40516 Everyone Is Awesome

[2lazeetomakeaname]

5 minutes ago, Clone OPatra said:

Indeed it is. Those "secular symbols" are only "secular symbols" in Christian countries, and specifically denote the Christian holiday occuring at that time of the year. They are not universally secular, just secular within a Christian context.

Secular means not having to do with religion. The Easter Bunny has nothing to do with anyones religion(I mean, maybe someone worships the Easter Bunny, idk) meaning it is universally secular. Meaning it isn't "representing Christianity"

[Alexandrina]

1 minute ago, Vindicare said:

Please do...I’m all for conversation. Some people are harder to figure out than others. For whatever reason, some people just like to be hateful. That boils down to, I believe, a screen sitting between them & the other person(s). I’ve seen plenty of complaints, similar to what I have about it, is the...nature...of the message. It seems I make it too late to the really hateful comments online, but I can imagine. LEGO doesn’t do hot button topics like this. I recently saw a post on Instagram comparing this set as being “too political”(in a mocking sense) to the Indy set that had “Nazis.” I use quotations because as far as the set isn’t concerned they’re not Nazis, just generic soldiers. Because even putting a red band on an arm would be a lot to swallow for many people, despite its accuracy to the source. When you have a public forum such as this or social media, one should expect a number of views to hit a topic from all directions. 

I can I suppose see why someone might feel an inconsistency and have it rankle. That said, putting aside the fact that I'm naturally defensive on these issues anyway as they have deep personal significance and I've had my fair share of attacks for simply being who I am, I haven't seen many comments from people arguing against these sets that have really elucidated why they're opposed to it. (And I'm not aiming this particular remark at you).

For my mind, there's two things at play. First, there's a difference in what people see as being too political. Personally I think it's plain to see how LGBTQ+ representation isn't even in the same universe as Nazis, but there is a line in the sand that Lego won't cross, and I can fully respect that people might have different views on where that line is. But secondly, there's a difference between those who are opposed to the set because they see it as crossing the political line in the sand and those who are opposed to it specifically because it's an LGBTQ+ positive set. As you say, this is a public forum and better than a lot of what I've seen on Facebook/Reddit etc. These public forums naturally bring out all sorts of opposing viewpoints - including the unfortunately too-prevalent hate mobs. When this set's discussions have become a lightning rod for comments arguing that an entire demographic who are just living their lives are immoral, or that Lego is disgusting for daring to acknowledge their existence, anybody who has valid complaints should take the time to elaborate on those complaints rather than adding to the chorus of hate - even if their own comment isn't coming from a place of hate, it doesn't feel that way when it's part of a tide of identical comments.

6 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

These are the sorts of small gestures LEGO could make that would have an extremely positive impact for a lot of kids. And I don't think it's too extreme to hope for that sort of thing, considering how many books, comics, TV shows, and video games aimed at kids are already taking these sorts of strides.

I couldn't have put this better myself. Having been the kid who doesn't know that she's trans or even that trans people exist, it's a lonely and confusing world sometimes. Even the little things are a great way of saying "you're not alone".

And it's not just kids' media that's at the start of a shift for the better/more representative. I've spent the last eight years writing a book which happens to have a trans protagonist, and when I started out there was just about nothing on the market that I could use as a reference point for good representation - and at the time I wasn't secure enough in my own identity for my personal experience to be a solid starting point. Compare that to now, and while there's still a long way to go, representation is out there and can be found. It starts with the kids. Increased support and awareness - which sets like this will contribute towards - allow LGBTQ+ kids to feel better about themselves at a younger age, and also allow their peers to learn too/foster a supportive environment.

9 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Secular means not having to do with religion. The Easter Bunny has nothing to do with anyones religion(I mean, maybe someone worships the Easter Bunny, idk) meaning it is universally secular. Meaning it isn't "representing Christianity"

The Easter Bunny is indelibly tied to Easter. Easter is a profoundly Christian holiday - the very fact that it's celebrated in sets is a nod to the Christian heritage of Western countries, even if the sets themselves might not be explicitly religious in content.

[2lazeetomakeaname]

4 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

, but there is a line in the sand that Lego won't cross, and I can fully respect that people might have different views on where that line is. 

THIS. The reason I'm opposed to this set is not because its a pride set, every megablocking company these days does stuff for pride month. The reason i'm opposed is because this can easily be interpreted as a political statement (though a very basic one), and LEGO doesn't specify in their "rules" what they consider to be political. If they had said for years that they didn't consider it political, then I wouldn't have blinked seeing this set. But when they've cancelled 2 sets in the past year and given no statement other than "it doesn't fit our values", it frustrates me that they won't just say where the line is

[williejm]

1 minute ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

THIS. The reason I'm opposed to this set is not because its a pride set, every megablocking company these days does stuff for pride month. The reason i'm opposed is because this can easily be interpreted as a political statement (though a very basic one), and LEGO doesn't specify in their "rules" what they consider to be political. If they had said for years that they didn't consider it political, then I wouldn't have blinked seeing this set. But when they've cancelled 2 sets in the past year and given no statement other than "it doesn't fit our values", it frustrates me that they won't just say where the line is

 

The line can always move. 

