How is this not a thing? [Castle Battle Pack]

[SirBlake]

With the lean toward castle the last couple of years, what reason could TLG have to not release something like Benny’s Space Squad?

They must have taken note when last year’s Black Falcons got raided on Bricks and Pieces. It seems like a 4 pack (2 new lion knights/1 black falcon/1 forestman) would print money. Throw in an archery target and small treasure chest cart for buildable elements and charge $12ish for it.

I can’t think of a reason it wouldn’t sell like crazy. Seems like an easy decision. 

[Rattlebricks]

Agree, but soon  you'd see some posts that pointing TLG sales stats that claimed Castle unpopular among 5 year old today.

[SirBlake]

9 hours ago, Rattlebricks said:

Agree, but soon  you'd see some posts that pointing TLG sales stats that claimed Castle unpopular among 5 year old today.

Hah! Too true. 

[TeriXeri]

The way LEGO did Benny's would be the ideal way (€10 boxed set).

Nexo Knight did have 4 Minifig packs as well , first with 4 figs, later with 3 each. (LEGO Exclusive old style blister pack)

The newer style figure blister packs still exist as well (City has 40526 for example), also Exclusive, and now reduced to 3 figures.

Star Wars still has €15 Blister packs (3 figures) €20 and €30 Battle packs with 4 figures.

A smaller 3-in-1 Castle themed set could work as well but that theme isn't likely to get a horse.

Xtra theme seems to have retired, so a Castle related accesoire pack seems unlikely, unless LEGO City Mission sets expand to themes like Pirates/Castle 

Overall, Small Castle sets have not really existed , the last ones were 2014 for minifigs and 70401: Gold Getaway for a €20 set with a horse in 2013.

2011 had it even better, 7949: Prison Carriage Rescue 3 figures and a horse for €10, would probably be €15-20 in today's.

Still, even in 2022, Harry Potter has 76400: Hogwarts Carriage and Thestrals with 2 figures and a "horse" for €20 so it can still exist even within licensed.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by TeriXeri

[brimbolet]

17 hours ago, SirBlake said:

I can’t think of a reason it wouldn’t sell like crazy. Seems like an easy decision. 

I'm afraid that at present Lego makes indeed more money through various B&P orders. Benny's Space Squad was one of dozen sets related to the Lego Movie, City has now some TV series running and Lego tries desperately to reach more children through various mass media. Even during carnival superheroes or policemen costumes are more popular than knights or pirates.

That's why I'm so counting for a successful LOTR Amazon series, perhaps we'll get some great castle related battle packs then.

Edited May 29, 2022 by brimbolet

[TeriXeri]

2013, Lone Ranger was long retired when I got back to LEGO but it was an example of one of the last theme big on "Minifig"  horses (many minidoll/minecraft horses later), beside the 2013 Castle line

79108: Stagecoach Escape had 3 horses, 5 figs for $30 / £30 (but giga overpriced in Euro/sweden and some countries at €43-65)

 

79106: Cavalry Builder Set from the same set line was more of a Battle pack however, 1 horse, 4 figs, €15

17 minutes ago, brimbolet said:

That's why I'm so counting for a successful LOTR Amazon series, perhaps we'll get some great castle related battle packs then.

I agree, I'm normally not one to collect Licensed themes, but horses and Castle figures became super rare, especially in massable small sets.

Currently the Tan , and Dark Orange horses are available in €30 sets, and were like €10+ on Pick a Brick for a while, still overpriced mainly to get a horse.

Especially the City horse transport set is Exclusive here, so discounts won't happen.

Edited May 29, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Sir Dano]

It's not a thing because TLG refuses to give us another proper Castle theme.

[TeriXeri]

I don't like saything this, but LEGO is clearly doing a GWP strategy to hype up the Castle announcement at LEGO Con a few days later, at least for the majority of LEGO fans that don't actively follow media sites all the time. If the GWP would be sold out in 1-2 days and miss the 18th june LEGO Con that'd be a PR mishap though. 

 

A remake of 6103: Castle Mini Figures would fit so well with the current times of available sets / GWP,  and the 90th anniversary set likely has such figs (in production) too.

