christianity, despite the name). (Or again, Red Guardian. A SOVIET who was patriotic for the soviet union, which is objectively one of the worst governments of all time by sheer numbers of innocents killed.)

2 hours ago, Battlinpanther said:

On the subject of the kit itself, are we expecting a reused Hulk body mold for Red Hulk? I haven’t kept up with any of the recent Lego Hulk releases.

My guess is it'll be the avengers hulk but in red. Same mold, angry facial expression.

1 hour ago, NXS7 said:

On a somewhat related note, Secret Invasion did need to reshoot some scenes to avoid parallels to the Russia/Ukraine stuff

However, it still directly contained a plotline in which the enemy's goal was to have russia and america fight eachother. Not a parrelel like Shield and the Red Room, a direct conflict between the Russian and American governments. The President of the United States was being encouraged to fire nukes at Russia by skrull Rhodey. Marvel fairly frequently includes politics or controversial real-world events, and not always through parallels like the Mandarin. It is not in any way logically inconsistent for them to include a character who's a patriot for a country that happens to currently be involved in a war in real life.

1 hour ago, NXS7 said:

I hope Rulk's design in the film is close to the old figure, and not like his recent look in the comics where he retains Ross' grey hair and moustache

I assume he'll not have the mustache if for no other reason than Harrison Ford doesn't seem to care about the amount of facial hair the character he's portraying is supposed to have.

[thebricksbear]

3 hours ago, Battlinpanther said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the code name Sabra also doesn’t get used (though the movies are already back and forth on whether or not code names get used). They’ll probably just call her Ruth.

This is all but confirmed by the actress and now the lego set leaks I believe.

3 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Text block

Yes, most comic readers know Wanda and Pietro have been retconned several times and I mentioned them with Ben Grimm because in the early 90s, when Marvel spiked in popularity, they were prominent. Regardless, you seem to be agreeing with me that "comic book heritages" can be pretty flexible and are also an opportunity for marginalized people.

Genuine question: how many Jewish (or even middle-eastern)  themed references/pieces/prints are there in Lego? I cant think of any because I follow SW and Marvel mostly but are there CMF or Aventure pieces from back in the day?