[Clone OPatra]

5 minutes ago, Vindicare said:

Santa Clause is a classic. 

Yes, all of that is linked to Christmas, but what else is? Jesus. Just as there’s plenty of people who don’t celebrate Christmas in that fashion, there’s also plenty who do. The WV Cottage could’ve came with a nativity print or sticker as yard decor, but they don’t do that. I can guarantee if they made a set this Christmas with a Christian theme to it or some nod to it, there would be plenty of complaints. 

Typo! Great couple of films though (the third one not quite as much).

Look, I'm not saying LEGO doesn't stop at a particular line. They certainly do. But those things I mentioned are still tied to Christianity and most likely not welcome in the homes of other religious communities, even if the people of another religion consider themselves secular.

4 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Secular means not having to do with religion. The Easter Bunny has nothing to do with anyones religion(I mean, maybe someone worships the Easter Bunny, idk) meaning it is universally secular. Meaning it isn't "representing Christianity"

I can't keep repeating the same point so I'll drop it after this. It sounds like you're not reading my points anyway. Something universally secular could potentially be found in every community and country in the world. Coca-Cola for example, that's universal, and obviously secular. Advent and Santa and the Easter bunny are nowhere to be found within most non-Christian communities. They are absolutely tied to one particular religion despite having no religious significance themselves.

[Alexandrina]

1 minute ago, Clone OPatra said:

(the third one not quite as much).

It definitely had some bright sparks. I remember the council of seasonal characters being amusing, and enjoying the notion of pretending to the in-laws that this totally isn't the North Pole, no sirree!

[2lazeetomakeaname]

13 minutes ago, Clone OPatra said:

I can't keep repeating the same point so I'll drop it after this. It sounds like you're not reading my points anyway. Something universally secular could potentially be found in every community and country in the world. Coca-Cola for example, that's universal, and obviously secular. Advent and Santa and the Easter bunny are nowhere to be found within most non-Christian communities. They are absolutely tied to one particular religion despite having no religious significance themselves.

Yes, we agree on this! But they are not representing Christianity like a literal pride flag is representing...pride! The point that was originally being made by @Vindicare was that they wouldn't make an actual, Biblically based set or even just have a nativity in a WV set, because it would cause controversy. 

[Alexandrina]

2 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Yes, we agree on this! But they are not representing Christianity like a literal pride flag is representing...pride! The point that was originally being made by @Vindicare was that they wouldn't make an actual, Biblically based set or even just have a nativity in a WV set, because it would cause controversy. 

Other than the Nativity (and Jesus on the cross, which would be a patently unlikely set for the grimness of its content) are there any sufficiently iconic moments for them to turn into a set anyway? I ask as someone who has never read the bible, and whose only exposure is through the cultural hegemony in her home country - I'm not aware of any other iconic scenes.

[icm]

Maybe we could split that discussion into a different topic. There are many Bible stories that come to mind, but listing Bible stories would be getting pretty off-topic from discussing set 40516.

Edit - Mods, would you mind splitting this off into a separate Bible stories topic? Thanks.

Edited May 20, 2021 by icm

[2lazeetomakeaname]

3 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Other than the Nativity (and Jesus on the cross, which would be a patently unlikely set for the grimness of its content) are there any sufficiently iconic moments for them to turn into a set anyway? I ask as someone who has never read the bible, and whose only exposure is through the cultural hegemony in her home country - I'm not aware of any other iconic scenes.

Noahs Ark, Garden of Eden(with clothed Adam and Eve), David vs Goliath, Daniel in the lions den, The Resurrection of Christ, Moses and the burning bush

1 minute ago, icm said:

Maybe we could split that discussion into a different topic. There are many Bible stories that come to mind, but listing Bible stories would be getting pretty off-topic from discussing set 40516.

Edit - Mods, would you mind splitting this off into a separate Bible stories topic? Thanks.

YES! LEGO Bible! 

[Clone OPatra]

4 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Other than the Nativity (and Jesus on the cross, which would be a patently unlikely set for the grimness of its content) are there any sufficiently iconic moments for them to turn into a set anyway? I ask as someone who has never read the bible, and whose only exposure is through the cultural hegemony in her home country - I'm not aware of any other iconic scenes.

There are LOADS of iconic scenes throughout the Old and New Testaments, but obviously LEGO isn't going to make them.

11 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Yes, we agree on this! But they are not representing Christianity like a literal pride flag is representing...pride! The point that was originally being made by @Vindicare was that they wouldn't make an actual, Biblically based set or even just have a nativity in a WV set, because it would cause controversy. 

Ok gotcha, I hear what you're saying, and yes agreed this new set is more overt in its message. I just wanted to dispel the notion that they don't make anything at all tied to religion.

[Alexandrina]

Just now, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Noahs Ark, Garden of Eden(with clothed Adam and Eve), David vs Goliath, Daniel in the lions den, The Resurrection of Christ, Moses and the burning bush

Thanks for those!  Can't say I'm familiar with them (generally speaking, other than a few references I didn't realise were religious) but it's not my market so that's to be expected

[Clone OPatra]

Yes agreed with others that talking about Bible stories is way too far off topic. Someone feel free to start a new topic! (There aren't that many posts in here to move really).