Like it has Falcons, a Crusader, Forestmen and a farmer.

A minifig pack could even be delayed a few months (nexo minifig packs came out 4-5 months after the sets of the seasons)

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by TeriXeri

[BrickJagger]

7 minutes ago, Sir Dano said:

It's not a thing because TLG refuses to give us another proper Castle theme.

They seem to have tacitly admitted that Castle sets are popular at least, but for some reason every set they're making is prohibitively expensive. Since the current "revival," including the Viking ship, every set has been at least $100. I think it's pretty unfair, since most kids, and even your average adult, simply can't afford to spend like that.

Lego claiming that kids don't like Castle would be a self-fulfilling prophecy, if not for the fact that the kids can't buy the sets. Make a $10 battle pack and prove it, then.

[brimbolet]

51 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

79108: Stagecoach Escape had 3 horses, 5 figs for $30 / £30 (but giga overpriced in Euro/sweden and some countries at €43-65)

79106: Cavalry Builder Set from the same set line was more of a Battle pack however, 1 horse, 4 figs, €15

Those were great sets, the only ones with new black/white horses until now I believe. Unfortunately I was still in my dark ages back then.

[TeriXeri]

45 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

Lego claiming that kids don't like Castle would be a self-fulfilling prophecy, if not for the fact that the kids can't buy the sets. Make a $10 battle pack and prove it, then.

100% agree here, space has been a "theme" with a lot of coverage, especially after a soft-revival of in-house fantasy space with LEGO Movie 2 in 2019, now there have been multiple sets across themes, 2 waves of City, various 3-in-1, Friends, Monkie Kid etc. 

Pirates had the 2 ships, so 2020/2021 was strong for sure, since then Barracuda Bay has retired (but LEGO might pull a Saturn V relaunch on it by surprise ? ? )

2021 was a soft revival of Castle with IDEAS Blacksmith + 3 in 1 Castle.

2022 will have a big Classic Space Ship, and 2 Classic Castle sets (1 GWP)

Smaller/Medium sets are the main thing that's lacking for Castle/Pirates since.

Lifespan of 2015 Pirates sets was surprisingly short, under a year, but maybe the view has changed since 3-in-1 Ship is currently not on a retiring list for 2023 yet. 

Speaking of 2015, a Chess set could also be a big minifig booster pack.

Of course nothing can be directly compared to like 2009 with Space Police, Pirates and Castle waves at the same time (followed by licensed versions like LOTR/POTC/Lone Ranger), but I still think it's currently heading at a better direction again.

Edited May 29, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Rattlebricks]

4 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

They seem to have tacitly admitted that Castle sets are popular at least, but for some reason every set they're making is prohibitively expensive. Since the current "revival," including the Viking ship, every set has been at least $100. I think it's pretty unfair, since most kids, and even your average adult, simply can't afford to spend like that.

Lego claiming that kids don't like Castle would be a self-fulfilling prophecy, if not for the fact that the kids can't buy the sets. Make a $10 battle pack and prove it, then.

Perhaps they assume  majority of castle buyers would be a 30-50 year old   that could and willing to spend 3 digits whenever they put out a new castle set.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Rattlebricks

[SirBlake]

2 hours ago, Rattlebricks said:

Perhaps they assume  majority of castle buyers would be a 30-50 year old   that could and willing to spend 3 digits whenever they put out a new castle set.

 

Fair point. I certainly fit in that demo.

Thing is, if accessible minifigs like this were made available, a lot of us who threw 3 digits at recent offerings would buy multiples. Enough that I think there’s almost no way this sort of thing would warm shelves. 

[Rattlebricks]

2 hours ago, SirBlake said:

Fair point. I certainly fit in that demo.

Thing is, if accessible minifigs like this were made available, a lot of us who threw 3 digits at recent offerings would buy multiples. Enough that I think there’s almost no way this sort of thing would warm shelves. 

