Seriously, how did this happen?

[TeriXeri]

51 minutes ago, Lord Insanity said:

The just coming to market Creator rover can be massively improved just by replacing that red strip with blue or gray.  It's a shame it doesn't use colored windows.  Trans-dark blue would be the best matching for its current color scheme but it would have been nice to finally get that main window in trans-yellow.  That would have looked real good too.  Lets hope the rumored 2021 Creator mech is a real set and has a much more useful color scheme.

I really do hope the upcoming Classic Transparent Bricks (11013) will have some nice parts and color options to MOC/Mod space themes with.

Including classic colors like Trans Yellow, Dark Blue, and perhaps some neons as well.

Some trans-yellow 1x2 and 1x4 bricks would be at the very least be a throwback to Classic Space.

Edited September 22, 2020 by TeriXeri

[astral brick]

5 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

... I mean we got some seriously cool space sets from both main Lego movies.

... Lets hope the rumored 2021 Creator mech is a real set and has a much more useful color scheme.

Do we even realise how bad the situation is for Space? We are craving a 49 usd/eur creator set, hoping that it will have some known colour scheme (very unlikely considering what happened with the Rover).

We should be happy about a spaceship released in 2014, not even a Ucs, a 100 usd model, hoping for another Benny's cameo in some new Lego movie in order to be entitled to another Space set (because, apparently, without a movie or a tv series customers aren't able to understand how to buy a polybag). I am forgetting the minifigures set and the Idea that miraculously passed the review in 2014. 

The situation for Space is surreal. 

[MAB]

19 minutes ago, astral brick said:

Do we even realise how bad the situation is for Space?

The situation for Space is surreal. 

Just think what has been available in the last two years.

 

Of course, none of this is really Space and it is Star Wars that is to blame for keeping proper LEGO Space of the shelves and none of the above non-Space sets would compete with proper LEGO Space.

[icm]

Hear, hear! I was going to make virtually that identical post myself.  Last year was an absolute bonanza for space sets.... As long as you don't hold yourself to an antiquated rigid standard that only "traditional" Space counts.  I think I've repeated that in like a dozen separate posts by now.

Speaking of which, you left off at least two TLM2 spaceships; the Rescue Rocket and the Rexplorer. Plus the Apollo 11 Lunar Lander. (Not to mention the great selection of --- ssshhh, quiet --- spaceships from a galaxy far far away!). And the flying machines from Ninjago and, before that, Nexo Knights and the Lego Batman movie that are, let's face it, functionally indistinguishable from spaceships.  And all the flying machines from Super Heroes that are also either spaceships with a capital S or nearly indistinguishable from spaceships.  I could go on, but I won't.

Edited September 22, 2020 by icm

[MAB]

3 minutes ago, icm said:

Hear, hear! I was going to make virtually that identical post myself.  Last year was an absolute bonanza for space sets.... As long as you don't hold yourself to an antiquated rigid standard that only "traditional" Space counts.  I think I've repeated that in like a dozen separate posts by now.

Speaking of which, you left off at least two TLM2 spaceships; the Rescue Rocket and the Rexplorer.

I had already put in the Rexcelsior so didn't put the Rexplorer and didn't include the Rescue Rocket as some would say it is not space. I almost added the TLM2 bus too (add a couple of wings and it looks like the other space ships) but of course left it off. I did forget the lunar lander and a few CMFs too. I also left off all the space ships in Super Heroes.

 

 

 

[icm]

Oh, and the two spaceships from the Overwatch line last year, let's not forget those! They may be nominally based on a video game, but the set designer took such great creative license that they're virtually original creations.  You even get an astronaut gorilla with those! (The astronaut gorilla being the part of the set that takes the least creative license with the source material, somehow.)

[Professor Thaum]

On 9/17/2020 at 2:03 PM, MAB said:

Alien Conquest, Galaxy Squad

Those were really bad ideas, nothing compare to the old space classic.

True lego lovers shouldn't even have a look to franchised sets. (read : fleshy figs)

NB : the scientifical attuned lego space sets are really great, thanks @MAB for the reminder

[TeriXeri]

Basicly most my Space sets have been from recent years only , 2016-now, and I agree the situation hasn't been all that terrible, it just hasn't been under a Space theme.

I don't even collect Licensed so leaving those out, but as others have pointed out, beside Nexo Knights being a big source of neon orange and some bright green in 2016-2018, 2019 been a fairly big Space year.

2017 3-in-1 shuttle wasn't terrible either, tbh more interesting then the microscale shuttle of 2019.