But as one final aside, someone has done lots of the Bible in LEGO: https://thebrickbible.com/

Now, back to Everyone Is Awesome.

[2lazeetomakeaname]

2 minutes ago, Clone OPatra said:

Ok gotcha, I hear what you're saying, and yes agreed this new set is more overt in its message. I just wanted to dispel the notion that they don't make anything at all tied to religion.

I'm glad we could find some common ground.

Also, if anyone thinks I'm "homophobic", I am not, I simply feel that LEGO as a company is not being open enough with its consumers about what their policies are

1 minute ago, Clone OPatra said:

Yes agreed with others that talking about Bible stories is way too far off topic. Someone feel free to start a new topic! (There aren't that many posts in here to move really).

But as one final aside, someone has done lots of the Bible in LEGO: https://thebrickbible.com/

Now, back to Everyone Is Awesome.

Where would this topic go?

[icm]

@2lazeetomakeaname: I'm drafting a first post now.

[Alexandrina]

On an untapped note of discussion, the name of the set feels not in keeping with Lego's naming conventions. I can't put my finger on why, but does anyone have insight as to why the set is called Everyone is Awesome rather than a more boring and lego-esque Monofigures Rainbow or Bricks in Colour or something?? 

[icm]

It's a play on "Everything is Awesome," the hit song (for some definition of "hit") from the 2014 Lego Movie soundtrack.

[Alexandrina]

Just now, icm said:

It's a play on "Everything is Awesome," the hit song (for some definition of "hit") from the 2014 Lego Movie soundtrack.

Oh okay. Never seen it (for reasons which are way off-topic) but I guess that makes sense. 

[2lazeetomakeaname]

10 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

On an untapped note of discussion, the name of the set feels not in keeping with Lego's naming conventions. I can't put my finger on why, but does anyone have insight as to why the set is called Everyone is Awesome rather than a more boring and lego-esque Monofigures Rainbow or Bricks in Colour or something?? 

They could have named it like most sets and called it the ULTIMATE MEGA PRIDE HELICOPTER ATTACK BATTLE or something

[Lion King]

19 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

They could have named it like most sets and called it the ULTIMATE MEGA PRIDE HELICOPTER ATTACK BATTLE or something

It’s pretty wordy for a set name. But I like that one tho!

[Karalora]

10 hours ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

Probably because certain people who claim to support it have made it VERY political. I don't think it should be political either, but it is.

The LGBTQ community didn't start this fight. The only reason LGBTQ Pride exists, as a concept, is that so much time and effort throughout Western history has been expended on trying to make members of the community feel ashamed of themselves. And that's at the low end of the oppression scale, not even getting into the beatings, inequality under the law, and in some cases outright criminalization of these folks.

[Lion King]

35 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

On an untapped note of discussion, the name of the set feels not in keeping with Lego's naming conventions. I can't put my finger on why, but does anyone have insight as to why the set is called Everyone is Awesome rather than a more boring and lego-esque Monofigures Rainbow or Bricks in Colour or something?? 

This set name does remind me of “everything is Awesome song from the Lego Movie (2014). I have to be honest, I like that set nam tho! But only I can see LGBT+ and People of Colors in this set, where are minifigures with disabiliies. 

Yellow monochrome guide dog, please!

9 hours ago, williejm said:

I hear ya. Thought the same thing about ‘why not one in a wheelchair?’ Then I spiralled into ‘not all disabled people are wheelchair users; what about X Y, Z ..’ ;) ... then I remembered that there’s no reason all of these figures don’t have a disability as it is!

I think they have the balance right here. They could have gone with hairless monochrome figures for simplicity, but I think the range of hairpieces is a nice touch. I also think that the ‘correct’ way to include minifigs with disabilities is the way they *are* doing it, randomly across a range of sets. 

might still put the red wheelchair to use though ;)
 

 

Agreed! Or monochrome guide dog. :) 

Edited May 21, 2021 by DBlegonerd7

[Alexandrina]

2 minutes ago, Karalora said:

The LGBTQ community didn't start this fight. The only reason LGBTQ Pride exists, as a concept, is that so much time and effort throughout Western history has been expended on trying to make members of the community feel ashamed of themselves.

I wonder how many people, even nowadays, don't mention that they're LGBTQ online just to avoid the hate. I know I barely if at all mentioned that I'm trans on EB until recently - as a conscious decision - because I couldn't tell what sort of community it was, and once you reveal your identity you can't unreveal it. Fortunately this has turned out to be a great place - but the fact that it's even a point of consideration shows that there's still a way to go. 

[2lazeetomakeaname]

@CloneO Patra, can we start some sort of political thread in Community? This has gone way past talking about this set.

[Clone OPatra]

This discussion (besides the quick Bible/religion tangent in which I'm guilty of participating) is on topic for this set. It can stay here.

All in all I have been pleasantly surprised at the overall civility and hope that nobody ever feels unsafe on Eurobricks. Staff definitely want to ensure that it's a good place for everyone.