Yes, I dont  see a battle-pack becoming a pegwarmers, First of all,  even if they do come up with it, I dont think they'll produce it in overwhelming quantities like they produce a small SW or City sets. Secondly, TLG must have been aware of   diehard  Castle fans  especially the MOC'ers and  the army builders who'd be more than willing to snatch the entire shelf of the battle-pack.

[Triceron]

I feel like CMF has mostly replaced any intention for them to make Castle Battle Packs.  Almost every CMF main series has at least one Castle or Fantasy related figure in it, with the latest series having 3-4 Fantasy characters.  And people seem quite eager to collect multiples of characters.

I think there is a CMF Series rumored to be themed around the 90th anniversary releasing near the end of the year.  I can see those being very hot sellers if so.  Hoping to see even more Castle throwbacks there.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Triceron

[Poco Lypso]

the pab section has been updated. butblack falcons are not available... maybe because they will be in the new castle ?!?

yeah, battle packs would be amazing. its quite expensive to buy a blackfalcon with armor, sword and shield...

[SirBlake]

2 hours ago, Triceron said:

I feel like CMF has mostly replaced any intention for them to make Castle Battle Packs.  Almost every CMF main series has at least one Castle or Fantasy related figure in it, with the latest series having 3-4 Fantasy characters.  And people seem quite eager to collect multiples of characters.

I think there is a CMF Series rumored to be themed around the 90th anniversary releasing near the end of the year.  I can see those being very hot sellers if so.  Hoping to see even more Castle throwbacks there.

Another good point. CMF’s have definitely kept me going in the lean years. Certainly better than nothing, but a battle pack would be better. 

[Lyichir]

The thing about "battle packs" is that they tend to be attached to ongoing themes. I don't know for sure but I get the impression that they aren't huge profit sources on their own, and that their main advantage is as an "entry point" that gets buyers (especially kids) into a larger theme, so that they move onto bigger, more extravagant sets. If so, I'm not sure the business case is all that strong for releasing a more or less "standalone" battle pack (that would only complement high-priced 18+ Castle sets or the handful of Creator sets). In a worst-case scenario something like that could even depress the sales of larger sets, if people figured they'd rather get multiple copies of the smaller battle pack instead of (rather than in addition to) the really high-end sets.

Benny's Space Squad is kind of an outlier since while it's effectively a Classic Space set as far as the figures and builds are concerned, it was technically a Lego Movie 2 set and functioned as an entry-level set for that theme. For AFOLs, it was a huge deal even for Lego fans who were indifferent to the Lego Movie, but for kids it's hard to know if something like that would have sold as well without a recognizable and popular character like Benny for them to latch onto.

[SirBlake]

That all makes sense, and mirrors the kind of reasoning I’ve heard before, but for me (without whatever business data TLG has access to), I don’t see how it cancels out my previous points. With a $350 castle set coming out and two other $100+ sets currently available, those of us throwing hundos at Lego castle stuff would likely spend another hundred on battle packs. I myself would likely buy every one I saw. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by SirBlake

[BrickJagger]

36 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

The thing about "battle packs" is that they tend to be attached to ongoing themes. I don't know for sure but I get the impression that they aren't huge profit sources on their own, and that their main advantage is as an "entry point" that gets buyers (especially kids) into a larger theme, so that they move onto bigger, more extravagant sets. If so, I'm not sure the business case is all that strong for releasing a more or less "standalone" battle pack (that would only complement high-priced 18+ Castle sets or the handful of Creator sets). In a worst-case scenario something like that could even depress the sales of larger sets, if people figured they'd rather get multiple copies of the smaller battle pack instead of (rather than in addition to) the really high-end sets.

Benny's Space Squad is kind of an outlier since while it's effectively a Classic Space set as far as the figures and builds are concerned, it was technically a Lego Movie 2 set and functioned as an entry-level set for that theme. For AFOLs, it was a huge deal even for Lego fans who were indifferent to the Lego Movie, but for kids it's hard to know if something like that would have sold as well without a recognizable and popular character like Benny for them to latch onto.

But then there's the issue of the people who want Castle sets but won't shell out $350 for them. If you're Lego, would you rather they buy the battepacks (likely several), or nothing at all?