 

Now, one part I can be critical on, that many (but not all) recent space related sets have been fairly curved/rounded , so it's not really been Classic / 80s / 90s in style, even Space Police III looks very different to me.

 

(Classic) Pirates were lacking more then Space in recent years imo (at least until 2020).

 And right now Castle is probably the lesser represented of all 3 classic subjects, but also got some fantasy infusions via Ninjago/Hidden Side.

 

 

2 hours ago, Professor Thaum said:

Those were really bad ideas, nothing compare to the old space classic.

True lego lovers shouldn't even have a look to franchised sets. (read : fleshy figs)

Agree on both, I don't like the more rounded space theme designs that much, especially not galaxy squad. 

I loved Insectoids and UFO (especially the smaller sets) and still like most of them more then the 2013 sets  (even while the 2013 sets where during a no-lego period).

Maybe part is nostalgia, but overall, the Insectoids/UFO figures were brilliant for their time, and considering the late 90s being a not so amazing LEGO period in themes like Town(Jr)

Also, I agree on the licensed sets, I don't collect them, but I still can see great parts potential in Star Wars (sets like TIE Dagger), or Batwing for Space Mocs, but licensed should not be the must-go to for Space/Castle/Pirates.

 

Parts like angled plates still are in many non-licensed sets, often used as roofs or sails (Pirate Ship , Haunted House , Elf Clubhouse etc), just actual airplanes themselves tend to use pretty prefab designs, meh.

 

I still plan to make some more Classic/80s/90s inspired (Nexo) Spaceship MOC at some point but I'd have to take apart my sets first 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by TeriXeri

[JintaiZ]

@MAB - I'd only count the 2 Classic Space sets from the LEGO Movie. Even so, TLG has released a ton of Space sets!

[MAB]

5 hours ago, Professor Thaum said:

Those were really bad ideas, nothing compare to the old space classic.

True lego lovers shouldn't even have a look to franchised sets. (read : fleshy figs)

NB : the scientifical attuned lego space sets are really great, thanks @MAB for the reminder

And isn't that just the problem there. They made two in-house Space themes relatively recently and Classic Space fans don't like them. There is no pleasing some Classic Space fans unless they re-release Classic Space as it was. 

And now you have ruled out Neo-Classic Space too, as they are based on fleshies so obviously designed by people that aren't true LEGO fans. I disagree on your use of the word true. People can buy licensed LEGO sets and still be LEGO lovers. Just because someone likes fleshie rather than yellow skin figures doesn't mean they are not true fans. 

[astral brick]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

Of course, none of this is really Space

Exactly (kind of). Moreover I think you are missing the meaning of this thread

8 hours ago, MAB said:

and it is Star Wars that is to blame for keeping proper LEGO Space of the shelves

Your sarcasm confirms the aforementioned suspicion.

8 hours ago, icm said:

Hear, hear! I was going to make virtually that identical post myself.  Last year was an absolute bonanza for space sets....

Rotfl!

8 hours ago, icm said:

As long as you don't hold yourself to an antiquated rigid standard that only "traditional" Space counts.

Ah ok, I believe you were joking.

[icm]

Nope, totally serious.  @MAB knows exactly what the meaning of this thread is, and so do I.  When you follow these forums for long enough, you'll see this exact same thread crop up time and time again with a different title and a different OP, but it's the same thread every time.  If you look at my Flickr page, you'll see that practically the only thing I ever (digitally) build is Classic Space, so I really do sympathize with you and other people who just want a traditional Space set one of these days, dangit.  And I do concur that there hasn't been a traditional Space line since 2013.  That doesn't mean I don't get tired of people saying it's "outrageous" that there isn't a D2C Classic Space set out right now, or a traditional Space line, and then dishing on the many great options there are right now.  Have you gone through the old thread I linked and read it?  Every single thing you say except the specific details about this years's MBS Mos Eisley Cantina has been repeated about a dozen times in that thread.

[astral brick]

4 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Basicly most my Space sets have been from recent years only , 2016-now, and I agree the situation hasn't been all that terrible,

Ok, I guess there is no problem then

4 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

it just hasn't been under a Space theme.

And lacking known colour schemes, ie not Space.

 

[icm]

Just now, astral brick said:

And lacking known colour schemes, ie not Space.

Please explain why a Lego spaceship must mirror one of the color schemes used between 1978 and 1998 in order to count as Space.