[SirBlake]

38 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

But then there's the issue of the people who want Castle sets but won't shell out $350 for them. If you're Lego, would you rather they buy the battepacks (likely several), or nothing at all?

Ooh, another good point, Jagger. 

[MAB]

I wonder if they are still going off data from ten years ago. I remember buying a couple of dozen of each of these two blister packs:

These were £10.99 RRP but were being sold to clear at £3.99 each in late 2014 / early 2015. Either people just didn't want them or they made too many blister packs compared to the demand for them.

They have of course shot up in value but that is probably because there has been no castle. Make similar packs again, and LEGO might think they will not sell well again.

Even better deals were to be had on the ultimate battle packs - with one king and queen, knights and an army for each side.

Again, these were clearanced in large numbers for about £25.

 

Presumably they also have sales data on how well battle / blister packs sell for Ninjago, Harry Potter, Minecraft and so on when they are out at the same time as the main theme. It may be that the BAM stands in stores affect their sales. These blister packs tend not to get sold with as much availability as regular sets, I typically only see them online and in-store at LEGO, hence sold at full RRP. In-store at LEGO they have competition from the BAM, as they are cheap and kids get to make their own designs.

 

10 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

But then there's the issue of the people who want Castle sets but won't shell out $350 for them. If you're Lego, would you rather they buy the battepacks (likely several), or nothing at all?

There is the issue of will people buy soldiers to go with a castle, if they have no castle.

 

[Triceron]

I still feel like if they do battle packs, the best way would probably keep them Lego Store and online exclusives.  I can't see there being a wide market for them outside of AFOLs like us, and even then it's a niche within a niche.

I am primarily a Forestmen/Black Knights -> Fright Knight era Castle fan.  It's not like Castle has been really under any unified branch; they've reinvented the concept time and time again over the years.  So if they do a Castle Battle Pack today, what would it be? Because the Kingdom+ era is completely off my radar, yet I'm sure there are people who would want more Kingdom sets brought back as well.  And I don't think it would be in Lego's interest to start pushing out battle packs of every faction; it's been long and hard enough to get a classic Castle and we had to wait for a major anniversary for it.

 I only ever had a handful of loose Crusaders in my old collection, and only doubled it recently through Bricklink/Marketplace purchases.  I'm totally getting the new big caste, but I'm not even sure if I'd go out of my way to get Battle Packs if they started releasing them, since Crusaders were never a big part of my original collections.  Having a big castle in the style of the old ones that I missed out on is what really appeals to me.  Battle packs though, not so much, because I was never really focused on building a massive Crusader army even though I had a few in my original collection.  I think as long as Lego provides an avenue to get more figures, like CMF, BAP or BAM, I think it would be fine.  I really don't think that kids are gravitating to this theme at all, even if it's getting quite a resurgence.  It's literally playing on nostalgia for AFOLs like us.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Triceron

[SirBlake]

17 minutes ago, Triceron said:

So if they do a Castle Battle Pack today, what would it be?

In the hypothetical that I’m suggesting, it would simply be more army builders from the upcoming 90th anniversary castle. I know better than to suggest new prints or parts for this. 
 

We’re getting 20 figs in this new set, which is a great number, but once you account for civilians and rivals, we’re left with 9 soldiers to guard it. Again, a pretty good number, but I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting 20 more lion soldiers to man the battlements of this beauty. More black falcons and forestmen would be a bonus. 

[Triceron]

I completely agree, having the option would always be better than not.

I just don't know if Lego has always released Battle Packs in the interest of selling to kids, while this is almost certainly an AFOL specific thing.  For Star Wars I totally get, since it has both AFOL and Kid appeal, but Castle battle packs would be very niche if they didn't bring out an entire kid-oriented Castle series to go with.

I do feel like BAM and B&P are our best alternatives.  I'm not sure if it's standard policy, but the Lego store employee told me that you could mix and match any accessories up to 15 pieces total for BAM, so I could technically get 15 'White Falcon' torsos or 7 torsos 7 legs and build up an army that way for a decent price.  Heads are super easy to get, and the rest would just be figuring hair or helmet options, which should be obtainable through B&P.