[danth]

2 minutes ago, icm said:

Please explain why a Lego spaceship must mirror one of the color schemes used between 1978 and 1998 in order to count as Space.

Personally I don't require any specific color schemes, but I will say that, every Lego Space theme that was ever made, other than Galaxy Squad and Alien Invasion (which is arguably not even a Space theme), had colored windscreens.

Colored windscreens were, for most of Lego history, the first thing you saw in a Lego set that signified you weren't looking at some conventional earth vehicle, but instead something out of this world. They're what made a space base a space base and not an airport. They made a space rover a space rover and not an earth truck. 

Obviously you don't need colored windscreens to achieve this but it sure helps and it always looks way cooler. I mean, it's why Nexo Knights used only colored windscreens.

[astral brick]

2 minutes ago, icm said:

Nope, totally serious.  @MAB knows exactly what the meaning of this thread is, and so do I.

Do you realise that there is a serious issues of disparity that, aside of being disrespectful towards their own history, is not very smart from a business point of view?

2 minutes ago, icm said:

  When you follow these forums for long enough, you'll see this exact same thread crop up time and time again with a different title and a different OP, but it's the same thread every time.

If it is periodical, then there is an issue, don't you think?

2 minutes ago, icm said:

  If you look at my Flickr page, you'll see that practically the only thing I ever (digitally) build is Classic Space, so I really do sympathize with you and other people who just want a traditional Space set one of these days, dangit.  And I do concur that there hasn't been a traditional Space line since 2013.  That doesn't mean I don't get tired of people saying it's "outrageous" that there isn't a D2C Classic Space set out right now, or a traditional Space line, and then dishing on the many great options there are right now.

Really? Anyway I am not going to try to convince you if you don't even see the problem.

2 minutes ago, icm said:

  Have you gone through the old thread I linked and read it?

Actually I posted on it.

[danth]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

Just think what has been available in the last two years. 

You realize you're in the Sci-Fi forum right?

Most of those are literally in the City theme. They're clearly not Sci-Fi, but NASA-inspired. Heck, the rover set is even set on Earth. It should have been named Rover Test Drive.

Nobody in here is arguing that we don't have enough NASA sets.

[astral brick]

26 minutes ago, icm said:

Please explain why a Lego spaceship must mirror one of the color schemes used between 1978 and 1998 in order to count as Space.

Don't you think that the Rover would have sold much more if they had used a known colour scheme?

[danth]

4 minutes ago, astral brick said:

If it is periodical, then there is an issue, don't you think?

No, no, if something comes up all the time, and everyone is complaining about it, it proves that everything is actually perfect!

[astral brick]

2 minutes ago, danth said:

You realize you're in the Sci-Fi forum right?

Judging by some replies I begin to have doubts about it :-)

2 minutes ago, danth said:

Most of those are literally in the City theme. They're clearly not Sci-Fi, but NASA-inspired.

So true!

2 minutes ago, danth said:

Heck, the rover set is even set on Earth. It should have been named Rover Test Drive.

Lol!

Just now, danth said:

No, no, if something comes up all the time, and everyone is complaining about it, it proves that everything is actually perfect!

Jokes aside, some replies of this thread are incomprehensible.

[icm]

Alright, I'm out of this.  Time to get back to work, stop wasting time on Internet forums.  I'll just say this: I consider myself as passionate about Lego as anyone else on this forum (and goodness knows I spend too much money on it), but I just can't get into nerd rage, outrage, entitlement over whether your favorite toy company does or does not sell a $100 toy in your favorite color scheme.  Like, use different language.  Not outrage, not entitlement, just disappointment and wishing this year's product line were a little different.  Not trash-talking what there is.  But obviously I'm not one to lecture on taking Lego too seriously, because here I am engaging in this sort of conversation instead of doing my job at work. Cheers, everyone.  Hip hip hooray for the next Space line and the next Classic Space tribute set, whenever they come!

Edited September 22, 2020 by icm

[JintaiZ]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

And isn't that just the problem there. They made two in-house Space themes relatively recently and Classic Space fans don't like them. There is no pleasing some Classic Space fans unless they re-release Classic Space as it was. 

And now you have ruled out Neo-Classic Space too, as they are based on fleshies so obviously designed by people that aren't true LEGO fans. I disagree on your use of the word true. People can buy licensed LEGO sets and still be LEGO lovers. Just because someone likes fleshie rather than yellow skin figures doesn't mean they are not true fans. 

Don't know how well it's going to sell. The price of it is equal to $112 nowadays.

[danth]

10 minutes ago, icm said:

Alright, I'm out of this.  Time to get back to work, stop wasting time on Internet forums.  I'll just say this: I consider myself as passionate about Lego as anyone else on this forum (and goodness knows I spend too much money on it), but I just can't get into nerd rage, outrage, entitlement over whether your favorite toy company does or does not sell a $100 toy in your favorite color scheme.  Like, use different language.  Not outrage, not entitlement, just disappointment and wishing this year's product line were a little different.  Not trash-talking what there is.  But obviously I'm not one to lecture on taking Lego too seriously, because here I am engaging in this sort of conversation instead of doing my job at work. Cheers, everyone.  Hip hip hooray for the next Space line and the next Classic Space tribute set, whenever they come!

As usual, it's the people trying to deny the problem who get the most outraged, so much so that they have to exit the conversation. Maybe you feel too entitled to having your opinions go unchallenged? This whole thread seems pretty civil to me, no outrage, just maybe some sarcasm when deserved.

But yeah, god forbid that people in the Sci-Fi Forum want more Sci-Fi sets.

 

[MAB]

45 minutes ago, danth said:

You realize you're in the Sci-Fi forum right?

Most of those are literally in the City theme. They're clearly not Sci-Fi, but NASA-inspired. Heck, the rover set is even set on Earth. It should have been named Rover Test Drive.

Nobody in here is arguing that we don't have enough NASA sets.

But they are arguing that it is Star Wars that is stopping (sci fi) in-house space themes from happening, even though LEGO has other in-house space themes on the shelves. I reckon the City space is more of a competing theme problem than Star Wars is, being a non-licensed theme. Parents or kids that don't want Star Wars would have to choose between two competing in-house space themes. Yet some Classic Space fans deny that and will only blame Star Wars.

[pombe]

The following have been my observations.

But I'll start with this premise:
The masses don't want new classic space sets.

Also, I want to state that I am not promoting my LEGO Ideas submission.  I've given up on it completely, removed it from my signature, and have stopped promoting it entirely.  However, I do want to talk about what I learned from promoting it.

I submitted my classic space related project at about the same time that Peter Reid's Galaxy Explorer redux ran out of time.  That should have been my first clue.  This is a MOC that LEGO had displayed for a year in their masterpiece gallery in the LEGO House.  It failed to reach even 3,000 supporters out of the 10,000 required to reach the review stage.

Undeterred, I continued, promoting my project across several social media outlets (Reddit, Pinterest, Facebook, Flickr, etc.) targeting groups that I thought would have an interest in my project, including groups specifically dedicated to fans of classic space.  And the support I received was underwhelming.  I was surprised.  These were people who proclaimed that they loved classic space.  Why wouldn't they support a project that could potentially give them a new classic space set?  In fact, I got more support from fans of Unikitty! and Zoids than I did from fans of classic space.

I admit that the possibility exists that they didn't want to support MY project and not classic space projects in general, but I'll set that argument aside to save my feelings.

Now that I had subscribed to several classic space Facebook groups, I noticed something in my news feed.  Nearly all the posts were haul posts showing off their vintage classic space collection or vintage classic space sets that they just bought.  There were very few MOC posts.  All I saw were whole collections or purchases of classic space sets, M-Tron, Blacktron, etc..  These were hundreds, if not thousands, of people who simply wanted to buy and collect the old sets.

Sure LEGO Ideas gave us classic space fans the Exo-Suit (by the previously mentioned Peter Reid), but the FB groups I saw didn't include it in their collections or haul posts.  Nor did they include Benny's Spaceship.  These relatively new sets didn't count as classic space to members of these groups (though they were happy to get Benny's Space Squad and the new upcoming orange spaceman).  That was a revelation.  There are many classic space related projects on the Ideas website and I now know why none of them stand a chance: the vast majority of classic space fans don't consider anything new classic space.

I don't know if the cutoff is Ice Planet, but there is a cutoff.  The fans of classic space will not buy anything after that (with the exception of more spacemen).

Add this to my observations that Galaxy Squad sold poorly and had to be discounted (at least where I was), the overall poor sales of TM2 sets, and the popularity of NASA related Ideas sets, it no longer strikes me as odd that LEGO has only put out near-future science fiction sets.

And with the current popularity of the Mandalorian, well...it doesn't look good for those of us who want new classic space sets.

And so here we are.  Maybe I'm wrong?  I hope I'm wrong.  Please tell me I'm wrong.  But my conclusions make sense based on what I've seen.